Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[RoyalDispenser]

No way. From my experience with it, it's way too matchup reliant to be an A+ rank mon, let alone an S-rank one. Half of the games you use it it'll be nothing but death fodder by virtue of the opponent's team being too prepared naturally for the set.

I don't know about that..

Mega latias can setup on a surprising ammount of mons.

Hide

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 151-182 (41.4 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 229-273 (62.9 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 192-228 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
^ Well can't setup.. but that bulk tho.

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 0 SpA Mega Latias Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 327-385 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If she has sub she can setup all over stall, if she has HP fighting bisharp and tyranitar can't be brought in, to say the least everything out there is nothing but a check depending on her set. Unaware clefable is the only nuisance to her but you should have a whole team to cover her.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

I can't see Mega Diancie for S-rank due to having problems Mega Evolving since base 50 speed in base form, but it seems very solid A+.

Mega Diancie is really good, but you're pretty much right. It does have a few flaws, such as downright mediocre HP, mediocre speed before Mega Evolving like you said, and...not that the typing itself is mediocre, but it's weak to steel, water, grass, and ground, some extremely common attacking types. I can't see it in S rank either.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Saying it can set up against a lot of things and then providing two calcs in which it is already set up is a bit silly imo, and doesn't really prove much.

Here's a list of mons from offence that it can't set up on from the S-A ranks.

huh

Mega Gallade (just uses SD and blows it away)
Greninja
Metagross
Latios
Azumarill
Bisharp
ZardX
Gardevoir
Fast Taunt heatran beats it 1v1, Defensive Tran Roars it out (not really offence for the latter but w/e)
Latias
Scizor (Mega or not)
Talonflame (Band 2HKOs, SD sets up)
Pinsir
Altaria
Diancie
Dragonite
Garchomp
Mega Gyarados
Heracross
Mamoswine
Medicham
Orb Diggersby
Kyube
Band/Scarf/Mega TTar
Gengar

You're also ignoring that it has to pick its poison - it can beat Bisharp with HP Fighting, true, but that means it can't carry sub/Dragon Pulse, meaning that it either does less work vs. Stall and/or is complete dead weight until it is set up.

I will concur, it does wonders against slower teams that aren't using Mega Eye/Phaser/Jirachi but it does have a problem vs. offence in which it can't get many free turns to get going, which is the kind of team it is just complete dead weight and essentially death fodder against. Getting a successful sweep with Mega Latias is difficult against well-built teams which have actually thought about it, and it requires a considerable amount of team support.

Also js it sets up on non-cm unaware clefable.

I'd like to point out that it actually beats unaware clefable if it has a few boosts up, as unaware does not ignore the boosts to stored power, which is why Baton passing to espeon is / was so good (idk how it is in oras).

 

[boltsandbombers]

yeah i realised that whilst calcing the other day, hence why i said it sets up on unaware clef (setting up would be pointless unless you can actually beat it)

Oh whoops, I thought you said it loses on unaware clefable. My bad lol.
But yeah, I really like CM mega latias. But often times its a bit matchup based reliant, as you said how it demolishes defensive teams but struggles versus offensive teams.

 

[AM]

The only way I can see M-Latias in A+ is for its non Stored Power sets such as 2 attacks, Roost, CM. The SP set is so linear and the existence of a single Dark Type makes that set a liability and basically matchup based so if we're going off of that set alone I really can't see how that pushes it up to A+. M-Diancie is definitely not S rank material lol. I can see an argument for A+ but even then I can't see it on the same boat as something such as M-Gardevoir. I would take this last opinion with a grain of salt though cause unlike Srn when I've use and faced it myself I personally found the majority of its sets underwhelming at times and matchup based more so than some godly thing some have made it out to be.

 

[Klefkivan]

I would like to nominate diggersby for A rank. Plain and simple this thing is a monster and it only got better in ORAS thanks to the return of move tutors. Diggersby now has ways to get around it's old counters, the set I find best is it's SD 3 attacks set allowing it to easily smash holes early game or sweep late game, but diggersby also has other good sets such as agility and choice scarf which allow it to out speed many threats it would normally lose to thanks to it's sub par speed tier. Over all diggersby is an extremely powerful mon that can easily punch holes in unprepared teams and not much can switch in it easily. (I would post calcs but on mobile atm) first post please try not to go too hard on me if you disagree.

 

[Dread Arceus]

Aight, let's tear this apart real fast.

Being able to completely wall a lot of the new Mega Pokemon, having little risk of being able to be put on any sort of team and having a pretty decent typing and great stats means it deserves S rank. Most of the time, it forced them to run Ice Punch and it can cost them valuable coverage.

The new mons you're referring to, that is to say, Megas Gallade, Lopunny, and Metagross would have reason to use Ice Punch even if Lando-T didn't exist, as it allows them to beat the ever-so-annoying Gliscor; it gives Gallade the ability to hit Lati@s if you elect not to run Knock Off; and Mega Lopunny doesn't exactly have 4MSS as it already has perfect neutral coverage in two hard hitting moves, Return and High Jump Kick, and the rest of the moveset is pretty much filler. Sometimes these new Megas don't even bother to run Ice Punch, as Landorus-T can be ridiculously easy to wear down, especially the Scarf set.

It's a very threateningly Double Dancer as well, meaning it CAN sweep through significant portions of the meta.

This just made me chuckle a bit. If your team is prepared for Terrakion, Garchomp, or any number of edgequake users, then you'll most likely be more than capable of dealing with double dancing Lando-T. It's too weak to sweep offense (even HO has middleweight mons like Garchomp that can take a hit and kill in return) and too easily walled to sweep stall (common mons like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Gliscor can wall it well enough) until late-game, and on top of that, it's usually used as a way to check an enemy's threats first, a wincon second, meaning it has a very hard time living long enough to sweep.

Its Scarf set also has the niche of checking S tier threads like Latios and Greninja.

This can be said of pretty much everything base 70 Speed or higher with a decent amount of offensive presence and coverage. Examples include threats like Scarf Florges, Scarf Honchkrow, and Scarf Chandelure, none of whom are exactly "top threats". (if you want more realistic options, Scarf Garchomp, Excadrill, and Kyurem-B all beat these two).

There's also more than 3 sets it can run, so I have no idea what you're talking about there.

Care to elaborate? We have: 1. Defensive utility pivot 2. Double Dancer 3. Choice Scarf
I guess you could slap a Choice Band on it, but I think I've seen that maybe once, in Gen 5.

The only remaining argument is that it can do all this by itself, but as you start trying to get it to do all this, you overstrain it and make it significantly less able to perform each individual task. (Scarf is light and easily worn down, Defensive utility loses offensive power, double dance is trying to survive till endgame while constantly taking hits).

All in all, this mon is not S rank worthy, and should drop back down to A+.

 

[DGpegasus]

I really wonder what Gliscor is still doing in A rank. He can run a variety of sets but most of them are outclassed by other pokemon. Gliscor isn't neccesarily bad but I don't see why he is in such a high rank. I might be missing something here because of my ignorance but this is the way I currently feel about him.

 

[Bluwing]

The only way I can see M-Latias in A+ is for its non Stored Power sets such as 2 attacks, Roost, CM. The SP set is so linear and the existence of a single Dark Type makes that set a liability and basically matchup based so if we're going off of that set alone I really can't see how that pushes it up to A+. M-Diancie is definitely not S rank material lol. I can see an argument for A+ but even then I can't see it on the same boat as something such as M-Gardevoir. I would take this last opinion with a grain of salt though cause unlike Srn when I've use and faced it myself I personally found the majority of its sets underwhelming at times and matchup based more so than some godly thing some have made it out to be.

i never said it was s rank for now or either did i rank it for that, but yes i said it has potential. and no diancie is not match-up based, it does what it needs and does it's job very well. it's incredibly versatile, it can be an offensive sr setter, cm + 3 atks, rp + 3atks or just flat out 4 atks which is incredibly hard to check. how diancie is underwhelming i can't see and ive never noticed when using it, it's extremely hard to switch into, has a nice speed tier and the ability to flat out crush stall and offensive teams. indeed diancie has it's cons as well, being weak to common offensive types like water, steel and ground, but it's by far underwhelming having amazing offensive stabs, great setup moves and overall amazing stats and coverage options. mega-diancie and gardevoir are only similar for one role only an thats stall breaking, other than that diancie has way more versatility and better overall bulk, better dual stabs and is way better against offense so saying that diancie ain't at the same level as m-gardevoir is complete bullcrap.

 

[Clone]

No need to be so hostile .-.

i never said it was s rank for now or either did i rank it for that,

Yeah you did at the end of your post.

but yes i said it has potential. and no diancie is not match-up based, it does what it needs and does it's job very well.

Diancie IS match up based because of her terrible speed before mega evolving. And that's her downfall. Base 50 is nothing special, which forces her to run protect or risk dying before being able to do anything. Against most offensive builds Diancie will have maybe one or two situations where she can mega evolve, neither of which are guaranteed to happen.

it's incredibly versatile, it can be an offensive sr setter, cm + 3 atks, rp + 3atks or just flat out 4 atks which is incredibly hard to check.

Offensive sr is bad. It's bad for the same reason sr mega Metagross is underwhelming (and even then Metagross is a better sr setter than Diancie). Running sr means you're giving up a coverage move, protect, or one of two boosting moves, all of which have a very high opportunity cost.

how diancie is underwhelming i can't see and ive never noticed when using it, it's extremely hard to switch into, has a nice speed tier and the ability to flat out crush stall and offensive teams.

It's underwhelming until she mega evolves, so I guess I'll give u that. However, most well built teams have a built in check to Diancie because the same things that check mega Gardevoir check her for the most part, with the only difference being Diamond storm. Combined with her difficulty in mega evolving against most offensive / balance teams, she's not as huge of a threat as you'd think.

Also only Rock Polish can "demolish" offense, and only CM can "demolish" stall. Running double dance leaves you walled by steel types, so your statement is incorrect.

indeed diancie has it's cons as well, being weak to common offensive types like water, steel and ground,

You forgot a terrible speed tier, weak to common priority moves in Aqua jet and bullet punch, and severely misleading bulk (Base 50 HP is terrible).

but it's by far underwhelming having amazing offensive stabs, great setup moves and overall amazing stats and coverage options.

You're still overestimating her. Her stabs are good but not great, and she's forced to run a mixed set, which takes away from one of her defenses and leaves one move hitting softer than it could be. And what coverage? The only notable moves are earth power and HP fire lmao.

mega-diancie and gardevoir are only similar for one role only an thats stall breaking, other than that diancie has way more versatility and better overall bulk,

Add being offensive fairy types that take a mega slot and require team support to fully fulfill their roles. Also Diancie in no way, shape, or form have better bulk than Gardevoir. She has a higher physical defense but that's it. Gardevoir has better special bulk. And even then Diancie is running hasty or naive so that argument is moot anyways.

And what versatility? You have all out offensive, or Rock Polish, with CM falling under the former. Gardevoir can go all out offensive with three attacks plus run taunt / will o / whatever because she has a free slot. They're on par in terms of versatility.

better dual stabs and is way better against offense so saying that diancie ain't at the same level as m-gardevoir is complete bullcrap.

The stabs argument is subjective! because guess what? Gardevoir can get past poison types! Because Psyshock! Diancie gets past fire types with Diamond storm, so again, they're on par.

Also, hyper voice is way harder to switch into so the only argument about being less prone to offense is speed, which is one trait out of many. And even then mega evolving is a thing and she can only really mega evolve if she's in against a Talonflame or something.

Not only do I say that mega Gardevoir is better, I say that Diancie should stay one sub rank below due to being much less consistent across the board, mainly due to being forced to go mixed, trouble mega evolving, and being even more susceptible to priority (with the in,y exception being brave bird). Diancie is fine in A and no that's not complete bull rap lmao.

 

[Kurona]

The only notable moves are earth power and HP fire lmao.

Agreeing with the rest of what you said; but she also gets Psyshock as coverage.

 

[Bluwing]

No need to be so hostile .-.


Yeah you did at the end of your post.


Diancie IS match up based because of her terrible speed before mega evolving. And that's her downfall. Base 50 is nothing special, which forces her to run protect or risk dying before being able to do anything. Against most offensive builds Diancie will have maybe one or two situations where she can mega evolve, neither of which are guaranteed to happen.


Offensive sr is bad. It's bad for the same reason sr mega Metagross is underwhelming (and even then Metagross is a better sr setter than Diancie). Running sr means you're giving up a coverage move, protect, or one of two boosting moves, all of which have a very high opportunity cost.


It's underwhelming until she mega evolves, so I guess I'll give u that. However, most well built teams have a built in check to Diancie because the same things that check mega Gardevoir check her for the most part, with the only difference being Diamond storm. Combined with her difficulty in mega evolving against most offensive / balance teams, she's not as huge of a threat as you'd think.

Also only Rock Polish can "demolish" offense, and only CM can "demolish" stall. Running double dance leaves you walled by steel types, so your statement is incorrect.


You forgot a terrible speed tier, weak to common priority moves in Aqua jet and bullet punch, and severely misleading bulk (Base 50 HP is terrible).


You're still overestimating her. Her stabs are good but not great, and she's forced to run a mixed set, which takes away from one of her defenses and leaves one move hitting softer than it could be. And what coverage? The only notable moves are earth power and HP fire lmao.


Add being offensive fairy types that take a mega slot and require team support to fully fulfill their roles. Also Diancie in no way, shape, or form have better bulk than Gardevoir. She has a higher physical defense but that's it. Gardevoir has better special bulk. And even then Diancie is running hasty or naive so that argument is moot anyways.

And what versatility? You have all out offensive, or Rock Polish, with CM falling under the former. Gardevoir can go all out offensive with three attacks plus run taunt / will o / whatever because she has a free slot. They're on par in terms of versatility.


The stabs argument is subjective! because guess what? Gardevoir can get past poison types! Because Psyshock! Diancie gets past fire types with Diamond storm, so again, they're on par.

Also, hyper voice is way harder to switch into so the only argument about being less prone to offense is speed, which is one trait out of many. And even then mega evolving is a thing and she can only really mega evolve if she's in against a Talonflame or something.

Not only do I say that mega Gardevoir is better, I say that Diancie should stay one sub rank below due to being much less consistent across the board, mainly due to being forced to go mixed, trouble mega evolving, and being even more susceptible to priority (with the in,y exception being brave bird). Diancie is fine in A and no that's not complete bull rap lmao.

i guess we have to agree to disagree then, yes maby i was a bit hostile, and maby some off my points were "missleading" but i won't make a huge discussion out off this as we both are seeing diancie from a different perspective, thanks for cleaning up. sorry if i came out hostile that wasn't what i wanted to be, ur arguments are also very good and i agree with a lot off them :]

 

[Kyuzeth]

Sceptile is A- Rank, whats your problem.

littlelucario means A rank, not A-. The hyphen may've been confusing, but that's no reason to be so damn rude. Calm down.

Anyway, gonna say here that I completely agree with Mega Lopunny for A+, since it has an excellent blend of offensive prowess (high-power STAB in HJK), safe Mega Evolution if Fake Out is run and support capability thanks to Healing Wish, allowing a teammate to clean up afterwards. It's kind of similar to Mega Manectric stat-wise, but has a bit more bulk (not counting the latter's Intimidate) and the luxury of unresisted STABs. Due to how effective Mega Lopunny is at what it does and its ability to be easily slapped onto a multitude of teams, A+ is ideal for it.

Just sparking some discussion on the topic of rabbits; what's the general opinion on Diggersby? Should it rise to A or stay in A-? I've read Diggersby is quite effective when used together with Mega Lopunny as some sort of dual-rabbit core that functions kinda like dual-Dragon would, with Mega Lopunny being the sweeper and Diggersby the wallbreaker. Diggersby has also gained a wider movepool in ORAS, noteworthy moves being Knock Off and the Elemental Punches, so that it can get its checks much more easily. Taking all this into account, Diggersby seems like A material to me.

Looking at the recent discussion, I think Mega Diancie can go either way. On the one hand, its 160/160/110 offenses are marvelous and it has just the right tools to make great use of them: Magic Bounce, powerful mixed STABs and a precise movepool. On the other hand, it struggles against Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor, the former of which is an especially dangerous and dominant Pokémon in current OU. As -Clone- stated, it's not really on par with Mega Gardevoir and some Pokémon in A+, but there's nuances in every rank. In the end, Mega Diancie can either stay or go up.

And to finish, Mega Latias should stay in A. Its Stored Power set, while effective, is just so fucking predictable and any Dark-type that's still vital can make it into a huge liability. Doesn't exactly go well with the dominant Dark-types in the tier being really effective at the moment, mainly Bisharp and Mega Sableye, Tyranitar to some extent. It's a great set when pulled off well and I know there's variations on it, but Mega Latias is way too predictable and way too easily turned into a liability that I can only think of A being the right rank for it.

Right, that's another batch outta the way. Kyuzeth out.

 

[theV8man]

littlelucario means A rank, not A-. The hyphen may've been confusing, but that's no reason to be so damn rude. Calm down.

Anyway, gonna say here that I completely agree with Mega Lopunny for A+, since it has an excellent blend of offensive prowess (high-power STAB in HJK), safe Mega Evolution if Fake Out is run and support capability thanks to Healing Wish, allowing a teammate to clean up afterwards. It's kind of similar to Mega Manectric stat-wise, but has a bit more bulk (not counting the latter's Intimidate) and the luxury of unresisted STABs. Due to how effective Mega Lopunny is at what it does and its ability to be easily slapped onto a multitude of teams, A+ is ideal for it.

Just sparking some discussion on the topic of rabbits; what's the general opinion on Diggersby? Should it rise to A or stay in A-? I've read Diggersby is quite effective when used together with Mega Lopunny as some sort of dual-rabbit core that functions kinda like dual-Dragon would, with Mega Lopunny being the sweeper and Diggersby the wallbreaker. Diggersby has also gained a wider movepool in ORAS, noteworthy moves being Knock Off and the Elemental Punches, so that it can get its checks much more easily. Taking all this into account, Diggersby seems like A material to me.

Looking at the recent discussion, I think Mega Diancie can go either way. On the one hand, its 160/160/110 offenses are marvelous and it has just the right tools to make great use of them: Magic Bounce, powerful mixed STABs and a precise movepool. On the other hand, it struggles against Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor, the former of which is an especially dangerous and dominant Pokémon in current OU. As -Clone- stated, it's not really on par with Mega Gardevoir and some Pokémon in A+, but there's nuances in every rank. In the end, Mega Diancie can either stay or go up.

And to finish, Mega Latias should stay in A. Its Stored Power set, while effective, is just so fucking predictable and any Dark-type that's still vital can make it into a huge liability. Doesn't exactly go well with the dominant Dark-types in the tier being really effective at the moment, mainly Bisharp and Mega Sableye, Tyranitar to some extent. It's a great set when pulled off well and I know there's variations on it, but Mega Latias is way too predictable and way too easily turned into a liability that I can only think of A being the right rank for it.

Right, that's another batch outta the way. Kyuzeth out.

Choice Band Diggersby is actually a great partner to Lopunny. With Wild Charge, it can threaten pretty much every wall that Lopunny can't break past. Lopunny can give it free switches with Encore or SubPass and overall they function great together. They also both offer priority. The problem is that they're very similar in terms of typing and that they both hate burns, so it's a core that needs support. Diggersby also got Knock Off, which is interesting. I think Diggersby is A rank material.

 

[alexwolf]

The main problem with this song is that Lando-T is not OP. Nor should it be S rank, and it's pretty laughable that it's actually there. People are all over its dick because it's easy to slap on a team, when it's nothing more than glue. It does not fulfill any of the requirements of being S rank. It does not present an ungodly amount of support, it doesn't "sweep or wall most of the metagame", and its 3 sets are all pretty over strained, with the exception of perhaps the old defensive Leftovers set. I also don't like that the thread owner changed the definitions of the ranks to his liking, when S is supposed to be something that can "sweep or wall a vast majority of the metagame, or provide such support that it can easily cause other Pokemon to do so with little cost" or something to that effect. Does anybody here actually believe Landorus-T is as dangerous as BW Keldeo, as diverse as BW Jirachi, or that it provides as much support as BW Tyranitar or Politoed? No, it's probably the least powerful S rank in history.
On that note, stop putting shit in S rank because of usage. That is not, nor has it ever been, what the viability thread is supposed to look at.

Viability of a Pokemon entails both its performance during the battle and how easy it is to fit on a team during the teambuilding stage. It has always been this way, even though many people only care about battle performance. Landorus-T is not in S rank because of it's battle performance, but due to how easy it is to fit on teams of all kinds, from offense to stall. Also, it's role as a scarfer is pretty unique, because it's the only scarfer that with U-turn and great power that can switch into so many stuff, meaning it can not only revenge kill but also soft check several threatening physical attackers. Even though Scarf Lando-T competes with other scarfers for a teamslot, it is a level above them because of the sheer utility it brings to the table, namely Intimidate, U-turn, and two useful immunities, allowing it to check many stuff and keep momentum. Scarf Lando-T does so much stuff for a team and hardly limits teambuilding in any way, outside of the fact that it's choice locked and can be taken advantage of after revenge killing something.

As for us ranking stuff based on usage, the only thing i can say is that we don't. If you can take my word for it, fine, if not, that's fine too.

I really wonder what Gliscor is still doing in A rank. He can run a variety of sets but most of them are outclassed by other pokemon. Gliscor isn't neccesarily bad but I don't see why he is in such a high rank. I might be missing something here because of my ignorance but this is the way I currently feel about him.

We are currently discussing what to do with Pokemon in A and A- ranks, so have some patience.

 

[DGpegasus]

We are currently discussing what to do with Pokemon in A and A- ranks, so have some patience.

I understand. To be completely honest, I was trying to start a small discussion about him. Gliscor has been hanging out in A rank for a long time but hasn't been discussed much (from what I've seen)

 

[TheTraininator]

I understand. To be completely honest, I was trying to start a small discussion about him. Gliscor has been hanging out in A rank for a long time but hasn't been discussed much (from what I've seen)

There was a discussion about Gliscor a few pages ago, I believe. Several people wanted him to drop to A- or B+. The reason we aren't still discussing it right now is no one really argued.

 

[Chaoswalker]

With Landorus T cock blocking nearly everything it can do, does anyone else feel that Garchomp is kind of doo doo right now? Every pokemon has checks and counters, but Landorus is on nearly every other team you encounter.

 

[firehusky]

With Landorus T cock blocking nearly everything it can do, does anyone else feel that Garchomp is kind of doo doo right now? Every pokemon has checks and counters, but Landorus is on nearly every other team you encounter.

No, garchomp is not doo doo. It's one of the best offensive SR setters along with mamoswine, it's a great suicide lead, that actually does stuff other than set up SR, taunt, and then explode. SD + Lum is really good, and it can run a bunch of sets, like SR + 3 attacks, sash lead, SD + lum, scarf, defensive, mixed, mega sand wallbreaker etc. Lando-t is a great pokemon, it can check lots of physical attackers, and garchomp just happens to be one of them. I think there was a discussion about garchomp a few pages ago, so you could try looking around for that.
Lando-t checks a bunch of mons, including garchomp but it doesn't necessarily mean it's (garchomp) bad or anything.

 

[Mur]

Other than the obvious nominations on mega sab and lop to go up to A+ I support mega sceptile staying in A- atm. While it's sub+3atks and mix sets can rip through offensive teams fairly easily I find the lack of damage really hurts it's ability against defensive teams(which are getting very common imo). This fact alone puts it at the level of Maero which is faster and has a deeper movepool which gives mega scept some competition for the mega slot. Not to mention the far superior mega lop which gives it even more competition for a slot. So for right now I say we leave Mega Sceptile in A- as it may show more potential later on in the meta to lessen the strain of opportunity cost upon it and possibly give it a more clear reason to warrant a rise.

 

[psVoltage]

.......k


I do believe Manaphy should go to A simply cause it breaks your average M-Sableye and M-Slowbro stall builds with ease and the only thing that realistically stops Manaphy on these teams or slows it down is Chansey, which is broken down by partners such as M-Gallade, M-Scizor, or any reliable stallbreaker to slow down recovery basically. As such Manaphy's ability to break heavy stall should be reflected in A rather than A-.

Yo Pursuit gross literally takes care of 99% of manaphy's checks no joke. That combo is so stupidly good, and I've passed my team around to a couple of members who all loved it. But yeah Manaphy is A at least just because stall has nothing for it at all, it just breaks everything down.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Yeah, I think I said this before but Diancie isn't S-rank material. She has some pretty big flaws that can be exploited - weak to Bullet Punch, so anything with it can come in and either kill her or force her out. As mentioned before, she also has a nasty weakness to Azumarill's Aqua Jet, and that pretty much forces her out as well. Basically, it's checked by a lot of relevant 'mon - Scarf Landorus-T can live a moonblast, should she have Rock Polish, and have a 50% chance to OHKO with Earthquake, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump does 75-88% with 0 investment but not a hindering nature, Greninja, one of the best mons in the tier, reliably checks any non-RP set...and then we have Mega Sceptile, Mega Swampert, Mega Scizor, and Mega Metagross, who all destroy it or force it out.

Diancie IS matchup based. I've played over 300 matches with her, and to do well she needs to take damage. Despite the fact that she cannot be (directly) burned (lava plume and burn chance attacking moves can, still), she's worn down quickly due to her absolutely terrible 50 HP. Talonflame's Brave Bird takes at least 35% out of her, meaning that it can finish her off in a pinch due to her lack of priority. And on the subject of her being versatile, what moves does she even have besides STAB that's worth talking about? Earth Power, yes, Calm Mind, yep, maybe Explosion, maybe Hidden Power Fire (which is kinda unreliable since if every Diancie starts carrying it, Air Balloon Heatran might be used more often so it can absorb HP fire and avoid earth power damage). Other than those, that's really it. Protect and Substitute...well, every viable mon gets them, and the only reason they're used (besides to punish switches in sub's case) is to give her a free turn so that bad 50 speed isn't played into factor on that crucial first turn.

 

[alexwolf]

Seeing as how CBB has been inactive for a long time, he has been replaced by AM. Congrats and welcome to the team AM!

 

[mertyville]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up the Mono Attacking Sets of Mega Latias, which is really reliant to team mates, like it is the only viable set.

The thing that makes Mega Latias A+ is that it is such an unique Calm Minder being able to find set up oppotunities even with its "bad typing".
- You can run a fast classic Calm Minder like in Generation 5 with max HP and max Speed
- A physical defensive Calm Minder
- A mix between the two
- An offensive Calm Minder (hits lighter than normal Latias/Latios but can set up easier and no Life Orb recoil)

Sure, Mono-STAB is walled by Dark Types or Fairy Types, but Dual STAB pseudo-mixed, Hidden Power + Psychic or 3 attack - roost are all possibilities you can go for and much easier to use and pretty effective.
I consider the Stored Power set without another Attacking move more of a high risk = high reward set. Definitivly effective and a punishing set, after using it myself, it is not what I think that pushes Mega Latias to the peak. But definitivly something people should be prepared for.

 

[theDSC]

I really wonder what Gliscor is still doing in A rank. He can run a variety of sets but most of them are outclassed by other pokemon. Gliscor isn't neccesarily bad but I don't see why he is in such a high rank. I might be missing something here because of my ignorance but this is the way I currently feel about him.

Gliscor has one thing over other defensive pokemon: taunt

This might not seem like much but it opens up many support options for it. It allows it to literally stallbreak slower defensive mons, prevent set up and defog, etc

And like you've mentioned, Gliscor can run many sets. It's unpredictable to and the fact that it can perform many roles can allow it to fill multiple niches. Outclassed isn't really the right word, as Gliscor has its own advantages in that department.

Not to mention it's good defensive stats and typing, excellent recovery still make it a good check to some attackers.

A rank seems fine imo