Resource Creative and Underrated Sets: ORAS Edition (NO SHITTY GIMMICKS, Read Post #419)

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Hammer Arm lowers Speed and pretty much destroys the purpose of MMeta: Being a sweeper.

I dont see MMeta being a "hit and run" mon per say but Hammer Arm isnt out of the ordinary.

I wouldn't say that MegaGross's only role is a sweeper. It's speed tier isn't necessarily low, but without Agility it tends to be easy to revenge kill with Scarfers, especially since non-Agility sets usually have no defensive investments. This is why the 4-Attack sets are considered wallbreaking sets and the Agility set is considered a sweeping set. So yes, on a 4 attack set, Hammer Arm is pretty common simply because it takes out a lot of common defensive switch-ins and still leaves him enough speed usually to finish off a wall and because it's normal for a Wallbreaker to just leave a huge dent and GTFO.

 

[Martin]

Hammer Arm is also rather common on the Agility set as it still outpaces most of the metagame at +1, allowing it to beat things like Ferrothorn 1-on-1. Also, many people run it so that it can take out Skarm before it is at a point where it can sweep (on agility) or to clear the way for something that struggles with Skarm (wallbreaker) as -1 m-meta 'outslows' 0 spe Skarm and can hit it after it roosts.

hopefully if this post gets archived it is after my name changes back to my old one

Sorry to double-post, but ive just remembered some stuff.

I was making an offensive team utilizing a trapping core of Dugtrio and Magneton, and I came up with this Gardevoir set:

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 76 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish / Substitute / Will-o-Wisp
- Taunt

Seeing how Gardevoir doesn't need to worry so much about its Steel-type checks/counters anymore, I decided to think of things that it could run over Focus Blast without running Calm Mind, and this is what I came up with. Healing wish is nice to restore a teammate to prime condition when Gardevoir reaches a point where it is no longer needed, while Sub eases prediction and protects it from status. Will-o-Wisp was the other option I considered for crippling physical attackers which try to come in and KO, most notably Bisharp. I just used Rustyy's spread.

Speaking of Healing Wish, another set that has been forgotten since earlier in the generation is Choice Scarf Gardevoir:

Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Healing Wish

The niche Gardevoir has over other scarfers is Healing Wish, and Choice Scarf makes it the fastest somewhat viable Fairy-type. Moonblast is its most powerful Fairy-type attack, Psychic because it needs all the power it can get, Focus Blast to hit Steel-types and Healing Wish to heal teammates.

 

[Masamune]

Potentially great set I came up with earlier...

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Psych Up
- Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fighting]/Knock Off/Toxic
- Recover

Anti-Sweeper Sableye
With boosting sweepers being as common as they are at the moment - CM Clefable, CM Slowbro, CM Keldeo, CM Latias, but to name the special ones - this set acts like an anti-booster. The idea is to come in on something which has boosted (potentially after a kill), Prankster-PU their stat changes, absorb the hit and hit back. The benefit of stealing Calm Mind boosts is that your SpD gets boosted in conjuction with your SpA, so it effectively neutralizes the damage they'd do to you. You can steal Bulk Up boosts, too - same premise, your defense gets boosted in addition to your attack, and with the opponent's +Atk equal to you +Def you shouldn't be hit that hard.

Psych Up is for stealing stat boosts, Shadow Ball is a reliable STAB (Dark Pulse is optional), Hidden Power Fighting semi-perfect coverage in conjunction with Shadow Ball, and Recover is for sustainability. Shadow Sneak and Knock Off provide physical options if you think you'll be stealing physical boosts, like Swords Dance and Bulk Up. For example, you could Psych Up as a Gallade uses Swords Dance, before smacking it with a priority SE STAB boosted Shadow Sneak. CM is far more common in the current metagame, though, and you're probably better off sticking to two special attacks. Toxic is an option in the last slot, as it provides a win condition against bulky, healing Pokémmon such as Clefable. The optimal moveset is Psych Up/Shadow Ball/Toxic/Recover, although Sableye is quite flexible with its movepool.

This set deals with some of the metagame's biggest threats and, with Magic Bounce providing M-Sableye with immunity to status/phazing, it can become an absolute terror if you can steal some boosts. It might look like a gimmick, but in the few games I've had with it I've had a blast letting the opponent boost before revealing the set (and often causing them to ragequit). It has questionable benefits over regular CM M-Sableye, but the possibility of an instant +6/6 is pretty fucking sweet.

Give it a go!

Note: Psych Up hits through substitute, tried and tested myself on PS.

 

[Celticpride]

So I've been playing around with Mega Tyranitar lately and came up with this:

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch / Crunch / Earthquake
- Rock Polish

Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar just isn't fast enough anymore, so I figured why not go faster? Rock Polish allows TTar to outspeed every new Mega, as well as Scarf Landorus-T. The absurdly high speed Rock Polish gives Tyranitar gives allows it to run an Adamant nature, giving it 469 base attack. This actually allows it to double as a wallbreaker against defensive teams, without having to use up turns boosting. It's huge natural bulk gives it a lot of set-up opportunities as well. The three attacks I have been running are Stone Edge, Ice Punch and Fire Punch, however there are other options beyond that. Crunch and Earthquake are also suitable coverage options. It still does have trouble breaking through Keldeo, Lopunny, Altaria and Sableye, as well as it's ability opening it up to Excadrill revenging it. However, Tyranitar offers support to teammates that can deal with those threats, such as dealing with BirdSpam and the Lati@s duo. Chesnaught, Clefable, and Talonflame are good teammates to deal with those threats. Overall this spread plays very well in the much faster meta.

Some supporting calculations

Faster Stuff
-1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 171-202 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 304-360 (95.2 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 430-508 (158.6 - 187.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 304-358 (120.6 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 488-576 (162.1 - 191.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 544-640 (193.5 - 227.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive Threats
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-340 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Slowbro: 186-218 (47.2 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 268-316 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

 

[tehy]

TBH Gravity just covers more imo. Sure you 2HKO Rotom W with Zen Headbutt but the thing is is that the Accuracy and unreliability is p bad.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So you wear it down slightly and then 2shot it? Or is 90% accuracy just too awful?

If its not running Lefties, its running Scarf. Thats why EQ is much more reliable and w/e.

If it's running scarf, you might not even hit it with eq... why not just 2hitko with zen headbutt? Eq isn't even 100% to ohko w/out rocks, zenbutt always 2shots and you can just slam scarftom for a cool 75% of its health, then switch out like a bawss.

252 Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course its gotta setup Gravity first and then wait for switch in, but if Rotom W is weak enough then it can be 2HKOed.

So you use gravity on the first switch-in, then 2hit rotom-w later. Or... you use zen headbutt on the switchin, then 2hit rotom-w later. Meanwhile, zen headbutt can't run out like gravity, and is a powerful STAB move that hits anything hard, unlike gravity. Even if zen headbutt hits the wrong target, you still did some damage.

Skarmory is MMeta's nightmare. With Gravity it can 3HKO while Skarm can do nothing back. Now, its useless and MMeta isnt forced to go out.

We established that Tpunch does the same damage as Earthquake, so same thing. However, skarmory can stall out gravity, and you can't 2 shot it on the switch-in even if it got a bit weakened.

Almost all Air Balloon pokemon are Ground types, and when one switches in like Excadrill with Gravity up, they are hopeless. it is effective against revenge Air Ballooners because IF Gravity is still up MMeta will outspeed and OHKO.

Which is a benefit i noted.

Although, ground-types? More like steel-types.

The reason why im not running Thunder Punch is because

a. thats not that innovative

...and?

b. gets blocked by Rotom W, one of the basis's of this set. Remember, its meant to be Rotom W/Skarm B8 and it works decent.

It's almost totally ineffective bait since the luring move has a windup turn, sort of like shouting "I WILL HIT YOU SUPER EFFECTIVELY, BETTER SWITCH OUT". Also, we established that gravity blows vs those two.

See, what gravity does is stop Flying types or Levitate users from taking out MMeta. Of course there are a few, but these few threaten MMeta by forcing switch outs or suffering a burn. Bronzrong hard counters MMeta so having a way to take out Bronzrong is great.

Yes, i noted this as well...the bronzong part. The rest of this means 0.

145 Tough Claws MMeta OHKO's Frailninja with Thunder Punch? Thats crazy!

I know, right? Almost like you don't let it switch in for free or something!!!

252 Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 164-194 (57.3 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Have fun with that. I'll be over here NOT getting ruined by Greninja.

It takes out x4 super effective Gyarados even when its down by intimidate? Semi Impressive but
a. You shouldnt stay into Greninja or Gyarados

You hit ninja as it comes in. As for gyara, no reason not to-tpunch is surprising and they probably won't mega first turn for fear of the much more common hammer arm. Plus non mega gyara gets rekt.

Also you can hit gyara on the switch-in.

b. Skarm and Rotom W and Air Balloon Heatran and Bronzrong and Air Balloon Excadrill are arguably a little better to take out.

Skarm is hit the same by both moves. Rotom-w, zenbutted. Air ballooners, fine, but they're just revengers. Bronzong=rare as shit.

Tpunch helps vs talonflame and zard y (gravity won't always be up and talonflame can only be hit as it comes in), plus every bulky water.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Force it to rest, then take it out.

 

[alexwolf]

TBH Gravity just covers more imo. Sure you 2HKO Rotom W with Zen Headbutt but the thing is is that the Accuracy and unreliability is p bad.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If its not running Lefties, its running Scarf. Thats why EQ is much more reliable and w/e.

252 Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course its gotta setup Gravity first and then wait for switch in, but if Rotom W is weak enough then it can be 2HKOed.

Skarmory is MMeta's nightmare. With Gravity it can 3HKO while Skarm can do nothing back. Now, its useless and MMeta isnt forced to go out. Almost all Air Balloon pokemon are Ground types, and when one switches in like Excadrill with Gravity up, they are hopeless. it is effective against revenge Air Ballooners because IF Gravity is still up MMeta will outspeed and OHKO.

The reason why im not running Thunder Punch is because

a. thats not that innovative
b. gets blocked by Rotom W, one of the basis's of this set. Remember, its meant to be Rotom W/Skarm B8 and it works decent.

See, what gravity does is stop Flying types or Levitate users from taking out MMeta. Of course there are a few, but these few threaten MMeta by forcing switch outs or suffering a burn. Bronzrong hard counters MMeta so having a way to take out Bronzrong is great.

145 Tough Claws MMeta OHKO's Frailninja with Thunder Punch? Thats crazy! It takes out x4 super effective Gyarados even when its down by intimidate? Semi Impressive but
a. You shouldnt stay into Greninja or Gyarados
b. Skarm and Rotom W and Air Balloon Heatran and Bronzrong and Air Balloon Excadrill are arguably a little better to take out.

Skarmory either has Counter, which beats even Gravity EQ Mega Metagross, or straight up loses to Hammer Arm Mega Metagross, as after a few Speed drops Skarmory will be faster and therefore unable to Roost as Hammer Arm will hit it for super effective damage. Zen Headbutt already 2HKOes Rotom-W after SR and 90% accuracy is not unreliable at all, while with Gravity all you manage to do is hit Rotom-W with one EQ after using Gravity and then get burned. Gravity is trash, don't use it, unless you want to be innovative just for the sake of it. Oh and Hammer Arm also covers Air Balloon users such as Heatran and Excadrill.

 

[Martin]

There is literally zero reason to run either Gravity or Thunder Punch as -1 metagross is slower than Skarmory, allowing it to hit it with Hammer Arm after the roost. The gravity set isn't bad per se, but there are enough flaws to it to prevent it from being a genuinely good move. Also idk why Thunder Punch is being argued as it is just plain bad. You shouldn't be trying to take on Talonflame/Zard Y in the first place, M-Meta has a case of 4MSS as it is. Greninja switch-ins get destroyed by Hammer Arm anyway. Rotom-W can only be hit on switch-in and can burn you, so idk why anyone was talking about hitting it with Zen Headbutt. Both T-Punch and Gravity are kinda bad tbh.

 

[Reverb]

There is literally zero reason to run either Gravity or Thunder Punch as -1 metagross is slower than Skarmory, allowing it to hit it with Hammer Arm after the roost. The gravity set isn't bad per se, but there are enough flaws to it to prevent it from being a genuinely good move. Also idk why Thunder Punch is being argued as it is just plain bad. You shouldn't be trying to take on Talonflame/Zard Y in the first place, M-Meta has a case of 4MSS as it is. Greninja switch-ins get destroyed by Hammer Arm anyway. Rotom-W can only be hit on switch-in and can burn you, so idk why anyone was talking about hitting it with Zen Headbutt. Both T-Punch and Gravity are kinda bad tbh.

I disagree. Gravity lets Mega-Metagross beat Rotom-W (albeit Zen Headbutt is usually more practical), and Thunder Punch is useful for Skarmory (who is still slower than -1 Mega Metagross), Slowbro, Suicune, and OHKOing 100% Char-Y, among other threats.

EDIT:

To clarify, Thunder Punch will 2HKO Skarmory after SR, meaning it will be unable to use Counter.

 

[tehy]

There is literally zero reason to run either Gravity or Thunder Punch as -1 metagross is slower than Skarmory, allowing it to hit it with Hammer Arm after the roost.

Not even close. Max invested +nature base 110 doesn't drop below base 70 with 1 drop. On a related note, 29 speed iv skarmory is a kickass idea for -2 mega meta.

The gravity set isn't bad per se, but there are enough flaws to it to prevent it from being a genuinely good move. Also idk why Thunder Punch is being argued as it is just plain bad. You shouldn't be trying to take on Talonflame/Zard Y in the first place

But they sure like to take YOU on.

Being able to ohko flamer as it comes in is nice, zard y less relevant but at least it can't revenge you (in fact you can revenge if you gotta)

, M-Meta has a case of 4MSS as it is. Greninja switch-ins get destroyed by Hammer Arm anyway. Rotom-W can only be hit on switch-in and can burn you, so idk why anyone was talking about hitting it with Zen Headbutt. Both T-Punch and Gravity are kinda bad tbh.

The point of discussing tpunch was alongside earthquake; not meta's best set but a legitimate one (with eq, i mean). My point was that tpunch pretty much outclasses gravity, and it's not even a bad move on metagross (not great but ok). Is hammer arm overall better? Yea probably.

 

[Martin]

Not even close. Max invested +nature base 110 doesn't drop below base 70 with 1 drop. On a related note, 29 speed iv skarmory is a kickass idea for -2 mega meta.

But they sure like to take YOU on.

Being able to ohko flamer as it comes in is nice, zard y less relevant but at least it can't revenge you (in fact you can revenge if you gotta)


The point of discussing tpunch was alongside earthquake; not meta's best set but a legitimate one (with eq, i mean). My point was that tpunch pretty much outclasses gravity, and it's not even a bad move on metagross (not great but ok). Is hammer arm overall better? Yea probably.

ooh sorry i misspoke :/ my bad. What I meant was that -1 meta outslows on the turn it megas (252+ Meta reaches 239, 239*(2/3)=159.3 recurring=159, 0 speed Skarm reaches 176, you are slower by 17 stat points)

Still, like you said, T-Punch isn't great. I have to still argue against it being valid because its primary purpose (take out Skarm instead of using Gravity+EQ) can still be done effectively post-mega with Hammer Arm regardless of the stat difference. You can reliably beat Skarm post-mega as you actually do outslow at -2 (not -1 - that was a misspeak in my last post - I've calced it correctly this time: 252+ m-meta reaches 350, 350*0.5 is 175, 0 skarm reaches 176, you are 1 point slower).

Additionally, Talonflame needs to be hit on the switch, and this means that you are better either hitting it with Zen Headbutt on the switch (252 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 187-222 (62.9 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and then, relating back to CharY and Talon being in the post, either staying in and KOing with Zen Headbutt (Zard Y) or switching to a better check/i guess predicting a U-turn if you're super real? (Talon), so it is further degraded by that.

This is why Thunder Punch is a poor option. As for my point when i said -1 m-meta outslows, i misspoke and I apologize for the confusion.

I disagree. Gravity lets Mega-Metagross beat Rotom-W (albeit Zen Headbutt is usually more practical), and Thunder Punch is useful for Skarmory (who is still slower than -1 Mega Metagross), Slowbro, Suicune, and OHKOing 100% Char-Y, among other threats.

EDIT:

To clarify, Thunder Punch will 2HKO Skarmory after SR, meaning it will be unable to use Counter.

quoting myself from the reply to Tehy:

ooh sorry i misspoke :/ my bad. What I meant was that -1 meta outslows on the turn it megas (252+ Meta reaches 239, 239*(2/3)=159.3 recurring=159, 0 speed Skarm reaches 176, you are slower by 17 stat points)

As for beating Rotom-W, may I present you to this calc: 252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 170-200 (55.9 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. While that is a far better calc than the Zen Headbutt one (only 3HKOs), that is in no way good. This means that Rotom-W can switch in on the turn you use Gravity, tank an EQ and hit you up with a Will-O-Wisp. Trying to beat Rotom-W with a M-Meta is a fruitless endeavor unless your team has lots of Heal Bell/Aromatherapy and/or Healing Wish/Lunar Dance support, and even then it is iffy as Heal Bell/Aromatherapy kills offensive momentum, which M-Meta rides on a lot, while Healing Wish/Lunar Dance can only be used once by its user.

 

[Masamune]

Gravity is trash, don't use it, unless you want to be innovative just for the sake of it.

B-but muh meta!

I wouldn't say it's trash in the slightest. It's actually a very underrated strategy, although teams have to be generally built around it. For example, I've been running a gravity stall team - all hazards, phazers, etc - and am currently 15-3 with it on the OU ladder (remains to be seen how it works higher up, but off to a good start). It's a difficult thing to build your team around, but really effective if you manage to build one properly. Don't knock it until you've tried it!

 

[alexwolf]

B-but muh meta!

I wouldn't say it's trash in the slightest. It's actually a very underrated strategy, although teams have to be generally built around it. For example, I've been running a gravity stall team - all hazards, phazers, etc - and am currently 15-3 with it on the OU ladder (remains to be seen how it works higher up, but off to a good start). It's a difficult thing to build your team around, but really effective if you manage to build one properly. Don't knock it until you've tried it!

Gravity strategies have always been gimmicky and unviable, because Gravity lasts for too little turns and its benefits are not worth the turn spent, or rather, there are much better things you could be doing instead of setting up with stall teams, such as set up hazards or spread status. The best you can do with Gravity is use it on Landorus-T to get past checks such as Rotom-W and Skarmory, but that's it.

 

[Masamune]

Gravity strategies have always been gimmicky and unviable, because Gravity lasts for too little turns and its benefits are not worth the turn spent, or rather, there are much better things you could be doing instead of setting up with stall teams, such as set up hazards or spread status. The best you can do with Gravity is use it on Landorus-T to get past checks such as Rotom-W and Skarmory, but that's it.

It might not be the most effective strategy going, but to say it's always been unviable is pretty naive. Admittedly, it was pretty bad in DPP, but it was one of the stronger alternative strategies in BW with the increased access to the move. It does a lot more than simply helping out Lando-T, too (the bonus accuracy is nice, and rendering everything susceptible to spikes/toxic spikes is great). Just because it's hardly seen these days, that in no way makes it a gimmick. It's strong, it just requires a lot of support and the right team.

To each their own, but it's perfectly viable and has been for quite a while now.

 

[Martin]

I wouldn't say it's trash in the slightest. It's actually a very underrated strategy, although teams have to be generally built around it.

Actually gravity strategies tend to be standalone users like Landorus (see: gen 5 Gravity Landorus(-T))

 

[Masamune]

Actually gravity strategies tend to be standalone users like Landorus (see: gen 5 Gravity Landorus(-T))

Not necessarily - for example, if your gravity team has a number of hazard users to take advantage of the flight removal, you'd be wise to include a spinblocker. Gravity is most effective when a team is built around it (even if there are a number of standalone sets that utilize it well).

Refer to the bottom of this page for a good Gravity team from last generation. The article as a whole, although somewhat outdated, still has relevant information.

 

[Martin]

Not necessarily - for example, if your gravity team has a number of hazard users to take advantage of the flight removal, you'd be wise to include a spinblocker. Gravity is most effective when a team is built around it (even if there are a number of standalone sets that utilize it well).

Refer to the bottom of this page for a good Gravity team from last generation. The article as a whole, although somewhat outdated, still has relevant information.

read: tend

but Gravity is still one of my favourite moves on Pokemon which rely on low-accuracy moves like Stone Miss and Focus Miss. It isn't generally a good strat tho, simply due to the shortness of its effects.

 

[Masamune]

read: tend

but Gravity is still one of my favourite moves on Pokemon which rely on low-accuracy moves like Stone Miss and Focus Miss. It isn't generally a good strat tho, simply due to the shortness of its effects.

Gravity use - or at least successful Gravity use - tends to require a team, though. Apart from that Lando-I set you quoted, there are few, if any good standalone sets. As fun as Gravity/Thunder/Blizzard/Hydro Pump LO Starmie is, it doesn't work without the proper support. Sure, Gravity's effect is short (not denying that), but that's why it's imperative you get the most out of your remaining turns by planning carefully in advance and constructing your team to take full advantage.

Also note that Gravity teams must operate outside of Gravity sometimes, which renders its duration irrelevant. If it had to be used every five turns, that'd blow, but it doesn't. Simply drop it when you get the chance and think you can make the next few turns count.

I really wish Light Clay effected Trick Room/Magic Room and Gravity, it'd open up so many cool new teambuilding strats.

 

[tehy]

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 312-368 (105 - 123.9%)

I've never really seen gravity strats work effectively and it's always seemed meh at best, with the landoes being the occasion. Unless someone's used it effectively (in high level competition!!!), lets just stop talking about it

 

[Siggu]

The problem with Gravity Earthquake on Metagross is that it's not a Ground-type. If it had STAB on Earthquake, it could have been worth using, I think...

 

[branflakes]

Haze on Tentacruel seems interesting, but I'm pretty sure most CM Mega Sableye have Will-O-Wisp. Which means Tentacruel loses because it has no recovery.

 

[Martin]

idk what I think about Haze Tenta. It seems really situational, and Pokemon like Azu shouldn't be trying to set up if Tentacruel is still alive anyway, like Branflakes325 said, most CM M-Sableye win anyway cause of the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Dark Pulse, CroBro beats it with Scald as it has recovery while Tentacruel doesn't, or it beats it anyway if it carries Psyshock. The only one that you listed that it actually DOES beat is Clefable, which is better handled with Acid Spray anyway as it deals damage and can put it below +0. It isn't bad per se, but Haze lost its only niche when Baton Pass clause happened as Haze's main niche was the ability to reliably beat Baton Pass chains.

 

[Jojobobo]

Here's something weird I thought I'd share with the world:

Bouffalant @ Focus Sash/Expert Belt/Whatever
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Head Charge
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt

I have a problem on my team with Ferrothorn, sashed Breloom leads, Bisharp leads and Mega Venusaur - so Bouffalant was my solution. Sap Sipper allows you to switch in on very obvious grass moves aimed at anything weak to them (I have both Manaphy and Azumarill on my team so it's fairly easy to do). This set hard walls Ferrothorn and can set up a Swords Dance, then obtaining the KO:

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (81 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bouffalant: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- 7.5% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Bouffalant Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 342-404 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Against sashed Breloom leads, swap in on the Spore reduce it to the 1% with Zen Headbutt, then swap in something that resists Mach Punch and has priority (Azu) or for me I use Red Cards which are another option:

252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bouffalant: 224-266 (56.8 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Bouffalant Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 306-362 (117.2 - 138.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It puts the heat on offensive Mega-Venusaur if you manage to switch into a Grass move, doing more than the 50% it can recover from Synthesis, if you predict the switch to something else you can do hard damage with Head Charge (an Expert Belt allows you to put heat on defensive variants too):

+1 252+ Atk Bouffalant Zen Headbutt vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 214-254 (59.6 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Lastly, I use it with a Sash in case a Bisharp comes in and boosts like crazy. Superpower OHKOs all variants, and can also OHKO Heatran and Chansey at the +2. Head Smash hits very hard, and will do heavy damage to anything on the frail side:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bouffalant: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 265-313 (92.6 - 109.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

The main Draw Back of this set is it is completely walled by Sableye, who is immune to all it's attacks. I will also say I use this on a Trick Room team, so it may be more viable in that context. I thought it was worthy of a mention and that others might be able to suggest sets that are conventionally OU viable. It's certainly the best Sap Sipper that I've come across.

Here's a replay of it hard walling Ferro and then OHKOing the Rotom-W switch: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-194481185

 

[jpw234]

This Tentacruel set beats CM Mega-Sableye much better and has a lot of extra benefits.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Substitute

 

[Invok3r]

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Solar Beam
- Roost


Although it looks nooby at first, physical zard y definitely has its perks. The idea behind this set was to lure in special walls such as chansey and sylveon, and 2hko them with sun boosted flare blitz. Unlike zard x, zard y has access to drought solar beam, which can deal massive damage to mons such as quagsire, rotom, and slowbro. Also, max attack eq kills heatran, which is a common switchin. Overall, physical zard y is an interesting concept that can work well against stall and balanced teams. I have an rmt of this set here, so feel free to check it out if you liek!

 

[Politoad]

Whimsicott @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Rash Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- U-turn
- Switcheroo

I love this thing. I sure do. This thing may look like 'terrible because of its underaverage 77 SpA', but actually checks a lot of common Pokemon. It has Infiltrator which breaks through subs, that's also a useful niche, plus the fact that it can run Modest without missing out on outspeeding any Pokemon. Moonblast and Giga Drain are two powerful STAB attacks, U-turn allows Whimsicott to keep up the momentum and Switcheroo can cripple stuff by preventing them from setting up hazards (such as Ferrothorn or Skarmory, though Whimsicott has to be extremely wary of their STABs). The EVs in HP ensure it is capable of tanking a Psyshock from Life Orb Latios after Stealth Rock. It outspeeds and beats (Or OHKOes, or has a good chance to OHKO) the following Pokemon in OU / BL (assuming Stealth Rock is up):

- Greninja (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 320-378 (111.8 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Offensive Garchomp after rocks (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 306-362 (85.7 - 101.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Dragonite after rocks (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 242-288 (74.9 - 89.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Adamant Mega Swampert in the rain (252+ SpA Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 352-420 (95.9 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Hydreigon (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 1032-1216 (614.2 - 723.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Keldeo (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Terrakion (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, can take a Stone Edge)
- Latios (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 222-264 (73.5 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, can take a Psyshock)
- Latias (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 192-228 (63.7 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, can take a Psyshock)
- Breloom (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Breloom: 236-282 (72.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal, can tank any hit thrown at it, immune to Leech Seed and Spore)
- Mega-Gyarados (At +1) (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 192-228 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, must be wary of Ice Fang, however.)
- Kyurem-Black (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 264-312 (67.5 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, has to fear Ice Beam)
- Offensive Mamoswine (252+ SpA Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mamoswine: 320-380 (89.1 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Mandibuzz (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 224-266 (52.9 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, cant do anything back)
- Mega-Medicham (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 276-326 (105.7 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Rotom-Wash (252+ SpA Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, cant do anything back)
- Mega-Sableye (Only if lacking Calm Mind) (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 216-254 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)
- Slowbro (Only if lacking Calm Mind) (252+ SpA Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, Ice Beam only 2HKOes, has to be wary of an eventual Fire Blast)
- Crawdaunt (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 390-458 (145.5 - 170.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Weavile (252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Thoughts?