Project Victim of the Week

First off, check or counter?
Also, it's a really shaky check anyways. Just FYI, but shed skin only has a 30% chance to remove status each turn, and even at +6, knock off doesn't even OHKO. This guy is just way too reliant on luck to actually be able to check sableye, and iirc, in the definition for counter, it says "in the worst case scenario", and relying on a slim 30% chance of a burn going away, to check something isn't exactly reliable. Definitely not a counter, maybe check at best.

+6 252+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 223-264 (73.3 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I hope I calced correctly :]

Edit:
lbq you can also use the link silver97 provided, and then use Ctrl + F to find the pokemon you want, click on it's link, and then click and drag the picture into your post.
Largely a hard check to a counter. Having tested it, it doesn't matter how low the activation chance is: It will happen and Sableye just can't damage it irregardless of burn (doing only 6% due to leftovers).
 
Yeah obviously eventually you will get the burn, but you get whittled down a lot in the process of getting to +6, and sableye can just w-o-w you again once the burn has been activated.
 
Yeah obviously eventually you will get the burn, but you get whittled down a lot in the process of getting to +6, and sableye can just w-o-w you again once the burn has been activated.
Scrafty still has a huge advantage in the 1v1 matchup, and once it gets to +6 there isn't much Sableye can really do to stop it besides praying that Shed Skin takes ten turns to activate each time. And once Sableye is gone, you're going to be in huge trouble unless you have something like Unaware Clefable or Talonflame.
 

alexwolf

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New rule that i thought was obvious but apparently isn't:

Only post sets viable in OU. Niche Pokemon such as regular Heracross and Meloetta are good to go, useless crap such as Pyroar and Shedinja aren't. The viability ranking thread is your best friend, so if something isn't ranked there, 95% of the time it's not worth posting here.

Added to the OP. Now time for my own contribution:

Choice Band Heracross - Counter

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Relevant calcs:
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 195-229 (64.1 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 289-342 (95 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
  • 0 SpA Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 78-93 (25.9 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
  • +1 0 SpA Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 118-139 (39.2 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
CB Heracross is also a very useful Mega Slowbro check and a decent hard hitter in general
 
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looiiyut

GIOVANE AUTISMOTTA
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Reserving Mega Camerupt

Mega Camerupt - Check



Camerupt-Mega
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Ancient Power
- Stealth Rock/wow/yawn/toxic

Mega camerupt can come in all mega sableye moves bar CM and OhKOed with earth power or fire blast.
The evs spread may seems unusual but I'm testing this "volcano" in a balance team with force palm toxic orb breloom and rest-talk thunder wave Gyarados and with 88 evs in speed he can outspeed 30 base speed pokemon (slowbro and amoongus) and stuff such as paralyzed greninja or weavile.

252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 246-291 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 202-238 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Reserving mega lopunny

Mega Lopunny - Check



Lopunny @ Lopunnyite
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick/Drain Punch
- Return
- Fake out/Substitute/Healing wish
- Ice Punch

Great check to mega sableye thanks to his new ability. Mega Lopunny can come in all moves bar wow and OhKOed sableye with fake out+HJK.
High Jump Kick is a staple for the set and is an absolute nuke. Return is the secondary STAB move that nails Fighting-resistant Pokemon. Ice Punch hits Gliscor, lando as well as Dragon-types hard and Substitute can be used to avoid status moves or take advantage of an opponent's switch.

252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 270-320 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Lopunny Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 42-51 (13.8 - 16.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
I was going to reserve this for a second one, but seeing as you have already done it, Lopunny is a counter with either Heal Bell or Facade. Burned HJK also has a chance to 2hko. So I would say it's a counter.
 

looiiyut

GIOVANE AUTISMOTTA
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I was going to reserve this for a second one, but seeing as you have already done it, Lopunny is a counter with either Heal Bell or Facade. Burned HJK also has a chance to 2hko. So I would say it's a counter.
Yes, with heal bell lopunny is a counter but with the standard set is a check because if you come in a wow sableye can stall out with recover.
Sub/heal bell/ drain punch or hjk/ return is a good set as counter.

I think you can reserve the same pokemon with a different set.
 
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Crawdaunt - Counter


Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EV's: 252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Aqua Jet
-Crabhammer
-Knock Off

This is really all you need to know.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability burned Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 182-214 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you go to +4 instead, you have a chance to OHKO outright, or guranteed on the second hit after he uses recover . Crawdaunt is simply in a different league than using things like SD bisharp/garchomp etc, as while they might leave sablye at 60-70% on the turn they burn to death, The crab will outright kill him while conveniently resisting its attacks.

If the sablye tries to speed up crawdaunt's death by attacking it... it will lack the healing neccesary to live, while not actually KOing the thing (even with burn damage on the turn sablye dies), which still gets it a turn to after. If he gets cute with priority recoverHe leaves himself in range of aqua jet due to normal forms lower defense.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability burned Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 253-299 (83.2 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


While taking 3-4 burn and LO will leave crawdaunt a washed up mess, it will kill sablye, and it will deny enemy momentum after, as whatever comes in must attack it or risk being blown up as well.

Despite it's enormous power. You don't see it on teams often due to it's low speed delegating it to a wall breaker role. In it's defense, it can outspeed what it needs to... pokemon like mandibuzz and skarmory. Nice for teams that want to chase physical walls, special walls, pokemon that aren't really walls but think that will-o wisp or screens qualifies them as such. And should it have support from a paraphaser or sticky webs, the world will end. "resistant" bulky attackers like Azumarill can't even safely switch into it.
 
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Just saying, but in your calc, you have "guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery", however, note that mega sableye cannot hold leftovers, only normal sableye can.
 

Hogg

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Hogg typically Wendesday before making a second one.
Here's my second entry:

COUNTER

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

Oh, hey, it's one of the best Greninja counters in the game. What's it doing here?

Well, the answer is simple: thanks to Trace and Normal typing, Sableye just can't touch it. You're immune to Shadow Ball and pick up Magic Bounce when switching in thanks to Trace. When possible, try to switch it in on a WoW, so that you can bounce it back and force the burn on Sableye. Your moves will barely scratch Sableye, but he literally cannot touch you, and will be worn down by his own burns and your attacks if he decides (for some odd reason) to stay in.

If you wanted to have P2 specifically counter Sableye, then run Psych Up in place of Thunder Wave. Psych Up actually had some use when GeoPass was everywhere on the ladder (get in on Whimsicott so that you can trace Prankster, so that you can Psych Up for SpDf boosts before Espeon has a chance to hit you), but right now it's gimmicky, and T-Wave is the better option for neutering Greninja. Still, if you really want a way to punish a Sableye who decides to stay in against you and boost up, Psych Up is there. (But it's unnecessary - P2 will always win one-on-one against Shadow Ball MSable even without it.)
 
Just wondering, but if P2 switches in on a will o wisp after tracing magic bounce, won't the burn be reflect back at sableye, and then his magic bounce will reflect it back at you?
Or will the burn be reflect infinitely, or will no one just be affected?
EDIT: Replay proof would be nice :]
 

Hogg

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Just wondering, but if P2 switches in on a will o wisp after tracing magic bounce, won't the burn be reflect back at sableye, and then his magic bounce will reflect it back at you?
No, Magic Bounce doesn't protect you from burns reflected by Magic Bounce or sent over by Synchronize.
 
Counter:

Mega Ampharos

ampheh.png





Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest

This is an innovative Mega Sableye counter. Some people like mega gyarados since it gets mold breaker taunt, but ampharos can use mold breaker toxic to wear down sableye.(Mold breaker negates magic bounce for those who don't know) It also has rest to heal up if sableye burns you. Although Ampharos's viability is questionable, it has a niche on stall teams, and I've been having success with it. Here are some calcs:

0 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 51-61 (13.3 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO

0 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Thunderbolt does decent damage to it.
 

Attachments

silver97

GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
Counter:

Mega Ampharos

View attachment 31572


Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest

This is an innovative Mega Sableye counter. Some people like mega gyarados since it gets mold breaker taunt, but ampharos can use mold breaker toxic to wear down sableye.(Mold breaker negates magic bounce for those who don't know) It also has rest to heal up if sableye burns you. Although Ampharos's viability is questionable, it has a niche on stall teams, and I've been having success with it. Here are some calcs:

0 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 51-61 (13.3 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO

0 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Thunderbolt does decent damage to it.
Alexwolf said before that the set/mons have to be viable in the ou metà. i'm not totally sure that we can call this viable since you're taking an already suboptimal mon and giving it a set specifically created for mega sableye that will struggle to fit on any team. However this can be considered an extremely niche set but not unviable, so i don't know, just want to point this out.
 
Alexwolf said before that the set/mons have to be viable in the ou metà. i'm not totally sure that we can call this viable since you're taking an already suboptimal mon and giving it a set specifically created for mega sableye that will struggle to fit on any team. However this can be considered an extremely niche set but not unviable, so i don't know, just want to point this out.
I guess you are right a bit, but the set isn't specifically made for sableye, toxic hits a lot of mons that switch into ampharos. Also, I wouldn't say it is not viable, I have gotten high on the ladder using this set.
 
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Yeah the set is pretty niche, but I found it very creative and interesting. I agree that ampharos is suboptimal, since it has sort of lots of niche on rain teams due to mega swampert being a more popular rain mega.
 
wow how did no one do this yet

COUNTER



zard x has already been mentioned but his br0 is just as effective at stealing momentum away from sableye

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

Zard Y can actually switch in even if rocks are up to anything M-Sableye wants to do, and chase it out w/ Roost + Fire Blast.

Fire Blast OHKOs an unboosted Sableye, while maintaining the 2HKO up to +2. Flamethrower also works, as it has a 31% chance to OHKO unboosted Sableye and a 33% chance to 2HKO +2 Sableye. Defensively, Sableye needs +2 to have a marginal chance of doing over 50% per hit, which means Zard can come in safely on rocks, Roost up or spam fire STAB accordingly, and still win.

That's all pretty good & standard for NukeZard. The speed is for Jolly Pinsir & Hera pre-evo, since it'd be pretty dumb to have your Zard Y lose to either one of them before they m-evo.

My only glitch w/ using Zard Y vs. Sableye is that Sableye is 9 times out of 10 gonna be paired w/ other stallfegs like Chansey, SpDef Talonflame [lol tele], something to soak up the Fire Blast & thus nothing is accomplished. So if you want to beat Sableye ALONG WITH its partners in Chansey, Quagsire, SpDef Talon, Heatran, you could try the less consistent physical Zard Y with Flare Blitz / Earthquake / Solarbeam / Roost. The only stallmon I can think of that doesn't get 2HKOd by Physical Zard Y but does by standard Special Nuke is Bold Cresselia. Aside from being a good lure, it has the minor niche over Zard X of dealing with Quagsire without resorting to Outrage, and disrupting rain more generally.
 
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Check

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt

Ok so spread might seem odd, but its custom tailored to dismantle stall/balance teams.
252 hp lets you create 101 subs so chansey can't break you.
Calm 88 lets you tank rotom-W hydropump with sub in tact. In addition 130 spa mons 80 base attacks. Ie heatran lava plume and megabro scald
168 def lets you live things like ferrothorn gyro ball also life orb latios psyshock.

Sub lets you avoid status and eases set up. CM lets you set up to break these stall mons.
Psyshock is stab and lets you win CM wars.
Tbolt is extra coverage to hit darks and steels.

Well Megaeye can only burn you, but burn is annoying so is SR so your only a check.

+6 0 SpA Meloetta Thunderbolt vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 71-84 (23.3 - 27.6%)
Kind of weak, but odds are you should get a crit or at least a a para.
+6 0 SpA Meloetta Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye on a critical hit: 423-498 (139.1 - 163.8%)

Also unlike other noms it can beat whole stall teams.
Zard Y gets laughed at by chansey, also most fairies get forced out by jirachi.

Good partners are things to beat offensive mons also heal bellers.
 

Aragorn the King

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Week 35:
Thanks for all the Sableye checks/counters. This week, we'll do Mega Metagross!


Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Hammer Arm
 

boltsandbombers

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Mega Slowbro as a Counter


Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam / Psychic

Mega Slowbro resists Metagross's STAB moves and has insane physical bulk to back it up. It does not even need defense investment to take on this 8 legged monster, allowing it to act as a powerful special tank. Slowbro has reliable recovery and can hit Metagross back with a STAB Scald or a super effective Fire Blast.

Calcs:

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Slowbro: 60-71 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO (lol nice try)

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Slowbro: 53-63 (13.4 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO (damage?)

You get it. Slowbro only has to fear the rare Thunder Punch.

252+ SpA Mega Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 286-338 (95 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
#fried

252+ SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 157-186 (52.1 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
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boltsandbombers reserved Megabro before I reserved this, but I felt the playstyles used were different enough to give it a whirl.

COUNTER

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 176 HP/252 Def/84 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock/Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Slack Off

While not being able to set up and sweep like Megabro can, regular Slowbro can take a different, more immediately offensive approach to beating Metagross. With the EVs listed, Fire Blast is a 2HKO, and Metagross virtually can't touch Slowbro due to Regenerator+Slack Off.

Calcs:
84 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 158-188 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
---
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 72-85 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
^Yes, that is its most damaging attack. Slowbro somehow resists every move in the standard Megagross set, and only takes around 25% from a neutral EQ.

And just for fun...

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 160-190 (42.6 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Slowbro is a badass.
 
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CHECK <not a hard counter as originally said; see below :( >


Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod -> Intimidate
EVs: 48 Def / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt / Protect
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The given speed EVs outspeed MegaMetagross of course, but also allow MegaMan to outspeed Greninja, Revenge Killer Alakazam, Garchomp, Dragonite, and Gyarados (even at +1 for the latter two). In general it can outspeed most non-scarfed threats in the meta. The spare EVs are invested in physical bulk to help Manectric better tank hits from Metagross and avoid death by hax.

Manectric can switch in on the indicated set and threaten a 31.3% chance of OHKO with Overheat. MegaMan really needs to be preemptively evolved to do his job, however, and if he switches in on Zen Headbutt he may need to consider Turning out to build up -1s on attack to get the kill since Zen Headbutt is a 2HKO. Switching in on any other move, however, allows MegaMan to 2HKO with an Overheat/Volt Switch combo.

I've thus slashed Protect, because if MegaMan isn't already Mega-Evolved, he is outsped by MegaMeta and risks getting killed. If you are going to lead with it or have a way to get it a free switch, however, it can do its job even with the outsped turn nailing it for tons of damage. Because of all these maybe's (the risk of hazards or chip damage or switching in on a ZHb, the problem of Overheat not being a clean OHKO, the necessity of being evolved), MegaMan is only a check.

The Timid nature is recommended to ensure MegaMan can continue to do its normal job on your team of being a VoltTurn harasser, Greninja check, and general speedy nuke, but a Modest nature gets that Overheat up to a 87.5% chance for the OHKO and might be worth it if you want MegaMan purely to make Metagross's life miserable.

Calcs:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 268-316 (89 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Manectric: 142-168 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Manectric: 80-95 (28.4 - 33.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Manectric: 119-141 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Manectric: 90-106 (32 - 37.7%) -- 93% chance to 3HKO


and just for good measure:
-1 252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Mega Manectric: 180-212 (64 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock - MegaMan can live and fish for that OHKO even under a worst case scenario that isn't in the listed st.
 
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Counter

Alomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature

-Scald
-Wish
-Protect
-Toxic / Knock off

Relevant Calcs:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 171-202 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 143-169 (27 - 31.9%) -- 40% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 97-114 (18.3 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 54-64 (10.2 - 12%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Factor in that you'll be using protect / wish to regain health (and additional leftovers recovery) and there's literally no way that Metagross can KO you.

Meanwhile:
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 40-48 (13.2 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO

Scald does laughable damage but the burn chance isn't laughable, making Metagross even more ineffectual as well as racking up more damage.

Toxic/Knock off is used to screw with the inevitable switch in.

EDIT: I should add that I did manually edit regular Metagross' stats to be the same as Mega's, since the damage calculator doesn't seem to have the new Megas on there yet, although there probably is a way to do it seeing as others have
 

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