Substitutions Overhaul

[Frosty]

Nay

I included it due to suggestions, but I find it largely unnecessary. At least I never found myself wanting to push back a sub.

 

[Dogfish44]

Yay

 

[Matezoide]

Nay

 

[AOPSUser]

Yay

 

[Avnomke]

Yay

 

[deadfox081]

Nay

 

[Frosty]

Upon further consideration I am changing my vote to Yay. While I still find it unnecessary, it doesn't hurt to keep it as an option just in case, I suppose...

So Yay it is.

Proposal 4:

If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will be ignored.
If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will call for Struggle

deadfox081
Dogfish44
Avnomke
AOPSUser
Matezoide
Frosty
Leethoof

 

[Dogfish44]

If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will be ignored.

Let us end the infinite "AND NOT Taunted" subs.

 

[Avnomke]

If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will call for Struggle.

 

[Frosty]

If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will be ignored.

 

[Matezoide]

If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will be ignored.

 

[AOPSUser]

If the substitution was made illegal after the round started, it will be ignored.

I believe this here is majority.

 

[Frosty]

Indeed.

- - - -

Proposal 5: On "NOT" Booleans

(last one)

a) Allow 1 use of a "NOT" boolean before an attack clause per sub (so IF Water-Typed damaging move AND NOT surf THEN protect is valid)
b) Allow the (unlimited) usage of "NOT" booleans before an attack clause (so IF Water-Typed damaging move AND NOT surf AND NOT muddy water AND NOT water Spout THEN protect is valid)
c) [As Is] Disallow the usage of "NOT" booleans before an attack clause (so IF Water-Typed Damaging Move AND NOT surf THEN protect remains illegal)
d) Back to the drawing board because of X

(order it to favourite to least favourite)


deadfox081
Dogfish44
Avnomke
AOPSUser
Matezoide
Frosty
Leethoof

 

[AOPSUser]

c
a
d
b

I like this the way it is.

 

[Avnomke]

a
c
d
b

Infinite NOTs might be the most broken thing to put in subs.

 

[Matezoide]

A

C

D

B

Anything but B, really.

 

[Leethoof]

C
A
D
B

 

[Frosty]

A
c
d
b

One not wont break anything. And again: last to order advantage is massive enough to warrant changes like this.

 

[deadfox081]

c
a
d
b

 

[Dogfish44]

C
A
B
D

One is irrelevant enough that the added confusion is simply not worth it.

 

[Frosty]

alright we are done here. Eventually someone (probably me, but if you feel like it...) will make the necessary adjustments on the handbook and post on the implementation thread. And then probably return to the subject <_<;.

 

[Frosty]

Reference: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/substitutions-overhaul.3487268/page-5#post-5982551

Hey look we are back.

Slate:

a) As Is (Chance Subs are only the ones listed)
b) Implement Frosty's Proposal
c) Keep Chance Subs as only the ones listed, but go back to discussion to figure out things we need to add to that list
d) Back to the drawing board as I don't like neither how things are nor the other options because of X

(From least favourite to Favourite)

Current Rules:

Readme

These clauses are used in case of misfortune. Most of these clauses relate in some way to whether an attack succeeds or fails, but there are a couple of more general condition clauses that can be used here. The possible chance clauses are as follows:

• If the remaining HP of Pokemon X is less than/equal to/greater than/at least/at most Y, do Z
• If the remaining energy of Pokemon X is less than/equal to/greater than/at least/at most Y, do Z
• If attack X misses, do Y
• If attack X lands a critical hit, do Y
• If attack X's secondary effect Y (such as burn or flinch) occurs, do Z
• If you currently have condition X (such as being asleep, burned or taunted), do Y (note: a specific condition must be named)
• If Pokemon X fails to act (because, for example, you hit yourself in confusion or are fully paralyzed), do Y
• If your stat X is at stage Y (or higher/lower), do Z
• If other substitution(s) X do(es) not activate, do Y

Proposal:

Readme2

My suggestion is simple: we change Chance subs to be the ones triggered if a certain circunstance happened or if the situation is in a particular manner when the pokemon is to act and use the list as examples, not excluding other kinds of circunstances. So we would go from:

Current Rules

These clauses are used in case of misfortune. Most of these clauses relate in some way to whether an attack succeeds or fails, but there are a couple of more general condition clauses that can be used here. The possible chance clauses are as follows:

• If the remaining HP of Pokemon X is less than/equal to/greater than/at least/at most Y, do Z
• If the remaining energy of Pokemon X is less than/equal to/greater than/at least/at most Y, do Z
• If attack X misses, do Y
• If attack X lands a critical hit, do Y
• If attack X's secondary effect Y (such as burn or flinch) occurs, do Z
• If you currently have condition X (such as being asleep, burned or taunted), do Y (note: a specific condition must be named)
• If Pokemon X fails to act (because, for example, you hit yourself in confusion or are fully paralyzed), do Y
• If your stat X is at stage Y (or higher/lower), do Z
• If other substitution(s) X do(es) not activate, do Y

Note that if the action that is being changed is the action when the chance-based effect like full paralysis, secondary hit activation or miss occurs, the new move's priority must be less than or equal to that of the move being replaced. Also, NOT can be used with chance clauses.

to

Proposal

These clauses are used in case of misfortune. Most of these clauses relate in some way to whether an attack succeeds or fails, but there are a couple of more general condition clauses that can be used here. Chance clauses are triggered if a certain circunstance happened or if the situation is in a particular manner when the pokemon is to act. Examples of Chances clauses are:

• If the remaining HP of Pokemon X is less than/equal to/greater than/at least/at most Y, do Z
• If the remaining energy of Pokemon X is less than/equal to/greater than/at least/at most Y, do Z
• If attack X misses, do Y
• If attack X lands a critical hit, do Y
• If attack X's secondary effect Y (such as burn or flinch) occurs, do Z
• If you currently have condition X (such as being asleep, burned or taunted), do Y (note: a specific condition must be named)
• If Pokemon X fails to act (because, for example, you hit yourself in confusion or are fully paralyzed), do Y
• If your stat X is at stage Y (or higher/lower), do Z
• If other substitution(s) X do(es) not activate, do Y

Note that if the action that is being changed is the action when the chance-based effect like full paralysis, secondary hit activation or miss occurs, the new move's priority must be less than or equal to that of the move being replaced. Also, NOT can be used with chance clauses.

If this gets implemented, then the list of examples will be extended to include other chance subs used often.

deadfox081
Dogfish44
Avnomke
AOPSUser
Matezoide
Frosty
Leethoof

 

[Dogfish44]

b) Implement Frosty's Proposal

 

[Frosty]

b) Implement Frosty's Proposal
c) Keep Chance Subs as only the ones listed, but go back to discussion to figure out things we need to add to that list
d) Back to the drawing board
a) As Is (Chance Subs are only the ones listed)

 

[Avnomke]

b) Implement Frosty's Proposal
c) Keep Chance Subs as only the ones listed, but go back to discussion to figure out things we need to add to that list
a) As Is (Chance Subs are only the ones listed)
d) Back to the drawing board as I don't like neither how things are nor the other options because of X