ORAS Doubles Viability Rankings [Nominations]

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Arcticblast

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Diancie rising to A Yes should be obvious.
Azumarill rising to A+ No doesn't seem as good any more tbh
Zapdos rising to A- Yes - not bad bulk, checks birds well, has Tailwind
Bisharp rising to A+ Yes should have been there anyway, Intimidate is stupid common
Swampert rising to A Yes strongth
Mamoswine rising to A- No lol does this even beat Mence
Sylveon rising to A- Yes SCREAM
Heatran falling to A No yeah it's really good right now, particularly Shuca Tran, which can beat a ton of new Megas
Venusaur falling to A- Yes lol sun right now
Latias rising to A- Yes CM Mega Latias is amazing and you should use it.
 

xzern

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  • Diancie rises to A
  • Azumarill stays in A-
  • Zapdos stays in B
  • Bisharp rises to A+
  • Swampert rises to A
  • Mamoswine stays in B
  • Sylveon rises to A-
  • Heatran stays in A+
  • Venusaur drops to A-
  • Latias rises to A-

This week, nominations will open up for pokemon to move to the B+, B, and B- ranks. Please include valid reasoning in nominating a pokemon to either rise or fall.
 

xzern

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ok since nobody is nominating i guess i'll just break the ice

Darkrai: B -> B+
Darkrai is an amazingly underrated threat in doubles. It boasts an impressive base 135 special attack and 125 speed, outpacing such threats as mega salamence and then proceeding to KO it with a life orb boosted ice beam. Darkrai is outpaced by only skymin and deo-a, both which can be easily taken care of via fake out/priority support.

(idc if these defense spreads are weird, theyre from the analyses)
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 351-413 (99.7 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 333-393 (90.4 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Cresselia: 221-265 (49.7 - 59.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
 

Vivillon: D --> B-

With the addition of Tailwind, Vivillon has moved from a shitty Quiver Dancer to a really cool and underrated support mon. Compound Eyes Sleep Powder allows it to be a nuisance on the field while Tailwind supports the team. Hurricane is a really cool move after getting the Compound Eyes boost, being fairly powerful and has a nice chance of confusion. Rage Powder, for redirecting weaker moves or a final powerful attack, and Safeguard are great options for the last slot. I really suggest you give this mon a try.
 

xzern

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dont reveal my strats qsns :(((((

just so this post isnt useless, i'm going to nominate Conkeldurr to move down from A- to B+. It's simply just useless outside of trick room what with all the mega salamences running around and most definitely does not come to par with the definition of an A rank pokemon. Additionally, it does little to nothing to the common fairies known as sylveon, aromatisse, azumarill, and mega diancie (maybe). Its best set is probably offensive trick room, and even then, it's ohkoed by a common talonflame. Trick room isnt even that good in xy to begin with.

252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 96 HP / 80 Def Conkeldurr: 354-421 (94.4 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 96 HP / 80 Def Conkeldurr: 342-404 (91.2 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 96 HP / 80 SpD Conkeldurr: 258-306 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
again, idk the weird spreads, they're from the analyses so yea
 
Sharpedo-Mega C+ ===> B

Baby steps mighty shark..

There is no denying that mega pedo has its weaknesses (re: a gentle breeze or an aggressive tickling), but Shark's advantage lies in the fins of its pre-evo ability. The way its tough jaws are able to maim mence (ice fang) and swallow cress (crunch) is only rivaled by defiant bisharp, and its lack of priority (an underwhelming aqua jet) can be played off alternatively with a well timed destiny bond. Though this Mako lacks the resilience or cunning of its counterparts found in the poker and real estate industries, Mega-Sharpedo will readily scavenge the remains of a TR or sun team with pleasure. Some moong support turns this thing from a paper bag into a glass cannon.
 


Milotic

Looking at its stats and movepool, it seems to be outclassed by Suicune, which has much better physical bulk, has moves like Calm Mind and Tailwind and is faster, while milotic only having higher SpDef and little higher SpAtk.
What makes Milotic not outclassed by suicune is the fact Milotic is only viable pokemon to use incredible ability Competitive. This, along with great bulk and typing what Milotic has, makes it incredible counters, if not even actually one of the best counters to Intimidate. Milotic is actually huge threat for Intimidate-based teams; it will keep getting those +2 against those teams if it isnt killed quickly, which may result into (if Milotic user is lucky) Milotic sweep, which may be pretty frustating for opponent. Also, even thought it overall has worse movepool than Suicune, it still has usefull moves like Icy Wind, Magic Coat and Recover (tho Protect is possibly better anyway for longetivity).

Milotic has its flaws however. Not just that Suicune may be better for many teams, but the fact it has overall almost nothing against other bulky waters other than HP grass, but its weak coming from base 100 sp atk unless you use something like LO/Specs, latter also being not good on Milotic due to its mediocre movepool.

Definely, C+ seems pretty low for it, especially when its pretty popular and good alternative for Suicune, i say that Milotic should raise straight way to
C+ ===> B+
C+ ===> B-



Mega Altaria

It first may look like outclassed by Sylveon, mostly due to it uses Mega slot unlike Sylveon which also can use items. However this is not fact, and M-Altaria has many niches over Sylveon. It first of all, gets MUCH better coverage than Sylveon, most notably fire coverage like Fire Blast/Heat Wave, also getting access to STAB Draco Meteor. It also has Dragon typing, giving it huge 7 resistances and 1 immunity, actually its alot for non-steel type, however, also having weaknesses to Ice, Fairy and Steel, which all are pretty commonly used attacking moves. Great typing allows M-Altaria to wall common threats like Zard-Y and most of Dragons. In normal form, Altaria is Dragon/Flying, allowing it easily switch onto EQs and grass attacks like Leaf Storm of M-Sceptile. M-Altaria also gets access to Tailwind, very useful support move, giving M-Altaria also access to speed control

M-Altaria, however, has its flaws. Sylveon can do many same things but better, having higher sp atk overall due to it can hold items like Specs, but most importantly, it doesnt take your mega slot. Still, despite that, Mega Altaria is definely not entirely outclassed by Sylveon. So...
E ===> B-



Mega Audino

Last mentioning this thing. It may have its niches, but like M-Altaria, it takes mega slot when there is pokes that does the job similarly, but unlike M-Altaria, which has lots of niches and is definely viable, this thing, other than its typing and few moves, has not much over Cresselia. Cresselia has actually move bulk, better movepool and MUCH better ability that is not lol useless and luck based, while it can still hold items like Sitrus Berry or Light Clay, and DOESNT NEED MEGA SLOT. M-Audino, on other hand, only thing that it has over Cresselia is arguably better typing and lol 5 points better sp atk. Its still not the best in the world, as Normal on it is entirely useless, sure, it gives you ghost immunity, but 2 most common ghosts, Gengar and Aegislash, has 2nd STAB that hits M-Audino for SE dmg. It also loses very usefull Fighting-resistance, and has no usable Normal STAB, so Normal type is totally useless on this thing as for Normal STAB, it gets Hyper Voice, but idk how usefull it is, as its pathetically weak even after STAB.
M-Audino has few interesting moves that Cressy doesnt have, though.
Simple Beam can turn something like Volcarona with Quiver Dance into total monster, basically giving Volcarona (or any QD user) Geomancy that doesnt require Power Herb, and we all know how nasty Xerneas is in Ubers. It also gets Yawn, too, which gives nice sleeping support if you dont have it. Both moves are however mostly gimmicky, so keep this on mind.

Cresselia just does most things better than M-Audino. Unless you hate Cresselia/dont want Psychic type for some reason, or you dont have Mega yet, i honestly dont recommend using this thing. It has its advantages, and its not 100% outclassed, but well...
Its totally not B-rank material...so:

B- ===> C

Honorable mentions:

Heliolisk

Its actually pretty good on certain teams. Its excellent in rain teams for multiple reasons. It has excellent ability as Dry Skin, which not just gives you very usefull Water immunity, but any Water type move heals you. In rain, it also becomes basically an activated Poison Heal. Its one of the few pokes that has Glare, which is arguably better than T-wave now as M-Sceptile and M-Swampert being popular. Unlike most Electric types, it has decent offensive coverage too, like Dark Pulse, Focus Blast and Surf. It also actually walls Aegislash that doesnt carry Sacred Sword. Heliolisk is however frail, VERY frail, its stats overall arent great at all, and there are possibly better Electric types to use.
It sure has a niche though on certain teams.

E ===> C+.



Dragalge

Adaptability is released, so this guy is now atleast viable (yay!). Its speed is fantastic for Trick Room teams. It actually has pretty decent bulk too, so it can few (not so many though) hits. Dragalge gets Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt and Focus Blast as pretty good coverage moves. However, what makes it really effective on Trick Room is...Dat adaptability Draco Meteor. Yep. You heard right. 260 BP move. That reminds me of Hyper Beam Refrigerate Aurorus, but it actually doesnt need to recharge (dat -2 tho). butdatfairywillstopdatubermegaunstoppablemuhdracometeor? Enjoy taking 180 BP SE Sludge Bomb into face...mawile tho walls this thing. However, Dragalge really NEEDS Trick Room to work. Its too slow and pretty bad even with Adaptability outside Trick Room, and not enough bulky. Maybe you could use Follow Me user, but idk, better just put it into Trick Room. And like someone mentioned earlier, Trick Room isnt as viable anymore.

It works only on Trick Room, but its very unigue and has its niche.

E ===> C+

PS: sorry for my not-the-best english
 
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nyttyn

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Commenting on the various proposals raised -

Darkrai has access to STAB Snarl, which is really cool and often overlooked. Very powerful move.
Vivvilion isn't really B rank, C+ at best. Tailwind is cool but it's slow getting it up, hurricane is really let down by base 90 spatk, and rage powder is more or less entirely useless on it with its extreme lack of bulk. Sure sleep powder is kind of cool but frankly sleep powder is a ho-hum move to rely on - we've all experienced first hand how badly it can hurt you when it misses, and at a rather painful 75% accuracy, shit misses. Doesn't help that grass types are immune to it now, safety goggle follow me, rage powder etc.
Milotic is a weak sack of shit even with +2 spatk, is slow, and really is just lackluster entirely. You can't build around gaining the +2 bonus since you can't always ensure it, which leaves it either a weak sack of shit even at +2 or a weak sack of shit mon at +0, and while it has access to Icy Wind, it loses out on Helping Hand and has no redirection tools. C+ is good, it can work sometimes but it's not really the first or second mon you'd have in mind for bulky water.
Mega Altaria - painfully outclassed by salsamence atm for the role of physical sweeper, and suffers stiff competition from both sylveon and mega gardevoir. I think B- is too high for it but it's definitely no D rank mon. Once salssanachomence leaves its access to powerful pixelate dragon dance will probably make it a B ranker, if not higher - only problem is that salsamix still is in the tier.
Mega Audino - yeah it's just a pile of garbage. if only it wasn't a mega.
Dragalge - yeah sure.


now proposal of my own

Gothitelle - B --> C+

this thing is just incredibly niche. It's weak as hell (base 95 special attack stat, only access to the rather ho-hum psychic STAB), slow as hell (65 speed, which still isn't slow enough to be reaaaallly good for trick room), and has okay bulk (75/95/110 isn't really bad, but it isn't really outstanding either). movepool wise, it's got some good offensive options but its support options are almost non-existent (doens't even get WoW to lock in a physical mon unlike megar). yeah it can work on the right team, and in the right situation it'll put in work, but shadow tag alone isn't enough to make it B rank, especially not in a meta with things like mega salsamence, mega metagross, and cube rolling around with their huge muscles and significant bulk.
 
While i agree that Suicune is most of time much better than Milotic, i disagree that Milotic is weak with +2. Its pretty weak without the boost indeed (unless you use LO or specs, specs atleast being stupid idea on Milotic, LO may work tho), but it honestly hits damn hard with +2:

+2 244+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Mega Mawile: 328-387 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Milotic: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 244+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scrafty: 193-228 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
224 Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Milotic: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 244+ SpA Milotic Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 392-464 (122.5 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Milotic: 227-269 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 244+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Hitmontop: 285-336 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
136+ Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Milotic: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Milotic: 310-366 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Milotic: 364-429 (92.3 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 244+ SpA Milotic Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 360-424 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Milotic has ability to check most Intimidators (including Mega Mawile). Mega Mence with D-E however easily beats Milotic, as non boosted it has good chance to oneshot Milotic even with minor Def investment. Icy Wind is used over Ice Beam, as Mega Mence is used often with Follow Me/Rage Powder users.
Milotic isnt weak sack with +2, you see, that Hydro Pump actually hits like truck . However, getting +2 is situnational, and like i said earlier, Milotic is rather situnational mon, and slightly depended form that Competitive boost. It definely is viable on teams that fears Intimidates and Bisharp doesnt fit your team somehow. When thinking however, B+ is far too high, slightly overrated it, but C+ is rather low. Lets update it:
C+ ===> B-

Oh, and:
Vivvilion isn't really B rank, C+ at best. Tailwind is cool but it's slow getting it up, hurricane is really let down by base 90 spatk, and rage powder is more or less entirely useless on it with its extreme lack of bulk. Sure sleep powder is kind of cool but frankly sleep powder is a ho-hum move to rely on - we've all experienced first hand how badly it can hurt you when it misses, and at a rather painful 75% accuracy, shit misses. Doesn't help that grass types are immune to it now, safety goggle follow me, rage powder etc.
Compound Eyes. Its effectively Spore with 97 or so accuracy.
 
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xzern

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just posting to say to poketrainer777 and nyttyn that this week, we're nominating pokemon to move to the B ranks. As for C rank nominations, I'll make sure to consider them when we do C-rank nominations next week (assuming i dont forget); your noms are very well-supported though.
 
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nyttyn

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Oh my bad, I thought you meant nominating IN the B rank, not moving too and from. My bad!

In that case Mega Latios A- --> B+ or even just B (these individual subranks are kind of silly), it's just life orb Latios but it also eats up a mega slot in exchange for not having to deal with life orb recoil. Kind of just straight out outclassed, plus the whole "eating up a mega slot for something you can get without a mega slot" thing is a negative mark against it. Not by any means impossible to put on a team but definitely embodies B imo.

Also Raikou is ranked twice, it's C+ and C? I'm pretty sure that's a mistake.
 

Fangame10

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just gonna nominate Mega Ampharos from C+ ===> B-

making it short:
-Bulky with 90Hp/105Def/110SpDef
-Pretty strong: 165SpA ~ A little less than a LO Latios and acess to strong STAB moves like thunderbolt and Dragon pulse and has Focus blast(miss) for coverage
- good typing Electric/dragon reks Rain teams and pretty much every other electric type out there and can resist, reks Mega Salamence as well
- Awesome in Trick room
- Great support movepool: Cotton guard(last turn of TR use is great), Eletric Terrain(takes away TR's amoongus weakness and powers up electric moves)
- Fabulous hair

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%)-- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Dragon Claw vs 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 300-354 (78.1 - 92.1%)-- guaranteed 2HKO
 
just gonna nominate Mega Ampharos from C+ ===> B-

making it short:
-Bulky with 90Hp/105Def/110SpDef
-Pretty strong: 165SpA ~ A little less than a LO Latios and acess to strong STAB moves like thunderbolt and Dragon pulse and has Focus blast(miss) for coverage
- good typing Electric/dragon reks Rain teams and pretty much every other electric type out there and can resist, reks Mega Salamence as well
- Awesome in Trick room
- Great support movepool: Cotton guard(last turn of TR use is great), Eletric Terrain(takes away TR's amoongus weakness and powers up electric moves)
- Fabulous hair

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%)-- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Dragon Claw vs 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 300-354 (78.1 - 92.1%)-- guaranteed 2HKO
I have to actually agree with this. Long time ago, i used to have TR team in XY battle spot doubles with Mega Amphy. It was actually one of my first competive teams EVER, but Mega Ampharos remains still one of my favorite megas.
Typing is crazy, it lives SE STAB moves and hits HARD, and has nice coverage moves like Focus Blastmiss. And damn, it was super fun to use.
 

xzern

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ok voting time
vote yes or no next to the pokemon if you agree with the new placement, some justification to your vote would be nice too

Darkrai to rise to B+
Vivillon to rise to B-
Conkeldurr to fall to B+
Sharpedo to rise to B
Milotic to rise to B-
Altaria to rise to B-
Mega Latios to fall to B+
Ampharos to rise to B-
 
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Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: Abstain
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: No
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: Yes
Mega Latios to fall to B+: No
Ampharos to rise to B-: Yes
 
Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: Yes
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: No
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: No
Mega Latios to fall to B+: Yes
Ampharos to rise to B-: Yes
 
Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: Yes
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: No
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: No
Mega Latios to fall to B+: Yes
Ampharos to rise to B-: Yes
 

DaAwesomeDude1

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Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: No
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: No
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: Yes
Mega Latios to fall to B+: Yes
Mega Ampharos to rise to B-: Yes
 

Fangame10

DOU Master of Snow-based Trick Room teams
is a Tiering Contributor
Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: Yes
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: Yes
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: No
Mega Latios to fall to B+: Yes
Mega Ampharos to rise to B-: Yes
 

Anty

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Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: Yes
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: No
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: No
Mega Latios to fall to B+: Yes
Ampharos to rise to B-: No
 
Darkrai to rise to B+: No
Vivillon to rise to B-: Yes
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B: Yes
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes (Should be B it's good)
Altaria to rise to B-: No
Mega Latios to fall to B+: Yes
Ampharos to rise to B-: Yes

No I'm not dead.
 

Laga

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Darkrai to rise to B+ yes
Vivillon to rise to B- no lol it's frailer than breloom, and gets rage powdered on the slp powder
Conkeldurr to fall to B+ yes, used to be amazing, but is in the shadow of faster fightings
Sharpedo to rise to B no, wtf??
Milotic to rise to B- yes, this thing is strong as hell, it's basically cune that beats intimidate instead of beating fast mons
Altaria to rise to B- no, completely outclassed unless you need super specific synergy
Mega Latios to fall to B+ abstain, it's good on paper, and B+ isn't that high, but I've never had trouble with it
Ampharos to rise to B- no, it's just not that good
 
Darkrai to rise to B+: Yes
Vivillon to rise to B-: Pestering but No
Conkeldurr to fall to B+: Yes, Once so huge Now just dead weight
Sharpedo to rise to B: Fudge no are you people crazy? This thing is a C threat tops..
Milotic to rise to B-: Yes
Altaria to rise to B-: No seriously no question
Mega Latios to fall to B+: abstain
Ampharos to rise to B-: Only if fangame uses it, otherwise no
 
Darkrai to rise to B+ Yes
Vivillon to rise to B- No
Conkeldurr to fall to B+ Yes
Sharpedo to rise to B No
Milotic to rise to B- Yes
Altaria to rise to B- No
Mega Latios to fall to B+ No
Ampharos to rise to B- Yes
 
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