Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition

[aVocado]

from B+ to B: Mega Camerupt, Abomasnow, Pidgeot, Houndoom, gives free switches to Dragalge (outside of spore), isn't that good of an answer to Sharpedo anymore thanks to Strong Jaw + Ice Fang, etc. In general I feel like Amoonguss' slot on a team has significantly decreased because of the introduction of those Pokemon and how the metagame has evolved around it. I realize it can't allow any of them to switch in because of Spore, but if that is dealt with then Amoonguss ceases to become a threat to the majority of the RU teams right now because most teams have at least one of those Pokemon that immensely threaten it. Pidgeot can eve outlive Amoonguss with Roost.

from A to A-: I know Doublade is bulky as hell. I know it can switch into a lot of things. But switching into a lot of things makes it easily worn down, and it can't handle the majority of the new threats. Lopunny and Pidgeot both threaten to deal ~80%+ with HJK And Heat Wave respectively, and are immune to it's Shadow Sneak/Claw, making it a lot harder for Doublade to pull a sweep. Houndoom's arrival also doomed Doublade unless it runs Sacred Sword, and I've yet to see Doublades run that (I guess metagame hasn't developed yet? idk.). Even Pokemon like Sceptile which one would assume Doublade handles can eventually muscle their way through, as Leaf Storm does 48% minimum iirc. I know Doublade forces it to switch out but it can only switch in once. Additionally, the niche of being a good spinblocker for HO teams while also having potential to sweep isn't that necessary anymore because spinners have become even rarer. I haven't even seen a Hitmonlee in ages, personally.

And now perhaps the most controversial:

from S to A+: Simply put, the metagame evolved. It is rivaled by Fletchinder as a Pokemon that can reliably revenge kill Lopunny and Sceptile, and yes I know Fletch usually doesn't U-turn, but still. Mega Pidgeot also gives it a bit of competition as a Hurricane-spamming bird. Other Pokemon such as Dragalge and Houndoom can punish it depending on which STAB it locks itself into (unless U-turn), and the metagame being in Scarf Moltres's favour (rather than say, LO tres) means Pokemon like specially defensive Alomomola and Rhyperior can easily switch in and wall it. In the end I don't see Moltres being S-rank material in today's metagame. Fire/Flying isn't nigh unresistable anymore and the metagame shift isn't as kind to it as XY was. Offensive teams can handle it, and it can barely touch defensive teams outside of maybe u-turning on a slowking switch and going to a pursuit user or something.

Also I support Bronzong to A-. It's just so useful right now, and it's an amazing rocks setter for balance/BO teams.

I've also been using Tyrantrum more and I might nom it up later if it continues to surprise me like it is right now.

 

[Bouff]

lol imma have to disagree with molt moving down. i'm not denying the metagame evolved, otherwise regirock wouldnt be a thing, but it's bar none the most metagame defining mon at the moment. fletchinder doesn't really rival it as a revenge killer either, as pretty much anyone using either of those mons has a flying-switch in, and it can't docan't do jack shit to steel-types besides esca other than burn them (yes, that does cripple them, but nearly every team with bronzong or registeel on it has a cleric on it, and fletch hates being toxic'd / para'd). on the other hand, molt can afford to run a fire STAB (or rather, have one that actually does damage without hindering its stats), and it arguably has better bulk than fletch. i also find it very..uh, questionable (to put it in a nice way) that you act as if it's deadweight against defensive teams; while that might be a /little/ true for scarf sets, sub roost sets can be pretty annoying for defensive teams, and moltres shits on nearly all of its counters with a sunny day + solarbeam lo set. hell, lo sets in general are a bit annoying for defensive teams as they can't really take repeated hits without relying on a miss, barring av king, which is prepared for to hell and back anyway on nearly every team in the meta.

and how do offensive teams "handle it"? lol...it has 3-4 switch ins for the scarf set, and lo sets either wear them down extremely quickly (eel) or have to risk coming on hp grass, removing their ability to switch in again (rhyperior, av kabutops), making the only reliable switch in on offense slowking, which is kinda Bad, as i said earlier that it's overprepared for in this metagame and not nearly as effective as it was in XY. while it is much more prone to revenge killing, it's not exactly the most reliable method either considering moltres can take a frustration at 90% and ko back with fire blast, mega sceptile can't kill it either, and electrics are practically non existent in this metagame with mega camel and sceptile. it's not perfect obviously, but its positives overshadow its flaws by FAR and as such i think it should be in S.


e: i guess i should rephrase that part, i don't think slowking is terrible in this metagame or anything, it's not. i'm just saying that literally every ru team that packs moltres (well any ru team in general) is extremely prepared for slowking, and with the amount of pursuit trappers in this meta it's definitely not as easy to slap on a team as it was in the past

 

[phantom]

I'd like to add that the metagame shifts are actually very good for moltres for two reasons. In regards to the LO set, defensive teams no longer have the luxury to run do-nothing Moltres checks such as Regirock and Lanturn anymore due to the new-found presence of both mega and non-mega wallbreakers making each and every single slot on stall more important than the next, which is also a reason Slowking has been on the decline lately. In regards to the scarf set, it's almost on par with lo due to the fact that it can revenge kill almost every mega threat, and please, don't even start with one of the most overrated pokemon in this tier, Fletchinder; it's not even close to being on the same level as scarf Moltres due to its lack of bulk and useable Fire STAB; any flying resist that can hit it super effectively / status it with Toxic beats it, and there's quite a few pokemon that fit the bill here.

 

[Holiday]

I'd like to nominate Combusken for B rank.

Combusken gained a few new things with ORAS. Is it notable moves? No. Maybe some released/hidden ability? Nope. What it got was a slew of new Pokemon it can pass to. Combusken has always been a solid choice for passing Bulk Up, Swords Dance, and/or Speed Boosts to a pokemon, and with Mega Lopunny, Mega Sharpedo, Pangoro, and Mega Glalie have been on the rise in usage, it just makes sense that one of the best supporters should move up with it. It obviously has some weakness in 4MSS and being Fletchinder bait, but I think it's a solid choice for any team looking for a quick fix to victory of played right, and should be moved up for it.

 

[aVocado]

lol imma have to disagree with molt moving down. i'm not denying the metagame evolved, otherwise regirock wouldnt be a thing, but it's bar none the most metagame defining mon at the moment. fletchinder doesn't really rival it as a revenge killer either, as pretty much anyone using either of those mons has a flying-switch in, and it can't docan't do jack shit to steel-types besides esca other than burn them (yes, that does cripple them, but nearly every team with bronzong or registeel on it has a cleric on it, and fletch hates being toxic'd / para'd). on the other hand, molt can afford to run a fire STAB (or rather, have one that actually does damage without hindering its stats), and it arguably has better bulk than fletch. i also find it very..uh, questionable (to put it in a nice way) that you act as if it's deadweight against defensive teams; while that might be a /little/ true for scarf sets, sub roost sets can be pretty annoying for defensive teams, and moltres shits on nearly all of its counters with a sunny day + solarbeam lo set. hell, lo sets in general are a bit annoying for defensive teams as they can't really take repeated hits without relying on a miss, barring av king, which is prepared for to hell and back anyway on nearly every team in the meta.

and how do offensive teams "handle it"? lol...it has 3-4 switch ins for the scarf set, and lo sets either wear them down extremely quickly (eel) or have to risk coming on hp grass, removing their ability to switch in again (rhyperior, av kabutops), making the only reliable switch in on offense slowking, which is kinda Bad, as i said earlier that it's overprepared for in this metagame and not nearly as effective as it was in XY. while it is much more prone to revenge killing, it's not exactly the most reliable method either considering moltres can take a frustration at 90% and ko back with fire blast, mega sceptile can't kill it either, and electrics are practically non existent in this metagame with mega camel and sceptile. it's not perfect obviously, but its positives overshadow its flaws by FAR and as such i think it should be in S.


e: i guess i should rephrase that part, i don't think slowking is terrible in this metagame or anything, it's not. i'm just saying that literally every ru team that packs moltres (well any ru team in general) is extremely prepared for slowking, and with the amount of pursuit trappers in this meta it's definitely not as easy to slap on a team as it was in the past

For the point about Moltres being mostly deadweight against defensive teams, yes, I was referring to Scarf obviously. I acknowledge the existence of SubRoost and sunnybeam sets but honestly they're practically non-existent lol. I know you'll say that that's irrelevant though so I'll skip that point. LO can be threatening to defensive teams, but there are multiple other wallbreakers capable of doing just the same in terms of wallbreaking (pangoro, dragalge), and while they might not last as much as Moltres can due to lack of recovery, they sure do hit a lot stronger and have arguably less switch-ins. Anyway, I agree, LO Moltres is very threatening, but the SR weakness coupled with the fact that fire/grass/flying coverage doesn't hit the majority of the tier anymore makes it look A+ in my eyes, and not S worthy anymore.

As for offensive teams handling it; Houndoom is immune to Fire, Dragalge resists Fire and can easily take a hurricane, LO sets are outsped and easily dealt with by a lot of Pokemon like Glalie which deals 81% minimum with Double-Edge. Pidgeot, while only dealing 65% minimum, can still outspeed and dent it. Sharpedo handles all sets but Sub maybe, and timid scarf tres locked into hurricane unless it's already at +2 speed. Tyrantrum. Meloetta can soft check I guess. while I didn't personally use it, Kabutops is in B+ rn and it's a pretty solid check afaik.

It's a very good Pokemon, but it's reign of terror is in the past now.

 

[phantom]

Can you please explain what new threats that we have in ORAS that we didn't have in XY that made Moltres's coverage worse? Like none of the new Megas/wallbreakers enjoy taking either STAB, and we've had no drops or significant Moltres counter that rose up in viability to the point where is has an effect on Moltres's performance. SR also isn't even that big of an issue unless Gligar moves up. I don't think the transition from XY to ORAS made Moltres worse, I'd argue that it's actually slightly better now.

None of the checks you listed for offense are even that good, either. I wouldn't use Mega Glalie, an offensive Ice-type, to check an offensive Fire-type; Houndoom and Dragalge have to predict in order to not get destroyed by Flying STAB after SR, or Moltres could just click U-turn on them. Mega Pidgeot loses to Scarf Moltres one-versus-one. Like I don't understand how any of this makes you think it got worse.

 

[aVocado]

Can you please explain what new threats that we have in ORAS that we didn't have in XY that made Moltres's coverage worse? Like none of the new Megas/wallbreakers enjoy taking either STAB, and we've had no drops or significant Moltres counter that rose up in viability to the point where is has an effect on Moltres's performance. SR also isn't even that big of an issue unless Gligar moves up. I don't think the transition from XY to ORAS made Moltres worse, I'd argue that it's actually slightly better now.

None of the checks you listed for offense are even that good, either. I wouldn't use Mega Glalie, an offensive Ice-type, to check an offensive Fire-type; Houndoom and Dragalge have to predict in order to not get destroyed by Flying STAB after SR, or Moltres could just click U-turn on them. Mega Pidgeot loses to Scarf Moltres one-versus-one. Like I don't understand how any of this makes you think it got worse.

I'm not saying you should use Glalie, an offensive Ice-type, to check an offensive Fire-type. I'm saying Glalie, the offensive Ice-type, can outspeed the offensive Fire- and Flying-type, and deal 86% minimum damage to it. If it's an offensive team, naturally it wouldn't have any safe switch ins to a scary wallbreaker besides x4 resists such as Tyrantrum and Kabutops, so I don't know why you're looking at it from the mentality that offensive teams have to have counters or checks that can switch in. Houndoom is immune to one of its STABs while Dragalge resists Fire and can easily take a Hurricane while OHKOing back with Draco. Both sound like pretty good checks to me.

And I also dislike how you disregarded Tyrantrum, which x4 and x2 resists both of its STABs, and is hella scary right now with Outrage, and from my experience so far with it it's been great on my offensive teams.

 

[phantom]

I'm not saying you should use Glalie, an offensive Ice-type, to check an offensive Fire-type. I'm saying Glalie, the offensive Ice-type, can outspeed the offensive Fire- and Flying-type, and deal 86% minimum damage to it.

Okay, so you're able to revenge kill a wallbreaker, how does that make it worse again?

If it's an offensive team, naturally it wouldn't have any safe switch ins to a scary wallbreaker besides x4 resists such as Tyrantrum and Kabutops, so I don't know why you're looking at it from the mentality that offensive teams have to have counters or checks that can switch in.

I don't think you get it. The thing with Scarf Moltres vs offense as that it has disgustingly strong stabs that are very difficult to play around unless you have the prediction skills of a god or use a specialized check such as AV Kabutops, which take note, really only became a thing because of Scarf Moltres's incredible advantage vs offensive teams to begin with. I'm not saying offensive teams need a counter, Scarf moltres is a huge threat for offensive because of the lack of Pokemon that can take either dual STAB. Then combine this with its resilience to priority and the ability to wear down offensive checks with U-turn and you can hopefully see why it's such a huge threat. The way to play around Scarf Moltres vs offense is to predict or use a specific check.

Houndoom is immune to one of its STABs while Dragalge resists Fire and can easily take a Hurricane while OHKOing back with Draco. Both sound like pretty good checks to me.

Houndoom gets destroyed by its other STAB though, which isn't all that great because as I said before, you need to predict around it given the circumstance, and for Dragalge:

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 95-113 (30 - 35.7%) -- 30.5% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 191-226 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If it has taken any prior damage at all, it cannot switch in; take note that Dragalge being slower, lacking in recovery, and susceptibility to Hurricane makes it a shitty check.

Same deal when it's up against Scarf sets:

252 SpA Moltres Hurricane vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 147-174 (46.5 - 55%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO

And I also dislike how you disregarded Tyrantrum, which x4 and x2 resists both of its STABs, and is hella scary right now with Outrage, and from my experience so far with it it's been great on my offensive teams.

I would never move something down a rank because it loses to freaking Tyrantrum. That Pokemon has a lot of difficulty fitting on teams and is cleanly 2HKOed by a LO Hurricane after a smidge of prior damage w/o an Assualt Vest anyway.

 

[Holiday]

To make a long story short with all of the above stuff, Moltres pretty much bones anything not specifically made to block it... But if you have to make something so niche to block it (AV Tops p much became a thing for Moltres) that's not a sign to move it down. Mega Houndoom and Mega Lopunny lose to LO Technitop so we should move them down too amirite?

Also to plug my noms: Combusken for B, Aromatisse for A+

 

[Bouff]

ok well funbro pretty much said what i would say but there's one thing you said that i don't understand at all....


what does a set being nonexistent on the ladder have to do with if it's good or not? i mean, do you really expect anything from the ru ladder? like, curse registeel was a thing in xy but just because it wasn't used on the ladder meant it shouldn't be considered when discussing it. i really don't get how you basically say those sets shouldn't be looked at when trying to place a mon's viability, lol

 

[Mew2]

People's noms:

: It became rarer with the ORAS transition and therefore people are less prepared for him. Still an amazing mon that can still easily pass to his teammates Bulk Ups and Speed Boosts solid B imo.

: Like Combusken, Aromatisse became rarer with the transition to ORAS but her walling capabilities remain the same. Aromatisse can still wall some RU top threats like Mega Doom and Lopunny if healthy and she still possesses a nice immunity to Taunt. However, any good player can easily apply offensive pressure with heavy blows and hazards. You always need to remember that she lacks a one turn recovery move like Audino or Regenerator like Slowking so I'll keep her at A but I wouldn't complain if she rises to A+.

: Very controversial nom especially after it was considered the king of RU two months ago. While it posses amazing STAB combination coupled with great special attack it still requires that defog/ rapid spin support and it relies on inaccurate STABs but it had all of this problems already so what was the cause for its downfall? With the new ORAS threats, Moltres' great 90 base speed isn't enough anymore and thus gets outsped by many new threats like Megaa Sceptile, Mega Doom, Mega Lopunny and Mega Glalie which forces Moltres to drop its Life Orb and Sub Roost sets in favor of a scarf set (not saying this sets are bad but they lost viability with the transition to ORAS). But I still think that Moltres should remain S because it checks many of the top threats and it's basically impossible to check for offensive teams.

Agreeing with everything else that Arikado said.

My noms:

A ---> A-: I'm putting this two on the same boat because they have similar problems; great bulk, amazing offensive stats but shitty defensive typing and slow as hell. Trick Room support is mandatory if you want to use them to their full potential and even then they have a hard time switching in because they are weak to common type attacks in the tier and lack reliable recovery. While I think they are great pokes, I feel that you are better off using your mega slot for something broken better like Mega Doom or Mega Lopunny who require less support and offer better results.

A ---> A+: Mega Pidgeot is an amazing hurricane user thanks to his ability No Guard which gives our route 1 bird a spammable 120 BP STAB move with a 30% chance of confusion (basically flying scald). Also, Mega Pidgeot is one of the fastest pokemon in the entire tier making it difficult to check without the help of a scarfed poke and it has decent coverage in the form of Heat Wave and can even support his team with Defog or Tailwind support. In conclusion, I definitely thing this is a very underrated mega that deserves more recognition.

Finally creating more controversy with this nom:

A+ ---> S: The great wall of RU is as amazing as ever thanks to the ORAS transition; while she didn't gained anything new, the metagame shifted in favor of fast offense and powerful wallbreakers like LO Moltres or Specs Exploud aren't as used anymore which means that Cress has an easy time dealing with offense. She walls most of the top tier threats like Mega Sceptile, Scarf Tres, Mega Lopunny, Mega Pidgeot, Dragalge (a bit tricky tho) and many more while supporting her team with Thunder Waves and even with Lunar Dance! She is also not easy to trap and most dark trappers like Spiritomb are forced to play mindgames with Cress in order to take her down. Just to show why she deserves S here are some fun calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 204-242 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 130-154 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 135-160 (30.4 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 186-219 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recover
252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 192-226 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 186-219 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also thanks for the Bronzong support ^_^

 

[EonX]

Alright, guess I'll give my two cents on some of these:

Aromatisse: Aromatisse is still a solid Pokemon, but the offensive nature of the current metagame strains Aromatisse quite a bit. As she doesn't have Regenerator like Alomomola, it is very difficult to keep Aromatisse and her teammates healthy at the same time when the opponent is able to apply offensive pressure. And what can you do better than anything else in an offensive metagame? Apply offensive pressure. This means that Aromatisse is generally forced to choose between keeping herself healthy or keeping her teammates healthy. She's got the same great defensive typing, Aromatherapy + Wish in one mon, and a decent enough offensive presence to keep most setup sweepers at bay, but I feel the meta is a bit too offensive for Aromatisse to fulfill her duties enough to be worthy of A+ status. I think she's fine in A rank.

Moltres: This one is really controversial. Arikado raises some really good points, but there's a couple of key factors that everyone has missed up to this point imo. An S rank Pokemon is supposed to be very influential in the current metagame and very easy to support. So, is Moltres very influential in the current megatame? Of course it is. Maybe not quite as bad as it started to get toward the end of XY, but you've still got to have an answer or two to it. This is partially the reason why I run Scarf Meloetta on most of my HO teams as it gives me a one-time switch-in that can generally beat Moltres so long as Rocks are up. I actually have SpDef Golbat on one of my balance teams as a surprise Moltres check, but the point is, you need to have a response or two for Moltres if you hope to win a lot of RU games. Is Moltres easy to support? Yup, it still is. The Scarf set has kind of become the "norm" so to speak with all the fast new Megas and all it really needs is a good wallbreaker (Dragalge, Pangoro, Exploud, Meloetta. Take your pick) and hazard control (Shiftry, Gligar, Skuntank, Hitmonlee, etc.) As you can plainly see, this kind of support is really easy to provide for almost any team, even semistall. For the Life Orb set (which is still dangerous) just get a fast mon / Scarfer over the wallbreaker (so Mega Sceptile, Meloetta, Mega Lopunny) Moltres may not be quite as powerful as it was in XY, but it's still a pretty influential threat that's still very easy to support. For that reason, I feel it should stay in S rank.

Mega Camerupt: I won't speak on Mega Abomasnow as I don't have experience using it in ORAS yet, but Mega Camerupt definitely should stay in A rank. I've been using it on a balance / semi-stall team recently as an offensive Rocks user, and it's been very surprising. One thing you really want to do though is run enough Speed EVs to outspeed base 30s after Mega Evolving (84 EVs) This lets you do all sorts of cool shit, like outspeed Amoonguss (no Spore for you!) Cofagrigus, and Slowking (only matters if it's weakened, but still cool af if it is weakened) after Mega Evolution. However, the fun doesn't stop there. Base 40 Speed before Mega Evolution. So what does 84 Speed EVs do for that? Oh, idk, just let you outspeed Doublade, Rhyperior, Druddigon, and Registeel before Mega Evolving. This let's you just wait on Mega Evolving until you're in safely against one of these threats. Then, you just Mega Evolve on them, outspeed them, and crush them with Earth Power or Fire Blast while getting the immediate Sheer Force boost. Mega Camerupt is definitely more at home on a Trick Room team, but by running 84 Speed EVs on it, Mega Camerupt can be surprisingly effective without Trick Room support. That said, it does love to have paralysis and Wish support though, but considering the fact that Alomomola and Cresselia cover its weaknesses very nicely (and are two of the fattest mons in the tier) this isn't as much of a burden as you'd think.

Mega Pidgeot: Yes please. Ok, so I'm probably going to be a bit biased on this one as Mega Pidgeot is my favorite new Mega, but that's only because it's so amazing. It literally doesn't need coverage outside of Hurricane and Heat Wave, which lets it have two free slots to work with. I personally prefer U-turn and Roost as this allows Mega Pidgeot to not only wear down its checks and counters, but also keep itself healthy throughout the battle. Granted, you may not get many opportunities to Roost against offensive teams, but it helps Mega Pidgeot perform better against fatter teams that are likely to have more resilient answers to it. Heck, if you don't want Roost, Tailwind is a great option in that last slot to give Mega Pidgeot and its team a quick burst of Speed to finish out the game with. One thing I don't like on it though is Defog. I think Defog is about the worst move you can have on it. Why? Because it's weak to Rocks, has no Leftovers recovery, and doesn't have Eviolite to bolster its defenses to make up for this. Heck, I feel even Toxic is a better option on it since that actually helps to wear down shit like Cresselia, Rhyperior, Gastrodon, and Slowking. You know, stuff that can actually take multiple Hurricanes to the face? Anyway, Mega Pidgeot is great on Spikes offense / VoltTurn because of its speedy nature, powerful Hurricanes, and tendency to scout with U-turn. Great Pokemon and definitely one I feel is A+ worthy.

 

[aVocado]

Moving on from Moltres because arguing about it (same as pre-ORAS) never results in anything good for some reason. both parties are stubborn as hell @_@

from B to B+: I've only used the CB set so far, but jesus fuck it's fucking powerful. It's like Dragalge except it can stay in and just keep clicking Outrage, has more speed, nifty resistances, and Rock-type STAB. First of all, it's typing makes it a pretty solid check to both Moltres and Mega Pidgeot, which is great to have on offensive teams. It's raw physical bulk means it won't die from any hit, but it's pitiful SpD stat leaves a lot to be desired. I know I'm contradicting myself by saying it's a great check to 2 amazing special attackers but later saying it's got pitiful SpD, but Tyrantrum x4 resists Fire Blast and resists Hurricane, so yeah.

Here are some calcs showcasing its power:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 246-289 (56.6 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 315-372 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 144-169 (43.2 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO (2HKO with SR.. Ice Fang does like 93% min)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 226-267 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 156-184 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Outrage: 23 - 27.2%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 211-249 (47.5 - 56%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed with SR)

I might test out DD soon enough.

edit: Also definitely support Pidgeot to A+. It's amazing.

edit: replay showcasing Tyrantrum's power: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-192358843

 

[Taiwan Province]

Alright, guess I'll give my two cents on some of these:

Aromatisse: Aromatisse is still a solid Pokemon, but the offensive nature of the current metagame strains Aromatisse quite a bit. As she doesn't have Regenerator like Alomomola, it is very difficult to keep Aromatisse and her teammates healthy at the same time when the opponent is able to apply offensive pressure. And what can you do better than anything else in an offensive metagame? Apply offensive pressure. This means that Aromatisse is generally forced to choose between keeping herself healthy or keeping her teammates healthy. She's got the same great defensive typing, Aromatherapy + Wish in one mon, and a decent enough offensive presence to keep most setup sweepers at bay, but I feel the meta is a bit too offensive for Aromatisse to fulfill her duties enough to be worthy of A+ status. I think she's fine in A rank.

Moltres: This one is really controversial. Arikado raises some really good points, but there's a couple of key factors that everyone has missed up to this point imo. An S rank Pokemon is supposed to be very influential in the current metagame and very easy to support. So, is Moltres very influential in the current megatame? Of course it is. Maybe not quite as bad as it started to get toward the end of XY, but you've still got to have an answer or two to it. This is partially the reason why I run Scarf Meloetta on most of my HO teams as it gives me a one-time switch-in that can generally beat Moltres so long as Rocks are up. I actually have SpDef Golbat on one of my balance teams as a surprise Moltres check, but the point is, you need to have a response or two for Moltres if you hope to win a lot of RU games. Is Moltres easy to support? Yup, it still is. The Scarf set has kind of become the "norm" so to speak with all the fast new Megas and all it really needs is a good wallbreaker (Dragalge, Pangoro, Exploud, Meloetta. Take your pick) and hazard control (Shiftry, Gligar, Skuntank, Hitmonlee, etc.) As you can plainly see, this kind of support is really easy to provide for almost any team, even semistall. For the Life Orb set (which is still dangerous) just get a fast mon / Scarfer over the wallbreaker (so Mega Sceptile, Meloetta, Mega Lopunny) Moltres may not be quite as powerful as it was in XY, but it's still a pretty influential threat that's still very easy to support. For that reason, I feel it should stay in S rank.

Mega Camerupt: I won't speak on Mega Abomasnow as I don't have experience using it in ORAS yet, but Mega Camerupt definitely should stay in A rank. I've been using it on a balance / semi-stall team recently as an offensive Rocks user, and it's been very surprising. One thing you really want to do though is run enough Speed EVs to outspeed base 30s after Mega Evolving (84 EVs) This lets you do all sorts of cool shit, like outspeed Amoonguss (no Spore for you!) Cofagrigus, and Slowking (only matters if it's weakened, but still cool af if it is weakened) after Mega Evolution. However, the fun doesn't stop there. Base 40 Speed before Mega Evolution. So what does 84 Speed EVs do for that? Oh, idk, just let you outspeed Doublade, Rhyperior, Druddigon, and Registeel before Mega Evolving. This let's you just wait on Mega Evolving until you're in safely against one of these threats. Then, you just Mega Evolve on them, outspeed them, and crush them with Earth Power or Fire Blast while getting the immediate Sheer Force boost. Mega Camerupt is definitely more at home on a Trick Room team, but by running 84 Speed EVs on it, Mega Camerupt can be surprisingly effective without Trick Room support. That said, it does love to have paralysis and Wish support though, but considering the fact that Alomomola and Cresselia cover its weaknesses very nicely (and are two of the fattest mons in the tier) this isn't as much of a burden as you'd think.

Mega Pidgeot: Yes please. Ok, so I'm probably going to be a bit biased on this one as Mega Pidgeot is my favorite new Mega, but that's only because it's so amazing. It literally doesn't need coverage outside of Hurricane and Heat Wave, which lets it have two free slots to work with. I personally prefer U-turn and Roost as this allows Mega Pidgeot to not only wear down its checks and counters, but also keep itself healthy throughout the battle. Granted, you may not get many opportunities to Roost against offensive teams, but it helps Mega Pidgeot perform better against fatter teams that are likely to have more resilient answers to it. Heck, if you don't want Roost, Tailwind is a great option in that last slot to give Mega Pidgeot and its team a quick burst of Speed to finish out the game with. One thing I don't like on it though is Defog. I think Defog is about the worst move you can have on it. Why? Because it's weak to Rocks, has no Leftovers recovery, and doesn't have Eviolite to bolster its defenses to make up for this. Heck, I feel even Toxic is a better option on it since that actually helps to wear down shit like Cresselia, Rhyperior, Gastrodon, and Slowking. You know, stuff that can actually take multiple Hurricanes to the face? Anyway, Mega Pidgeot is great on Spikes offense / VoltTurn because of its speedy nature, powerful Hurricanes, and tendency to scout with U-turn. Great Pokemon and definitely one I feel is A+ worthy.

For Camerupt it's too slow and doesn't do much w/o trick room. Speaking of stealth rock lead it's easily killed by Gligar, and if you need a fire type wall breaker even NU typhlosion would do a better job.

And I found it interesting that Camerupt is ranked A in both NU and RU. My guess is that it gets easily walled and/or killed by some common bulky NU mons like Hariyama, Qwilfish, Mantine and Weezing.

 

[g]

Thoughts on current nominations

From B+ to B
To be honest at the moment Amoonguss is nothing too great with all the new threats capable of shitting on him in some way (Glalie, Pidgeot, Houndoom, Dragalge, Pangoro) but for a lot of teams Spoer+Poison STAB is still ridicolously tedious to switch in (and even Escavalier who takes both doesnt like Foul Play whatsoever) and Fire/Ice/Flying types all struggle to come in repeatedly because of tis Stealth Rock weakness. Cresselia being so cool at the moment is another middle finger at this but then again Spore is so fucking good and reliable i wouldn't drop this mon down but i am still pretty unsure.

From A to A-
This Pokemon is still very very good and while it gained a lot of checks they still dislike switching into it and arent that durable (for example if SR are up Houndoom can switch in only one time before being in Sneak range and that full health Doublade beats Mega Pidgeot switching in. You should also remember that this Pokemon is what stops Slurpuff from easily destroying offense and is a decent Glalie and Tyrantrum check :o Stay in A imo.

From S to A+
Spirit and Bouffalant already said everything i would,, needs to stay S rank

From A to A-
Mega Abomasnow is still a very very good mon and the only reason i would drop it is opportunity cost considering it beats new threats like Sceptile and Pidgeot with its SD set (probably the best atm) which more than makes up from Bronzong popularity hindering its wallbreaking prowesses. Stay A

From A to A-
In my experience Camerupt has been quite a great Pokemon. It is easilly worn down but being a top notch Alomomola partner makes up for that and its ridicolous power + offensive coverage is awesome. Opportunity cost is a thing though and it is still very slow so i am fine with it dropping :/

From A+ to S
Very controversial indeed but Cresselia rising to S rank is not out of the question in my opinion. It has ridicolous bulk that lets it beat most offensive Pokemon 1v1 and is so bulky it can set up on Mega Camerupt if you arent using the Thunder Wave set :o

From B to B+
Outrage made this Pokemon so much more viable. It has the same coverage as Druddigon (but stronger) and gives him big competition with its Choice Band set. Dragon Dance and Rock Polish are other options to fare a bit better against offense and Ice Fang to destroy Gligar is cute n_n
This only needs Rock Head now

 

[Molk]

Alrighty, removed Mega Houndoom from the viability rankings since it's BL2 now.

I'm gonna implement the rest of the changes tommorow most likely :]

 

[Molk]

Alrighty, did some minor updates today :]

Updates

Amoonguss down to B rank
Tyrantrum up to B+ rank

Still kinda unsure on say Combusken and Mega Pidgeot :x

EDIT: added bronzong to A-

 

[The Leprechaun]

For me, pidgeot is 100% deserving of A+ rank.

Pidgeit is a Mon with blistering speed, massive special attack, a base 110 stab move with 30% chance to confuse, a great coverage move, momentum in u-turn, recovery in roost and can even run a decent offensive defog set. To get some idea of its power, when compared to specs meloetta, one of the most threatening mons in the tier and another a+ mon, bird has a very similar damage output.

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 186-219 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 219-258 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now pidgeot is probably considered an offensive check because of its really great speed but the fact that its only a little weaker than one of the best wall breakers is crazy. The other thing that should be considered is the confuse chance. While this shouldn't normally be considered when looking at hurricane, the fact that its 100% accurate for this mon means that the confusion actually happens very often. 30% burn chance on scald is enough for it to completely replace surf as the standard water move and rightly so. This confusion chance help out so ofteb when trying to break through walls it's pretty disgusting, especially against defensive teams where bird will get a large number of chances to spam its move and therefore more opportunity for hax. Of course there are a couple of mons which can tank bith offensive moves, pigeon has the room to run HP grass as only hurricane and heat wave are really essential for its success.

The fact that it has a good matchup against both offense and defense makes a hugenthreat to be considered and I wouldn't even be opposed to this mon being s rank.

 

[Ajna]

Im nominating Probopass for at least D or C-. Before you jump to conclusions look at these calcs of some of ru's top threats.

Damage Calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 103-122 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 59-69 (18.2 - 21.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 122-146 (37.6 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 58-69 (17.9 - 21.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 25-29 (7.7 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 24-29 (7.4 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever

(I provided an example set because Probopass isn't really used)
Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch/Pain Split/Toxic
- Power Gem/Flash Cannon
- Toxic/Pain Split

Ok so Probopass isn't going to ever be a top tier mon because of its huge weaknesses and being in some ways being outclassed by the likes of Bronzong , but nonetheless it does its job pretty well. It checks a lot of the tiers top special attackers(as shown in the calcs) as well as being a nice fletch counter. The moves you run depend on what you need. If you need Probo to check wallbreakers like Dragalge throughout the match and don't want to run wish support, pain split is your choice. If you want Probo to be able to slowly wear down special attackers, you want toxic. And lastly, the choice of flash cannon or power gem depends on your needs. Personally I'm liking power gem just because it can almost always ohko moltres while flash cannon doesn't really ohko anything. Volt switch is what makes Probopass actually halfway decent because it gains momentum for your team. It can switch into a threat and then get a nice, slow volt switch into something that can ko the threat which is a great luxury to have. Probopass also pairs very well with Gligar making a volt turn core that can put up, and get rid of hazards. Just remember, fear Probo.

 

[Ares]

Yah, gotta add onto the nom above, I used Probopass for the longest time on my RU Conquest team. And it makes a fantastic Fletch counter, and alright Moltres check, on top of the utility that it can provide by being a pivot, setting up rocks, or toxicing important things that want to come in on Probopass and might generally be a nuisance for your team. It also checks / counters some of the new top threats like Pidgeot and Draglage like Sowwy pointed out. I gotta say that this mon is not to be over looked in a Volt Turn core cause it can free up a rocks slot and provides a special wall / pivot to the team.

 

[Holiday]

I decided to try out Probopass after seeing it on here. It's definitely worthy of at least C- tbh. It's incredibly good at setting up rocks, and while it has 2 x4 weaknesses to rather common typing, this typing allows it to safely switch in repeatedly to some of the strongest attacks in the tier. Slow Volt Switch is a plus, as it lets you get switch priority the majority of the time. Everything already said by Mont and Sowwy is accurate and proves how reliable Probopass is. Also if you're cheeky run that level 2 toxic/pain split/recycle/rocks set ;-;

 

[trc]

hi there i think jelliicent is too low in c- :( i decided to use it on stall after spirit and double01 said it could check other stalls while also checking lo moltres which my team was weak to and it did both :O so i used it and it did very well :) its main advantage over slowking as a lo moltres check is its ability to check other stalls with fast taunts and wows which i needed both of in one slot. this is the set i used.

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

enough speed for 12 speed mola (it was in usage stat spreads :[) and still avoids the 2hko from lo molt after sr with lefties. i used to have 196hp 252 spdef+ but this offers marginally more special bulk and much more physical bulk. it works i swear! lets put it in c+ imo, it's not bad i promise! also now i have to use 60 speed jelli to taunt all u fuckers >:((( but it's ok most of you will still think it's ass ^_^ and not use it :O

edit: it checks dragalge too! it isn't even 2hkoed by anything! wow!
edit2: ok by that i mean you're faster so you can recover before it koes u with a second dmeteor. even if it poisons with sludge first time then dmeteors second u still win cause u can spam recover before it does anything. when paired with bronzong it's a bit easier. in short: jelli beats non fast dragalge (although rip if fast but spirit says that sux balls)

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Sorry for not contributing much, but was Tyrantrum's ranking considered without Outrage?

Because with Outrage...and a Band...and being a great Moltres switch-in

You basically have a better Druddigon. With its normal ability you have AWESOME options like Poison, Ice, Thunder(Pink Fish) or Fire Fang to hit switchins which resist the rock/dragon STAB combination. Also as soon as its hidden ability is released, let the head smash destroyer claim its supreme power in this metagame.

What I am trying to say is: Whatever ranking it is now, Outrage makes it much stronger, without a doubt(can't wait til Head Smash Tyrantrum makes everyone cry)

 

[Holiday]

Hey. I'd like to nominate Mega Audino from B to B+ or A-

To put it lightly, Mega Audino is fat. Physically defensive spreads avoid 3HKO's from Mega Sharpedo and Mega Lopunny, while SpDef spreads (hella rare) avoid 3HKO's from Moltres and Mega Pidgeot. The Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk/D-Gleam|Hyper Voice|Fire Blast set is an AMAZING win condition on semi stal and full stall, and it is a solid wish passer on balance. Mega Audino can also hold off on the Mega and stay as Audino, pivoting with its already solid bulk and switching out with Regenerator HP boosts. It is an amazingly bulky Pokemon that deserves a higher rank than what it has.

 

[aVocado]

Sorry for not contributing much, but was Tyrantrum's ranking considered without Outrage?

Because with Outrage...and a Band...and being a great Moltres switch-in

You basically have a better Druddigon. With its normal ability you have AWESOME options like Poison, Ice, Thunder(Pink Fish) or Fire Fang to hit switchins which resist the rock/dragon STAB combination. Also as soon as its hidden ability is released, let the head smash destroyer claim its supreme power in this metagame.

What I am trying to say is: Whatever ranking it is now, Outrage makes it much stronger, without a doubt(can't wait til Head Smash Tyrantrum makes everyone cry)

Well if you would check the first page you'd see that it's B+ lol

also Stone Edge hits fairies (except whimsicott) harder than poison fang does.