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- Thread starter Hack_Guy
- Start date
The Immortal as the people prior to me have pointed out, an addition of the priorities can cause potentially broken links to pop up everywhere. So I feel that it is best to leave it as the moves in the link gain the lowest priority
Some interesting / dangerous things I've noticed so far:
Holy hell, Cloyster is dangerous in this meta... well, any Shell Smasher is really, but Cloyster in particular looks terrifying!
Sub-Seed Toxic Heal Breloom looks annoying as shit to deal with.
Ferrothorn and Forretress can lay down both Rocks and a layer of Spikes in one turn, or an entry hazard and Leech seed at the same time in Ferrothorn's case. Or if you prefer, Forretress could do Rapid Spin and Volt Switch on the same turn, to both clear hazards and bring in a safe switch-in in one turn.
Prankster Sableye might just be the most annoying Pokemon ever here. Using both Will-o-Wisp and Recover on the same turn is just infuriating, and with Taunt and Knock Off / Foul Play waiting in the wings, that thing will be incredibly difficult to take out. Prankster Klefki and Meowstic can set up both screens at +1 priority in one move, which is just ridiculous, so you better have a Defogger (or Brick Breaker) on your team.
I can see a bulky lefties Dragon Dance + Roost Multiscale Dragonite set being extremely good in this metagame. Just have Dragon Claw + Fire Punch / Earthquake in the third and fourth slots for its attacking moves, while the linked boosting and healing make it easy to attain multiple boosts until you can sweep. Dangerous stuff.
Finally, I think a Roar + Slack Off Hippowdon will be an excellent annoyer / tank with entry hazard support.
Holy hell, Cloyster is dangerous in this meta... well, any Shell Smasher is really, but Cloyster in particular looks terrifying!
Sub-Seed Toxic Heal Breloom looks annoying as shit to deal with.
Ferrothorn and Forretress can lay down both Rocks and a layer of Spikes in one turn, or an entry hazard and Leech seed at the same time in Ferrothorn's case. Or if you prefer, Forretress could do Rapid Spin and Volt Switch on the same turn, to both clear hazards and bring in a safe switch-in in one turn.
Prankster Sableye might just be the most annoying Pokemon ever here. Using both Will-o-Wisp and Recover on the same turn is just infuriating, and with Taunt and Knock Off / Foul Play waiting in the wings, that thing will be incredibly difficult to take out. Prankster Klefki and Meowstic can set up both screens at +1 priority in one move, which is just ridiculous, so you better have a Defogger (or Brick Breaker) on your team.
I can see a bulky lefties Dragon Dance + Roost Multiscale Dragonite set being extremely good in this metagame. Just have Dragon Claw + Fire Punch / Earthquake in the third and fourth slots for its attacking moves, while the linked boosting and healing make it easy to attain multiple boosts until you can sweep. Dangerous stuff.
Finally, I think a Roar + Slack Off Hippowdon will be an excellent annoyer / tank with entry hazard support.
woah, physical venusuar could get +4attack in one turn with Growth/Swords Dance
This meta is so huge!
It improves everything: offense, balance and stall simultaneously!
Less predictions for offense: just link coverage moves together and make an explosive suicidal nuke like BB+CC Staraptor!
Although Belly Drum Chesnaught isn't that great, Belly Drum+Synthesis set up Chesnaught straightforward to +6 without losing health. Also screw these Dragon Dancers since Lando-T can just get its Atk and Spe to +2/+2 in one turn!
You can even forgo Return on Pinsir to make base 70 (before Aerilate) power priority Flying-type move that hits twice and bypasses Protect!
And Skarmory now has nice combo of Defog+Stealth Rock to win hazard wars without losing momentum
It improves everything: offense, balance and stall simultaneously!
Less predictions for offense: just link coverage moves together and make an explosive suicidal nuke like BB+CC Staraptor!
Although Belly Drum Chesnaught isn't that great, Belly Drum+Synthesis set up Chesnaught straightforward to +6 without losing health. Also screw these Dragon Dancers since Lando-T can just get its Atk and Spe to +2/+2 in one turn!
You can even forgo Return on Pinsir to make base 70 (before Aerilate) power priority Flying-type move that hits twice and bypasses Protect!
And Skarmory now has nice combo of Defog+Stealth Rock to win hazard wars without losing momentum
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If a relevant move is disabled due to the effecs of Taunt, Imprison or whatever, will that render both linked moves unusable both in combination and individually?
I have been deeply interested in this OM as I love Mystery Dungeon, but it's only now that I get some time to input into this :P
I have been deeply interested in this OM as I love Mystery Dungeon, but it's only now that I get some time to input into this :P
It's been stated that if a move in a link is rendered unusable the link is (temporarily if because of a temporary effect) broken.
Throbulator36 it is mentioned that the link breaks only if the PP of one of the moves runs out. In the case of taunt and Imprison, the moves affected will fail and the other move will fire off as normal. If both moves in the link are suspect to taunt/imprison, then the link fails as a whole. It would be something like:
Pokemon1 used taunt
Pokemon2 can't use status move after the taunt
Pokemon2 used attacking move
Pokemon1 used taunt
Pokemon2 can't use status move after the taunt
Pokemon2 used attacking move
Speaking of choice items, Scarf pokemon with Nasty Plot + Special STAB or Swords Dance + Physical STAB could easily be a common way of sweeping. A few cool options for using this tactic: Porygon-Z, Terrakion, Lucario, Togekiss, Mismagius, Weavile, Diggersby, Excadrill, Kabutops
how would two turn moves work?
would you charge up for solar beam then use giga drain(depending on move order) then use up your next turn on solar beam?
or use solar beam then giga drain the second turn?
or would you charge up both?
would you charge up for solar beam then use giga drain(depending on move order) then use up your next turn on solar beam?
or use solar beam then giga drain the second turn?
or would you charge up both?
^ That sounds cool for Skull Bash. Get the extra defense from Skull Bash, but also smack them with earthquake or whatever. Not sure anything useful benefits from that though.
yeah it basically works like that
Which one
canno
formerly The Reptile
What I'd assume is that it'd work like
Turn 1
X is charging up sunlight! (or w/e Solar Beam text it)
X used Giga Drain!
Turn 2
X used Solar Beam!
Also does this work the way I think it is (sorry if it's been said already)
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Beam
- U-turn
The idea is that you Hyper Beam for massive damage and then you get the hell out of there, thus negating the charge turn (this is why I have U-Turn > Volt Switch - a ground-type switching into this would destroy Heliolisk if it lived the Hyper Beam) It still has problems (if Hyper Beam kills then you're trapped for a turn), but it could be neat. It does work like that, right?
Turn 1
X is charging up sunlight! (or w/e Solar Beam text it)
X used Giga Drain!
Turn 2
X used Solar Beam!
Also does this work the way I think it is (sorry if it's been said already)
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Beam
- U-turn
The idea is that you Hyper Beam for massive damage and then you get the hell out of there, thus negating the charge turn (this is why I have U-Turn > Volt Switch - a ground-type switching into this would destroy Heliolisk if it lived the Hyper Beam) It still has problems (if Hyper Beam kills then you're trapped for a turn), but it could be neat. It does work like that, right?
Yes, it does work like that. You know what's better? Pixilate Sylveon with Hyper Beam and Baton Pass.
Edit: Maybe something like
Sylveon w/ Weakness Policy
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hyper Beam
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind / Wish
- Hidden Power [Ground]
This set takes advantage of Sylveon's low Speed and good bulk to nuke something while slowturning out. Sylveon is bulky enough that it's usually difficult to OHKO it with an SE hit unboosted, so if they do go for a super-effective attack, they eat a +2 Pixilate Hyper Beam and then have to deal with a sweeper at +2 offences. Calm Mind is mostly irrelevant and is just there for lolz, but it does get passed by Baton Pass. You could replace it with Psyshock, but Pixilate Hyper Beam outdamages it versus Chansey and Blissey anyway. Wish might also be a legitimate choice, synergizing well with Pixibeam Pass. Hidden Power Ground is to deal damage to Heatran, which quad-resists Pixibeam. In fact, HP Ground has a 50.8% chance to 2HKO Sp. Def Heatran after Leftovers.
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I guess this does make sense in some way because you're not actually selecting Solar Beam the second time, but I dunno, it seems a little confusing if the moves are linked but "sometimes aren't."
I think Copycat is a move with a lot of potential in this metagame. I know it has been mentioned earlier, but I want to post some more in-depth ideas on it. It really limits movesets in some cases, but it can allow for some really quick boosting on Pokemon with only one viable boosting move. Sorry for the long post, but I have a lot I want to say.
Getting to +4 in one turn is no laughing matter. Lucario seems like the best abuser of this, as it gets a whole host of priority moves and Agility to counteract it's mediocre Speed. This can let it perform as a very powerful priority sweeper or a fast double dancer. There are a few other pokemon that can do this, most notably Zoroark, who can set up behind an Illusion and wreak havoc with +4 Sucker Punches or Dark Pulses, or Mega-Lopunny, who can perform like a pseudo-Mega-Kangaskhan with Power-Up Punch if it really wants quick Attack.
While linking a boosting move and Baton Pass seems really intuitive, a set like this can allow for a much more potent pass in certain situations. Tail Glow is especially crazy, as it lets you get +6 Special Attack in one turn. But then again, feel free to replace Copycat for another boosting move of your choice if it fits your team better. If you're going to be passing to a mon that doesn't need 3x speed and would like more special attack instead, just run Tail Glow + Shell Smash/Quiver Dance.
I know Spinda's a gimmick, but it does have access to this unique combination, which lets it get two Superpowers off in one turn. It's a shame Baton Pass is incompatible with Superpower, or it could have a real niche. At the very least, this does let it surprise some things and makes the Superpowers hurt a lot more.
Jesus christ, that would hurt. It would kill itself nearly instantly, but it would be fun while it lasted, at least.
Moving on from Copycat, something I really think needs to be brought up is Seismic Toss + Night Shade. The four fully evolved pokemon that can run this are Sableye, Dusknoir, Mew, and Gengar, although if you expand to include Copycat, the list grows greatly, adding Clefable, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Wigglytuff, Plusle, Minun, Spinda and Sudowoodo.
Is it a good idea to allow one of the things that made Mega-Kangaskhan so broken on these Pokemon? Admittedly, they need to use two moveslots in order to do it, but it could turn stuff like Clefable or Mew into really potent bulky attackers that are a lot harder to switch into. I'm honestly surprised this move combination hasn't been brought up yet.
Edit: Seismic Toss and Copycat are illegal on Chansey.
Lucario
- Swords Dance/Nasty Plot
- Copycat/Agility
- Extreme Speed/Vacuum Wave/Bullet Punch
- Filler
- Swords Dance/Nasty Plot
- Copycat/Agility
- Extreme Speed/Vacuum Wave/Bullet Punch
- Filler
Getting to +4 in one turn is no laughing matter. Lucario seems like the best abuser of this, as it gets a whole host of priority moves and Agility to counteract it's mediocre Speed. This can let it perform as a very powerful priority sweeper or a fast double dancer. There are a few other pokemon that can do this, most notably Zoroark, who can set up behind an Illusion and wreak havoc with +4 Sucker Punches or Dark Pulses, or Mega-Lopunny, who can perform like a pseudo-Mega-Kangaskhan with Power-Up Punch if it really wants quick Attack.
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow/Shell Smash/Quiver Dance
- Copycat
- Spore
- Baton Pass
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow/Shell Smash/Quiver Dance
- Copycat
- Spore
- Baton Pass
While linking a boosting move and Baton Pass seems really intuitive, a set like this can allow for a much more potent pass in certain situations. Tail Glow is especially crazy, as it lets you get +6 Special Attack in one turn. But then again, feel free to replace Copycat for another boosting move of your choice if it fits your team better. If you're going to be passing to a mon that doesn't need 3x speed and would like more special attack instead, just run Tail Glow + Shell Smash/Quiver Dance.
Spinda
Ability: Contrary
- Superpower
- Copycat
Ability: Contrary
- Superpower
- Copycat
I know Spinda's a gimmick, but it does have access to this unique combination, which lets it get two Superpowers off in one turn. It's a shame Baton Pass is incompatible with Superpower, or it could have a real niche. At the very least, this does let it surprise some things and makes the Superpowers hurt a lot more.
release when (Floette-Eternal-Flower) (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Copycat
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Copycat
Jesus christ, that would hurt. It would kill itself nearly instantly, but it would be fun while it lasted, at least.
Moving on from Copycat, something I really think needs to be brought up is Seismic Toss + Night Shade. The four fully evolved pokemon that can run this are Sableye, Dusknoir, Mew, and Gengar, although if you expand to include Copycat, the list grows greatly, adding Clefable, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Wigglytuff, Plusle, Minun, Spinda and Sudowoodo.
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Keen Eye (prankster's illegal)
- Seismic Toss
- Night Shade
- Recover
Ability: Keen Eye (prankster's illegal)
- Seismic Toss
- Night Shade
- Recover
Is it a good idea to allow one of the things that made Mega-Kangaskhan so broken on these Pokemon? Admittedly, they need to use two moveslots in order to do it, but it could turn stuff like Clefable or Mew into really potent bulky attackers that are a lot harder to switch into. I'm honestly surprised this move combination hasn't been brought up yet.
Edit: Seismic Toss and Copycat are illegal on Chansey.
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On that same train of thought
Super Fang + Seismic Toss: Sandslash, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Mew, Granbull, Mawile
No one learns Super Fang + Copycat, but there is very little that this combo won't do more damage to anyways
EDIT: Fun Fact: Parental Bond Super Fang + Seismic Toss are what combine to make STABmons Mega Kangaskhan the most broken thing ever, even in Ubers.
Super Fang + Seismic Toss: Sandslash, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Mew, Granbull, Mawile
No one learns Super Fang + Copycat, but there is very little that this combo won't do more damage to anyways
EDIT: Fun Fact: Parental Bond Super Fang + Seismic Toss are what combine to make STABmons Mega Kangaskhan the most broken thing ever, even in Ubers.
woah, imagine that sandlash on a sandstorm team. Extremely fast AND extremely powerful, not to mention that the only pokemon to resist the link are ghost types, which are hit SE by knock off.
With that, it would only have one moveslot for attacking. I wouldn't use it, an unboosted Moonblast is awfully weak, and Stored Power leaves you at the whim of Dark-types. Copycat doesn't really seem to be much use on defensive boosters, since once they get to +6, they have one less moveslot to make use of it, since they have to have a healing move. You could use it as another attack in some situations, and it would be kind of nifty to copy your opponent's boosts as they boost alongside you, but overall you probably want a more reliable option.
If I was running a clefable like that, I would link Cosmic Power and Charge Beam. Now that would be a gimmick to behold.
I was trying to think of a way to exploit the "lower priority sets the tone" rule, and this is what I thought of:
NO U (Aggron) @ Leftovers
- Metal Burst
- Focus Punch / Roar / Dragon Tail
- Stuff
- Things
Metal Burst now gets the negative priority it always wanted when paired with Focus Punch or a phazing move of choice; the former lets Aggron punish those that would choose not to attack it, while the latter puts a stop to things that would like to set up on it.
On that note, I think Phazing + U-Turn/Volt Switch could be a fun link -- imagine using the slowest Volt/Switch imaginable to send out your best answer to what they didn't want on the field to begin with.
And, lastly, something from Gen V that could be a fun gimmick:
Timmy (Pineco) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
Pineco can set up hazards and Pain Split the opponent at the same time -- with double-hit moves being fairly common, it appreciates the ability to not waste turns getting its HP back. The other hazard can go in slot 3 for when you're not in danger of getting rekt. The last move can be Stealth Rock because Stealth Rock, or Toxic to wear things down. Spamming the aforementioned phaze-turn link with Pineco as a lead could make for some lulzy games if it somehow works, though it's obviously a fragile strategy.
EDIT:
And besides, with phazing being both easy and desirable in this meta, I don't know if I want to spend a turn doing nothing but set up unless I'm likely to wreck face shortly thereafter.
NO U (Aggron) @ Leftovers
- Metal Burst
- Focus Punch / Roar / Dragon Tail
- Stuff
- Things
Metal Burst now gets the negative priority it always wanted when paired with Focus Punch or a phazing move of choice; the former lets Aggron punish those that would choose not to attack it, while the latter puts a stop to things that would like to set up on it.
On that note, I think Phazing + U-Turn/Volt Switch could be a fun link -- imagine using the slowest Volt/Switch imaginable to send out your best answer to what they didn't want on the field to begin with.
And, lastly, something from Gen V that could be a fun gimmick:
Timmy (Pineco) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
Pineco can set up hazards and Pain Split the opponent at the same time -- with double-hit moves being fairly common, it appreciates the ability to not waste turns getting its HP back. The other hazard can go in slot 3 for when you're not in danger of getting rekt. The last move can be Stealth Rock because Stealth Rock, or Toxic to wear things down. Spamming the aforementioned phaze-turn link with Pineco as a lead could make for some lulzy games if it somehow works, though it's obviously a fragile strategy.
EDIT:
I'd sooner run Calm Mind and Stored Power in a link on offensive Clefable. 2x Cosmic Power on one turn and Stored Power the next gives 100BP of Stored Power over those turns, while two turns of CM+SP gives a 60BP Stored Power at +1 and then an 100BP hit at +2 for an effective 290BP of Stored Power in the same timespan. It's weaker to physical moves, but I think the massively better damage output is worth the trade-off.Hack Guy said:
And besides, with phazing being both easy and desirable in this meta, I don't know if I want to spend a turn doing nothing but set up unless I'm likely to wreck face shortly thereafter.
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