ORAS Ubers Caelus

[Edgar]

Hey, today I'm going to be showcasing the first Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire team I built after they banned Mega-Rayquaza. Of all the new released mega evolutions Mega Salamence has always been the most interesting to me due to its amazing stats and the factor that Salamence has always been one of my favorite pokemon of all time, that made me wanna try it in Ubers even more. There's not many achievements I got with this team, I just used it on the ladder for a while and gave it to a few people (who were successful using it). There's another factor that forces me to make this RMT, I've seen a lot of people who I don't even know on the ladder with it or very, very, similar builds. My huge ego leads me to believe that many people are getting the idea of Darkceus / Salamence sun from this team which doesn't bother me at all, I just want people to know where the idea was originated. Enough of the talking, let's proceed to the teambuilding process.

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Teambuilding Process

Ok yeah the already mentioned Mega Salamence was what made me build this team so yeah, as I did last time I'll remove it during the teambuilding process as it is something that can't be changed no matter what since such thing is the idea the team is based around.

I wanted a soft Kyogre check, Electric immunity, Xerneas check and most importantly: Stealth Rock. Groudon was the mon to go if I wanted all this, it got that fire typing and ability that makes it the most threatning as well as one of the best support mons in the tier.

Xerneas is the next pokemon I looked at, a Fairy type was needed to sponge the Dragon and Dark types, which is definetely important in Ubers.

I needed a reliable Primal Groudon check, another Kyogre switch-in and a Defog user, Latias was the best pokemon I could think of, it quickly became one of my favorite members of the team holE.

Arceus-Dark was the next pokemon I chose. I was in need of a good, solid, Stallbreaker that destroys the most common Stall builds, Arceus-Dark fits that category. I find Dark-typing very underrated in this metagame, people are not running much Bulky Fairies anymore so it's very easy to wear them down and sweep with your Dark-type. Arceus-Dark also checks the Lati twins as well as Arceus-Ghost. This pokemon is also one of my favorite members of the team as it and Mega Salamence make an amazing offensive core.

I needed a Choice Scarf user that could check both Darkrai and Mewtwo but also threaten Xerneas after my Groudon has phased it out with Roar. Genesect fits on the team really well, I also like it here for other reasons that I'll mention when I get to the in-depth analysis.

This is how the team ended looking like, pretty crispE, right?

Now let's get into the in-depth analysis for each pokemon.

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Earthquake

Groudon got buffed a lot in ORAS, now that it has that Fire typing that it needed to be a much better offensive pokemon, it has an ability that allows it to be immune to Water-moves, which makes his only weakness, Ground. I chose to use the support set that my fren Hack made, it allows Groudon to take a +2 Earthquake from Extremekiller Arceus if needed. Support Primal Groudon's main niche is that it can now check Geomancy Xerneas, resisting Fairy is huge as it forces Xerneas to run Focus Blast or Hidden Power Ground to land some big damage on it. As for the moves, Stealth Rock is pretty much needed since it keeps pokemon like Ho-Oh and Mega Salamence in check, which is important. Lava Plume is a great support move that hits common switch-ins like Landorus-T, Gliscor and Lati twins, it has a good chance of landing a burn on them which is very appreciated. Roar helps me phaze pokemon like Geomancy Xerneas and incoming Primal Kyogre. Earthquake is a very strong Ground STAB move that should not be underestimated as Groudon has a base attack stat of 180.

Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

If you read the teambuilding process part you'll know that I picked Xerneas so I can sponge Dark and Dragon-type moves with relative ease. The reason why I chose cleric Xerneas on this team is because a Fairy pivot like Klefki or just regular Geomancy Xerneas isn't enough of a check to Dark types, most of bulky Fairy types lost ussage because they give Primal Groudon a free turn which makes Dark-types like Yveltal, Darkrai and Arceus-Dark so much better. For those reasons and some more I figured I should use the defensive, that would not only allow me to check Dark-types pretty well but it also helps me check Mega Salamence in a much easier way and another thing I really like about cleric Xerneas is that it allows me to not be a coward against status with Mega Salamence, I can take out Klefki with Earthquake after it paralyses me and then Aromatherapy with Xerneas. The moveset is pretty much the same ol' cleric one, Moonblast is a strong STAB move that OHKOs stuff like Yveltal and Darkrai. Aromatherapy helps me heal my pokemon when status'd. Rest is Xerneas' only reliable form of recovery and Sleep Talk is for not being completely useless while sleeping.

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Extremespeed / Explosion

Some people think Genesect is pretty bad in ORAS, I disagree. This team shows that Genesect can be very useful. On this team especifically Genesect helps my a lot since its STAB U-turn keeps things Mewtwo and Darkrai in check, my team is a little slow so it definetely appreciates that. The thing that I like the most about Genesect though it's its ability to generate momentum as the common U-Turn switch-ins give my offensive threats free turns. Some examples of this are: U-Turn the incoming Groudon allows me to go to Latias and drop a Draco Meteor, go to Lugia on the U-Turn and my Arceus-Dark comes in, go to Ho-Oh on the U-turn and my Salamence gets a free turn. But yeah, getting technical and all of that, the EV spread is the one I've been using since BW2, it allows me to outspeed other Scarf users like Zekrom and Xerneas as well as +1 Dragon Dance Rayquaza. The moveset is also pretty known, U-Turn is a good Bug-STAB that generates momentum (as explained above), Iron Head allows me to check pokemon like Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas who would be very threatning otherwise. Ice Beam let's me handle Rayquaza in a much easier way. As for the last move, I've been debating wheather I should change Explosion for Extremespeed or not, Explosion is useful in case I really use it on Extrmekiller Arceus but Extrmespeed allows me to revenge kill Xerneas if I don't get a good roll with Iron Head if they try to Geomancy again, that would really help.

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 144 HP / 172 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog

The release of Soul Dew definetely changed the metagame for good, it gaves 2 great, viable Defog users in the form of Lati@s, meanng that there's no longer need to use Defog Arceus or Giratina-O on every team. I chose to use the more defensive version of the Lati twins, Latias so I can have an easier time switching into Primal Groudon and Kyogre. Latias is also a great offensive, being able to switch into a lot of stuff while still hitting stuff really hard with Draco Meteor or Psyshock. The EV spread I use is based arount the same spread I used in BW2, only with a few tweaks so I can live 2 Stone Edges from Primal Groudon without Stealth Rock being on the field. The speed is used for outspeeding Jolly Garchomp as well as speedcripping some Arceus formes. As for the moves, Draco Meteor hits stuff really hard, it pressures Lugia to always switch into this and Roost, which gives my Arceus-Dark free turns. Psyshock 2HKOs Geomancy Xerneas with Stealth Rock up, it also hits Ho-Oh for good damage. Roost is the best form of recovery that Latias has and allows it stall out pokemon like Kyogre and Groudon. Defog is a great utility move you can use for hazard control, best way to use Latias in my opinion.

? (Salamence) (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Mega Salamence or as my friend BKC and I address it "?", is one of the best Mega Evolutions in ORAS. It has a great base Defense of 130 and amazing base 120 Speed, this allows "?" to outspeed a lot of stuff while still checking stuff like Groudon and being a massive threat thanks to having access to Dragon Dance and the ability Aerilate. While most people run Jolly max Speed I wanted to try a bulky Dragon Dance that would not only have a role as a sweeper but it would help "?" to fullfill a role as a support pokemon that is able to handle most of the physical threats. Talking about the EV spread, it allows "?" to fully check Extremekiller Arceus (you live a +3 Extremespeed and you 2HKO with Return) as well as outspeed Modest base 90s like Primal Kyogre in case you want to Mega Evolve and Revenge kill them. The spread also allows "?" to 2HKO Dialga on the switch with unboosted Earthquake as well as 2HKOing Primal Groudon, Physically Defensive Yveltal with Earthquake and Return respectively, as well as OHKOing Geomancy Xerneas with +1 Return after Stealth Rocks. It also has a chance to live a Judgment from Arceus-Rock if you're at full, Arceus-Rock is the counter so not much you can do about that haha. About the moves, Return is an extremely good move to use on "?", its ability Aerilate turns it into a Flying-type move and makes it hit insanely hard. Earthquake is the coverage you should use on "?" as it deals with stuff like Klefki, Aegislash and Heatran. Dragon Dance makes "?" a reliable as it can set up on stuff like Primal Groudon Groudon and Arceus lol. Roost is a great recovery option that allows "?" to switch into stuff and then get its soul back.

Arceus (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
- Recover

It all started with me needing a stallbreaker. I checked most the RMTs people had posted during the Mega-Rayquaza era, from looking at that I concluded that Arceus-Dark was the stallbreaker that would fit best on my team, it has amazing offensive synergy with "?" and Latias as well as the ablity to check the Lati twins and all those bulky pokemon people are using. In my opinion, Arceus-Dark is the best Arceus forme in ORAS like I can't even fathom why it is so good. I swept a lot of people with it on the ladder because most of the teams give this pokemon a lot of opportunities to set up. The EV spread is pretty much known, 248 HP gives Arceus significant bulk, 4 Defense EVs makes Genesect get the Sp.Atk boost instead of the Attack one before setting up Calm Minds and max Speed allows me to speed tie Jolly Salamance as well as some Arceus formes. Judgment is its strongest move and hits a lot of things pretty hard, Refresh allows it to absorb status like Toxic and Thunder Wave and then remove it, that's why it is a solid Stallbreaker and Recover is a great, reliable form of recovery.


​

Threats:

Calm Mind Arceus-Ground is probably the biggest threat to the team, it can set up on a lot of mons on my teams, I used Grass Knot Latias for a while but I found Psyshock more useful and I just accepted Arceus-Ground as a weakness.

Choice Band Big Bird is annoying as well, I pretty much have to get momentum with Genesect and go to Salamence just so I can avoid the prediction of Brave Bird / Earthquake.

Power-Up Punch Mega Kangaskhan can be pretty annoying I normally check the Fake Out set with Salamence but the Power-Up Punch set will most likely get a kill before I can check it with Salamence or Arceus-Dark.


Conclusion:
This team is pretty fun and I enjoyed playing with it. There are obviously some weakneses but I just wanted to showcase it because I've seen a lot of randoms with it and a lot of people using similar builds, which leads me to think I was one of the first people (if not the first) to use this of team archetype. Feel free to steal as I won't be using it anymore I think lol.

​

Shoutouts

#sharks
IDM

Frens:

aim
CrashinBoomBang
gr8astard
Mizuhime
Key
PROBLEMS
Hack
mencemeat
Wepwn
Lord Moet II
kokoloko
New Breed
Soulgazer
Calloflochie
Rewer
Sinclair
chimpact
Jirachee
Harsha
ium
kill yourself
CTC
Ginku
Funkasaurus
BLINGAS ♥

y I have a lot of frens.

Importable

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Earthquake

Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Extreme Speed

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 144 HP / 172 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog

? (Salamence) (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Arceus (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Also if you dont get the title:

08:24 edgar how would u name a Mega Mence RMT ?
08:24 edgar anyone??
08:28 McMeghan Roman mythology[edit]
08:28 McMeghan Caelus, personification of the sky, equivalent to the Greek Uranus

thanks to Lord McMeghan for saving me from the struggle.


God I'm finally done.

 

[VanGru]

Nice team but (espeed) Genesect has to be hasty, it comes from a certain event.

 

[Edgar]

Oh changed it thanks

 

[BKC]

?

 

[Inspirited]

Hi fren, I love the way the team looks and there are very few ways I can think of to shrink the threatlist, but one way you can would be to change Lava Plume on Groudon for Stone Edge. Once Ho-Oh figures out it walls your Groudon, Mence is under a stupid amount of pressure. By running Stone Edge, you can help take this pressure of eating a CB Brave Bird off of mence by trading its role of checking Ho-Oh softly, to being a Landorus-T etc switch in; something it can check much easier because of Roost. This makes Gliscor annoying sure, but you have aroma Xern and Roost to help give mence a shot of sweeping without the effects of Toxic being permanent.

Another benefit to having Explosion is that it OHKOes Ho-Oh. Since you have a very solid switch in to Arceus-Ghost, your opponent would probably be more enticed to go out to their big bird rather than their Ghost God on Genesect, which can make it a very effective lure for the bird. This does put a lot of pressure on Groudon in the GeoXern department though, so I would say the move choice there is still a toss-up. Its just something to think about.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Once again, cool build :]

 

[steelskitty]

Fren...

I don't want to change around many of the Pokemon since I feel doing so harms the overall structure of the team, you can run theoretically Arceus-Rock over Arceus-Dark to patch up the weakness to Ho-Oh but this compounds a weakness to Arceus-Ground unless you run Grass Knot Latias, except it can't fit that here. I think the team's very weak to fairies in its current form; you have three Fairy-weak Pokemon and depend on Primal Groudon to check Geomancy Xerneas, they're starting to EV to be faster than Genesect now so that's not a reliable answer by any means. This is bad versus smart Xerneas players, who will wear Groudon out with hazards or neutral/resisted attacks before setting up and trying to sweep. I also feel like the team could be seen as a little Yveltal-weak if it Taunts the Arceus-Dark switch-in, as physically defensive Xerneas gets mangled by Oblivion Wing and it forces Groudon, Latias, and quite possibly Genesect out. I think Klefki should be run over Genesect because of this; it's a more reliable switch-in to Xerneas than Genesect and last-second status makes it invaluable for messing with big threats like Arceus-Ground. Just stick with the standard set; 252 hp / 4 def / 252 spd with toxic / twave / spikes / play rough. Offensively the only major thing you lose is the momentum of U-turn but this is compensated for with your solid defensive backbone, so I'd strongly suggest the change. While losing Explosion is a little sad the move's heavily prediction-reliant to handle Ho-Oh anyway, and giving up Genesect might not always be worth it even then. Extreme Speed doesn't seem like it does much of anything and Klefki has priority to check threats anyway.

I like Precipice Blades over Earthquake on Primal Groudon as it prevents support Arceus-Dark/Ghost from simply waltzing in on you and Defogging or gaining momentum some other way. You don't need Earthquake generally as the things that you might NEED to hit it versus (mainly Xerneas and Ekiller) can simply be phased out except in a last-Pokemon scenario, which is pretty specific. I guess it's just personal preference but there's very little reason to run Earthquake here, it's just a little too weak and it won't even have a chance of OHKOing opposing Primal Groudon unless they've switched into Stealth Rock a few times beforehand. I also support Wreckdra's suggestion of Stone Edge over Lava Plume for reasons he stated, obviously run Impish over Relaxed if you do this though.

Xerneas is fine, I think you run a little more speedcreep than that but I totally understand not posting the exact number in an RMT. Latias also seems cool, I've never seen that spread before but I like it a lot.

I prefer Double-Edge to Return on Mega Salamence and running more Attack because you do stuff like OHKOing support Arceus after Stealth Rock... I think Return is really weak and, even though this Salamence has less Attack than it needs to guarantee a bunch of KOs, you only have a 50% chance to OHKO opposing 0/4 Extreme Killer Arceus after Stealth Rock with your main STAB at +1 which can be rather annoying. The EV spread seems alright from what you mentioned but please run Double-Edge over Return at the very least.

Finally, I think Arceus-Dark should run Will-o-Wisp over Refresh. This is mainly to check Rayquaza, which can be a threat when played properly. I also feel like Refresh isn't necessary to absorb status since you have Xerneas to cleric. Also, Arceus-Dark's Will-o-Wisp also lets it serve as at least a soft check Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, which is invaluable as it tears the team to shreds in its current form. Finally, it can handle Kangaskhan, bar the uncommon Low Kick or Power-Up Punch variant. Even though I get the appeal of beating checks like Blissey, I feel Will-o-Wisp is necessary for these reasons.

That's all I have, nice team and good luck.

 

[Edgar]

Hi fren, I love the way the team looks and there are very few ways I can think of to shrink the threatlist, but one way you can would be to change Lava Plume on Groudon for Stone Edge. Once Ho-Oh figures out it walls your Groudon, Mence is under a stupid amount of pressure. By running Stone Edge, you can help take this pressure of eating a CB Brave Bird off of mence by trading its role of checking Ho-Oh softly, to being a Landorus-T etc switch in; something it can check much easier because of Roost. This makes Gliscor annoying sure, but you have aroma Xern and Roost to help give mence a shot of sweeping without the effects of Toxic being permanent.

Another benefit to having Explosion is that it OHKOes Ho-Oh. Since you have a very solid switch in to Arceus-Ghost, your opponent would probably be more enticed to go out to their big bird rather than their Ghost God on Genesect, which can make it a very effective lure for the bird. This does put a lot of pressure on Groudon in the GeoXern department though, so I would say the move choice there is still a toss-up. Its just something to think about.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Once again, cool build :]

This is what I consider a good rate, doing minimal changes while helping the team a lot. Thanks a lot for your suggestion WreckDra I thought of Stone Edge Primal Groudon too at first but I just love Lava Plume rofl, I will definetely try it, seems promising. Also I had Explosion at first LOL but I started finding more Geomancy Xerneases than birds so I changed it to Extreme Speed, I'm glad we both agree that Explosion is a solid option so yeah I'll test in between both moves. Thanks a lot for the rate pal :]

Fren...

I think Klefki should be run over Genesect because of this; it's a more reliable switch-in to Xerneas than Genesect and last-second status makes it invaluable for messing with big threats like Arceus-Ground. Just stick with the standard set; 252 hp / 4 def / 252 spd with toxic / twave / spikes / play rough. Offensively the only major thing you lose is the momentum of U-turn but this is compensated for with your solid defensive backbone, so I'd strongly suggest the change. While losing Explosion is a little sad the move's heavily prediction-reliant to handle Ho-Oh anyway, and giving up Genesect might not always be worth it even then. Extreme Speed doesn't seem like it does much of anything and Klefki has priority to check threats anyway.

I prefer Double-Edge to Return on Mega Salamence and running more Attack because you do stuff like OHKOing support Arceus after Stealth Rock... I think Return is really weak and, even though this Salamence has less Attack than it needs to guarantee a bunch of KOs, you only have a 50% chance to OHKO opposing 0/4 Extreme Killer Arceus after Stealth Rock with your main STAB at +1 which can be rather annoying. The EV spread seems alright from what you mentioned but please run Double-Edge over Return at the very least.

Finally, I think Arceus-Dark should run Will-o-Wisp over Refresh. This is mainly to check Rayquaza, which can be a threat when played properly. I also feel like Refresh isn't necessary to absorb status since you have Xerneas to cleric. Also, Arceus-Dark's Will-o-Wisp also lets it serve as at least a soft check Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, which is invaluable as it tears the team to shreds in its current form. Finally, it can handle Kangaskhan, bar the uncommon Low Kick or Power-Up Punch variant. Even though I get the appeal of beating checks like Blissey, I feel Will-o-Wisp is necessary for these reasons.

That's all I have, nice team and good luck.

I'll focus on this 3 paragraphs as everything is irrelevant.

1. I would agree with this suggestion but I don't for the following reasons: As you said, Klefki removes the valuable momentum that Genesect can get. I find Genesect to be a very unique member of the team, removing Genesect means trading a Ho-Oh weakness for a bigger Ho-Oh weakness, a Mewtwo weakness, a Mega Diancie weakness and just the the speed that team needs. it is true that it helps me keep Xerneas in check a little better but I don't think it's worth removing a Scarfer for something that is going to be sac'd in an attempt to check a threat.

2. I find this paragraph rather annoying, offensive even. I'll start by saying Double-Edge was considered first than Return but most of the times I ended up killing myself when facing an Arceus, I don't need to OHKO Extremekiller Arceus because I beat it 1v1 anyways, it's not supposed to be a kamikaze sweeper, it's supposed to be a set up sweeper that can also support the team against physical threats. Besides, even if Arceus tries to Will-O-Wisp me I 2HKO it even after it burns me lol, and I have a cleric that can take care of statuses. I'm going to address the last part of this paragraph, I'm not someone new at the tier and you're acting like I didn't think this through when making the set, "but please run Double-Edge over Return at the very least." this is something that you should never say when rating a team, this only makes you look very arrogant, elitist and yet ignorant. You're being a little bit too biased with your suggestion and you really try to implement a personal preference over somebody else's. At this point I stopped taking your post seriously as you totally missed the point of the set the pokemon is using and with what purpose is doing so.

3. Simply no, the reason why Arceus is even there is to break stall not to check uncommon threats. Sigh I dont even wanna answer to this anymore, I'll just say that losing Refresh forces me to keep Xerneas healthy so it can heal my stallbreaker that, instead of having the move that makes it a stallbreaker has some status that only helps against 2 pokemon instead of a complete playstyle.

I apollogize if you found my response rather rude but I had a long day and some of your suggestions just made no sense to me.

 

[malefic]

i like your team. i made something quite similar to it but with mega gengar > mega mence and some different sets, same mons though; i was toying with healing wish latias and life orb xern, also wisp > refresh darkceus since gengar helped with (some) stall. i eventually trashed the team because it was in a word, too frail (ho-oh just raped it), but using mmence > gengar and refresh darkceus alleviates most of the problems (the big ones, anyway) i had with my build so yeah, this was an insightful read for me.

 

[kokoloko]

got the right item

 

[PISTOLERO]

This is a very solid team and is probably the best use of Mega Salamence I have seen. I am also someone who falls into the trap of running Jolly Double-Edge but I can definitely see the benefit of your spread. Like Malefic, I made something somewhat similar, Arceus-Dark / Latias / Salamence / Primal Groudon / Latios / Jirachi, but with fully specially defensive Primal Groudon, Jolly Double-Edge Salamence, Defog Latias, Calm Mind Latios etc, and had problems with Xerneas.

I would like to ask whether you consider(ed) Precipice Blades on defensive Primal Groudon or not as it is something I never use but have seen many advocate. Also, you could run the 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe spread for Genesect as this optimises the rounding of +1 stats after Download, but this is an extremely small optimization and I'm not even sure it actually makes any difference damage calc-wise.

 

[Edgar]

i like your team. i made something quite similar to it but with mega gengar > mega mence and some different sets, same mons though; i was toying with healing wish latias and life orb xern, also wisp > refresh darkceus since gengar helped with (some) stall. i eventually trashed the team because it was in a word, too frail (ho-oh just raped it), but using mmence > gengar and refresh darkceus alleviates most of the problems (the big ones, anyway) i had with my build so yeah, this was an insightful read for me.

Yes, I've seen your team a few times actually haha. Yeah fair enough using WoW Arceus with Gengar breaking stall, I still think Refresh is more optimal in case you find Shed Shell Blissey and stuff but yeah I can see why it works. Thanks bro I'm glad you like the team :]

This is a very solid team and is probably the best use of Mega Salamence I have seen. I am also someone who falls into the trap of running Jolly Double-Edge but I can definitely see the benefit of your spread. Like Malefic, I made something somewhat similar, Arceus-Dark / Latias / Salamence / Primal Groudon / Latios / Jirachi, but with fully specially defensive Primal Groudon, Jolly Double-Edge Salamence, Defog Latias, Calm Mind Latios etc, and had problems with Xerneas.

I would like to ask whether you consider(ed) Precipice Blades on defensive Primal Groudon or not as it is something I never use but have seen many advocate. Also, you could run the 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe spread for Genesect as this optimises the rounding of +1 stats after Download, but this is an extremely small optimization and I'm not even sure it actually makes any difference damage calc-wise.

Yeah to be honest I always felt that full offensive "?" doesn't make much use of its stats increase and my goal was to make a set that would benefit from ?'s amazing HP, Defense and Speed stat and I feel like I did a good job since it has been doing what I planned it to do. On a side note, I don't think you need full Sp.Def Groudon since you have Jirachi (unless it's scarfed) but yeah, nice team. And yeah I guess I could do that with Genesect but like you said, it doesn't really matter haha. Thanks a lot, glad you like the team :]

 

[Fireburn]

I also have a very similar looking team (what are the odds) except with Impish Refresh Salamence > Adamant EQ, Klefki > Phys Def Xerneas, and EQ Latios > Latias (the last one is probably suboptimal but it helps break Klefki and Heatran since Mence does not have EQ itself). It still has a pretty large weakness to CM Groundceus (unless Klefki suicide Toxics it) and PuP Mega Kanga but it handles CB Ho-Oh much better since Impish Mence withstands its assaults a lot more effectively and can heal off burns itself, and I rather enjoy having Keys for extra Xerneas insurance/Spikes support for Genesect/Mence. That being said I don't have many actual suggestions since this build is obviously solid, just wanted to mention how I had tinkered with the general framework I guess.

Great team! :]

 

[steelskitty]

I'll focus on this 3 paragraphs as everything is irrelevant.

1. I would agree with this suggestion but I don't for the following reasons: As you said, Klefki removes the valuable momentum that Genesect can get. I find Genesect to be a very unique member of the team, removing Genesect means trading a Ho-Oh weakness for a bigger Ho-Oh weakness, a Mewtwo weakness, a Mega Diancie weakness and just the the speed that team needs. it is true that it helps me keep Xerneas in check a little better but I don't think it's worth removing a Scarfer for something that is going to be sac'd in an attempt to check a threat.

2. I find this paragraph rather annoying, offensive even. I'll start by saying Double-Edge was considered first than Return but most of the times I ended up killing myself when facing an Arceus, I don't need to OHKO Extremekiller Arceus because I beat it 1v1 anyways, it's not supposed to be a kamikaze sweeper, it's supposed to be a set up sweeper that can also support the team against physical threats. Besides, even if Arceus tries to Will-O-Wisp me I 2HKO it even after it burns me lol, and I have a cleric that can take care of statuses. I'm going to address the last part of this paragraph, I'm not someone new at the tier and you're acting like I didn't think this through when making the set, "but please run Double-Edge over Return at the very least." this is something that you should never say when rating a team, this only makes you look very arrogant, elitist and yet ignorant. You're being a little bit too biased with your suggestion and you really try to implement a personal preference over somebody else's. At this point I stopped taking your post seriously as you totally missed the point of the set the pokemon is using and with what purpose is doing so.

3. Simply no, the reason why Arceus is even there is to break stall not to check uncommon threats. Sigh I dont even wanna answer to this anymore, I'll just say that losing Refresh forces me to keep Xerneas healthy so it can heal my stallbreaker that, instead of having the move that makes it a stallbreaker has some status that only helps against 2 pokemon instead of a complete playstyle.

Sorry that I offended you, you know I don't go out of my way to do this but I totally get how it could be interpreted that way. I started rating the team on my phone and finished on the computer and some way along there I forgot that I was suggesting Klefki on a team with defensive Xerneas. I'm actually pretty glad you caught this as it shouldn't be used, so sorry about that.

But, before this rate turns into a tedious wall of text, I should probably say that I thought about it some more and I came up with a different idea regarding the Genesect slot. You expressed concern about the momentum loss of Klefki, but I'm concerned about Genesect's bulk when it comes to checking Xerneas, so I think I found a nice middle ground between bulk and momentum.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 152 HP / 116 Atk / 28 SpD / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- U-turn
- Healing Wish

This patches up the weakness to Geomancy Xerneas because it's bulkier than Genesect and can afford to invest in bulk. It does many of the things Genesect does, but because it handles Xerneas a little better I feel it's better for the team overall.

Because one of the main uses of Genesect is revenge killing Dragon Dance Rayquaza, I altered the Jirachi spread from your old RMT so it does this. It outpaces +1 252 Speed neutral-natured Dragon Dance Rayquaza and does pretty nice damage with Ice Punch (116+ Atk Jirachi Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 292-344 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). It also gets a guaranteed 2HKO on standard 104 HP / 32 Def Geomancy Xerneas; 116+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 216-254 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO so you don't lose anything there. The HP and SpD retain as much all-around bulk as possible while still always surviving this: +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 152 HP / 28 SpD Jirachi: 281-331 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes; if you want to invest more in Atk to do better versus bulkier Geoxern, you can conceivably drop all the HP and put it in SpD and swap EVs around and put them in Atk (it needs 0 HP / 136 SpD to always live +2 Focus Blast after Stealth Rock) then that's an option as well, I just like having a little extra physical bulk granted by investing in HP as opposed to solely SDef so +2 Jolly Life Orb Extreme Killer has like a .4% chance to 2HKO you with Extreme Speed. Your choice, though.

As for the moves, U-turn is for keeping momentum versus things like earlygame Xerneas, and Iron Head is obligatory as STAB. Ice Punch nails Rayquaza like I said as well as doing alright damage versus Mega Salamence (116+ Atk Jirachi Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 212-252 (64 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO); Trick is also an option over Ice Punch if you feel you can handle Rayquaza with your teammates' support, but I don't think it's all that great since Pokemon that can't be Tricked are all over the place now. Healing Wish is really cool in the last slot, as I'm sure you already know.

I still feel that Salamence is better off with Double-Edge and Adamant because it hits harder and Arceus-Dark with Will-o-Wisp over Refresh because it trades stallbreaking for overall utility that I feel is more valuable, but this is just personal preference and I won't try to convince you to change it because of this. I hope this rate was better lol

 

[haxiom]

Hey Edgar,

This is obviously a pretty solid team and I came up with a rate in my head a while ago and forgot it. In regards to my analysis of the team, I think that the lack of a flying resist is largely what leads to Ho-Oh issues, in addition to giving it some free switches with Xerneas, Groudon, etc.

I don't really have too much to add regarding changes- I think Refresh ? which Fireburn suggested sounds pretty cool. In particular, it gives bulky ? further utility, and more reason for Return>Double-Edge. Additionally, the Pokemon Earthquake is intended to hit are all kind of punished by Groudon effectively so I don't think it's that big of an issue. I wouldn't say it absolutely has to be Impish though, as while that makes checking Ho-Oh relatively consistent, I feel like the ability to threaten it with a Return is almost more valuable, as after a certain point of recoil, they really don't want to risk losing Ho-Oh or else they lose their main way of beating this team. I do think adding 32 more Defense EVs can help, as it lets you survive -1 208 Adamant Brave Bird from LO Ho-Oh with rocks up. Keep in mind that a lucky LO Ho-Oh does beat you depending on timely Sacred Fire burns, but generally you can come out on top by forcing Roost from recoil against this variant.

Regarding the suggesting of Jirachi, I guess it's kind of cool but I don't think either are particularly great checks for Geomancy Xerneas and Genesect can punish a bit harder. One reason I might use it would be the nice Flying resist it gives you. While we are talking about Genesect, I think Explosion is indeed the better option for the last spot; it can emergency stop a number of threats, such as Ho-Oh and Arceus-Ground (Explosion does like 74-87%).

Lastly, if I recall correctly, running 4 Defense for Arceus-Dark does not do anything, because equal defensive stats give Genesect the SpA boost. So basically, you can just run 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid Nature and be fine.

So yeah just mostly analyzing stuff, a few minor changes but nice team, and I agree that Arceus-Dark is very good in this meta.

Good luck!

 

[mags]

I just started to use teams from the smogon forums and boy I think this is my favorite one. I've always been a fan of stall so thats what I have been using for awhile but i wanted a change. I thought genesect wasn't good until I used this team. The only thing i changed was refresh to will o wisp. I was reading some other comments and they suggested it so I tried it and liked it lol.

Awesome team =)

 

[Sebberball]

I love the team Edgar, yet I think you should replace return for frustration, and I'll say why... DITTO... Ditto can I poster transform into mega salamence and then sweep YOUR team with YOUR mega salamence, just mentioning it

 

[firehusky]

Then dittos will start running 0 happiness. It doesn't really matter.