Battle Maison Discussion & Records

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
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Just finished breeding Timid Greninja and Jolly Darmanitan. What should I breed as the third Pokemon to get a quick 50 wins in Super Singles?
Garchomp, Cloyster, Mega Kangaskhan, Dragonite, Mega Salamence, and Mega Scizor come immediately to mind for pure quick hitters. For really long streaks, "good stuff" teams typically want at least one bulky poke that can switch into and set up on the things that threaten the sweepers (this is why Suicune is so amazing in singles), but for speed runs to 50, you can get by with all offense, all the time.

NoCheese Edit: Also, Darmanitan is probably best with an Adamant nature, as you'll outspeed most of what you need with a Choice Scarf. While Jolly Choice Band is an option, and hits like a truck, base 95 Speed, even with a positive nature, leaves you outsped by too much, in my opinion, particularly considering the mediocre defenses. Then again, for a quick run, it may work. But you'll have to be very aware of speed tiers.
 
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Hi everyone. Long time reader on this board but mostly this thread.

I've decided to take a swing at making it on the board with a team that I've been working on for super singles.

My big question for you guys is how important is Sucker punch on MegaKhan over something like crunch?
Sucker Punch is half the reason to bring Mega Kanga, honestly. Even 252+ Speed Kanga only hits 167 speed, which outruns a lot of the Maison but critically fails to outrun Latios 3 (threatens to OHKO with Draco Meteor), or Alakazam 3,4 (both threaten to OHKO with Focus Blast), all of which are beaten outright by Sucker Punch.

There's also Starmie, who can't OHKO without a critical hit, but still hits hard (and can potentially freeze Kanga) and only runs one set which isn't trumped by Sucker Punch.

Honestly, Alakzam 4 and Starmie 4 are both common enough in the Maison and enough of a pain to make a serious argument to run Sucker Punch just for those two.

Edit:
Garchomp, Cloyster, Mega Kangaskhan, Dragonite, Mega Salamence, and Mega Scizor come immediately to mind for pure quick hitters. For really long streaks, "good stuff" teams typically want at least one bulky poke that can switch into and set up on the things that threaten the sweepers (this is why Suicune is so amazing in singles), but for speed runs to 50, you can get by with all offense, all the time.

NoCheese Edit: Also, Darmanitan is probably best with an Adamant nature, as you'll outspeed most of what you need with a Choice Scarf. While Jolly Choice Band is an option, and hits like a truck, base 95 Speed, even with a positive nature, leaves you outsped by too much, in my opinion, particularly considering the mediocre defenses. Then again, for a quick run, it may work. But you'll have to be very aware of speed tiers.
I am firmly of the opinion that Darmanitan should never run anything but Life Orb or Choice Scarf. Flare Blitz achieves virtually no notable OHKOs with a Choice Band instead of a Life Orb, but the Orb lets you move from a Flare Blitz that just KO'd something to a U-Turn to get the hell away from the bulky water that just came in.

I don't remember bringing Darmanitan in during the Gauntlet all that much, but now that I'm in 100+ territory, there just isn't much running around that both outspeeds her and threatens her.

Just finished breeding Timid Greninja and Jolly Darmanitan. What should I breed as the third Pokemon to get a quick 50 wins in Super Singles?
With those two members, you're looking for a defensive pivot who checks the serious threats to your team. Personally, I would go with Mega Venusaur, as it resists the Grass, Electric, Fairy, and Fighting attacks that threaten Greninja as well as the Water attacks that threaten Darmanitan.
 
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NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Oh yea, been doing ORAS Super Doubles Maison for BP and got a good streak going and end of 246. Lost it to a really important turn where I needed to not be crit to win. I'll post about the exact team I used when I get a better streak with it but here's the battle video of my loss for proof and some details for now ZLXW-WWWW-WWWH-BPY5. If you're too lazy to click, the 4 mons were Mega Gardevoir/Blastoise/Zapdos/Scizor.

Getting close to passing the streak I had last week, but I'll post all the details of the team and run when I lose this one.
I've updated the leaderboard, but I'd love to hear your more detailed thoughts on this team when you're ready. Non-Mega Blastoise, in particular, is something I was a bit surprised to see, but with only one battle video to go by, where things did not work out well, it's hard to get a sense of the team's full potential.
 
Just finished breeding Timid Greninja and Jolly Darmanitan. What should I breed as the third Pokemon to get a quick 50 wins in Super Singles?
All of the Pokemon NoCheese mentioned are good, but I feel like the threat of Jolteon basically locks you into using Garchomp. The fact that Jolteon outspeeds and annihilates Greninja, while threatening paralysis (or just massive damage) against Darmanitan means you'll really want Garchomp to switch into it. That said, Garchomp should work nicely, what with Greninja's and Darmanitan's Ice-resistance (Darm's Fairy resistance doesn't hurt either). Chomp @ Lum Berry can also set up a quick Swords Dance on annoying opponents (like Toxic Stall Cresselia) if it has Sub. I think the biggest thing I'd be afraid of (besides, you know, Bright Powder and the like) is Timid Lati@s coming out after Greninja has fainted, but they'll only show up in battles 40-50 anyway.

Good luck!
 
Garchomp, Cloyster, Mega Kangaskhan, Dragonite, Mega Salamence, and Mega Scizor come immediately to mind for pure quick hitters. For really long streaks, "good stuff" teams typically want at least one bulky poke that can switch into and set up on the things that threaten the sweepers (this is why Suicune is so amazing in singles), but for speed runs to 50, you can get by with all offense, all the time.

NoCheese Edit: Also, Darmanitan is probably best with an Adamant nature, as you'll outspeed most of what you need with a Choice Scarf. While Jolly Choice Band is an option, and hits like a truck, base 95 Speed, even with a positive nature, leaves you outsped by too much, in my opinion, particularly considering the mediocre defenses. Then again, for a quick run, it may work. But you'll have to be very aware of speed tiers.
I've actually using Life Orb Darmanitan now to some extent. Lead with Darmanitan and usually a clean sweep with Flare Blitz/Rock Slide/Earthquake and U-Turn if I ever get into trouble.

Currently up to Battle 26 with my Darmanitan/Gardevoir/M-Metagross temporary team in order to farm up enough BP to get the Power Lens to train my Greninja (the last two are ingame pokes). Once I train Greninja I'll decide on the 3rd pokemon. Looking at either Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan or Venusaur (to complete that FWG core). And I need to breed Venusaur eventually.

EDIT: Extrasensory or Dark Pulse on Choice Specs Greninja?
 
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Hey, so I was able to clear 50 battles in the Super Doubles maison in ORAS and I wanted to share my team since I found it pretty effective for that small stretch / wanted to give people a team to try one of the new megas with


Salamence @ Salamencite
Intimidate
Modest
252 SpAtk / 252 Speed / 4 Def
-Hyper Voice
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower
-Protect


Cresselia @ Leftovers
Levitate
Calm
Don't actually remember the EVs, likely invested for overall max bulk
-Psyshock
-Icy Wind
-Helping Hand
-Light Screen


Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Rough Skin
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Protect


Heatran @ Sitrus Berry
Flash Fire
Timid
252 SpAtk / 252 Speed / 4 Def
-Heat Wave
-Earth Power
-Substitute
-Protect

The general strategy of the team was to lead off with Salamence and Cresselia. Salamence mega evolves and then starts firing off Helping Hand boosted Hyper Voices. If there's a weak Ice Beam user on the field, I'll usually protect Salamence the first turn and set up a Light Screen with Cresselia or switch into Heatran. If there are faster Dragon or Ice-types, I generally Icy Wind to slow them down. Garchomp fits in by merit of working wonders along side a Helping Hand Cresselia. Heatran patches up most of the teams weaknesses and also likes to fling around Helping Hand Heatwaves.

Intimidate with Light Screen is wonderful and makes Salamence and Cresselia hard to touch for the opponent. At the same time, Modest Helping Hand Hyper Voices are very powerful and spammable; I've even worn down Blisseys with it.

The only real uncomfortable parts were going against Water / Ice Types that were somewhat bulky like Walrein. A Rotom-W over Garchomp might be a good choice, but I wasn't keen on stomaching Hydro Pump's accuracy.
 
New Super Singles Streak Win # 1400! Battle Video PD9G-WWWW-WWWH-YBKU Thank you.

This is what people are interested in! We want to see a long, detailed write-up of the team like everyone else has done with their streaks explaining how you deal with those specific threats. All you've done so far is post a couple of videos and been super defensive over people questioning your methods. I would recommend sitting down on a computer, reading through a few of the best streaks to see what they talk about and then write up your own. At the moment the link in the OP that goes to your streak is simply a battle video you posted with an explanation that NoCheese wrote on your behalf. If you want to earn some respect around here you need to be a little more civil / mature than just jumping in and being all 'HEY I GOT 1,000+ WINS WITH A SICK TEAM OK SEE YA'.

Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh, I'm just trying to help you out... So yeah, write up where you got the idea for the team, the teambuilding process (why you chose Cloyster over other set up sweepers, why you chose Garchomp as a backup, how you came to the EV spread etc.), what threats you've accounted for and how you deal with them and all that stuff. Bonus points for making the post look nice with some simple formatting so it's not all one big block of text.

I look forward to seeing how you go with it
Hi,Thanks for your insite. I think You have got it wrong. I never came here on no Rah Rah ish. I explained my situation to No Cheese. Asked Him if I could post it, and explained that I was Posting from an I-Pod. Since Everybody is thinking I'm The bad guy I guess I should let you know I am not able at this time to get to a computer.With out putting any more of My business out there I'll leave it at that.No Cheese got most of it covered besides a few threats Like Shuckle with wrap,Mismagius,Lapras,and A few pokes you need to switch out on or it's probably going to end your streak. Anyway I will do my best to answer any questions anybody has. Also I Never said anything to anybody who was not speaking about me or the team I use.Thanks again for your Time.

No, that's a Rhyperior using Protect once on you and letting you use Entrainment on turn 3. I'm talking about when it (or Tentacruel, or Klinklang, or Floatzel, or any of the other 30+ Pokemon with Protect or Detect) uses Protect two or more times and doesn't let Durant use Entrainment. It would have been one thing if your response had been "yeah, it can definitely screw me over, but luckily on the rare occasions it happens the opponent's team was weak to Cloyster or Garchomp and it swept at +2," but given the outlandishness of your claims (that this possibility has somehow never even entered your mind when it's bound to happen at least once against a Protect lead in the span of 100, let alone 1,000 battles), I'm now more inclined to believe you're just backing up your save state.

Just looking at a page of notes I dug up while using a team with Durant, Cloyster, and Drapion, Durant was unable to use Entrainment 3 times in the span of battle 50 to 150. In battle 94, Zapdos 4 used Detect and KOed with Heat Wave on turn 2, which I had never seen it do against Durant before. I went to Cloyster and got pretty lucky in sweeping since Thunderbolt didn't paralyze it and the remaining two Pokemon were frail and weak to Ice (including the Lax Incense Latios which Cloyster didn't miss against). In battle 125, Venusaur used Protect and then Substitute. Once Durant got Leech Seeded, Drapion came in and fully set up, which neither Garchomp nor Cloyster could do. In battle 131, Samurott used Detect and KOed Durant with a critical hit Hydro Pump - Drapion set up because it could stall Samurott out of Hydro Pump PP. In battle 68, Durant was able to use Entrainment but it required me to get creative. Floatzel used Protect, then Waterfall, then Protect. At that point, it could have KOed Durant with either a critical hit Waterfall or Waterfall followed by Aqua Jet, so I switched Cloyster in on Waterfall and switched back to Durant on Low Kick, which kept it out of Aqua Jet KO range but within Waterfall KO range, ensuring that Durant could use Entrainment without Floatzel using Protect. Stuff like that happens wayy too often for you to just say "my team can adjust when stuff goes wrong."
Look this is the last time I'm going to address you Maybe You are a cheater But I'm not. You are just a classic HATER! Just because I played a team Better than you or anybody for that matter you suggest that somebody is cheating! HA Ha!! WOW Don't talk to me man. I know enough Idiots

MOD Edit: Mean voice and triple posting? That's two big no-nos.
 
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Then enlighten us idiots and show us HOW you played your team better. That's the focus of this thread: for people to share their teams and strategies and provide feedback. I can guarantee a Singles Truant team is not as auto-win as Triples Talonflame-MBlastoise-Greninja, and even that playstyle requires some trickly plays to deal with Trick Room, Fake Out users, water immunities, etc. Surely 1400 battles had several instances where everything didn't go as planned, and required some creative play to overcome. What about those?
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
[G]iven the outlandishness of your claims (that this possibility has somehow never even entered your mind when it's bound to happen at least once against a Protect lead in the span of 100, let alone 1,000 battles), I'm now more inclined to believe you're just backing up your save state.
On the subject of cheating, the sad fact is that I'm sure a careful cheater can get away with it. I certainly hope there was no cheating here, but there's no sure-fire way to ever be sure. In the end, this thread runs on trust, and if that breaks down, we're in trouble. More generally though, I hope this exchange at least discourages potential cheaters in the future. Observe, ye potential cheaters, that just getting to the top of the leaderboard won't get you the same respect that a history of active, detailed, and insightful contribution to the thread does. If you're thinking about cheating, stop it. You'll get much more satisfaction and respect contributing and building streaks honestly.
 
Hi,Thanks for your insite. I think You have got it wrong. I never came here on no Rah Rah ish. I explained my situation to No Cheese. Asked Him if I could post it, and explained that I was Posting from an I-Pod. Since Everybody is thinking I'm The bad guy I guess I should let you know I am not able at this time to get to a computer.With out putting any more of My business out there I'll leave it at that.No Cheese got most of it covered besides a few threats Like Shuckle with wrap,Mismagius,Lapras,and A few pokes you need to switch out on or it's probably going to end your streak. Anyway I will do my best to answer any questions anybody has. Also I Never said anything to anybody who was not speaking about me or the team I use.Thanks again for your Time.
I'm going to respond to this and then put you on ignore, so feel free to respond in your typical adolescent fashion.

Regardless of how original your team is (as you keep insisting it is YOUR TEAM) or how good you are at playing it, all the people in this thread that you've been calling trash talkers and acting so defensive against all know a basic truth which you seem to be either completely ignorant of or are simply unwilling to acknowledge: the length of your streak is due to luck, not the merits of your team or your own personal skill.

To quote the movie Fight Club, "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." That is absolutely true in the Maison, no matter how invincible you think your team is. There is always something that can go wrong for you, and the longer you play, the more chances you give things to go wrong. Just off the top of my head, Walrein 4 can sweep your entire team and there would be nothing you could do about it. Sure, the odds of Lax Incense activating three times in a row are small, but if we're talking about thousands of battles, it's no longer improbable, it becomes inevitable. And that's just one threat that I can think of without having to refer to the actual sets in the Maison.

People are "trash talking" you not because they're upset over dropping a spot on the leader board, but because you're acting like a spoiled rich child who has had everything handed to him and believes that he has earned it all. It's galling because we know you've only achieved what you have because you have been lucky, and you keep acting like it's proof that you're the best there's ever been. If you would dial that back - if you'd admit that you've had some lucky breaks, or you actually engage in a discussion about why you think the team is so resilient to all the hax running rampant in the Maison instead of just saying, "You have to anticipate and adjust," - people would stop pissing in your cereal.

I don't really give a damn. Like I said, I'm putting you on ignore as you have proven to me that you have nothing to add to this discussion that I want to hear. But I'm posting this as my way of giving you the benefit of the doubt. You've said twice before that you don't know any of us. That's true. We don't know you, either. For all I know, you're just a guy whose life is very shitty right now except for the fact that you are rocking this one challenge in this one video game. I'm not trying to take that away from you - if anything, I'm happy that someone seems to have a lucky streak that makes all of those rage-inducing items and abilities and general hax just not matter. Personally, I'm a little jealous. But if you want us to congratulate you for it, you need to demonstrate to us that at least once it came down to some skill on your part and not the luck of the RNG, or the failure of the AI, or the advice of those who have come before. Show us a battle video of you making an ingenious play that no one else would have made, based on the discussion GG Unit, VaporeonIce, and NoCheese have already had. Because until you do that, you're just a schmuck whose luck is going to run out, sooner or later.
 
I'm going to respond to this and then put you on ignore, so feel free to respond in your typical adolescent fashion.

Regardless of how original your team is (as you keep insisting it is YOUR TEAM) or how good you are at playing it, all the people in this thread that you've been calling trash talkers and acting so defensive against all know a basic truth which you seem to be either completely ignorant of or are simply unwilling to acknowledge: the length of your streak is due to luck, not the merits of your team or your own personal skill.

To quote the movie Fight Club, "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." That is absolutely true in the Maison, no matter how invincible you think your team is. There is always something that can go wrong for you, and the longer you play, the more chances you give things to go wrong. Just off the top of my head, Walrein 4 can sweep your entire team and there would be nothing you could do about it. Sure, the odds of Lax Incense activating three times in a row are small, but if we're talking about thousands of battles, it's no longer improbable, it becomes inevitable. And that's just one threat that I can think of without having to refer to the actual sets in the Maison.

People are "trash talking" you not because they're upset over dropping a spot on the leader board, but because you're acting like a spoiled rich child who has had everything handed to him and believes that he has earned it all. It's galling because we know you've only achieved what you have because you have been lucky, and you keep acting like it's proof that you're the best there's ever been. If you would dial that back - if you'd admit that you've had some lucky breaks, or you actually engage in a discussion about why you think the team is so resilient to all the hax running rampant in the Maison instead of just saying, "You have to anticipate and adjust," - people would stop pissing in your cereal.

I don't really give a damn. Like I said, I'm putting you on ignore as you have proven to me that you have nothing to add to this discussion that I want to hear. But I'm posting this as my way of giving you the benefit of the doubt. You've said twice before that you don't know any of us. That's true. We don't know you, either. For all I know, you're just a guy whose life is very shitty right now except for the fact that you are rocking this one challenge in this one video game. I'm not trying to take that away from you - if anything, I'm happy that someone seems to have a lucky streak that makes all of those rage-inducing items and abilities and general hax just not matter. Personally, I'm a little jealous. But if you want us to congratulate you for it, you need to demonstrate to us that at least once it came down to some skill on your part and not the luck of the RNG, or the failure of the AI, or the advice of those who have come before. Show us a battle video of you making an ingenious play that no one else would have made, based on the discussion GG Unit, VaporeonIce, and NoCheese have already had. Because until you do that, you're just a schmuck whose luck is going to run out, sooner or later.
Ok I see you are also on the ban wagon.As far as adolescence goes that is all this thread seems to have to offer. Cry babies And Sore losers. Invade you are too ignorant to have figured it out by now I'm in a half way house. And it's because of big mouth punks like you all that I have spent the last 13 years in prison.and Yes I have one a thousand battles straight up . Being the morons who think someone has nothing better to do than cheat at a KIDS Game I have got to let you know that nobody in prison is allowed to own a computer. Therefore it is virtually impossible for me to have backed up anything!Man you are a sad bunch of people! You are all probably cheating with your 5000 wins! So question me all you want But you have ALL crossed a line that a Real man does not without proof! Oh and yeah I'm still the Best in Super Singles And I NEVER CHEATED! You people ain't nobody I need to earn respect from.Cause if I knew you I Would Take Mine Homie!
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
It appears we've reached the end of productive discussion here. JohnJohn0624, it seems like this would be a good time to take a break, as this isn't helping anything. You have your record, you're atop the leaderboard, but all the yelling and posturing and such is not helping the thread at all. You say you don't care about respect from people here, which is neither here nor there, but that you keep responding and arguing on this point suggests that you may indeed care. But at this point, after what you've posted, it's going to be very hard for you to win anyone over. I'd strongly prefer not to have to turn to forum infractions and bans and all that stuff. Take a break, enjoy your record (I'm not removing it), and come back when you have cooled down and are better able to discuss and contribute.

If you've indeed gone through what you say you have in life, I wish you the best of luck getting back on track. If Pokemon's helped with that, chalk up another small victory for these remarkably broadly appealing games.
 

turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I was ignoring this discussion for some time, but since accusations were tossed at the 5000-win streak's legimitacy, I suppose I have to step in for a word.

I've definitely had luck with that streak - the close battles I've posted demonstrate that with the near-loss at #3186 and others, but there are also some that I haven't posted as much about (outside the IRC channel), including:

-A very nearly lost battle in the 4500s with Greninja/Charizard V5 against Veteran Saba/Isabella with Heatran3 (Solar Beam), Terrakion2 and other top threats showing up. I played horribly, losing Gastrodon and Entei to Heatran3 and Terrakion2, respectively - then misreading calcs with Aegislash to get it killed as well. With three Pokémon dead for nothing, the battle ended in a 2v3 situation with MegaZard and Latios facing off against Heatran3, Entei2 and Terrakion2 (locked into Stone Edge) - and the only reason I was able to win in such a sure-loss situation was that Latios succesfully protected twice in a row while Entei1 used Will-O-Wisp on Terrakion (which failed to KO Latios and eventually struggled to death thanks to the burn) and opted to waste time instead of boosting with Calm Mind, and Heatran3 not having Flash Fire which I knew from it not having switched in after using Flamethrower earlier on Turn 1. If it did have Flash Fire, the battle would have proceeded differently because of the switch and it probably wouldn't have ended like this. It was after this battle that I switched Latios for Infernape to better handle Heatran and having access to Fake Out.

Anyway, I thought I had lost the battle for sure when Zard+Latios were against three enemies - but thanks to great luck, the win happened against all odds.

-The Rasmus battle with Mega Gardevoir where Garchomp3 dodged stuff and crit things with Outrage that I mentioned briefly (and forgot to save the battle video for) - I won it, but the AI's backups being Ferrothorn and Gastrodon instead of something threatening were crucial, and with one more 25% evasion roll, it might've easily been a loss.

-Miscallenous freezes with Lucario/Greninja and Mega Gardevoir - as the teams have a lot of Ice resistance and little Ice weakness, it isn't very common, but Rotom-W has gotten frozen by Blizzard many times, as have Lucario and Gardevoir. While there's been no outrageously close battles resulting from a freeze that I can recall, it's definitely a factor that can and will blow a battle wide open against threatening opponents.

-One time, I saw Glaceon1 (Quick Claw) in the center getting two Helping Hand boosts from the sides... and using Protect (without a Quick Claw activation). While this is a pretty ridiculous scenario as not many Eeveelutions have Helping Hand, if it did use Blizzard and activate Quick Claw, it could have OHKOed Lucario through resist and have a good shot at freezing other team members - and survive to use another Blizzard on the next turn, too. I wonder why it didn't go for Blizzard as with two Helping Hands, as it would've KO'd Greninja and Lucario - my best guess that the AI's move selection doesn't take the Helping Hand boost into account, or it doesn't know that its allies are going for it (which seems likely since Helping Hand into a status move is not an uncommon play from it).



And there's more. As faith_grins said, no matter what team you use, there'll always be a combination of misplays and hax that will take you down, though some teams are more resilient to it than others. I'd credit the many Ice resistances that Lucario/Greninja has for the relatively low impact that freezes have on that team, for example. Greninja/Charizard has Sunny weather preventing freezing. And on the new Doubles team, Gastrodon has Scald and Talonflame has Flare Blitz to thaw out, which have both been used to do so during the streak - quite often for Gastrodon, for that matter, as the inability to use Water moves drives Water-types with Water/Ice coverage to use a low-damage Ice Beam repeatedly.
 
turskain , I'd heard about the AI using Will-O-Wisp on its teammates (I haven't played enough Doubles/Triples/Multis to see it for myself), but the fact that it doing so saved your streak is effing classic. Thanks for that warstory.
 
Hey guys, I think I need advice on using Mega Kanga effectively. I know that Sucker Punch is a crucial part of using her, but I suck at knowing when to use it. Is there a way to tell if the AI might use a non-attacking move? Or should I just try and Sucker Punch anything that is weak to it and hope it succeeds?

Incidentally, wouldn't TheMantyke 's doubles team technically fit under the "ORAS only" restriction?
 

turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Hey guys, I think I need advice on using Mega Kanga effectively. I know that Sucker Punch is a crucial part of using her, but I suck at knowing when to use it. Is there a way to tell if the AI might use a non-attacking move? Or should I just try and Sucker Punch anything that is weak to it and hope it succeeds?

Incidentally, wouldn't TheMantyke 's doubles team technically fit under the "ORAS only" restriction?
Knowing the sets is crucial to using Sucker Punch. If the Pokémon has status moves, make sure you'll be fine even if Sucker Punch fails. For example, if you're using Sucker Punch to KO an Archeops that would kill your Talonflame otherwise, you will be fine even if it uses Protect since it is still not killing Talonflame. Opponents not to use Sucker Punch against liberally include anything with Hypnosis, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, Swagger, and others, as the AI always seems to like those moves - stuff like Rain Dance and Taunt is also commonly used.

Archeops is a bad example, but there aren't too many giant threats that outspeed Megakhan that have big status moves. Alakazam4 rarely uses Trick over Focus Blast (in Doubles/Triples), but Sucker Punching it is still OK since Trick will not KO your MegaKhan or a different Pokémon. Latis are an example of a good Sucker Punch target despite possibly having status moves, since it KOs sets 2-4 (even if Set4 uses DD/Hone Claws first), and if it turns out to be Set1 you can outspeed and use Return upon discovering that.

Edit: to clarify, in Doubles/Triples, Alakazam4 will sometimes use Trick on MegaKhan's allies - it may use it even if the target is holding Choice Specs or another Choice item (this also goes for Manectric4), and if it Tricks away its Specs in exchange for an item that doesn't boost its damage, it will no longer OHKO MegaKhan with Focus Blast (barring a crit). As others have clarified, it will not target a Mega Stone holder with Trick, since it knows the move will fail.
 
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Knowing the sets is crucial to using Sucker Punch. If the Pokémon has status moves, make sure you'll be fine even if Sucker Punch fails. For example, if you're using Sucker Punch to KO an Archeops that would kill your Talonflame otherwise, you will be fine even if it uses Protect since it is still not killing Talonflame. Opponents not to use Sucker Punch against liberally include anything with Hypnosis, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, Swagger, and others, as the AI always seems to like those moves - stuff like Rain Dance and Taunt is also commonly used.

Archeops is a bad example, but there aren't too many giant threats that outspeed Megakhan that have big status moves. Alakazam4 rarely uses Trick over Focus Blast (in Doubles/Triples), but Sucker Punching it is still OK since Trick will not KO your MegaKhan or a different Pokémon. Latis are an example of a good Sucker Punch target despite possibly having status moves, since it KOs sets 2-4 (even if Set4 uses DD/Hone Claws first), and if it turns out to be Set1 you can outspeed and use Return upon discovering that.
Cheers for those specific examples. By the way, this is Singles, so Alakazam could use Trick all it liked and do nothing (though my PP would run out). So most of the time it's probably best to go for offence?
 
Cheers for those specific examples. By the way, this is Singles, so Alakazam could use Trick all it liked and do nothing (though my PP would run out). So most of the time it's probably best to go for offence?
I used mega kangaskhan in singles and I can't remember it ever using trick over focus blast, so Sucker Punch should be safe, at least with 8 tries
 
Cheers for those specific examples. By the way, this is Singles, so Alakazam could use Trick all it liked and do nothing (though my PP would run out). So most of the time it's probably best to go for offence?
To add to the above post, if Alakazam uses Trick, it'll be locked to it, so it's safe to use Return/Double-Edge on the next turn.
 
Cheers for those specific examples. By the way, this is Singles, so Alakazam could use Trick all it liked and do nothing (though my PP would run out). So most of the time it's probably best to go for offence?
In an nutshell, you can be 99.99% sure that something will use a straight-up attack if it can deal enough damage to KO you that turn, so go ahead and use Sucker Punch if you're sufficiently weakened and have nothing good to switch to. That last part's the operative phrase; since most stuff with status moves happens to be weak offensively, the right status absorbing teammates can use them as set-up fodder. Using Jumpman's team as an example, you don't even need to predict whether a lead Regigigas could hit Kangaskhan with Focus Blast or Toxic or Confuse Ray or whatever because you can just switch to Gliscor and end up ahead 3-2 with everyone at 100% health and Gliscor behind a Substitute.
 
Hey guys, I think I need advice on using Mega Kanga effectively. I know that Sucker Punch is a crucial part of using her, but I suck at knowing when to use it. Is there a way to tell if the AI might use a non-attacking move? Or should I just try and Sucker Punch anything that is weak to it and hope it succeeds?

Incidentally, wouldn't TheMantyke 's doubles team technically fit under the "ORAS only" restriction?
Generally, if the AI can KO MegaKhan, it will go for the kill rather than using a non-attacking move. If they're slower, they'll usually use Thunder Wave (but if they're slower, you shouldn't use Sucker Punch anyway); if they're faster, they tend not to use T-Wave (although they sometimes will). The AI really likes using Will-O-Wisp, so expect them to use it. Hypnosis is a pretty good bet as well (although it's very rare after battle #40). Stat boosting moves are less predictable, although the overwhelming majority of stat boosters are slower than even Adamant Mega Kangaskhan (most of them have stuff like Curse, or they're Dragon Dancers that need a DD to outspeed). The AI often likes to boost if they can't KO you, though. I've found that Jolteon really likes using Fake Tears. I've found that other moves, such as Rain Dance and Yawn (speaking of Jolteon sets) are way less predictable, and I actually had a little difficulty using Mega Khan against Yawn Jolteon for just that reason.

EDIT: If the opponent is weak to Sucker Punch but isn't faster than you, go for Return anyway unless they resist it (which is mostly just Ghosts); the power difference between SE Sucker Punch and STAB Return is negligible, and usually isn't enough to fail to KO. Also, if the AI is slower than you and they have Trick Room, they'll pretty much always use it, so go for the Return if you can KO or the Power-Up Punch if you can't.
 

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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fyi the ai "knows" kanga has a megastone and therefore will never attempt trick with zam4 against kanga

source: i have successfully sucker punched like 80/80 zam4s, lead or not
 
Battle #128: HTUW-WWWW-WWWH-M6CS

Durant-Cloyster-Drapion vs. Punk Guy Quinton

A noteworthy replay because a lead Roserade blocked Durant's Entrainment 4 straight times with Protect and took it out through Leech Seed and Giga Drain. Shoot, I must be the unluckiest guy in the world for something like that to happen so early on in my streak! Anyways, Drapion sets up a Substitute its first turn out against the predicted Leech Seed and gets started boosting with Acupressure because Giga Drain doesn't do enough to break the Sub.

So, what would be the overall strategy for this situation if Garchomp had been in Drapion's place?
 
fyi the ai "knows" kanga has a megastone and therefore will never attempt trick with zam4 against kanga

source: i have successfully sucker punched like 80/80 zam4s, lead or not
I've had AI try to trick mega sceptile multiple times, before it evolves. I wonder if that's exclusive to the ORAS megas.
 

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