Whups. Mah bad. I wasn't paying attention.
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Monotype Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Anttya
- Start date
- Status
Spiritomb (Dark) for D rank, and (Ghost) for C rank
Always (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP /30 Def /228 SDef
Careful nature
- Will-o-wisp
- Pursuit
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Provides a switch in to to opposing ghost pokemon, particularly gengar and chandelure, as well as things like melloetta and gallade. Also manages to absorb status, which will likely make it the only non-immune mon on a typical ghost team who can do so, especially if you find aegislash getting wisped easily. Can't be setup on in a normal situation by the likes of scizor, and can manhandle tyranitar most of the time, although it has to watch it if he's partnered with a megasablye of his own. With it's shiny new hidden ability, it can burn through substitutes, although like most ghost pokemon, it should steer clear of charizards. Pretty Much the only spirtomb worth using on dark teams other than blackglasses tomb.
The Man Who Was Thursday (Spiritomb) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Calm nature
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Hidden Power Fighting
A Spirtomb dedicated to fighting lesser stall mons, as without actual phasing or muscle, its ability to absorb status and unboosted hits will keep it going for a long time. HP fighting and shadowball hit pokemon that could try to setup on it for true damage, such as bisharp and tyranitar, achieving a deadlier form of its traditional wisp with the benefit of not caring about suprise lum or 75% accuracy. Does not like monos with access to defog (although greninja helps there) or going out without hazard support of its own.
Arakune (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP /8 Def /252 SDef
Careful nature
- Curse
- Will-o-wisp
- Rest
- Pursuit
A Spirtomb that addreses powercreep preventing a full rest cycle by curtailing opponets. If it ends up chasing the last stall mon the opponet needs to wear out a dark stall team, then it can unload curse, which will do at least stealth rock damage on a switch in, which becomes more or less terminal if it stays in and takes another curse (which should be 36% if you have hazards up on top of things, which is enough for the fantastic offensive pokemon dark packs) or running away after you use curse and taking a pursuit from spirtomb itself. Rest will probbably only be used if you are packing umbreon or run into a normal team... even with wish chansey, getting a free turn to heal a loppunny (esp with wisp on switch in) can be near impossible, and spirtomb can technically tank and suicide on a cm audino, and having a free turn to boost or at least sack something to remove it permenatnly does wonders for dark in that match up.
Spiritomb (F) @ BlackGlasses
Trait: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Sneak / Return
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Will-o-Wisp
Pursuit / Suckerpunch Mindgames!
In all honesty. mono attacker or near mono attacker gets good damage against many opponets, and can still be counted on to tank a hit when the time is right, unlike its brethren honchkrow and bisharp. Return was once an option for people looking to take out cheeky substitute users, but infiltator punishes them just as much.
Champ (Spiritomb)@ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Doubled utility against physical mons provides a near gurantee you won't be boosted on, and the reasonable special bulk of a crotomb allows yout to keep pressure should it really be needed against a horrendous last mon stallwar.
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The infamous "awful" way to use spirtomb, CroTomb has been known as an omnipresent threat to stall in lower tiers, but in any monotype match the first string types, particularly teams dark has a hard time with, it is just as lackluster as it is in present day UU and above tiers.
(Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP /8 Def /252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Memento
- Pursuit
- Foul Play
- Pain Split / Taunt
Dragon dance tyranitar, swords dance bisharp, crawdaunt the unspeakably violent, Scrafty. The potential of Memento is nearly endless for a dark team. Otherwise, he checks most (not all)of the pokemon he hits on his monoattacking set, and can still heal in a pinch with painsplit which also helpfully lowers most things into range of foul play, pursuit, or whatever memento brings in. Outslowing recover/roost users helps painsplit even more.
Spirtomb should only really be given thought it if you are comfortable with your team's general performance and want to counter something specific. For Dark teams, this probbably means stall ,status inducers, fighting types, and bulky offense. For Ghost, this means opposing ghosts, mellotta, Back up plans to put mildly tanky pokemon into KO range of chandelure/boosting aegislash if spikes frosslass isn't your cup of tea, and fighting types prone to knock off (gallade, assault vest conkuldur). His abilities let him hit a wider range of physical pokemon or help him with stall, although that is basically code for (normal) in the context of monotype. In fairness, normal has a wide range of pokemon that both types really hate, and the right spirtomb can singlehandedly go to town on nearly anything normal can come up with.Also infiltrator wisp and infiltrator foul play is a huge check to mega or regular sub+dragon dance gyarados.
Always (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP /30 Def /228 SDef
Careful nature
- Will-o-wisp
- Pursuit
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Provides a switch in to to opposing ghost pokemon, particularly gengar and chandelure, as well as things like melloetta and gallade. Also manages to absorb status, which will likely make it the only non-immune mon on a typical ghost team who can do so, especially if you find aegislash getting wisped easily. Can't be setup on in a normal situation by the likes of scizor, and can manhandle tyranitar most of the time, although it has to watch it if he's partnered with a megasablye of his own. With it's shiny new hidden ability, it can burn through substitutes, although like most ghost pokemon, it should steer clear of charizards. Pretty Much the only spirtomb worth using on dark teams other than blackglasses tomb.
The Man Who Was Thursday (Spiritomb) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Calm nature
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Hidden Power Fighting
A Spirtomb dedicated to fighting lesser stall mons, as without actual phasing or muscle, its ability to absorb status and unboosted hits will keep it going for a long time. HP fighting and shadowball hit pokemon that could try to setup on it for true damage, such as bisharp and tyranitar, achieving a deadlier form of its traditional wisp with the benefit of not caring about suprise lum or 75% accuracy. Does not like monos with access to defog (although greninja helps there) or going out without hazard support of its own.
Arakune (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP /8 Def /252 SDef
Careful nature
- Curse
- Will-o-wisp
- Rest
- Pursuit
A Spirtomb that addreses powercreep preventing a full rest cycle by curtailing opponets. If it ends up chasing the last stall mon the opponet needs to wear out a dark stall team, then it can unload curse, which will do at least stealth rock damage on a switch in, which becomes more or less terminal if it stays in and takes another curse (which should be 36% if you have hazards up on top of things, which is enough for the fantastic offensive pokemon dark packs) or running away after you use curse and taking a pursuit from spirtomb itself. Rest will probbably only be used if you are packing umbreon or run into a normal team... even with wish chansey, getting a free turn to heal a loppunny (esp with wisp on switch in) can be near impossible, and spirtomb can technically tank and suicide on a cm audino, and having a free turn to boost or at least sack something to remove it permenatnly does wonders for dark in that match up.
Spiritomb (F) @ BlackGlasses
Trait: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Sneak / Return
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Will-o-Wisp
Pursuit / Suckerpunch Mindgames!
In all honesty. mono attacker or near mono attacker gets good damage against many opponets, and can still be counted on to tank a hit when the time is right, unlike its brethren honchkrow and bisharp. Return was once an option for people looking to take out cheeky substitute users, but infiltator punishes them just as much.
Champ (Spiritomb)@ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Doubled utility against physical mons provides a near gurantee you won't be boosted on, and the reasonable special bulk of a crotomb allows yout to keep pressure should it really be needed against a horrendous last mon stallwar.
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The infamous "awful" way to use spirtomb, CroTomb has been known as an omnipresent threat to stall in lower tiers, but in any monotype match the first string types, particularly teams dark has a hard time with, it is just as lackluster as it is in present day UU and above tiers.
(Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP /8 Def /252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Memento
- Pursuit
- Foul Play
- Pain Split / Taunt
Dragon dance tyranitar, swords dance bisharp, crawdaunt the unspeakably violent, Scrafty. The potential of Memento is nearly endless for a dark team. Otherwise, he checks most (not all)of the pokemon he hits on his monoattacking set, and can still heal in a pinch with painsplit which also helpfully lowers most things into range of foul play, pursuit, or whatever memento brings in. Outslowing recover/roost users helps painsplit even more.
Spirtomb should only really be given thought it if you are comfortable with your team's general performance and want to counter something specific. For Dark teams, this probbably means stall ,status inducers, fighting types, and bulky offense. For Ghost, this means opposing ghosts, mellotta, Back up plans to put mildly tanky pokemon into KO range of chandelure/boosting aegislash if spikes frosslass isn't your cup of tea, and fighting types prone to knock off (gallade, assault vest conkuldur). His abilities let him hit a wider range of physical pokemon or help him with stall, although that is basically code for (normal) in the context of monotype. In fairness, normal has a wide range of pokemon that both types really hate, and the right spirtomb can singlehandedly go to town on nearly anything normal can come up with.Also infiltrator wisp and infiltrator foul play is a huge check to mega or regular sub+dragon dance gyarados.
Updated. Anttya confirmed for nub^2
Will update the actual list today since there's a good amount
Right, so thank you Dirpz for helping me procrastinate! But, yeah. I like doing this type of stuff.
Mega Beedrill(Bug) for B Rank
Hives(Beedrill)(M)@Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm or Sniper(it doesn't really matter) (Adaptability after Mega Evolving)
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Protect
-U-Turn
-Poison Jab
-Drill Run/Knock Off
This set is Mega Beedrill's best and only viable set as it lets Beedrill go super saiyan without worry. Protect allows this to happen. Poison Jab is your run-of-the-mill STAB move which also takes advantage of Adaptability. This makes Mega Beedrill's ginormous 150 Attack seem even bigger. Drill Run is for coverage. Knock Off is kinda basic and doesn't provide any additional coverage, but it still does its job of item-reliant Pokemon. The main thing here is U-Turn though. U-Turn takes advantage of Adaptability and also keeps momentum going in the right hands.
There are a few other options that are sorta viable, just not viable enough to be on that moveset. Swords Dance is a thing. Except you'd either have to force a switch, or you absolutely KNOW that you're not gonna die. Fell Stinger is another option. You can finish a Pokemon off and get a sort of stronger Moxie boost. X Scissor is an option if you want even more power, but it leaves no coverage for you. If you can predict a switch, Substitute might be able to help a bit. Beedrill has access to Roost, which won't do you much good to be honest since Mega Beedrill is frailer than a shriveled Sunkern.
With 150 Attack and 145 Speed, Mega Beedrill is a true sweeper. However, because of Mega Beedrill's frailty, priority absolutely wrecks Mega Beedrill. not to mention, it's completely useless against Steel. Steel seems to be the kryptonite of a lot of good Bug types. Skarmory completely walls Mega Beedrill, and it can't U-Turn constantly because it has Bug's Stealth Rock weakness. It also faces incredibly fierce competition from Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Scizor. Mega Heracross is great with Sticky Web support, but Mega Beedrill doesn't need Sticky Web to be good. Mega Pinsir is strong and also has priority and actual bulk, so I consider it better than Mega Beedrill. Mega Scizor also has lots of bulk, power, and priority. Mega Beedrill has the policy of, kill or be killed. So, if you play right, Mega Beedrill can work out great for you. Thanks to great sweeping capabilities and bulk that matches a squashed Surskit, Mega Beedrill gets B Rank.
Mega Beedrill(Bug) for B Rank
Hives(Beedrill)(M)@Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm or Sniper(it doesn't really matter) (Adaptability after Mega Evolving)
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Protect
-U-Turn
-Poison Jab
-Drill Run/Knock Off
This set is Mega Beedrill's best and only viable set as it lets Beedrill go super saiyan without worry. Protect allows this to happen. Poison Jab is your run-of-the-mill STAB move which also takes advantage of Adaptability. This makes Mega Beedrill's ginormous 150 Attack seem even bigger. Drill Run is for coverage. Knock Off is kinda basic and doesn't provide any additional coverage, but it still does its job of item-reliant Pokemon. The main thing here is U-Turn though. U-Turn takes advantage of Adaptability and also keeps momentum going in the right hands.
There are a few other options that are sorta viable, just not viable enough to be on that moveset. Swords Dance is a thing. Except you'd either have to force a switch, or you absolutely KNOW that you're not gonna die. Fell Stinger is another option. You can finish a Pokemon off and get a sort of stronger Moxie boost. X Scissor is an option if you want even more power, but it leaves no coverage for you. If you can predict a switch, Substitute might be able to help a bit. Beedrill has access to Roost, which won't do you much good to be honest since Mega Beedrill is frailer than a shriveled Sunkern.
With 150 Attack and 145 Speed, Mega Beedrill is a true sweeper. However, because of Mega Beedrill's frailty, priority absolutely wrecks Mega Beedrill. not to mention, it's completely useless against Steel. Steel seems to be the kryptonite of a lot of good Bug types. Skarmory completely walls Mega Beedrill, and it can't U-Turn constantly because it has Bug's Stealth Rock weakness. It also faces incredibly fierce competition from Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Scizor. Mega Heracross is great with Sticky Web support, but Mega Beedrill doesn't need Sticky Web to be good. Mega Pinsir is strong and also has priority and actual bulk, so I consider it better than Mega Beedrill. Mega Scizor also has lots of bulk, power, and priority. Mega Beedrill has the policy of, kill or be killed. So, if you play right, Mega Beedrill can work out great for you. Thanks to great sweeping capabilities and bulk that matches a squashed Surskit, Mega Beedrill gets B Rank.
Walrein for (Ice) D rank
Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 232 HP / 220 Def / 32 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Surf / Blizzard / Super Fang
Just look at this thing in %health slices.LET'S SAY you send him out right after an icy rock abonasnow and begin that sub protect cycle.
-25+12+12-25+12+12-25+12+12-25+12+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-can't sub.
At 24 turns, or even 19 with stealth rock damage or a little kiss from an enemy special wall, he can outright drain the PP of an enemy mon using an attack like stone edge, or close combat, especially if it is the only one they get for that type. Of course that assumes he dosen't even poison them, as he will get a ton of toxic damage on top of all that and some hail damage on whatever stares him down first. 232 is ideal for leftovers and thus hail recovery.
However the cost of his true potential is high. Toxic Spikes Cloyster and Icy rock abomnasnow are certainly not very respectable pokemon for an ice mono. An alternate set with 56 speed EVS, can roar skarmory trying to phase him out, but... ice vs flying to begin with lol. Also outpseeding bisharp and other univensted things at base 70 makes the substitute work more problemic.
Walrein @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power Fire
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Super Fang
Deals with scizor for ice teams, and can knock volcarona and charizard Y for a loop as well. Effective against specific revenge killers that will try to come out every time kyurem-w or mamoswine gets a KO.
Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 232 HP / 8 Def / 208 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Ice Beam / Surf / Super Fang
- Encore
- Protect
More conventional set that uniquely resists fire attacks rather than being neutral to them like kyurem-w or mamoswine. Being able to encore base 70s is a plus, and protect eases prediction in addition to healing you just a tad on annoying mons. Dosen't detract from partners needed to support it.
Not mentioning curse or stockpile because if you love stall that much you're probbably using the ice body. Walrein is a potentially massive wall even with its favorite source of healing nerfed, but the massive alterations to a team required to sustain it leads most people to use it's inferior set that is much more prone to draining momentum than lapras or articuno. It dosen't help with the most commonly used of ice's weaknesses by any stretch of the imagination, and can be broken by the same close combats that the rest of an ice team fears as well as continued neutral hits due to his laughable healing.
Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 232 HP / 220 Def / 32 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Surf / Blizzard / Super Fang
Just look at this thing in %health slices.LET'S SAY you send him out right after an icy rock abonasnow and begin that sub protect cycle.
-25+12+12-25+12+12-25+12+12-25+12+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-can't sub.
At 24 turns, or even 19 with stealth rock damage or a little kiss from an enemy special wall, he can outright drain the PP of an enemy mon using an attack like stone edge, or close combat, especially if it is the only one they get for that type. Of course that assumes he dosen't even poison them, as he will get a ton of toxic damage on top of all that and some hail damage on whatever stares him down first. 232 is ideal for leftovers and thus hail recovery.
However the cost of his true potential is high. Toxic Spikes Cloyster and Icy rock abomnasnow are certainly not very respectable pokemon for an ice mono. An alternate set with 56 speed EVS, can roar skarmory trying to phase him out, but... ice vs flying to begin with lol. Also outpseeding bisharp and other univensted things at base 70 makes the substitute work more problemic.
Walrein @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power Fire
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Super Fang
Deals with scizor for ice teams, and can knock volcarona and charizard Y for a loop as well. Effective against specific revenge killers that will try to come out every time kyurem-w or mamoswine gets a KO.
Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 232 HP / 8 Def / 208 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Ice Beam / Surf / Super Fang
- Encore
- Protect
More conventional set that uniquely resists fire attacks rather than being neutral to them like kyurem-w or mamoswine. Being able to encore base 70s is a plus, and protect eases prediction in addition to healing you just a tad on annoying mons. Dosen't detract from partners needed to support it.
Not mentioning curse or stockpile because if you love stall that much you're probbably using the ice body. Walrein is a potentially massive wall even with its favorite source of healing nerfed, but the massive alterations to a team required to sustain it leads most people to use it's inferior set that is much more prone to draining momentum than lapras or articuno. It dosen't help with the most commonly used of ice's weaknesses by any stretch of the imagination, and can be broken by the same close combats that the rest of an ice team fears as well as continued neutral hits due to his laughable healing.
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Rotom-Heat for A rank on Fire
Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split / Rest
Your typical UU defensive Rotom, it's particularly useful on fire thanks to levitate, which allows it to dodge ground moves without the use of an Air Balloon. WoW cripples physical attackers, Overheat deals a large amount of damage even without investment, Volt Switch is to gain momentum, and Pain Split is useful for recovering HP while also reducing the opponent's. One must be careful while using Pain Split though, as if the opponent predicts it by switching into something with low HP, it won't serve as useful recovery. This is why Resto-Chesto sets are viable as well, but you are sacrificing the Leftovers recovery, as well as consistency.
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Trick
The offensive scarf set, I don't particularly recommend it on Fire, as there are better special attackers and scarf users respectively. On the other hand, it's good for crippling stall Pokemon, so it has its viability. It hits hard thanks to its full investment into Special Attack. It does also take down water monotypes pretty nicely, and can help quite a bit against flying.
The main reason Rotom should be A rank is due to its ability to cover fire's weakness of ground, and every monotype has at least one user of Earthquake.
Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split / Rest
Your typical UU defensive Rotom, it's particularly useful on fire thanks to levitate, which allows it to dodge ground moves without the use of an Air Balloon. WoW cripples physical attackers, Overheat deals a large amount of damage even without investment, Volt Switch is to gain momentum, and Pain Split is useful for recovering HP while also reducing the opponent's. One must be careful while using Pain Split though, as if the opponent predicts it by switching into something with low HP, it won't serve as useful recovery. This is why Resto-Chesto sets are viable as well, but you are sacrificing the Leftovers recovery, as well as consistency.
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Trick
The offensive scarf set, I don't particularly recommend it on Fire, as there are better special attackers and scarf users respectively. On the other hand, it's good for crippling stall Pokemon, so it has its viability. It hits hard thanks to its full investment into Special Attack. It does also take down water monotypes pretty nicely, and can help quite a bit against flying.
The main reason Rotom should be A rank is due to its ability to cover fire's weakness of ground, and every monotype has at least one user of Earthquake.
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Anttyaz said:
I don't agree with your ranking of Rotom-Wash. You say Lanturn is "almost better in every way" but this just isn't true.
Lanturn in monotype has been very overhyped with Rotom-wash under-hyped due to volt absorb, but the truth is they are both very good Pokemon.
Rotom has quite a few things over Lanturn, being Levitate (allowing it to only have one weakness), actual offensive presence, Will-o-Wisp, and recovery in Pain Split. Having Lanturn as a wall along with Tentacruel or Empoleon as hazard removal puts a large part of your defensive team with a ground weakness, letting Pokemon like sand rush Excadrill and Landorus-I put a huge dent in your team and losing your momentum. This usually forces you to use a very physically bulky wall along with lanturn to take earthquakes, like Slowbro or Suicune, but these Pokemon are still weak to Landorus-I. You would be surprised at how easily you can make your water team weak to ground moves.
I have a lot of experience with water teams, and recently I have been using Rotom over Lanturn, and to be honest I am liking Rotom a lot better; the only thing that I'm missing being heal bell, which I can do without from the other advantages Rotom has. Rotom can be used excellently with Tentacruel or Empoleon as together they have very good resistances.
Rotom can also run a variety of sets compared to Lanturn, and I noticed that most people expect a trick scarf set for some reason, and are dented by defensive Rotom, while Lanturn is pretty much stuck using the same set with the same 3 moves and the only difference being either Thunder-wave or Toxic. Also, Rotom can use a screens set like you said.
Going back to the offensive presence, Lanturn is kind of destroyed by things with substitute, while Rotom can actually break the majority of substitutes.
Rotom is also a lot more durable due to the fact that it can easy gain back hp with pain split and its low hp, and also the fact that it only has one weakness that can be easily amended by Pokemon like Tentacruel or Empoleon, while Lanturn is stuck with only leftovers and no way to gain back hp besides rest.
Because of these reasons I think Rotom has the potential to be A rank, but I think B is the best fit.
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I agree w/ D rank since people only use it as a Scizor / Volcarona check.Walrein for (Ice) D rank
Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 232 HP / 220 Def / 32 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Surf / Blizzard / Super Fang
Just look at this thing in %health slices.LET'S SAY you send him out right after an icy rock abonasnow and begin that sub protect cycle.
-25+12+12-25+12+12-25+12+12-25+12+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-25+6+6-can't sub.
At 24 turns, or even 19 with stealth rock damage or a little kiss from an enemy special wall, he can outright drain the PP of an enemy mon using an attack like stone edge, or close combat, especially if it is the only one they get for that type. Of course that assumes he dosen't even poison them, as he will get a ton of toxic damage on top of all that and some hail damage on whatever stares him down first. 232 is ideal for leftovers and thus hail recovery.
However the cost of his true potential is high. Toxic Spikes Cloyster and Icy rock abomnasnow are certainly not very respectable pokemon for an ice mono. An alternate set with 56 speed EVS, can roar skarmory trying to phase him out, but... ice vs flying to begin with lol. Also outpseeding bisharp and other univensted things at base 70 makes the substitute work more problemic.
Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 232 HP / 8 Def / 208 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Ice Beam / Surf / Super Fang
- Encore
- Protect
More conventional set that uniquely resists fire attacks rather than being neutral to them like kyurem-w or mamoswine. Being able to encore base 70s is a plus, and protect eases prediction in addition to healing you just a tad on annoying mons. Dosen't detract from partners needed to support it.
Not mentioning curse or stockpile because if you love stall that much you're probbably using the ice body. Walrein is a potentially massive wall even with its favorite source of healing nerfed, but the massive alterations to a team required to sustain it leads most people to use it's inferior set that is much more prone to draining momentum than lapras or articuno. It dosen't help with the most commonly used of ice's weaknesses by any stretch of the imagination, and can be broken by the same close combats that the rest of an ice team fears as well as continued neutral hits due to his laughable healing.
Also, this set is why people run it in the first place. (Might've stolen it from a very good ice user but w/e)
Walrein @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power Fire
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Super Fang
Walrien is outclassed as an attacker, but its typing gives it a neutrality to Fire & Steel moves. This is extremely important since all of Ice's other attackers get 1KOed by a banded Bullet Punch from Scizor. Thick Fat also allows it to live & KO Quiver Dance Volcarona & a majority of other Fire Types if healthy. It also faces competition w/ Rotom as a Scizor check since Rotom gets Will-o-Wisp and a variety of other moves. (Lets it burn Mega Mawile, Volt Switch, etc)
Scizor
+6 252+ Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Walrein: 313-370 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Walrein Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 280-332 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lacks the 1HKO, but prevents it from Roosting away the damage and forces it to kill it. By then, Ice Shard can deal with it.
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Just a tiny, tiny detail, but you're missing 4 EVs on that. I'm assuming it goes into Def as well?
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Just another thing on the Mega Shark debate, the two most common sound-based moves (the ones that go through subs) are Sylveon Hyper Voice and Bug Buzz Volcarona/Genesect. Sharpedo can kill Sylveon with Poison Fang and Volc with Waterfall/Hydro Pump, but needs HP Fire to kill Genesect, which (I think) won't OHKO without investment, but I'm pretty sure Genesect can OHKO back with STAB Bug Buzz. Just another reason why Sub is sorta bad on MegaShark imo. I'll do some calcs and edit them on in a bit.CHOMP CHOMP
MEGA SHARPEDO FOR B RANK (DARK AND WATER)
Sharpedo is one of the lucky Pokemon to receive a Mega-forme in OR/AS, thankfully it's not that bad. Strong Jaw provides a nice boost to Sharpedo's already large Attack stat, it also can utilize Strong Jaw very well. Sharpedo has access to Crunch and Ice Fang, and even Poison Fang if you want a way to hit Azumarill, though it only 3HKOes most bulky Azumarill. Crunch Mega Sharpedo can pretty much OHKO/2HKO an entire Psychic team on its own. The only way to kill it is to hope the opponent stays in on Mega Gallade, but even Gallade can't take two hits, while Gallade only has access to Shadow Sneak as a viable option of priority, which Sharpedo just happens to resist. It doesn't only do work on Psychic, either. Crunch can 2HKO a lot of things that don't resist it. Politoed, Swampert, and other Bulky Water Types can't afford to switch into Crunch unless they want to get completely wrecked by Crunch. Also, Waterfall provides some good coverage to do some damage to Landorus-Therian (Lando-I is OHKOed) if you run Poison Fang over Ice Fang. You can also run Hidden Power [Fire] to force out physical walls like Scizor and Skarmory. The first slot is really up for grabs. Don't really see a reason to run Hydro Pump>HP Fire, since Hydro Pump just acts as another Water stab, while HP Fire actually hits physical walls that threaten Sharpedo for a lot of damage. Ice Fang, Poison Fang and Earthquake are all options in the first slot as well, I recommend Ice Fang or Poison Fang for Dark, and Earthquake if you're running water, because it hits grounded Electric types for hard damage. And last but not least, you can actually choose to run Substitute over Protect (not recommended), to catch things on the switch, while getting a speed boost too. However, it is very risky, so only use it it you really need it.
jaja gillz
Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature/ Naughty Nature
- Poison Fang/Hidden Power [Fire]/Ice Fang/Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Protect/Substitute
RESERVIN MEGA GALLADE PSYKEK
Also, I don't have too much time this weekend, wondering if I can get an extension on Mega Latias until Tuesday please? I can for sure have it done by then, I don't think I need to work for the first 3+ hours of school on Monday/Tuesday.
I don't get it... Sub on Mega Sharpedo is bad because it gets OHKOed by two moves that would OHKO it either way? Even without Substitute those moves would KO. Sub isn't for dodging sound based moves obviously, it's for taking advantage of switches, which because of Mega Sharpedo's threatening presence isn't going to be rare, thus allowing it to get two hits, which is enough to KO many threats after Stealth Rock.
Substitute is also really useful for preventing status like paralysis, toxic, burn, etc. With it, Sharpedo basically gets a free turn if timed correctly or even a Speed Boost boost if you haven't mega evolved yet if the opponent does go for a status move. So, for example, Mega Sharpedo can get past Mega Sableye if Sab goes for the WoW first (which it will).
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
Also, Substitute is also a viable alternative over Protect. Honestly, lots of players will just predict the Protect on the first turn that reg Sharpedo is out and switch out/set up. You can use that turn to set up a substitute and still get the +1 for speed. So substitute is viable on Sharpedo imo .3.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
Also, Substitute is also a viable alternative over Protect. Honestly, lots of players will just predict the Protect on the first turn that reg Sharpedo is out and switch out/set up. You can use that turn to set up a substitute and still get the +1 for speed. So substitute is viable on Sharpedo imo .3.
Sure, you can have an extension. Focusing during class
Yeah, I can see your reasoning behind it and it makes sense. I'd be happy to put it in B Rank
Switch on protect is basically letting him get a second boost in Speed, so I don't think a lot of people want to switch except if they have something to wall it for days. And Sub won't prevent them from stalling you for days, forcing you to switch. Meaning losing 25% of your life in the process.
What Chimp meant is sub is used when you come in after something else has died, and the opp predicts your Protect and goes into their revenge killer or something that can tank a hit. That said I'm not to keen on it, cos it kinda forces you to run Jolly/Naive which means you lose a lot of power and even then, you're still quite reliant on the opponent switching/going for a status move. I think it's one of those things which is great when it works out, but I'd rather go with the more consistent option. It is a really nice stop to priority which is one of the biggest blocks to a Sharpedo sweep so that's cool. Definitely viable, but takes skill to use well.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
So, um, just realized that Gnief Fiar wrote this a few pages before I did and Anttya didn't take it off the reserve list so I did another write-up and nobody said anything...Gyarados(Flying) for C Rank
Died Death(Gyarados)(M)@Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate or Moxie
EVs: 248 HP, 8 Atk, 252 SpDef
Careful Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Bounce/Bite(Crunch when it comes out)
-Earthquake
This is the standard Gyarados set, I think. You can play around with the EVs a little. Gyarados's EVs are always weird. This set is for Steel types and Ground types mainly. They seem to give Flying some trouble.
Here's a set that I really like...
Died Death(Gyarados)(M)@Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP, 56 Def, 252 SpDef
Careful Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Waterfall
Again, play around with the EVs so that it fits your tastes. This is like a CroCune set, but with a lot worse Defense. It's walled by anything that resists or is immune to Water, but for everything else, it's pretty good. This would be better if it were Mega Gyarados, but eh. Still good. Just watch out for Electric attacks and Storm Drain.
From what is said above, you'd think that Gyarados would at least be B Rank, right? But Gyarados on Flying isn't very good. It's incredibly weak to Electric, which is one of Flying's weaknesses. Only reason to use it is for Ground and maybe Steel types. That's why it should get a C Rank.
Also, about school, our school is big on self-directed learning, which translates to this: "Hand in your assignments on time and get good grades and we don't care what you do in class." Teachers are awesome too--half of them encourage us to do other stuff unrelated to school for parts of class so we aren't geeks in university. One teacher sees kids gaming, and then walks to his desk to join in. :I
I brought up the sound moves thing, because if you sub while they switch in to Scarf Genesect, you're dead. Scarf Genesect outspeeds (1.5x speed boost vs. 1.5x from scarf, and Genesect has higher base speed) and can OHKO with Bug Buzz. Thus, if you stay in you're screwed, if you switch you lose 25% health, and if you switch and you use Dark, then probably something else is gonna die (or at least be dented). If you run protect, however, protect fails when they switch, allowing you to protect again, and out-speed. That's why I think Protect is better and more reliable, especially for new players (which is what this thread is for), but I also see how sub can be used effectively by skilled players. Another thing is that Mega Sharpedo is wrecked by Thunder Wave from Prankster Thundurus/Klefki, or WoW Prankster Sableye, so that is why sub is useful.
Also, I thought there was a limit of 1 new mega, but Inscribe just reserved his third? Correct me if that rule was deleted or something or if it was just one at a time.
As well, on my Rotom-W post, there's gonna be two sets of everything until I change it over to text, as I did it in a series of copy/pastes (1 big one didn't work) and I'm not sure how much was copy/pasted at a time. We confirmed B Rank was the best fit, right? I know I agreed to that, and Chimplup and AFD and Anttya, but was there anyone else who didn't like B Rank for Rotom-W?
Also, if Soul Dew is legal in Monotype on Lati@s, maybe you should add a set with Soul Dew DM35 and whoever did Latias.
Also (ya ya lot of stuff, long post, sorry) are we allowed to write up sets we use for Pokemon that have already been written, but got new moves with ORAS? I have a physical ninja set I like with Gunk Shot/Low Kick, and wanted to put that up here.
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Jirachi (psychic) for B rank
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Fire Punch
- Healing Wish / Trick
While ancient, a scarf rachi can do quite a lot for a psychic mono. Starting off with iron head, an infamous attack whose 60% flinch can and will function without para in an emergency. U-turn is relatively free momentum, given that pretty much every team will have a jirachi check and you resist stealth rock. Fire punch is most useful in the vs bug matchup, as even with sticky web up, you can steel destroy the dangerous mega scizor and most any unboosted bug type. Additionally, leading and mashing iron head may prevent it at all. Healing Wish has out popularized trick, because many of the walls and tanks jirachi magnetically brings in turn out to be megas. Despite that, I can still recomend trick if you don't have a knock off user on the team, since jirachi isn't messing with rocky helmet, and there are some walls left to cripple for ceirtain teams. Healing Wish is amazingly potent for a latias, mega metagross, gallade, slowbro crippled by BS coverage move early game, or quite a bit else, and Jirachi's health is suprisingly easy to maintain for a scarfer. If you don't have a lati@s, you can consider ice punch to check landorus, who can muscle through half of the megas, stallbreaker mew, and generally cause chaos for a psychic team.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave / Body Slam
- Wish
- U-turn / Protect
Special defensive can heal up slower members of its team, or slowly murder it's switch ins with it's ruthless haxing power. Somewhat slow U-turn can sometimes allow it to tank a hit for a frailer mon in need of wish, and also bluff choice if you send him in early versus something like hippowdon or swampert. Wishing yourself is suprisingly easy against things slower than you, who iron head will basically equal protect when used against. You can opt to keep protect if you feel jirachi is needed against opponet's weaking it down with medium special attacks and ease prediction. Most opposing types won't have greedy pokemon to switch in on thunderwave, but the omnipresent landorus on flying teams can be obliterated without losing your slowly tickle walls to death ability... except 40% of the time.
Jirachi, hasn't aged much, and still acts as a very considerable pivot. It is almost embarrasingly good with spikes support, and can easily support a bulky psychic team as well by reliably chasing the fragiler kind of wall breaker. While not talked about much, it can tank lone neutral attacks even on its scarf set due to its 100s all round. It's special resistances are considerable, and the extra degree of anti fairy STAB can be welcome, although hardly neccesary for a decent psychic team. It's calm mind and dual screen sets are generally outclassed by other pokemon. It can experiment with things ranging stealth rock to sub toxic, but the straight up utility of it's traditional sets helps with some of the weaknesses of a standard psychic team. Jirachi finds itself at a loss against bulky waters, foul play abusers, sucker punch, and ground attacks coming from faster pokemon, but if it's shortcomings are kept in mind it can pull you through a lot of games.
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Fire Punch
- Healing Wish / Trick
While ancient, a scarf rachi can do quite a lot for a psychic mono. Starting off with iron head, an infamous attack whose 60% flinch can and will function without para in an emergency. U-turn is relatively free momentum, given that pretty much every team will have a jirachi check and you resist stealth rock. Fire punch is most useful in the vs bug matchup, as even with sticky web up, you can steel destroy the dangerous mega scizor and most any unboosted bug type. Additionally, leading and mashing iron head may prevent it at all. Healing Wish has out popularized trick, because many of the walls and tanks jirachi magnetically brings in turn out to be megas. Despite that, I can still recomend trick if you don't have a knock off user on the team, since jirachi isn't messing with rocky helmet, and there are some walls left to cripple for ceirtain teams. Healing Wish is amazingly potent for a latias, mega metagross, gallade, slowbro crippled by BS coverage move early game, or quite a bit else, and Jirachi's health is suprisingly easy to maintain for a scarfer. If you don't have a lati@s, you can consider ice punch to check landorus, who can muscle through half of the megas, stallbreaker mew, and generally cause chaos for a psychic team.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave / Body Slam
- Wish
- U-turn / Protect
Special defensive can heal up slower members of its team, or slowly murder it's switch ins with it's ruthless haxing power. Somewhat slow U-turn can sometimes allow it to tank a hit for a frailer mon in need of wish, and also bluff choice if you send him in early versus something like hippowdon or swampert. Wishing yourself is suprisingly easy against things slower than you, who iron head will basically equal protect when used against. You can opt to keep protect if you feel jirachi is needed against opponet's weaking it down with medium special attacks and ease prediction. Most opposing types won't have greedy pokemon to switch in on thunderwave, but the omnipresent landorus on flying teams can be obliterated without losing your slowly tickle walls to death ability... except 40% of the time.
Jirachi, hasn't aged much, and still acts as a very considerable pivot. It is almost embarrasingly good with spikes support, and can easily support a bulky psychic team as well by reliably chasing the fragiler kind of wall breaker. While not talked about much, it can tank lone neutral attacks even on its scarf set due to its 100s all round. It's special resistances are considerable, and the extra degree of anti fairy STAB can be welcome, although hardly neccesary for a decent psychic team. It's calm mind and dual screen sets are generally outclassed by other pokemon. It can experiment with things ranging stealth rock to sub toxic, but the straight up utility of it's traditional sets helps with some of the weaknesses of a standard psychic team. Jirachi finds itself at a loss against bulky waters, foul play abusers, sucker punch, and ground attacks coming from faster pokemon, but if it's shortcomings are kept in mind it can pull you through a lot of games.
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I really don't like Wish sets without Protect, ik it takes a slot from your utility or w/e but it makes you so much more susceptible to the Special attacks you should be tanking for a Steel team, think here Hydro Pumps from Water teams, Thunderbolts and w/e, I just think Protect gives the set a lot more security as a Special wall.
It's a limit of one reservation so I guess its fine once he's finished the earlier things. I don't see much of a rush to actually threaten to block people out of the thread in the first place though.
It's obtainable now, but it's still banned to ubers, and monotype should still be using at least that OU tag.
I'd probbably just quote the original and then post the new set there, with explanation for how it works, rank changes if applicable, etc.
I've never really run it as sole special wall, but I find that the majortiy of things challenging it are either, too weak to beat it without protect (maybe due to iron head) or strong enough to beat it regardless, with only a small number of pokemon falling into the middle category of would lose without protect, but win with it. This is why I run a riskier jirachi. Steel of course might want extra attention paid to it, but w/e.
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