Pokémon Emboar

[Jaguar360]

Approved by Alexwolf
Emboar

Type:

Stats: 110/123/65/100/65/65
Abilties:
Blaze - "When HP is below 1/3rd its maximum, power of Fire-type moves is increased by 50%."
Reckless (Hidden Ability) - "The power of moves that have recoil damage is increased by 20%."

Notable Moves (STAB in bold, status in italics):

• Flare Blitz
• Wild Charge
• Superpower
• Hammer Arm
• Low Kick
• Sucker Punch
• Head Smash
• Flame Charge
• Fire Blast
• Flamethrower
• Scald
• Focus Blast
• Power-Up Punch
• Grass Knot
• Will-O-Wisp
• Bulk Up
  
• Taunt
• Earthquake

Overview:
Emboar has never seen usage in singles outside of RU, but with the release of Reckless Emboar in January 2015, Emboar can finally see light as a powerful wallbreaker in OU. Emboar has a near-perfect movepool to utilize Reckless with as well as a nice 110 base HP stat to take recoil more easily than others. Emboar also has a fairly unique defensive typing, only shared with Infernape for OU viable mons, making it immune to burn and neutral to all forms of hazard damage. These traits make it a great Choice Band user in OU, though other sets may prove to be worthwhile.

Potential Movesets:

Choice Scarf Attacker
Emboar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Head Smash / Grass Knot
Choice Scarf Emboar outspeeds base 121s (Mega Pidgeot/Tornadus-T) and below with full investment, making in a prime candidate for a Choice Scarf user in OU. With Reckless, it hits fairly hard while getting opportunities to attack thanks to its excellent speed tier. This is Emboar's easiest and generally most effective set in OU, though it functions quite differently from the sets below.

216 EVs outspeed Starmie, Azelf and Raikou while giving it a bit more HP to take recoil or hits.
Choice Band Wallbreaker
Emboar @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Superpower / Hammer Arm
- Head Smash / Grass Knot
Emboar's power is terrifying when equipped with a Choice Band and its hidden ability. It tears apart nearly all physical and special walls in OU with the right prediction and can't be burned. With the given Nature and EVs, Emboar outspeeds Adamant Bisharp, defensive variants of Mew, Celebi and Jirachi, non-Scarf Magnezone, non-Scarf Gothitelle, standard Tentacruel and standard Rotom-W, alllowing it to outpace most Pokemon on stall and bulky offense. It has enough bulk and useful resistances to find opportunities to nuke against offensive teams as well. Flare Blitz and Wild Charge are necessary to have, along with Fighting STAB (Superpower is recommended for the immediate power). Head Smash offers powerful coverage that allows it to get some OHKOs on super-effective targets and hits Pokemon that resist its STAB combination (like Altaria) hard while Grass Knot lures in some bulky Ground and Water types like Hippowdown, Quagsire, Rhyperior and Swampert.

Calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 217-256 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 201-237 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 210-247 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 216-254 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 408-482 (102.5 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 204-240 (67.5 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 304-358 (100.6 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 185-218 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 274-324 (91 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 297-351 (75.3 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 156-184 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 260-307 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 261-307 (61.7 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 432-510 (102.1 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
24 SpA Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 230-272 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 292-348 (74.1 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
24 SpA Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Life Orb Mixed Attacker (Credit to Jaroda)
Emboar @ Life Orb
Reckless
Naive 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower/Hammer Arm
- Sucker Punch
- Grass Knot/Wild Charge

This set actually makes Emboar dangerous and not nearly as self destructive when only 1/2 of your moves will have recoil. Looking at the tier list you need Wild Charge for less than you think. Neutral Flare Blitz is actually equal in power as a super effective Wild Charge. Many of the Water types are either faster and you shouldn't face anyway, Wild Charge doesn't OHKO, or one of your other moves are better for it anyway. Specially defensive Politoed has a 50% chance to die from Superpower after SR for example, and both it and Grass Knot are 2HKO on Slowbro with SR and Leftovers. What you do need Wild Charge for is Suicune, Azumarill, Alomomola, and Tentacruel. Meanwhile Grass Knot now lets you take on Hippowdon, Rhyperior, M-Slowbro, Quagsire, Swampert, Seismetoad, and Gastrodon and many of the Water types Wild Charge was for but without recoil damage. This is potentially his best set the more I think about it, may be worth adding more SpA for certain KOs.

Life Orb calcs

]32 SpA Life Orb Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 187-221 (47.4 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
32 SpA Life Orb Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 302-356 (71.9 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 265-312 (87.7 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 419-493 (106.8 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 305-360 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 226-266 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
32 SpA Life Orb Emboar Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 276-328 (64.7 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 650-767 (92.3 - 108.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Other Options:
Emboar doesn't seem to have many other viable sets, but Expert Belt, Assault Vest and defensive sets may be worth looking into. Choice Scarf will likely be its defining set in OU.

Checks and Counters:
Counters for Band Emboar are slim in number if there are any. Landorus-T is currently the most commonly used of switch-ins to it but even defensive variants are 2HKOed after Stealth Rock (and Emboar actually outspeeds defensive Lando-T). Mega Slowbro fails to take over 50% for anything that Emboar can throw at it, but after Stealth Rock or Spikes damage, it has a high chance of being 2HKOed by Choice Band Wild Charge. Mega Altaria is a hard check, particularly with defense investment, but Band Head Smash is a clean 2HKO for any set and it must be Mega Evolved to check it well. Quagsire is a decent switch-in, but Superpower 2HKOs and Unaware backfires against it in this case. Offensively, it can easily be revenge killed by Talonflame and most other faster Pokemon with super-effective coverage.

Scarf Emboar has less offensive checks, but it gains many defensive counters. Landorus-T and Rotom-W are the biggest and most common threats against it. Offensively, it's checked by Scarf Heatran, Mega Manectric, Mega Aerodactyl, Talonflame, Azumarill and Mega Alakazam among others, while it is checked or countered by Slowbro, Quagsire, Mega Altaria and Hippowdon defensively.
Teammates:
Emboar greatly appreciates Stealth Rock support like most Pokemon, and Landorus-T, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Ferrothorn and Clefable are fairly reliable setters. Checks to common fast Pokemon like Scarf Landorus-T, Greninja, Talonflame and Keldeo are generally helpful as well as Aqua Jet users like Azumarill and Crawdaunt. Rain teams also will give Emboar problems, so Ferrothorn, Mega Alakazam and Mega Venusaur are great partners in this respect.

Will Emboar have a place in OU? Discuss!

 

[heritage]

Rip Samurott with its useless ability
Head Smash and Flare Blitz are going to hit like freaking trucks, there's no doubt about that. My problem is, Fire / Fighting is a pretty bad defensive typing, since Birdspam and Bulky Water types are everywhere. It does have ok bulk (I guess). It's basically a similar Staraptor in my opinion. At least Staraptor has U-Turn, reliable recovery (if you really want to run Roost, idk why) and it's a lot faster. Emboar can't be Burned, however, and it's not walled by Skarm, so that's pretty cool. Does Superpower get boosted by Reckless? I don't think it does, just curious.

 

[Questro]

Rip Samurott with its useless ability
Head Smash and Flare Blitz are going to hit like freaking trucks, there's no doubt about that. My problem is, Fire / Fighting is a pretty bad defensive typing, since Birdspam and Bulky Water types are everywhere. It does have ok bulk (I guess). It's basically a similar Staraptor in my opinion. At least Staraptor has U-Turn, reliable recovery (if you really want to run Roost, idk why) and it's a lot faster. Emboar can't be Burned, however, and it's not walled by Skarm, so that's pretty cool. Does Superpower get boosted by Reckless? I don't think it does, just curious.

Superpower has no recoil damage so no, it is not affected by reckless.

 

[wolfenstein]

Rip Samurott with its useless ability
Head Smash and Flare Blitz are going to hit like freaking trucks, there's no doubt about that. My problem is, Fire / Fighting is a pretty bad defensive typing, since Birdspam and Bulky Water types are everywhere. It does have ok bulk (I guess). It's basically a similar Staraptor in my opinion. At least Staraptor has U-Turn, reliable recovery (if you really want to run Roost, idk why) and it's a lot faster. Emboar can't be Burned, however, and it's not walled by Skarm, so that's pretty cool. Does Superpower get boosted by Reckless? I don't think it does, just curious.

It doesnt get boosted. rip.

Anyway, I don't think fire/fighting is too bad... perhaps defensively yes, but offensively it's pretty strong with reckless and it has coverage for a lot of things, boosted wild charge for water types which probably still wont do much considering the water types these days reach like 500 defense... Fighting stab helps it beat rock types and the fighting type means it only takes neutral damage from rock moves, so that is very helpful. Before people flock in to say that it is outclassed by victini, I wouldn't jump to conclusions. Try it out when reckless is released, i can for sure see it having a niche over tini and it sure as hell hits a lot harder so rip stall.

 

[Firebird101]

I'm gonna be cynical here and say it's gonna be outclassed. OU has so many awesome fire types to choose from so the competition is really high and Victini is the go-to-physical nuke and Emboar will have to prove it's better than Darmanitan before it can compete against Victini. Simple fighting game logic ^^

 

[Questro]

I'm gonna be cynical here and say it's gonna be outclassed. OU has so many awesome fire types to choose from so the competition is really high and Victini is the go-to-physical nuke and Emboar will have to prove it's better than Darmanitan before it can compete against Victini. Simple fighting game logic ^^

Darmanitan and Victini are comparable, yes: both have a Physical fire nuke and use U-turn to wear down checks/counters before using their fire stabs. However, Emboar functions a bit differently in my opinion. Since it doesn't have the luxury to U-turn out, Emboar is nuking a switch-in EVERY time and actually has a usable secondary stab. Its typing also means that it won't have to worry about Rocks as much (which is HUGE for a fire type), whereas the other two do.

On top of that rocks neutrality, Emboar can be a check to Bisharp, a big threat to offensive teams, in the same manner Victini used to be M-garde's check for offensive teams. Darmanitan can't really compete here.

And really, how many Darmanitans have you seen in OU? If we really wanted to compare Emboar, we would look towards the obvious Infernape, Charizards, and Talonflame for competition of an offensive fire slot, and 'mons like Crawdaunt or Diggersby for slow wallbreakers. And there are still things like Heatran among others that potentially can give Emboar a run for its money despite different roles (unless you like stacking water/ground weaknesses). Darmanitan is one of the last things I would consider for comparison, especially for Emboar.

As for my thoughts on Emboar itself, it's obviously a very strong wallbreaker, especially with the current popularity that M-sableye is enjoying right now on stall teams. Defog/Spin support isn't completely necessary since it will probably die to recoil anyway, thought it's always nice. It's just always a turn-off for me, though, when Fire types lose that awesome Fairy resistance, which means you'll usually have to look to steel types as your main Fairy switch-ins on certain teams and playstyles. It'll be pretty nice to see I don't have to always have a Keldeo or Conk now to handle Bisharp or Weavile on more offensively-inclined teams.

 

[Hootie]

This thing is way too frail and slow for its own good. It will be great in RU maybe evn make a splash in UU, but in OU it is completely outclassed by other fire-type wall breakers in Victini and Zard-Y. It's just not that good tbh. The only thing it has over them is lack of SR weakness, but even then it still needs Defog support with all of the recoil it has to endure. It does hit hard no doubt.

 

[Sgt. Stardust]

I don't think a 20% boost to flare blitz and head smash (which has garbage accuracy) is enough to make this thing viable in OU. As others above has said, it's outclassed by other physical fire types. It trades not being weak to rocks for being weak to birdspam. Is this thing really better than even Darmanitan, a poke that's so unviable that we're literally forbidden to talk about it in the viability thread?

 

[Vengeance417]

This thing is way too frail and slow for its own good. It will be great in RU maybe evn make a splash in UU, but in OU it is completely outclassed by other fire-type wall breakers in Victini and Zard-Y. It's just not that good tbh. The only thing it has over them is lack of SR weakness, but even then it still needs Defog support with all of the recoil it has to endure.

As people have been saying here, I wouldn't say it's ENTIRELY outclassed by Victini. Neutral to rocks like you said and isn't checked by Bisharp unlike Victini and Zard Y after rocks. Also, unlike both Victini and Zard Y, Emboar got priority in Sucker Punch this gen, which actually allows Emboar to check Victini himself.

252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 276-326 (80.9 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Edit: Also, Heatran doesn't wall Emboar, unlike Focus Blast-less Zard Y and Victini.

 

[Hootie]

As people have been saying here, I wouldn't say it's ENTIRELY outclassed by Victini. Neutral to rocks like you said and isn't checked by Bisharp unlike Victini and Zard Y after rocks. Also, unlike both Victini and Zard Y, Emboar got priority in Sucker Punch this gen, which actually allows Emboar to check Victini himself.

252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 276-326 (80.9 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Edit: Also, Heatran doesn't wall Emboar, unlike Focus Blast-less Zard Y and Victini.

Expect V-Create inflicts no recoil and he has much better bulk and speed so while being weak to SR sucks still at least it doesn't suffer the recoil of Flare Blitz. I will give you the fact that it can check Bisharp, but idk if that makes it viable in OU. Guess we'll see how it turns out.

 

[JungleB]

While I don't think it's going to be too significant, I think Emboar may be able to care a small niche for himself in OU, purely do to it's typing.

While Victini and Zard X may be overall better, Emboar's typing allows it to fulfil a similar role for teams that don't have and open mega slot and / or can't afford to have a pokemon with that typing on their team.

Also, a neutrality to stealth rock is key as it allows the team's hazard removal to be but under less pressure. It's competition are both weak to stealh rock, and Charizard is doubly so in it's base form.

I doubt it will make such of a splash, but I wouldn't go as far to say it's unviable in OU. It's a nice pokemon for a similar role to it's competition without a lot of their disadvantages. Not exactly the kind of pokemon to build a team around, but more of a glue type pokemon that can tie everything together.

I would guess it's going to be max C rank, min D rank.

 

[Firebird101]

Just calculated choice scarfed Emboar's speed and it just barely loses to Greninja. Dunno if it will be significant but outspeeding Greninja would have been nice. That poor speed is probably Emboar's biggest flaw and it will be easy to revenge kill and forced out quite often.

Darmanitan and Victini are comparable, yes: both have a Physical fire nuke and use U-turn to wear down checks/counters before using their fire stabs. However, Emboar functions a bit differently in my opinion. Since it doesn't have the luxury to U-turn out, Emboar is nuking a switch-in EVERY time and actually has a usable secondary stab. Its typing also means that it won't have to worry about Rocks as much (which is HUGE for a fire type), whereas the other two do.

On top of that rocks neutrality, Emboar can be a check to Bisharp, a big threat to offensive teams, in the same manner Victini used to be M-garde's check for offensive teams. Darmanitan can't really compete here.

And really, how many Darmanitans have you seen in OU? If we really wanted to compare Emboar, we would look towards the obvious Infernape, Charizards, and Talonflame for competition of an offensive fire slot, and 'mons like Crawdaunt or Diggersby for slow wallbreakers. And there are still things like Heatran among others that potentially can give Emboar a run for its money despite different roles (unless you like stacking water/ground weaknesses). Darmanitan is one of the last things I would consider for comparison, especially for Emboar.

True, it is definitely more unique than Darmanitan and I mostly compared them as they are both fire wallbreakers and with Darmanitan outclassed by Victini Emboar would have to have something to unique and valuable niches. It is probably more alike to Staraptor if anything as both of them are suicidal wallbreakers ^^ but unlike Staraptor it has really mediocre speed and so it will have a unsatisfactory speed even with choice scarf against offense, choice band set has potential but it has it's obvious flaws as well. It can have some valuable niche like you said but I don't think it will be higher than C+, but I'm usually wrong anyways so who knows ^^

 

[pika pal]

Just calculated choice scarfed Emboar's speed and it just barely loses to Greninja. Dunno if it will be significant but outspeeding Greninja would have been nice. That poor speed is probably Emboar's biggest flaw and it will be easy to revenge kill and forced out quite often.


True, it is definitely more unique than Darmanitan and I mostly compared them as they are both fire wallbreakers and with Darmanitan outclassed by Victini Emboar would have to have something to unique and valuable niches. It is probably more alike to Staraptor if anything as both of them are suicidal wallbreakers ^^ but unlike Staraptor it has really mediocre speed and so it will have a unsatisfactory speed even with choice scarf against offense, choice band set has potential but it has it's obvious flaws as well. It can have some valuable niche like you said but I don't think it will be higher than C+, but I'm usually wrong anyways so who knows ^^

One damn point. Guess it can tie with HP Fire sets?
Hey, if Tyranitar can run a decent Scarf Set, I don't see why Emboar couldn't pull one off with so much more fire power behind its moves.

 

[Karxrida]

You should never run Sucker Punch on any Choice set, because getting locked into it really fucking sucks if something decides to not attack or uses faster priority.

Speaking of Choice sets, a Jolly Scarf set loses out to Greninja by 1 point.

 

[Gary]

I honestly don't see how a slightly more powerful Flare Blitz and Wild Charge is enough to make Emboar viable lol. It's still the same Pokemon, just a bit more powerful. It's not something as significant as Contrary Superior which basically took a useless Pokemon and turned it into a viable OU threat. Serp itself doesn't really face competition as a Grass-type either, other than from Mega Scep, which takes up a Mega slot and can't clean up or wallbreak nearly as well as Serp (in theory of course) which actually gives it a significant niche over other Pokemon. Emboar was always a check to Bisharp, but that didn't make it better than Victini or even Darm, which rarely sees usage. As a wallbreaker, I see very little reason to use it over Victini which has significantly higher Speed, bulk, and more coverage options. As a Scarf user, if I wanted a cleaner that was a Fire-type, I'd just use Darm lol, which again, still sucks but its Scarf set is powerful and can clean up teams nicely with some support. Scarf Emboar is outsped by significant Pokemon such as Greninja, Lop, and Scep, which it would otherwise make for a decent check to.

All in all, Reckless does next to nothing for Emboar in OU. It makes it less useless, but not neccesarily worth using. There are so many amazing wallbreakers in OU at the moment that I really don't see why I would choose something like Emboar, which possesses very little outside of a powerful Flare Blitz. As a Scarfer, it's too slow and outclassed by other revenge killers. And please quit it on the ASSAULT VEST ON EVERYTHING shit, why do we want to be like blametruth so much? There's a reason why you rarely see AV users outside of Conk and Azu (which doesn't really run AV anymore because its biggest niche in countering ninja is over).

Emboar is bad, and there's no way Reckless is enough to save it from the depths of the lower tiers.

 

[D_what]

I'd be convinced if someone could show me a decent core with Emboar in it that wouldn't be better if there was something (Like Victini, or another wallbreaker) else in the core instead. Almost by definition, that's a niche, and given how differently Emboar and Infernape work you'd hope there'd be a unique core role based somewhat on it's typing. But I can't see it working out. Might as well argue why Rampardos or rock-dragon-thing(tm) aren't used in OU.

Fire/Fighting type nuke? Sounds useful. In theory :|

 

[Jaguar360]

I think that some of you are missing things about Emboar. For one thing, literally nothing walls it. When you send it out, something is always going to get 2HKOed unless you mispredict. You may say that Rampardos and Victini do the same thing, but the former has an awful typing, is slower and much more frail and the latter, while a very solid Pokemon, is Pursuit-weak and takes more damage from Stealth Rock. Fire/Fighting is not a bad typing at all, packing useful resistances to Grass, Fire, Steel, Bug, Ice and Dark (Fire, Ice and Dark are particularly important) and being weak to Psychic, Water, Flying and Ground.

Emboar seems a lot more comparable to Dragalge, a Pokemon with low speed that can run enough speed to outpace common threats, a unique typing, decent bulk and a neutrality to SR that can come in, nuke something, then switch out to do so again later in the match. While Emboar is taking recoil, his strongest move doesn't make him drop his stats and immunities to his moves are far less common than immunities to Poison and Dragon. Heatran is the only viable user of Flash Fire in OU and it is OHKOed by Fighting STAB and 2HKOed by coverage. There are only two common Ghosts in OU, being Gengar and Sableye and they are both OHKOed/2HKOed by Flare Blitz or Head Smash.

The only big cons that I can see about Emboar are that it's vulnerable to the common Greninja, Lando-T and Talonflame and that it can struggle to get in on some offensive teams, which will probably prevent it from getting out of RU by usage, but I can see it being viable in OU; perhaps a C+ threat like Dragalge is now.

We really need to get some testing on it, so that we can stop arguing in theorymon like this though. :/ I probably won't be able to test it myself too soon, so it would be great if someone could use it in a custom game and provide a replay or something so that we can visualize how it works.

 

[Verminator]

I feel like it you' re going to talk about Emboar's viability as a fire type wallbreaker, you have to take into account its access to a good priority move in the shape of Sucker Punch. That's something that neither Darmanitan, Victini, or Charizard Y has, and it allows it to pull its weight more easily against more offensive teams while making it potentially harder to force out after it gets a kill. Instead of a Choice set, the most attractive set to me would be with Life Orb and with Hammer Arm over Superpower for the sake of not being subject to an attack drop, so that Sucker Punch retains its full power.

 

[D_what]

Hrrrm. Maybe it can form part of a pseudo-Birdspam core? In the same way Talonflame and Staraptor are - Talonflame and Emboar? I'll have run calcs - while Emboar has arguably better dual STABs, is burn-proof, and isn't as weak to SR, it's much, much slower than Staraptor and might have to run Scarf over Band. Both get a form of priority, though Staraptor gets U-turn. And Fire probably isn't as good a type to spam as Flying because of Rain and Flash Fire.

Things I'll try to calc later - Emboar VS:
Rotom-W
Heatran
Tyranitar
Landorus-T (I can't see this working out well)
Thundurus
MManectric
MAero (Or this)
????? Am I forgetting anything important and not pointless ?????

 

[Jaguar360]

I feel like it you' re going to talk about Emboar's viability as a fire type wallbreaker, you have to take into account its access to a good priority move in the shape of Sucker Punch. That's something that neither Darmanitan, Victini, or Charizard Y has, and it allows it to pull its weight more easily against more offensive teams while making it potentially harder to force out after it gets a kill. Instead of a Choice set, the most attractive set to me would be with Life Orb and with Hammer Arm over Superpower for the sake of not being subject to an attack drop, so that Sucker Punch retains its full power.

I was wary about Life Orb because of the recoil, but it does work well with Sucker Punch and Hammer Arm and also lets it go mixed with HP Ice or Grass Knot if it needs to. Maybe this set could be added to the OP?
Emboar @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 40 HP (or SAtk if mixed) / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Sucker Punch
- Hammer Arm
- Wild Charge/Head Smash/Hidden Power Ice/Grass Knot
I don't know though. I need to do some calcs to iron out the set and then maybe test it out if I can.

EDIT: Doing some quick calcs, HP Ice and Grass Knot don't seem worth it at all, as HP Ice fails to 2HKO offensive Mega Altaria with 40 EVs and a Life Orb and defensive Lando-T and Gliscor aren't OHKOed. Grass Knot is more useful since it OHKOs Quagsire and Rhyperior and 2HKOs Slowbro after SR, but it doesn't seem very useful aside from those.

 

[haunter]

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 192-226 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 229-271 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

This thing is gonna hit like a truck, however I don't really see it becoming OU anytime soon. Its base speed is abysmall, it has a pretty bad defensive typing and mediocre defenses. It's gonna be pretty difficult to switch it in and, between SR and recoil damage its going to die fast anyway.

 

[BlueLobster]

It seems like Dragalge IMO, not solid enough to be OU, but certainly very viable. With Healing/Wish support thid thing can nuke effectively without dying, boosted head smash covers the flying weakness, sucker punch covers the psychic one V offensive pokes. I don't see why people are saying it can be worse than Daranmitan, it has a great second typing allowing it to it Heatran much better, has priority and isn't frail.

It's a great nuke and can hit many threats without worrying about sucker punch like Victini (looks at Bisharp) but overall will probably go UU like Serp seems like it'll head for.

 

[Kurona]

I'd be a lot more convinced if someone could provide calcs of KOs/2HKOs Reckless Emboar can get that Blaze Emboar can't, because most of the arguments so far are really for Emboar's other traits other than Reckless. Serperior at least got a pretty game-changing ability that completely transforms it, Emboar... got a little more power. If someone can show me that the extra power really matters in making it viable, I could see why people are hyping it beyond just new toy syndrome.

 

[Jaguar360]

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 175-207 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 145-172 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 134-158 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 408-482 (102.5 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Wild Charge vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 340-402 (85.4 - 101%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 156-184 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 129-153 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 153-180 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 294-346 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 244-288 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's not a full list, but I'd say that the 20% extra damage from Reckless helps a lot.

 

[Jaroda]

The big downfall is the speed. Can't outspeed Greninja at +1? That's like the minimum a scarf user should be faster then. And of course, Greninja resists Sucker Punch initially.

Regarding Reckless it is outclassed by Staraptor and Mienshao. Both have far superior Speed at 100 and 105 respectively, as well as U-Turn, and Mienshao has the benefit of having the strongest Reckless boosted move that actually only causes recoil when you miss. They also all have Attack between 120 and 125.

At least Emboar as the widest variety of Reckless boosted moves, as well as priority in the form of Sucker Punch, which is actually pretty useful. Unfortunately CB Sucker Punch is horrid and LO plus recoil will kill you FAR quicker than its worth. And you know what, I started devising an Air Balloon set that could take advantage of an immunity, but then the power output is just abysmal and not worth it.

Sorry, I don't see Emboar working. I'm not at all optimistic about it.