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Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Fireburn
- Start date
I'm late but I'm somewhat confused about the Mega Rayquaza ban. It's because it can hold an item right? But isn't knock off spam like pretty heavy anyways? And after knock off it just becomes a worse Mega Salamence right?
Because a worse Mega Salamence also has base 180 attacking stat, 10 more base hp, 10 more base sp.d., a base 180 physical fire move, a base 140 fire attacking move, extremespeed, swords dance, and an ability that negates the super-effectiveness of moves that should be super effective against flying.
So I'm very interested in getting into users, but I'm primarily a stall player. I read about a lugia proudon msableye core. I'm just wondering if that corei s still viable post rayquaza ban.
Mega Salamence is a very powerful sweeper, but how viable is a support set? It has decent physical bulk, Intimidate pre MEvo, resistance/immunity to Fire, Water, Fighting and Ground (among other things), and access to moves like Wish, Defog, Roost, Refresh, Toxic and Dragon Tail.
Obviously it won't be as good as an attacking set, but I don't think it's entirely without a niche either.
Obviously it won't be as good as an attacking set, but I don't think it's entirely without a niche either.
Blaziken (M) @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
Lonely Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Power-Up Punch
- Swords Dance
- Blaze Kick
- Baton Pass
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Gentle Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
Garchomp (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Quirky Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Stone Edge
Talonflame (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance
Zapdos @ Cell Battery
Ability: Pressure
Mild Nature
- Thunder
- Drill Peck
- Heat Wave
- Thunderbolt
Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
- Leech Seed
- Rain Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
rate plz
Ability: Speed Boost
Lonely Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Power-Up Punch
- Swords Dance
- Blaze Kick
- Baton Pass
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Gentle Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
Garchomp (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Quirky Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Stone Edge
Talonflame (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance
Zapdos @ Cell Battery
Ability: Pressure
Mild Nature
- Thunder
- Drill Peck
- Heat Wave
- Thunderbolt
Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
- Leech Seed
- Rain Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
rate plz
Dilwar
Hi
This isn't the place to post teams. Post it in "ORAS Other Teams." Also put descriptions of your Pokemon, e.g why you chose them, what they do for the team etc
Also, why do you keep posting this team in every thread instead of creating your own thread for it, as is the norm?
Instead of posting this team in every thread you find I would suggest getting a mentor from the Smogon Mentorship program since these sets imply that you are new to competitive battling, and the fact that you posted this team in 3 different threads including someone's RMT thread shows that you also don't where to post things in Smogon. A mentor can help you with both.
Just wanted to say that Ditto is incredibily good at this moment in the tier. In fact, especially on the ladder, people tend to use a lot HO teams full of setup sweepers (Primal Groudon, Extreme Kiler Ceus and Xerneas to make some examples), and Ditto does a really good job against them, I must admit that countersweep these kind of teams is really nice as well. It's kinda useless against Stall teams tho, but they aren't too much common nowadays to be honest so that's fine I guess.
Ok this might not be the place to post it, but I've searched through the entire forum and didn't find anywhere else, so please don't jump down my throat if there's a better place for this.
Now that Pokemon the Movie 2015 has been officially announced, Hoopa has also been officially confirmed. We all know how Diancie turned out to be almost exactly like it was leaked to be. I think it's safe to assume that the official Hoopa should mostly, if not exactly, correspond to what we know so far. And if that's the case, its Unbound form with 680 BST will most likely find itself in Ubers. Just speculating how viable would it be and what impact would it have on the meta?
Now that Pokemon the Movie 2015 has been officially announced, Hoopa has also been officially confirmed. We all know how Diancie turned out to be almost exactly like it was leaked to be. I think it's safe to assume that the official Hoopa should mostly, if not exactly, correspond to what we know so far. And if that's the case, its Unbound form with 680 BST will most likely find itself in Ubers. Just speculating how viable would it be and what impact would it have on the meta?
I only glanced over hoopa's stats and move set, and it doesn't look good. 80 base speed is really disappointing, since it means that basically all of ubers meta outspeed it. Hoopa seems to compete with yveltal as a dark stallbreaker, however Yveltal have arguably better typing and better stats. Hoopa seems like that it is restricted to some specialized mixed stallbreaking set utilizing knock off, and I think that it's the strongest niche for Hoopa. I don't think that it will have any impact on the meta at all.
Yeah, Hoopa-Unbound is likely going to be a classic case of BST not being indicative of viability. It's awfully physically frail and relatively slow, meaning that basically any offensive team will easily be able to handle it. I suppose it could potentially have some saving grace as a weapon against Stall, but in this meta Stall is so rare that it will come at a high opportunity cost. If you desperately need a stallbreaker, superior ones exist.
It can use an item. You change it with a key item called the Prison Bottle.
its attacking stats are very high and has a decent sp def stat but its typing and speed are a nuisance to it - the dark/psychic typing does give it a small niche, and thats mainly beating mewtwo/mmy (mmx destroys it due to 120bp low kicks against it and its defense stat is AWFUL) and its coverage isnt -bad- but inaccurate. its tough to find switch ins because this thing resists literally nothing (psychic immune tho) but only has 2 weaknesses (bug and fairy) which makes fairies a real bitch for it.
i theorymonned a set for it to see what it can do and heres what i have so far:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 44 SpD / 212 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
Alright so Hoopa-U doesnt have any resistances so trying a bulky set seems worthless (max hp with calm mind and taunt /could/ work but i havent put any thought into it yet). Speed EVs outspeed up to standard RP Primal Groudon (also beats things like most Ho-Oh, fast Giratina-O, 44 speed GeoXern and anything slower) the rest (44) in SpD to only have a 16% chance to be 2HKOd by neutral Judgments after SR and more than likely 2HKO or OHKO back depending on the type of Arceus it is.
Max SpA for obvious reasons, its power is insane with modest and a life orb and its got the coverage to destroy just about anything that wants to sit in front of it, this thing can 2HKO the entire metagame with this moveset or OHKO it at +2 barring stuff like Physically defensive Ho-Oh and Xerneas (but even these two lose to +2 Hoopa with some prior damage and are outsped)
so yeah this thing is extremely powerful (and is a mewtwo check), dont underestimate it.
i theorymonned a set for it to see what it can do and heres what i have so far:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 44 SpD / 212 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
Alright so Hoopa-U doesnt have any resistances so trying a bulky set seems worthless (max hp with calm mind and taunt /could/ work but i havent put any thought into it yet). Speed EVs outspeed up to standard RP Primal Groudon (also beats things like most Ho-Oh, fast Giratina-O, 44 speed GeoXern and anything slower) the rest (44) in SpD to only have a 16% chance to be 2HKOd by neutral Judgments after SR and more than likely 2HKO or OHKO back depending on the type of Arceus it is.
Max SpA for obvious reasons, its power is insane with modest and a life orb and its got the coverage to destroy just about anything that wants to sit in front of it, this thing can 2HKO the entire metagame with this moveset or OHKO it at +2 barring stuff like Physically defensive Ho-Oh and Xerneas (but even these two lose to +2 Hoopa with some prior damage and are outsped)
so yeah this thing is extremely powerful (and is a mewtwo check), dont underestimate it.
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Speed
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch / Ice Punch
- Trick Room
Hoopa-Unbound hits 148 Speed with no investment, Brave, and a 0 IV, which is enough for it to outslow most things. This is a decent cleaner thanks to being one of the few Pokemon with really strong physical Dark STAB. Hyperspace Fury is a solid move - great power, no immunities, busts through Protect to prevent easy stalling of TR turns, and can't miss. Gets OHKOes on stuff like Palkia and 4 HP Primal Kyogre after SR, and 2HKOes 252 HP Arceus pretty easily. Gunk Shot wrecks Fairies except for Klefki, who is already facing a potential 2HKO from Hyperspace Fury so that's not exactly the best check. Drain Punch lets you 2HKO Arceus-Dark + have a bit of recovery, while Ice Punch destroys Mega Salamence and is your best option against Yveltal. Has trouble with PDef Yveltal (hard counter), strong priority users, and healthy Primal Groudon, so kill/weaken those first. Best used as a late-game cleaner/Fairy lure.
A Choice Band set with some Speed investment may also be viable, Hyperspace Fury is really strong and quite spammable. You can also make a little use of Trick to cripple PDef YVeltal switch-ins (the best answer to Hoopa-Unbound overall).
Hoopa-Unbound overall has some potential but probably won't be a enormous influence on the metagame. Its offenses are huge and its got a solid offensive movepool to work with + Nasty Plot to wreck stall + Trick Room to screw with offense. Its defensive typing and Speed are mainly what let it down. Base 80 is pretty awkward as its technically not slow per se, but also not fast enough to outspeed the crowded base 90 tier, so Hoopa-Unbound has to detract from its already limited bulk just to ensure it'll outspeed some walls. It also has no priority to help make up for it, which is a shame because Sucker Punch would be great on this thing. The typing, while fine offensively, gives Joopa-Unbound zero resistances aside from a Psychic immunity which blows, and its poor physical bulk leaves it prone to priority attackers (though its special bulk is solid). In short, it has very limited switch-in opportunities with which to make use of its considerable power, making it difficult to fit on teams. That being said, it is an excellent stallbreaker against teams without PDef Yveltal, which gives it a good niche imo.
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Speed
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch / Ice Punch
- Trick Room
Hoopa-Unbound hits 148 Speed with no investment, Brave, and a 0 IV, which is enough for it to outslow most things. This is a decent cleaner thanks to being one of the few Pokemon with really strong physical Dark STAB. Hyperspace Fury is a solid move - great power, no immunities, busts through Protect to prevent easy stalling of TR turns, and can't miss. Gets OHKOes on stuff like Palkia and 4 HP Primal Kyogre after SR, and 2HKOes 252 HP Arceus pretty easily. Gunk Shot wrecks Fairies except for Klefki, who is already facing a potential 2HKO from Hyperspace Fury so that's not exactly the best check. Drain Punch lets you 2HKO Arceus-Dark + have a bit of recovery, while Ice Punch destroys Mega Salamence and is your best option against Yveltal. Has trouble with PDef Yveltal (hard counter), strong priority users, and healthy Primal Groudon, so kill/weaken those first. Best used as a late-game cleaner/Fairy lure.
A Choice Band set with some Speed investment may also be viable, Hyperspace Fury is really strong and quite spammable. You can also make a little use of Trick to cripple PDef YVeltal switch-ins (the best answer to Hoopa-Unbound overall).
Hoopa-Unbound overall has some potential but probably won't be a enormous influence on the metagame. Its offenses are huge and its got a solid offensive movepool to work with + Nasty Plot to wreck stall + Trick Room to screw with offense. Its defensive typing and Speed are mainly what let it down. Base 80 is pretty awkward as its technically not slow per se, but also not fast enough to outspeed the crowded base 90 tier, so Hoopa-Unbound has to detract from its already limited bulk just to ensure it'll outspeed some walls. It also has no priority to help make up for it, which is a shame because Sucker Punch would be great on this thing. The typing, while fine offensively, gives Joopa-Unbound zero resistances aside from a Psychic immunity which blows, and its poor physical bulk leaves it prone to priority attackers (though its special bulk is solid). In short, it has very limited switch-in opportunities with which to make use of its considerable power, making it difficult to fit on teams. That being said, it is an excellent stallbreaker against teams without PDef Yveltal, which gives it a good niche imo.
Hyperspace Fury could be used over Dark Pulse since it is more powerful, has a nasty defense dropping side effect to abuse with Psyshock potentially, and it isn't fast enough to abuse Dark Pulse flinches alot of the time. The PP is significantly worse though, so running Dark Pulse is still an option. It also ignores Protect which is nice.
Hyperspace Fury is a physical attack (Smogon Dex is wrong lol)
The Defense drop from Hyperspace Fury affects the user and not the target. Not really a big deal since Hoopa-U's defense is already god-awful.
Heh...this might seem face palm worthy, but I just noticed that in addition to having a base stat total higher than arceus, primal groudon essentially gets adaptability for one of his STABS (fire), and gets an immunity to his only 4x weakness in his ability. In my opinion, that's a better ability than delta stream...
Comments? This is literally my first ever thought having anything to do with ubers XD.
Comments? This is literally my first ever thought having anything to do with ubers XD.
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
Hoopa-U will be a good M2 check and nuke all in one. 160 / 170 offenses with possibly a boosting item is just wonderful, as is its Special Defense (I don't know it atm). However, outside of checking mewtwo, an uncommon pokemon, I don't see much use for Hoopa-U sadly.
What are some good defensive cores? I'm trying to build a stall team but don't know much about the tier
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ubers-spl-replays-discussion-thread.3526174/
Check out donkey and Hack's teams for some cool ideas, they are probably the most solid stall teams that have been made / revealed edit: recently obviously
For a starting point I would go with Lugia+Magic Bounce, but you do still want Defog, something for Dark Arceus (Clef and I think Snatch Blissey), standard stall stuff like cleric support, etc. Ofc some kind of hazard goes without saying. Obviously some things need to be compressed to fit 6 mons (in donkey's team Unaware Clef also deals with any kind of GeoXern for example). Luckily Lugia more or less stops all physical attackers.
But anyway I don't really play stall so perhaps someone more familiar will give you a better answer
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