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I could instead refer to the A Ranking description.
A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.
While Pangoro utterly dominates slower teams, it does falter against more offensive teams since it obviously cannot sweep them. Panda is still (arguably) the best at its job, but not having as much use against offense keeps it from S.
I could instead refer to the A Ranking description.
A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.
While Pangoro utterly dominates slower teams, it does falter against more offensive teams since it obviously cannot sweep them. Panda is still (arguably) the best at its job, but not having as much use against offense keeps it from S.
I dont think Pangoro is broken, but what flaws excactly does it have that prevents it from doing it job. Its job is obviously wallbreaking. If were to use Pangoro (havent tried it yet) I would do so because I wanted to fuck up stall. I cant see what flaws it has that prevents it from doing this. If it doesnt work against offence as good that doesnt keep it from doing "its job". Im just quoting the A-rank description.
It fits much better to the S-rank description, because it can in fact succesfully pull of several different sets to great success.
I dont think Pangoro is broken, but what flaws excactly does it have that prevents it from doing it job. Its job is obviously wallbreaking. If were to use Pangoro (havent tried it yet) I would do so because I wanted to fuck up stall. I cant see what flaws it has that prevents it from doing this. If it doesnt work against offence as good that doesnt keep it from doing "its job". Im just quoting the A-rank description.
It fits much better to the S-rank description, because it can in fact succesfully pull of several different sets to great success.
If one was using a defensive team, Pangoro would be one of, if not the biggest threat to watch out for. However, if using an offensive team, Pangoro is not such a big deal in comparison. S Rank Pokemon tend to be Pokemon that threaten a majority of team archetypes (such as Mega Glalie and, in the XY era, Typhlosion, Feraligatr, Mesprit, Uxie, Kangaskhan) and are universally dangerous.
Supporting a rise of Malamar to B+ for the reason above and more importantly Malamar loves the fact that slurpuff left the tier, as it was a massive hindrance to it setting up. While Fairy-types resist Superpower and Knock Off, if it gets a boost or two it can actually outlast and defeat Granbull lacking roar.
Jumpluff to C-.
This frankly is something I will be fighting for only due to the extent at which I have tested it in the past month. It is a terrible pokemon on its own (which is why it should be placed low), but at the same time is one of the few pokemon that offers true utility to HO teams, allowing physical sweepers to shine. Alone, Feraligatr, Klinklang, Glalie, or Pangoro are unlikely to sweep singlehandedly. However, the moment Jumpluff is added, things change. With access to SD and a fast Sleep move, it can bait out and remove common checks to physical pokemon such as Weezing or Rhydon, and with a powerful STAB Combo and a SD under its belt, it is incredibly fast and stronger than Archeops, very simply and easily cleaning most pokemon and opening gaping holes in the opponent, while having a unique typing that offers key resistances that HO teams often lack and synergizing offensively with most physical sweepers.
With ORAS came a lot of changes and as the dust is settling and the meta is adjusting, Malamar is shaping up to be one of the most reliable sweepers in the tier. With the absence of any reliable fairy checks in the tier and a new toy in Knock Off, it has a lot of great stuff going for it. Its best set (resttalk spdef) sets up on the majority of the tier and cannot be broken down without the proper team matchup and careful planning.
0 SpA Audino Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 126-150 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (trades 1 for 1 the majority of the time against crodino, assuming you snagged a boost before hand)
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 168-200 (44.6 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 165-196 (43.8 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (worst case scenario)
28 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 93-111 (24.7 - 29.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 138-163 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 142-168 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
...and the list goes on. I would argue that Malamar's effectiveness can be measured by how easy it is to grab that +1 defense boost which is, often times, really all it needs to get a sweep rolling. The two premiere Fairy types in the tier have problems dealing with it and our lack of viable bug types outside of Scyther certainly makes for a happy Malamar. Definitely a mon I've been enjoying great success with lately
With ORAS came a lot of changes and as the dust is settling and the meta is adjusting, Malamar is shaping up to be one of the most reliable sweepers in the tier. With the absence of any reliable fairy checks in the tier and a new toy in Knock Off, it has a lot of great stuff going for it. Its best set (resttalk spdef) sets up on the majority of the tier and cannot be broken down without the proper team matchup and careful planning.
0 SpA Audino Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 126-150 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (trades 1 for 1 the majority of the time against crodino, assuming you snagged a boost before hand)
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 168-200 (44.6 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 165-196 (43.8 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (worst case scenario)
28 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 93-111 (24.7 - 29.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 138-163 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 142-168 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
...and the list goes on. I would argue that Malamar's effectiveness can be measured by how easy it is to grab that +1 defense boost which is, often times, really all it needs to get a sweep rolling. The two premiere Fairy types in the tier have problems dealing with it and our lack of viable bug types outside of Scyther certainly makes for a happy Malamar. Definitely a mon I've been enjoying great success with lately
Dang man, you beat me to it ;) Anyway +1 from me. People are too caught up with Panda that people don't even consider Malamar as a threat. However once it comes in on one of your walls or pivot and starts boosting, you quickly start losing mons. Aside from their differences in initial power, one major difference is that Malamar can't be easily revenge killed. You might be thinking "oh you can easily revenge kill it on its weaker sp.def lol (BAN ME PLEASE)" but strong hits like LO fire blast from Pyroar does around 50% and in the process you proceed to kill it with Superpower and grab that +1. Unless you have a strong bug or fairy, or encore it on sleep talk chances are you gonna get swept. I propose to elevate it A- or higher.
I feel like Leavanny should get bumped up to B- at the least. It's the best sticky webber in the tier, gets knock off with sticky web now, and can effectively KO Rhydon with Leaf Storm. It's fast enough to get the sticky web up and get another attack off. It's more bulky and powerful than any of the other sticky webbers, even with the two awful 4x weaknesses. If it needs too, it can still take an offensive side, without setting up Sticky Web(still the same set though). Knock off deals with a lot of other pokemon while Leaf Storm hits physically defensive pokemon and X-Scissor is for STAB. With Focus Sash, it allows it almost a guarantee to set up Sticky Web or Knock off on something. Knock off lets your team deal with Scarf/Specs Typhlosion way easier, and you can switch out of Leavanny into something else and get SW up later if needed. I'm not sure exactly if my points are biased or not, but I feel like it needs more credit than it gets.
P.S. It also works as a decent revenge killer with a scarf or a counter to chlorophyll imo.
I feel like Leavanny should get bumped up to B- at the least. It's the best sticky webber in the tier, gets knock off with sticky web now, and can effectively KO Rhydon with Leaf Storm. It's fast enough to get the sticky web up and get another attack off. It's more bulky and powerful than any of the other sticky webbers, even with the two awful 4x weaknesses. If it needs too, it can still take an offensive side, without setting up Sticky Web(still the same set though). Knock off deals with a lot of other pokemon while Leaf Storm hits physically defensive pokemon and X-Scissor is for STAB. With Focus Sash, it allows it almost a guarantee to set up Sticky Web or Knock off on something. Knock off lets your team deal with Scarf/Specs Typhlosion way easier, and you can switch out of Leavanny into something else and get SW up later if needed. I'm not sure exactly if my points are biased or not, but I feel like it needs more credit than it gets.
P.S. It also works as a decent revenge killer with a scarf or a counter to chlorophyll imo.
B-->A-/A I know this has already been said but seriously if you have played the metagame as of recent you know this thing is a monster. When I originally saw that it got knock off I thought sure...but why would you use it over Pangoro. While Pangoro wallbreaks like you wouldn't believe and hits extremely hard, Malamar finds its place as how easy it gets the superpower boost in this metagame. A lot of the time you are put in a situation where you are either giving it a free Bulk Up or allowing it to knock off an item of a pokemon as the dual Dark/Fight type combo hits practically everything for big damage. And I think one of the biggest overlooked features of what also makes Malamar so great is how well it deals with sticky web grabbing it a free +1 speed everytime it enters battle making sticky web teams hesitant to even set it up before knocking out Malamar first.
C+-->B- While it may seem outclassed by its sister Gorebyss in A- Huntail is still a large threat. Now that it receives sucker punch it has gotten much needed priority and Coil/Shell Smash plus Sucker punch hits hard. Its 20 extra attack points allow it to abuse Coil boosted attacks better than Gorebyss. Huntail is one of the two best baton passing pokemon in the tier and with water veil it sets up on most pokemon with scald.
I would also like to see jumpluff at least listed. The no item acrobatics set has a niche for a tier where there is a lot of knock off spam and its dual STAB typing hits most things for super effective damage.
Mismagius to A+ or S. His superior speed and nice special attack make him an incredible sweeper and wall breaker. I've been using a set of Substitute/Nasty Plot/Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam @ life orb that has been sweeping teams effortlessly. The nasty plot is pretty easy to get up because of levitate and his ghost typing. The whole tier is then pretty much OHKO'd or 2HKO'd after a single nasty plot. He can also play around sucker punch with substitute, making him difficult to revenge kill.
To quote the initial post: S-Rank is being left open for now because the meta is still young and changing and nothing is a clear cut fit for this rank right now.
Mismagius is definitely a large threat especially if it allowed to set up a nasty plot but I don't see how you can argue it on the same level or even above mons like Typlosion or Mega-Glalie who do serious damage without any set up at all and usually have no problems at least getting one kill before they are ko'd.
Yes contrary isn't released yet ... Who cares? That will have time for discussion and serp's own private S++ rank later, but this thing is still pretty deadly even without contrary.
After testing it a bit, the Sub Calm Mind set is incredible and is hard to stop without some heavy offense like fire spam and glalie because of how bulky it is with 75/95/95 defenses. It's also really fast, one of the fastest pokemon in the tier which makes it easier to get up subs and begin to sweep when their counters are down. I would push it higher, but it needs a bit of support to sweep with and loses to typhlosion and glalie which are stupidly strong in this meta. It serves as an excellent cleaner and general set up sweeper and is probably among the top 3 calm mind users in the tier, except it has niches over the others with much better speed while still maintaining bulk and it has reliable recovery with a solid typing. It also sets up on and beats a lot of common bulky mons and walls. It may be hard to grasp why Uxie isn't used over it at first, but serp has the niche of recovery, isn't weak to knock off and has higher speed.
Looking at it, this is probably irrelevant since when contrary comes out Serperior will beat the metas knee caps with a baseball bat, but I wanted to remind people it is still quite threatening
Cacturne shouldn't be really looked at as a spiker, its kinda like looking at torkoal like a shell smash sweeper.
A- is probably a bit high but it does have amazing attack and special attack, access to swords dance and nasty plot and priority as well. The set I've had the most success with is nasty plot 3 attacks with sucker punch.
Granted it is frail af and doesn't have great speed, it still is probably one of the best mixed attackers in the tier (bar the megas obv) and water absorb is a pretty good ability. I'd say B+ would be fair enough.
Fling > Knock Off tbh Cacturne doesn't use NP well. I prefer LO Giga Drain / Dark Pulse / Destiny Bond / Sucker Punch | Spikes on Cacturne or Swords Dance sets. Sash Spikes + Encore is cool too.
Spikes is actually one of the reasons Cacturne is placed this high; it can threaten hazard leads such as Seismitoad and Uxie as well as deter the spinners (and Xatu) from coming in with the threat of its powerful dual STABs.
Bobby REKT Its high mixed offenses means it can very easily make use of its best STAB attacks, Giga Drain, Sucker Punch, and Dark Pulse, with great efficiency, even if its Attack stat isn't greatly invested. Destiny Bond and Sucker Punch mindgames can fuck with people too.
Cacturne can either threaten the opponent with boosting moves or Spikes + Sash shenanigans, and with Cacturne's power and ability to attack immediately very efficiently (which is more than can be said for most hazard leads) it can be very tricky for the opponent to limit the damage while telling which is which.
Well guys, I have not that much of knowledge of NU , but with my little ladder experience I think Gourgeist-S should be ranked up, with Synthesis it carries reliable recovery and is the best Spinblocker in this tier( It can tank knock off or the likes of Sandslash, and I dont see other common spinner being so problematic as Cryogonal is not that common since the raise of mega glalie, so it this moment I "randomly" feel that some more experienced player take a note about Gourgeist-Super with how the NU metagame adapt to it, please someone tell me if I said something wrong lol
No where in my post did I say Cacturne should be dropped. I asked why it was A- rank, which a lot of people would also like to know. There's a huge difference between arguing that a mon should be dropped, and asking why it's as high as it is.
Too early to tell where it will be around viability. What is for sure is that it will shoot up in viability with the release of contrary. Whether it leaves because of it is to been seen...
Also supporting Accelgor to B/B+. I dont get why its so low either, its as reliable at spikes stacking as it was on XY. Maybe the biggest problem is exactly that ORAS didnt bring him any new gifts but at hazard stacking in HO it does his job as good as before so i dont really understand the drop. Its not like crustle outclasses him entirely since accel has final gambit to prevent defog/rs, encore to lock slower mons on unwanted moves forcing switches, you can even run uturn if you want momentum and are insane enough to run an offensive accelgor.
I as well support Accelgor to rise, it is one of the best suicide spike setters in the tier with final gambit.
Also I honestly think that Pawniard needs to drop from where it is currently at. Pangoro and Malamar's massive increase in usage have hurt it severely. Both threaten to ohko it and now that both of those mons finally got the much needed move in knock off Pawniard's niche as a strong knock off abuser has somewhat diminished. Besides sucker punch, Pawniard just feels like a poor mans Pangoro. Pawniard struggles to fit in with a meta that has a lot of strong common fighting type abusers Hariyama, Sawk, Gurdurr, Malamar, and Pangoro. The all so common Mega Steelix walls Pawniard to hell and back and Mega Steelix is usually the preferred Steel type attacker over Pawniard as it is. Really the big niches Pawniard has it for as of this meta is its unique typing, defiant, and its ability to use sucker punch particularly with swords dance. It is just a matter of whether or not you believe that warrants it for B rank.
