Creative & Underrated Sets in STABmons

Lots of people are using Terrakion and Keldeo in STABmons, and even Virizion got a mention in C rank. But how about our poor Cobalion?

As I always have love for steel and fighting types (especially lucario), I ran a special Cobalion and it worked quite well.


Cobalion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Secret Sword

It's pretty bulky against physical attacker with 90 HP and 129 Def and the good defensive typing means it can be switch into many physical threats without any problems. Steel and fighting isn't that good of a coverage, but well at least secret sword is guaranteed OHKO against Tyranitar. Its speed and special coverage also means it can easily revenge kills weakened heatran and some other steel types without worrying about king's shield.
 
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Lots of people are using Terrakion and Keldeo in STABmons, and even Virizion got a mention in C rank. But how about our poor Cobalion?

As I always have love for steel and fighting types (especially lucario), I ran a special Cobalion and it worked quite well.


Cobalion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Secret Sword

It's pretty bulky against physical attacker with 90 HP and 129 Def and the good defensive typing means it can be switch into many physical threats without any problems. Steel and fighting isn't that good of a coverage, but well at least secret sword is guaranteed OHKO against Tyranitar. Its speed and special coverage also means it can easily revenge kills weakened heatran and some other steel types without worrying about king's shield.
Takes care of Physical Walls and Chansey. Sadly not MegaBro.

Sorry, retracting my star, because it becomes set up bait for Aegislash. A Taunt or Calm Mind in the place of Vacuum Wave might tempt me to give a star again.

Finalize that Tinted Lens set and I'll star that too.
 
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Just edit your post. It's been suggested that Chatter is lacklustre and Roost is redundant. Noctowl gets Shadow Ball, Defog, Heat Wave and Psychic as replacements. Oh and Substitute to check Chansey. Decide what to keep and what to lose.
 
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Just edit your post. It's been suggested that Chatter is lacklustre and Roost is redundant. Noctowl gets Shadow Ball, Defog, Heat Wave and Psychic as replacements. Oh and Substitute to check Chansey. Decide what to keep and what to lose.
I've already removed chatter. The roost on life orb set is also changed to substitute.
 
OK, I post it here since Dinalsha asked:

I found that Noctowl is a rarely used but pretty powerful boomburst spammer (IMO better than pyroar) thanks to it's tinted lens ability, and its bulk is not too terrible with 100/50/96 defense.


Noctowl @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Oblivion Wing
- Transform

Let's see some of the "anti-boomburst" mons (still can't do anything to Tyranitar or Aegislash):
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Noctowl Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 354-416 (105.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Noctowl Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 252-296 (65.2 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Noctowl Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 202-238 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Noctowl Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 264-312 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A scarf set can be used instead, and Oblivion Wing/Transform can be replaced by Aeroblast. I wouldn't recommend using hidden power fighting (unfortunately it doesn't know focus miss) because it doesn't do much more apart from hitting non-mega Aggron.

Alternatively, it can also run life orb:


Noctowl @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Oblivion Wing
- Substitute

Oblivion Wing is preferred over Aeroblast as it regenerate tons of health, which is awesome for compensating life orb recoil. I still prefer the choice set above though, as in this physical-oriented metagame Noctowl with 50 Def won't ever survive two unboosted ExtremeSpeeds.

Edit: Looks like chatter won't confuse. My mistake then.
Not gonna give this a star and I'd advise DinaIsha not to either. I'd rather use Meloetta any day honestly, as it's faster, bulkier, has an arguably better typing, and can beat everything that this supposedly can.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 248-292 (74.2 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 248-292 (74.2 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 304-358 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 132-156 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 326-384 (92.6 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 141-167 (40 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 192-227 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 168-198 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Sure Noctowl has that "wow" factor, but Meloetta seems to be much much better. Furthermore, why not just run Mega Pidgeot? Another Pokemon that fulfills the same thing that Noctowl is going for. Reject.
 
So, we're rejecting everything that's not A or S? Besides, Pidgeot and Meloetta get walled by Heatran and Defensive Aegislash. Meoletta, with its usual move set gets shit on by Sableye.

Now that I think of it, Noctowl gets Shell Smash.

Run calcs for +2 Life Orb Tinted Lens Noctowl's two STABs against any wall in STABmons you can think of not named Chansey. Find a 3HKO and I'll agree with you.
 
So, we're rejecting everything that's not A or S? Besides, Pidgeot and Meloetta get walled by Heatran and Defensive Aegislash. Meoletta, with its usual move set gets shit on by Sableye.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 304-358 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 406-478 (105.4 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Physdef is better and more common in STABmons)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 177-209 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 202-238 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 134-158 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 154-182 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (I'm not sure what you mean by "defensive" Aegislash, but it 2HKOs 252 / 252+ irregardless)

All of these calcs with the Specs Melo set I posted a while ago. Noctowl's only significant advantage is OHKOing (as opposed to 2HKOing) Sableye with Hurricane. And if it runs Oblivion Wing (like the set posted) it only does this:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Noctowl Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 214-253 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noctowl Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Noctowl can break several of the same things, but it does so with less power, less speed, no ability to break Chansey, and significantly less bulk. It's virtually completely outclassed by Meloetta (which already has an archived Specs set).
Also rejecting.
 
So, we're rejecting everything that's not A or S? Besides, Pidgeot and Meloetta get walled by Heatran and Defensive Aegislash. Meoletta, with its usual move set gets shit on by Sableye.
Actually, Meloetta 2HKOes Sableye with Shadow Bell or Judgment; this point isn't fair. Look at Seraph's Fire for further calcs as well. Why use a D Rank set when something in A Rank is able to be used, they're purely outclassed.

Now that I think of it, Noctowl gets Shell Smash.

Run calcs for +2 Life Orb Tinted Lens Noctowl's two STABs against any wall in STABmons you can think of not named Chansey. Find a 3HKO and I'll agree with you.
This is definitely not fair whatsoever, every Normal-type gets Shell Smash.... Also, 3HKOed? With lowered defenses, if it's not a OHKO then Noctowl is going down. Furthermore, where does it find room to setup? Why not use Shell Smash Pidgeot? Similar damage output, better overall.
 
Let me understand this.. A D Rank does the same damage output as an A Rank. And it's with a new, never-seen-before strategy, which is healthy for the metagame, but you reject it?

The KOed by FakeSpeed also applies for Pidgeot and Meloetta.

Please remind me what the thread is for again. It's for creative movesets that work. Not creative movesets that outclass every other viable user.

Say, someone posts a great new set that does the same thing as the Specs Meloetta set, maybe just a bit more. If accepted, will you remove the Specs set?
 
Let me understand this.. A D Rank does the same damage output as an A Rank. And it's with a new, never-seen-before strategy, which is healthy for the metagame, but you reject it?
I'm pretty sure it was rejected because Noctowl is a gimmick and not even a ranked Pokemon.

Please remind me what the thread is for again. It's for creative movesets that work. Not creative movesets that outclass every other viable user.
I am pretty sure this is for creative and underrated movesets, not Pokemon. And besides, is there a reason to use this over Meloetta?

Run calcs for +2 Life Orb Tinted Lens Noctowl's two STABs against any wall in STABmons you can think of not named Chansey. Find a 3HKO and I'll agree with you.
+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Noctowl Boomburst vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 122-146 (40.5 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Noctowl Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 225-265 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 53.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Can you agree now?
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Thing is, all the good sets posted here have an advantage to using them over other pokemon. They may be outclassed in certain areas, but they have a significant niche that allows them to be viable in the metagame. There's no point in using a set that is barely more powerful under only very niche circumstances, and that is a big liability otherwise.
 
I'm still not convinced. The thread is for starters to sink into the meta with preset movesets. As such, whatever diversity we show here will reflect in the ladder.

And the calcs are 2HKO with LO. So, no.

But I understand why it's not being considered. I am being a bit lenient for the sake of some additional flavor in the metagame. It hits hard enough, it's simply a bit lower on the bulk.
 
I'm still not convinced. The thread is for starters to sink into the meta with preset movesets. As such, whatever diversity we show here will reflect in the ladder.

And the calcs are 2HKO with LO. So, no.

But I understand why it's not being considered. I am being a bit lenient for the sake of some additional flavor in the metagame. It hits hard enough, it's simply a bit lower on the bulk.
Diversity ≠ better metagame in all cases. I mean, sure, some innovation is cool here and there; but Noctowl does not have a place in STABmons n.n
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I think I'd prefer Insomnia over Tinted Lens, and even then, I'd rather use something else to absorb sleep.
 
Something that no one has mentioned so far is that you could use Noctowl alongside Meloetta, rather than 1 in place of another. Running the two side-by-side allows them to form a beat down core that gradually wears down their shared checks, giving the other an easier time, a la birdspam or gen V dragon cores. Melo adds psystrike for Chansey, as well as focus blast for rocks and steels, while Noctowl has more longevity with oblivion wing while also being very hard to switch into with tinted lens hurricanes/ aeroblasts and boombursts.

Honestly, the debate right now seems to be more ideological rather than about the set's merits. While the set is (probably) effective in what it does, it is outclassed by other more relevant pokemon. So is this thread more about finding roles that underutilized or overlooked pokemon can fill albeit maybe not as well as something else, or new, unfilled roles/ creative ways to use already strong, used, and almost predictable pokemon to function?
 
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Exactly. But someone has to actually start using it and prove it to be effective. Unresisted STAB Boomburst is no joke.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I can't say I play STABmons often or are an experienced player, but I just tested a set and it seems pretty good. I thought of it as first as a gimmick, but it works pretty well.


Empoleon @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Water Shuriken
- Earthquake

At first sight it's a Shift Gear sweeper like all others. One of the thing that differentiates it is the Water typing. It's not weak to fire anyway (Not too common, but still good) and a resistance to Water, which in combination which its decent bulk allows it to set up on things like defensive Heatran, Azumarill and other Fire, Water, Grass, Steel, Flying, Ice type Pokemon. This also gives it availability to a great priority move in Water Shuriken. Another benefit is its ability: Defiant. Defiant is a great ability in STABmons because it abuses Parting Shot really well. Although you still rely on setting up or sweeping with only Water Shuriken. A benefit is that Sableye can't just reduce it's boosts and you could even run a Lum Berry so you can just kill Sableye. It also takes advantage of Sticky Web, but be aware you won't outspeed as much at +1.

Its moves are kind of obvious. Shift Gear is to set up, and is better than Agility. Gear Grind is a strong STAB that can break through subs. Water Shuriken is STAB Priority and Earthquake is a strong coverage move. You can also run Waterfall for reliable secondary STAB or Drill Peck to hit Grass types, but so far Earthquake has been the most useful as it can hit Electric Types. EV's are straightforward as well, this just maximizes offensive potential, as I don't know the benchmarks/any specific attack to survive. Adamant nature as it needs power badly and it can boost speed anyway.

Finally, it resists most priority, including Fakespeed. This allows it to beat Diggersby with Water Shuriken. Also The Reptile is weak to this monster :]]]
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
I'm going to throw a
at Snaq here. Empoleon hits surprisingly hard even before the boost. Defiant is what makes the set however - Lando-T can't handle Empoleon, something other Shift Gearers can't really claim. Overall a cool set.

While I'm here, let's talk about Scizor.


Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind / Bullet Punch
- Baton Pass
- Roost

I don't quite remember the EV spread here (I think I just stole it from OU), but the idea is to be really bulky, as the main goal here isn't to sweep by itself - although it most certainly can. The main deal here is Baton Pass, which lets you pass at least +2 Speed and +1 Attack to anything. The best part is that you can pass to anything and get a benefit, except maybe a wall. Main focus on bulk for extra set-up also gives you a decent Diggersby check - Perc. Blade has a 0.4% chance to OHKO.

Maybe the spread could be better but I like it.
 

Pyroar:White Herb
Ability: Moxie
Adamant Nature
Extremespeed
V-create
Hidden Power Ground
Shell Smash

Akin to Snaquaza's Defiant Empoleon set i found a use for a Moxie Pyroar set simply smash with a white herb extremespeed is for a good physical normal move V-create is for a strong like reallly strong fire move and wild charge is for empoleons and rock types note it can't do much against rock/ground types but it's not a big deal.
 
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I'd rather see protect or hidden power (ground for Heatran or grass for Quagsire) since wild charge is weaker than V-create in most cases and recoil is not something this sweeper wants to deal with
 

Pyroar:White Herb
Ability: Moxie
Adamant Nature
Extremespeed
V-create
Hidden Power Ground
Shell Smash

Akin to Snaquaza's Defiant Empoleon set i found a use for a Moxie Pyroar set simply smash with a white herb extremespeed is for a good physical normal move V-create is for a strong like reallly strong fire move and wild charge is for empoleons and rock types note it can't do much against rock/ground types but it's not a big deal.
Passing.


Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Spacial Rend
- Earth Power

Special lure Kyurem-Black! Kyurem makes use of its high Special Attack and powerful attacks to lure in normal checks, think Skarmory, Quagsire, and Heatran. All of them are blasted by the respective move. Freeze-Dry / Ice Beam is nearly unresisted and is a very useful move in general. Other than that, it's a fairly unique, simplistic, and effective set.
 
Alright I'm not posting a creative set this time. But this set is severely underrated:

Latias (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 SpD (or max special defense)
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Psystrike
- Defog/Earthquake/Hidden power Fire

Mega Latias is easily one of the best pokemon in the meta right now, although I haven't actually seen this pokemon used once. It has amazing power, good STABs, defogs reliably, and walls so much of the meta; in fact, I'll just pull this up from the viability rankings (I know they're outdated, but let me just make a point):
Thundurus, Landorus-T, Heatran, Landorus-I(stall get hyped), Charizard Y, Special Talonflame

Another thing to note is that it's a mon that walls keldeo that actually has several uses outside of walling keldeo.

The moveset was made so that it can survive the 2HKO from landorus-I's hurricane and retaliate back with a psystrike and/or Draco Meteor. Roost is for recovery, draco and psystrike are the obligatory STABs, and the last slot is up to you; defog if you want to get rid of hazards reliably, earthquake if you want to beat heatran more quickly, or hidden power fire if you despise scizor.

What's great about this set is that it actually makes stall possible in this tier. Before, stall was impossible because there were so many possibilities and the meta was incredibly random. After the meta settled down a bit, people suddenly realized that literally nothing walled landorus-I, and prankster taunt thundy became extremely problematic for stall with oblivion wing and volt switch for momentum. With this set, you not only get to check those two pokemon (which would warrant it a spot on every stall team already), but you also get a non-niche check to choicetran, talonflame, and keldeo. In fact, I already built a decent-ish stall team around it, and this set in particular is extremely effective against many teams, since lando-t, keldeo, thundy, and talonflame are literally everywhere. Oh yeah, and it puts in a lot of work as a generally effective tank and a defogger, which is why I'm posting this.

:afrostar:to unfixable 's freeze-dry Kyube. I used it extensively on my "AM REAL ENOUGH" team as a back up for my freeze-dry cloyster, and although it wasn't "as" effective due to the existence of fusion bolt, I still had fun with it.
 

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