Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Metagame Discussion

so, with soul dew being released, it looks like we'e got 2 more capable defoggers in latios and latias to go with giratina-O and support Arceus forms. what do you gys think about these two, which both pack reliable recovery (and memento/healing wish). where do you think the soul dew varients will stand as support mons compared to the other defoggers out there?
 
so, with soul dew being released, it looks like we'e got 2 more capable defoggers in latios and latias to go with giratina-O and support Arceus forms. what do you gys think about these two, which both pack reliable recovery (and memento/healing wish). where do you think the soul dew varients will stand as support mons compared to the other defoggers out there?
sd lati@s are clearly among the best defoggers, and the best part is that they possess such low opportunity cost and providing incredible support options as you outlined in your post. latis is arguably much more effective at defogging than arceus formes/giratina-o due to the firepower that forces the switches. with the free turns, you get to defog on these turns.
 
Latias is really nice as a defensive defogger with Groudon-Primal. It checks opposing Groudon-Primal sans Dragon Claw and Kyogre-Primal (both of which can be big threats to your own Groudon-Primal) and Defogs away hazards that would otherwise wear Groudon-Primal down. In addition, by freeing up your Defog slot you can run CM or straight-up wall Arceus formes without needing to devote a moveslot.
 
252 SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 390-458 (114 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 426-504 (124.5 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 188-222 (62.2 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Never going to be used.
 
252 SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 390-458 (114 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 426-504 (124.5 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 188-222 (62.2 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Never going to be used.
Especially when Cloud Nine doesn't cancel the weathers iirc
 
I'm curious what people think of Mega Mewtwo-X in ORAS. People seem to say it's gotten worse, but I think it actually matches up well in the new Ubers meta. Primal Groudon leads to a lack of regular Groudon, and therefore less of a need to run Ice Beam. Groudon was also one of the biggest counters to MMX in XY Ubers. Low Kick 2HKOs offensive Primal Groudon, so it can't switch in safely without decent bulk (upwards of 100 HP EVs). Primal Groudon is also worn down more easily by SR than Groudon. The reintroduction of Soul Dew Lati@s hurts, but in the moveslot freed up by not having to run Ice Beam, MMX can run Ice Punch, which 2HKOs the Lati@s twins at worse. I'm not saying it's top of the tier, but I think people are giving it a bad rep when it really hasn't gotten worse.
 
I'm curious what people think of Mega Mewtwo-X in ORAS. People seem to say it's gotten worse, but I think it actually matches up well in the new Ubers meta. Primal Groudon leads to a lack of regular Groudon, and therefore less of a need to run Ice Beam. Groudon was also one of the biggest counters to MMX in XY Ubers. Low Kick 2HKOs offensive Primal Groudon, so it can't switch in safely without decent bulk (upwards of 100 HP EVs). Primal Groudon is also worn down more easily by SR than Groudon. The reintroduction of Soul Dew Lati@s hurts, but in the moveslot freed up by not having to run Ice Beam, MMX can run Ice Punch, which 2HKOs the Lati@s twins at worse. I'm not saying it's top of the tier, but I think people are giving it a bad rep when it really hasn't gotten worse.
I could be wrong about this, but I believe that the general consensus regarding MM2X is the opportunity cost of not running the other various megas in the tier, such as Mence, Gengar and even its counterpart MM2Y, and Normal Mewtwo, who is still really good, doesn't take up a mega slot.

I do agree, however, that Mewtwo X hasn't got worse either, and I personally like it more than MM2Y just due to how underrated he is and how most teams never really prepare for it, but I believe it's mainly due to competiton with other mons in the tier more than its viability.
 
2 questions:

DeoA: does it really need 252+ speed to tie with other deoA or is enough to outspeed MMY?
scarf KyuW: what is the best nature? Modest or Timid? 252 speed or less is enough and a bit can be spared for more hp?
 

Blue Jay

The notorious Good Wife
is a Contributor Alumnus
2 questions:

DeoA: does it really need 252+ speed to tie with other deoA or is enough to outspeed MMY?
scarf KyuW: what is the best nature? Modest or Timid? 252 speed or less is enough and a bit can be spared for more hp?
I would advise 188+ Speed for Deoxys-A. That's just enough to outspeed standard Choice Scarf Xerneas, which is the fastest common threat that you can outspeed.

As for Kyurem-W, I would not advise it as a Choice Scarf user. Between poor defensive synergy, Stealth Rock weakness, a main STAB that reduces its Special Attack and has an immunity and the inability to reliably revenge kill Mega Mewtwos (Mega Mewtwo X needs SR and may survive even then, and Mega Mewtwo Y just tanks Draco Meteor) it seems relatively unappealing. The lategame cleaning power also does not seem remarkable, although teams are perhaps less prepared for it than for Xerneas, Kyogre or Zekrom. If you really want to use it though, 220 EVs with a Modest nature are enough to outspeed the aforementioned Choice Scarf Xerneas set. Alternatively, 164+ and 216+ Speed allow you to outspeed max speed Deoxys-A and max speed Choice Scarf base 90s respectively, although a Timid Kyurem-W is quite weak.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Choice Scarf Kyurem imo has a niche in this meta. With Scarfogre disappearing from the planet, Scarf Kyurem-W is one of the best checks to Groundceus available, being able to cover both SD and CM in one slot while being a Scarfer. It still has a lot of issues though, but it does have that going for it at least.
 
Choice Scarf Kyurem imo has a niche in this meta. With Scarfogre disappearing from the planet, Scarf Kyurem-W is one of the best checks to Groundceus available, being able to cover both SD and CM in one slot while being a Scarfer. It still has a lot of issues though, but it does have that going for it at least.
252 Atk Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 204-240 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

idk...If they hit you on the switch and have SR up, you're put into range to die on the next switchin from SR damage. Even if you have a super solid hazard removal strategy, you still have a really shifty check that dies from two predicted EQs or SEs. I guess it's decent for HO, but Arceus-Ground can probably outlast you and get through.
 
I know this isn't real competitive Discussion, but I have to say that the inclusion of a splashable Uber capable of checking Xerneas makes this Uber much, much better than XY(or god forbid gen 5) Ubers metagame
 
What are people's thoughts on Yveltal with Knock Off? I think it has merit on defensive variants, especially with the decline of Arceus formes. Knock Off also lets it swat away GeoXern's Power Herb and it can hassle stall when paired with Taunt.
 
What are people's thoughts on Yveltal with Knock Off? I think it has merit on defensive variants, especially with the decline of Arceus formes. Knock Off also lets it swat away GeoXern's Power Herb and it can hassle stall when paired with Taunt.
Decline might be a stretch...while Defogging is certainly less of a necessary use for them now that Lati@s has Soul Dew, they are still extremely common. Arceus-Dark, Ghost, and Ground are all A-rank or above, and running Knock Off instead of Dark Pulse severely hinders your ability to pressure them (especially Arceus-Ghost). In addition, Groudon-Primal and Kyogre-Primal are both immune, and depending on which Mega your opponent is running they can potentially also take advantage of the decision to run Knock Off to set up or just pressure you. Getting rid of GeoXern's Herb is nice, but overall you just don't really have space except MAYBE on fully defensive variants.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Knock Off is an interesting alternative option. Yes, it is true that a lot of Pokemon are immune to its item-removing effect, and as such it offers less general damage than Dark Pulse. However, it does hit some targets noticeably harder, and can be used if you want to specifically hit them

Assume you're replacing Dark Pulse with it, and thus running Naughty instead of Rash and utilizing Atk investment.

(Calculations assume bonus knock off dmg unless stated otherwise)

Vs. 252/0 Klefki: 52%-61%
vs. 248/0 Ho-Oh: 80%-94%
vs. 252/0 Kyogre-Primal (no boost): 55%-65% (max Satk+ dark pulse does <50%)
vs. 0/0 Extremekiller: 68%-80%
vs. 0/0 Rayquaza: 95%-100%+
And you can hit blobs and spdef fairies with it if you really hate them xD

(A side effect from investing in atk for Knock Off is also powering up Sucker Punch, enhancing Yveltal's revenge killing power).
 
Last edited:
The ubers tier is filled with mega evolutions of pokemon that were previously in the NU tier or uu tier. Mega evolution was advertised as a method of GAMEFREAK making older pokemon more viable in a competetive atmoshphere. In X and Y most mega evolutions gave great benefit to their base forms, except for mega gyarados, GAMEFREAK doesn't need to be scarred of dragon types anymore, that is what fairy was supposed to fix right? But now with the introduction of primal reversion and seeing how mega evolution has been implemented into other pokemon, it is now clear that mega evolution was possibly the most damaging idea Gamefreak invented. Several pokemon such as Camerupt, SHARPEDO, Beedrill, Houndoom, Kagashan, Mawile, and Beedrill have gotten a nice buff to their competetive value, however they cannot compare to other pokemon such as Gardevoir, Garchomp, mewtwo, Groudon, kyogre, Rayquaza and Diancie that have powerful megas themselves, making it redundant as a means of making less viable pokemon better competetivly. I believe Mega Evolution and Primal Reversion have become nothing more than tools for gamefreak to make pokemon that are already strong enough to make them even more powerful compared to other Pokemon. I believe there should be a mandatory update that removes all data from the generation 6 games that has anything to do with mega evolution, including all mega stones, lines, plot lines, and other miscellaneous things. I apologize if this is not the appropriate place for this, I do not know how to create my own thread, and I hope the users here have the maturity too not call me a "genwunner" or other offensive terms, if so, thanks to the mature users, this is a nice sites and you should feel proud for making it this way.
 
Last edited:
The ubers tier is filled with mega evolutions of pokemon that were previously in the NU tier or uu tier. Mega evolution was advertised as a method of GAMEFREAK making older pokemon more viable in a competetive atmoshphere. In X and Y most mega evolutions gave great benefit to their base forms, except for mega gyarados, GAMEFREAK doesn't need to be scarred of dragon types anymore, that is what fairy was supposed to fix right? But now with the introduction of primal reversion and seeing how mega evolution has been implemented into other pokemon, it is now clear that mega evolution was possibly the most damaging idea Gamefreak invented. Several pokemon such as Camerupt, SHARPEDO, Beedrill, Houndoom, Kagashan, Mawile, and Beedrill have gotten a nice buff to their competetive value, however they cannot compare to other pokemon such as Gardevoir, Garchomp, mewtwo, Groudon, kyogre, Rayquaza and Diancie that have powerful megas themselves, making it redundant as a means of making less viable pokemon better competetivly. I believe Mega Evolution and Primal Reversion have become nothing more than tools for gamefreak to make pokemon that are already strong enough to make them even more powerful compared to other Pokemon. I believe there should be a mandatory update that removes all data from the generation 6 games that has anything to do with mega evolution, including all mega stones, lines, plot lines, and other miscellaneous things. I apologize if this is not the appropriate place for this, I do not know how to create my own thread, and I hope the users here have the maturity too not call me a "genwunner" or other offensive terms, if so, thanks to the mature users, this is a nice sites and you should feel proud for making it this way.
No one cares about what you think about megas, play gen 5 and lower or nothing at all.
 
Mega evolution
I'm curious what people think of Mega Mewtwo-X in ORAS. People seem to say it's gotten worse, but I think it actually matches up well in the new Ubers meta. Primal Groudon leads to a lack of regular Groudon, and therefore less of a need to run Ice Beam. Groudon was also one of the biggest counters to MMX in XY Ubers. Low Kick 2HKOs offensive Primal Groudon, so it can't switch in safely without decent bulk (upwards of 100 HP EVs). Primal Groudon is also worn down more easily by SR than Groudon. The reintroduction of Soul Dew Lati@s hurts, but in the moveslot freed up by not having to run Ice Beam, MMX can run Ice Punch, which 2HKOs the Lati@s twins at worse. I'm not saying it's top of the tier, but I think people are giving it a bad rep when it really hasn't gotten worse.
is general is unnesecarry for s pokemon like mewtwo, RAYQUAZA, and other ubers, however Groudon's primal form is somewhat justified because it has always been seen as less than Kyogre
 

Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
If you feel like MegaEvolution is terribad and you cant possibly play with it, go play gen 5 or below. Ubers have become more interesting with Mega Evolution, in my opinion, with things like Kangaskhan and Mawile being used here.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top