Project Victim of the Week

[firehusky]

Not calling anyone out, but recently there have been a few people that are criticizing other people's sets, without even bothering to look at the OP and actually see what set mega metagross is running. Mega Metagross has lots of coverage options, you can't expect a certain mon to be able to beat a mega metagross running grass knot / meteor mash / agility / earthquake / zen headbutt / hammer arm.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Not calling anyone out, but recently there have been a few people that are criticizing other people's sets, without even bothering to look at the OP and actually see what set mega metagross is running. Mega Metagross has lots of coverage options, you can't expect a certain mon to be able to beat a mega metagross running grass knot / meteor mash / agility / earthquake / zen headbutt / hammer arm.

This thing can \/
Counter

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Toxic

Standard special defensive set, walls all none supereffective special attacks.
First two moves standard. Next to beat CM keldeo. Toxic for switchins.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 127-150 (32.3 - 38.1%)
0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.7%)

Heal off damage and scald away.

Now you might be wondering why slowking over slowbro? First it beats grass knot metagross.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 100-118 (25.4 - 30%)

Also, main reason is it can counter most of the physical stuff slowbro can while being much better on the special side:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 153-183 (38.9 - 46.5%)

Check

Victory! (Victini) @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Bolt Strike
- V-create
- Substitute

Standard sub pup set. Come in set up sub. Use appropriate move afterwards.

Only check because SR and damage wears it down.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Victini: 106-126 (29 - 34.5%)

Its breaks sub, but Metagross almost always switches unless it has EQ.

 

[one hitta quitta]

This thing can \/
Counter

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Toxic

Standard special defensive set, walls all none supereffective special attacks.
First two moves standard. Next to beat CM keldeo. Toxic for switchins.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 127-150 (32.3 - 38.1%)
0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.7%)

Heal off damage and scald away.

Now you might be wondering why slowking over slowbro? First it beats grass knot metagross.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 100-118 (25.4 - 30%)

Also, main reason is it can counter most of the physical stuff slowbro can while being much better on the special side:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 153-183 (38.9 - 46.5%)

Check

Victory! (Victini) @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Bolt Strike
- V-create
- Substitute

Standard sub pup set. Come in set up sub. Use appropriate move afterwards.

Only check because SR and damage wears it down.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Victini: 106-126 (29 - 34.5%)

Its breaks sub, but Metagross almost always switches unless it has EQ.

Victini's been done already, and I don't know if that set is very viable anyway

 

[zbr]

Victini's been done already, and I don't know if that set is very viable anyway

Same mon with different but viable sets are fine. And yes, SubPuP has been proven to be a viable set that has seen usage in high ladders and even tours.

 

[one hitta quitta]

Same mon with different but viable sets are fine. And yes, SubPuP has been proven to be a viable set that has seen usage in high ladders and even tours.

OK, nice to know!

 

[Teeny Victory]

Reserving Mega Swampert as a Check

Totally did not forget about this

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance / Super Power / Low Kick
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

M-Swampert is a decent check to M-Metagross, and checks it even better if under rain. You can come in on any attack except for Ice Punch (if rocks are in play) or Zen headbutt as Swampy survives Meteor Mash + Zen Headbutt if mega-d on switch-in. The ev spread is to outspeed -1 M-Meta (from hammer arm drop) outside of rain. In rain, you come in on any attack and stand a solid chance of OHKOing back, especially if rocks are up. So M-Swampy is a great M-Meta check, and near counters it if rain is in play.

Calcs

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 98-116 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 145-171 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 174-205 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 109-129 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Tele]

So yea ive always been interested in reading this thread cos its actually a good source of ideas when teambuilding.
and here we go, i just wanted to let u know that i hardly consider Slowbro (mega or not, makes no big difference), Hippodown, and some others as a Mega Metagross counter: thats becos i think that ppl will soon start realizing that the mixed set with Grass Knot is incredibly better than the one with Hammer Arm. i mean lets talk honestly, what do u want to hit with that move apart Ferrothorn? it fails to shot it, takes iron barbs damage and drops the speed. oh and needs prediction as well
I know that u guys are looking for a counter to a specific Mega Metagross set, but id like to point out that if ever i had to find a counter to mega gross, that wouldnt be slowbro (which is the first one mentioned here), becos im pretty sure that the grass knot set will soon gain popularity. to those who are skeptikal:

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 240-284 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 272-320 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

intend this post just as nothing but a personal thought. some ppl might get mislead by seeing slowbro recognized as a good mega gross counter, that is what pushed me to share this

 

[Aragorn the King]

So yea ive always been interested in reading this thread cos its actually a good source of ideas when teambuilding.
and here we go, i just wanted to let u know that i hardly consider Slowbro (mega or not, makes no big difference), Hippodown, and some others as a Mega Metagross counter: thats becos i think that ppl will soon start realizing that the mixed set with Grass Knot is incredibly better than the one with Hammer Arm. i mean lets talk honestly, what do u want to hit with that move apart Ferrothorn? it fails to shot it, takes iron barbs damage and drops the speed. oh and needs prediction as well
I know that u guys are looking for a counter to a specific Mega Metagross set, but id like to point out that if ever i had to find a counter to mega gross, that wouldnt be slowbro (which is the first one mentioned here), becos im pretty sure that the grass knot set will soon gain popularity. to those who are skeptikal:

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 240-284 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 272-320 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

intend this post just as nothing but a personal thought. some ppl might get mislead by seeing slowbro recognized as a good mega gross counter, that is what pushed me to share this

Thanks for your input! I've definitely been convinced that Grass Knot is pretty cool, mainly for mega bro. However, just to point this out: ferrothorn isn't the only target of Hammer Arm. It also hits Heatran and Skarmory.

So, all of this discussion on what Megagross does and doesn't carry kind of speaks to an issue I have with OU Victim of the Week. A specific set is always chosen, and we can see that set, so we can hyper-specialize to counter it. It leads to really specific counters, like Pyroar in the last one... but no one in their right mind would add Pyroar to their team as a Sableye counter because there's like a 40% or 50% chance that Sableye will be using Dark Pulse instead of Shadow Ball, and will shit all over Pyroar.

Same thing here... we are all free to use, say, bulky Waters to counter Megagross because we know it doesn't carry GK - but GK is common enough that in an actual game, you have to scout out a bit before letting your bulky Water stay in against Gross.

In the UU version of VotW, they allow for the slashing of moves, so in this instance it might be Hammer Arm/Grass Knot or whatever. I know it makes threats harder to counter, but it's a little bit more realistic IMO, because these are the things that actually have to be taken into account when teambuilding. Obviously I wouldn't go crazy with slashing other move options - it should still basically be the same set - but would it be realistic to have multiple move options sometimes?

Based on the amount of likes it seems like most people agree. One thing I will say is that if I get two 100% viable counters to the set and I can only choose one, and one just so happens to die to an alternate moveset, I'll choose the other. Grass Knot and Earthquake aren't currently on the set, but I will consider them when choosing the best 6 entries.

Now that I think about it, it seems like it would have been better just to slash things from day one, since my mentality has always included slashing things.

One specific problem with this mentality, however, is Greninja. The choice between Dark Pulse, Grass Knot, and Extrasensory really limits how effective your check or counter is. To combat this a bit, I'll say that counters don't have to be able to switch in on every single move in one slot. For example, if I slash Dragon Claw before Outrage on Mega Charizard-X, Quagsire is still able to be nominated as a counter, despite losing to Outrage. It however is a shakier counter, in this instance.

Anyway, thanks for the Mega Metagross checks and counters, this week we'll do Greninja!

Week 36

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
- Dark Pulse / Extrasensory

I kinda wanted to nominate an ORAS Mega to show off the awesome new 3D models, but I thought Greninja was more important. Remember - a counter doesn't have to be able to take an Extrasensory and a Dark Pulse, it just has to be able to take one of them (preferably Dark Pulse, since it's used more often). It also doesn't have to be able to take non-slashed moves (HP Grass, HP Fire, Grass Knot, Hydro Pump, etc).

Have fun!

 

[boltsandbombers]

Porygon2 as a Counter

2BALKY4U (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic / Thunder Wave

Porygon2 utilizes its massive natural Special Defense coupled with an Eviolite to easy take Greninja's hits and recover off the damage. Even without any defense investment, P2 is not 2HKOed by either Gunk Shot or Low Kick, so I just stuck with a simple specially defensive spread, but of course that can be altered to fit your teams needs. Recover is mandatory, thunderbolt and ice beam for coverage, and the status move of your choice in the last slot.

Calcs:

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 125-148 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 122-146 (32.6 - 39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 82-97 (21.9 - 25.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 74-87 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- 18% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[p2]

reserving Porygon2

looks like I'm not then

I'll reserve Scizor then


Check

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Fairly standard CB Scizor
Can easily take a Dark Pulse and KO Greninja with U-Turn or Superpower

Defensive:
40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 142-168 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Greninja Gunk Shot vs. Scizor: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 94-112 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 168-199 (48.9 - 58%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 83-99 (24.1 - 28.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO

Offensive:
Since Bullet Punch is neutral or SE to all types this Greninja can be, it's a safe 2HKO, with a very small chance of a OHKO after LO Recoil

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 225-265 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Kurona]

Gimmie that Empoleon
Hnnnng low kick rip me
I'll take Mega Venu then

216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 242-289 (66.4 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Psychic-Type Greninja: 127-151 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO

Are you sure?

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

You guys know that since Dark Pulse is slashed with Extrasensory, counters are allowed to be able to come in on Dark Pulse and not Extrasensory, right? (Aragorn did type that in bold font)

 

[zbr]

Reserving Chansey

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled <- Mandatory healing
- Heal Bell <- Additional Support to the team
- Toxic <- This is up to you. You can run rocks here if you need a rocker or if you like to LO stall.
- Seismic Toss

Chansey is one of those mons that no one wished it existed. Sadly, it does and with the options that Greninja has this gen, I have to resort to using this as a counter. It has the ability to take on all the sets of Greninja as well as having some attacking sense behind it. Since Gunk Shot and Low Kick are always 3HKOS, you can live all of them comfortably and Life Orb stall his LO out. Honestly though, passive options as counters to an offensive mon sucks :X

Edit: Thanks Knight of Cydonia for the updated spread

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Reserving Gyarados

 

[ArchPhantom]

Counter:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
-Calm Mind
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Scald

Good ol' CroCune is a great stop to Greninja thanks to its incredible bulk + reliable recovery in Rest. Cune avoids the 2HKO from all of Gren's moves even after rocks and it can then use Gren as set-up fodder. Get countered, non-Grass Knot Gren.

Calcs

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 125-148 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 62.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 91-109 (22.5 - 26.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 125-148 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 62.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[firehusky]

SmogonBird

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Roost

Talonflame's set is pretty standard. Choice Band Talonflame works as a check to greninja because it can switch in on low kick and proceed to OHKO with brave bird.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 325-384 (113.6 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[branflakes]

Counter

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Mega Sableye makes an amazing special wall that reliably counters Greninja regardless of its set. After mega evolving, Sableye can switch into an Ice Beam, and 2-3HKO with Knock Off while taking advantage of Greninja's reduced damage to stay healthy. There is no Greninja set that can comfortably take on SpDef Mega Sableye. You can also burn + recover stall if you need Sableye at 100% when Greninja goes down.

216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 103-122 (33.8 - 40.1%)
216 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 79-94 (25.9 - 30.9%)

because this is still relevant

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

 

[Teeny Victory]

reserving scarf keldeo as a check (takes dark pulse but not extrasensory)

 

[Celticpride]

So... is Mega Venusaur taken? I'll take that if Recreant doesn't want it. If not I'll take Tentacruel.
I'll just reserve Tentacruel straight up.

 

[VKW]

Counter

Spiritomb @ Leftovers

EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Pain Split
- Protect
- Sucker Punch
- Will-o-Wisp

The most damaging Greninja can use on the set posted is ice beam.

216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 109-129 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- 87.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

But even Hydro Pump is at best a 3HKO

216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This means that Spiritomb can switch into any of Greninja's moves, and alternate between protect, Pain Split, and possibly Will-o-Wisp if you come in healthy or switch in on low kick.

Once Greninja's been worn down enough finish it off with a Sucker Punch.

0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 111-132 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If using Dark Pulse it's not as easy to finish off due to being a dark type, but it also means that Greninja is dealing less damage making it easier to stall with protect/leftovers as Greninja uses its life orb.

0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 55-66 (19.2 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO

 

[Albacore]

Hard check

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Moonlight

216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not the best answer to it, since it loses if it gets flinched and only having 8 PP on your recovery sucks, but it handles Greninja well nonetheless. Life Orb Recoil means Cresselia can just spam recovery and it can get off a Toxic Greninja is going down very fast. Also Moonblast does 50% if Greninja previously used Dark Pulse so there's that too.

 

[silver97]

Reserving conkeldurr

 

[Turducken64]

Reserving umbreon

 

[Invok3r]

Reserving gastrodon.

 

[looiiyut]

reserving CM Manaphy

Manaphy - Check

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Rain Dance
- Scald

If manaphy come in low kick or ice beam greninja can't do nothing. Set up rain go for calm mind or scald.
The spread provides enough Speed to outspeed neutral base 70s, namely Bisharp. The rest of the EVs maximize Manaphy's HP and Defense, as Calm Mind will be boosting its Special Defense. Burns from Scald may also increase its physical bulk.