Newly Introduced Mega Evolutions in VGC '15

[nightwolf]

It does, as with some investment, it can
212+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Salamence: 170-204 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 135-159 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- mixed attacker
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 147-174 (80.7 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- Physical attacker
252+ SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 75-88 (41.2 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO -- Special Attacker

And exactly how many good competent vgc players do you expect to run what looks like 252 attack/sp attack 4 def 252 speed? Please actually use a realistic EV spread before doing calculations, I mean come on other than a completely new player who runs 252/4/252 ev spreads in doubles?

Mega Altaria needs Tailwind support-- found quite easily in Talonflame-- which then threatens with Flare Blitz. +2 speed (200 speed) means she outspeeds Mega-Mence, and OHKOs.

Yes she does fall to MegaGross, which other pokemon can take out. Suicune also has tailwind and threatens MegaGross with scald, and Mence with Ice Beam/Icy Wind. Fire Blast also usually deals a significant amount to MegaGross. Heatran also threatens MegaGross, and with Air Balloon, works pretty well as a partner

212+ SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 110-130 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Mega Altaria: 86-104 (47.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Mega Altaria: 98-116 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Meteor Mash always OHKOs.


Mega Altaria also threatens Mega Gallade pretty well

212+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gallade: 126-150 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Mega Altaria: 90-108 (49.4 - 59.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Mega Altaria: 100-118 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

See above as to why I have issue with both sets of calculations

Mega Altaria should always run roost as well. So she can actually take some hits

Also, why would you not run intimidate next to her, which lowers her chance to be 2HKOed by Bullet Punch, as well as acting as a pseudo boost to her defenses? Lando-T with Rock Slide and U-turn, or Hitmontop with Wide Guard and Helping Hand, or Gyarados with Waterfall and Ice Fang? All great team options.

No, Mega Altaria isn't S rank, but she should stop being counted out

If we're going to be biased and make calculations that are unrealistic for ev spreads so that we make our points look valid then I can make just as many calculations as to why altaria is bad having it run the obvious 252/4/252 spread you used for mence, gross, and gallade.

 

[tofucocoa]

And exactly how many good competent vgc players do you expect to run what looks like 252 attack/sp attack 4 def 252 speed? Please actually use a realistic EV spread before doing calculations, I mean come on other than a completely new player who runs 252/4/252 ev spreads in doubles?

uh, what exactly is wrong with 252/252 spreads? people usually only optimize ev spreads for tournaments when using a team they're comfortable with in an effort to better understand the team and make better plays, but really the same can be done with 252/252 spreads if you do enough calcs/practice enough/etc. besides, when doing damage calcs, you SHOULD be taking into account max attacks/defenses. i don't understand why you are/how you can be hung up on EV spreads like this. it seems like a very minor thing to go off on someone about.

also @ those calcs, they pretty much illustrate why mega altaria is better as a late game pokemon. heck, it might be better than mega gardevoir in that regard. the only questionable calc i see from Eeyore is the naive mence calc without a neutral special defense nature mence beside it. without it, it's rather misleading. for reference:
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 162-192 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

...which is still ok, considering you can just drop a draco meteor if you don't have any chip damage on it.

and it should be noted that altaria can provide its own tailwind support and can do neat things like disrupt weather (notably lock charizard-y into solarbeam and slow down ludicolo) with cloud nine. i have literally never played mega altaria, but this is a topic i would like to see discussed more.

also mega altaria is adorable. i mean just LOOK at its idle animation. it's preening it's ploofy cloud feathers!!! it has a pirate hat!!!! what's not to like???

 

[nightwolf]

uh, what exactly is wrong with 252/252 spreads? people usually only optimize ev spreads for tournaments when using a team they're comfortable with in an effort to better understand the team and make better plays, but really the same can be done with 252/252 spreads if you do enough calcs/practice enough/etc. besides, when doing damage calcs, you SHOULD be taking into account max attacks/defenses. i don't understand why you are/how you can be hung up on EV spreads like this. it seems like a very minor thing to go off on someone about.

also @ those calcs, they pretty much illustrate why mega altaria is better as a late game pokemon. heck, it might be better than mega gardevoir in that regard. the only questionable calc i see from Eeyore is the naive mence calc without a neutral special defense nature mence beside it. without it, it's rather misleading. for reference:
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 162-192 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

...which is still ok, considering you can just drop a draco meteor if you don't have any chip damage on it.

and it should be noted that altaria can provide its own tailwind support and can do neat things like disrupt weather (notably lock charizard-y into solarbeam and slow down ludicolo) with cloud nine. i have literally never played mega altaria, but this is a topic i would like to see discussed more.

also mega altaria is adorable. i mean just LOOK at its idle animation. it's preening it's ploofy cloud feathers!!! it has a pirate hat!!!! what's not to like???

It's a personal preference of mine and know quite a few others rarely run 252/252 themselves. 252/252/4 just leaves them open to being ohko'd and if you're not ohko'ing in return or before they do then what's the point in even going 252/4/252? Altaria does have potential in a late game situation but c'mon now if you're going to show her ohko'ing pokemon that are running 252 offensive stat 4 def 252 speed then show calcs of how she handles being the one 252 attack/sp attack 4 def/sp def 252 speed going up against pokemon with 252 attack/sp attack hitting her.

 

[Eeyore]

And exactly how many good competent vgc players do you expect to run what looks like 252 attack/sp attack 4 def 252 speed? Please actually use a realistic EV spread before doing calculations, I mean come on other than a completely new player who runs 252/4/252 ev spreads in doubles?


See above as to why I have issue with both sets of calculations



If we're going to be biased and make calculations that are unrealistic for ev spreads so that we make our points look valid then I can make just as many calculations as to why altaria is bad having it run the obvious 252/4/252 spread you used for mence, gross, and gallade.

Yes, calculating with Max stats is bad. How dare you assume the worst in terms of defensive necessity. This is calculation, not exact.

uh, what exactly is wrong with 252/252 spreads? people usually only optimize ev spreads for tournaments when using a team they're comfortable with in an effort to better understand the team and make better plays, but really the same can be done with 252/252 spreads if you do enough calcs/practice enough/etc. besides, when doing damage calcs, you SHOULD be taking into account max attacks/defenses. i don't understand why you are/how you can be hung up on EV spreads like this. it seems like a very minor thing to go off on someone about.

also @ those calcs, they pretty much illustrate why mega altaria is better as a late game pokemon. heck, it might be better than mega gardevoir in that regard. the only questionable calc i see from Eeyore is the naive mence calc without a neutral special defense nature mence beside it. without it, it's rather misleading. for reference:
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 162-192 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

...which is still ok, considering you can just drop a draco meteor if you don't have any chip damage on it.

and it should be noted that altaria can provide its own tailwind support and can do neat things like disrupt weather (notably lock charizard-y into solarbeam and slow down ludicolo) with cloud nine. i have literally never played mega altaria, but this is a topic i would like to see discussed more.

also mega altaria is adorable. i mean just LOOK at its idle animation. it's preening it's ploofy cloud feathers!!! it has a pirate hat!!!! what's not to like???

I figured naive nature for Mence because the mixed set is the one I've seen with most viability, and most people prefer low spDef over low Def to try and survive ice shard.

I also don't ask for self tailwind because I like Altaria attacking every turn, and I like Roost on my Altaria for reliable recovery, but that's personal preference

 

[nightwolf]

Yes, calculating with Max stats is bad. How dare you assume the worst in terms of defensive necessity. This is calculation, not exact.

I figured naive nature for Mence because the mixed set is the one I've seen with most viability, and most people prefer low spDef over low Def to try and survive ice shard.

I also don't ask for self tailwind because I like Altaria attacking every turn, and I like Roost on my Altaria for reliable recovery, but that's personal preference

I was talking more about how you give altaria defensive EVs and don't for salamence, metagross, or gallade when calculating the damage done by altaria.

edit: Just goofing off with ev's and I have to say, m-altaria is a very viable choice against m-salamence

212+ SpAtk Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 100 HP/116 SpDef Aerilate Mega Salamence: 182 - 216 (99.5 - 118%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

that's the absolute minimum you'd have to run on salamence to not be a guaranteed OHKO.

edit 2: I just realized in both mine and eeyores calculations the box for double battle was not clicked.

212+ SpAtk Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP/0 SpDef Aerilate Mega Salamence: 152 - 182 (89.4 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
This is from having the doubles/triples box checked

 

[Eeyore]

I was talking more about how you give altaria defensive EVs and don't for salamence, metagross, or gallade when calculating the damage done by altaria.
edit: Just goofing off with ev's and I have to say, m-altaria is a very viable choice against m-salamence

212+ SpAtk Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 100 HP/116 SpDef Aerilate Mega Salamence: 182 - 216 (99.5 - 118%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

that's the absolute minimum you'd have to run on salamence to not be a guaranteed OHKO.

edit 2: I just realized in both mine and eeyores calculations the box for double battle was not clicked.

212+ SpAtk Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP/0 SpDef Aerilate Mega Salamence: 152 - 182 (89.4 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
This is from having the doubles/triples box checked

with it not being naive, yes. I had the doubles box clicked for the naive one as well.
Both Draco Meteor and Ice Beam have a higher chance to OHKO though

0 SpA Mega Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 174-206 (102.3 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
52 SpA Mega Altaria Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 172-204 (101.1 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I was only making my calcs off of Hyper Voice.

even at full HP investment
156 SpA Mega Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 204-240 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
52+ SpA Mega Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 204-240 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
140+ SpA Mega Altaria Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 204-240 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

At Altaria's max special attack investment, Salamence must run full HP and 164 special defense not to be OHKOed by Draco Meteor,
252+ SpA Mega Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 164 SpD Mega Salamence: 200-236 (99 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
92 Special Defense not to be OHKOed by Ice Beam
252+ SpA Mega Altaria Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Mega Salamence: 200-236 (99 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

However, Hyper Voice doesn't do the same
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 162-192 (95.2 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

So, I did Hyper Voice as a base, as it'll be the most likely to be run on all Altaria's, but It has 2 more consistent kills on Salamence as well.


TL;DR, there's a LOT of potential with Altaria, and not necessarily in Hyper Voice, though that is a multi-opponent hitter. The problem is 4 move-slot syndrome with her,

You need Hyper Voice, and should run Fire Blast for Steels.
so you have one more slot before the obligatory Protect (mostly for your partner to deal with Scizor or MegaMence)
Should it be Roost, for reliable HP recovery, Ice Beam for the most neutral damage and coverage, to hit Lando-T, and Gliscor, ect, or should it be Draco for the highest Damage output.

 

[nightwolf]

TL;DR, there's a LOT of potential with Altaria, and not necessarily in Hyper Voice, though that is a multi-opponent hitter. The problem is 4 move-slot syndrome with her,

You need Hyper Voice, and should run Fire Blast for Steels.
so you have one more slot before the obligatory Protect (mostly for your partner to deal with Scizor or MegaMence)
Should it be Roost, for reliable HP recovery, Ice Beam for the most neutral damage and coverage, to hit Lando-T, and Gliscor, ect, or should it be Draco for the highest Damage output.

I think this whole part right here is the $32,000 question, it would have to depend on what you want/need imo and on the meta. Speaking of highest damage output, I really wish last resort altaria was a thing...
252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Last Resort vs. 252 HP/252 Def Aerilate Mega Salamence: 204 - 240 (101 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You'd have to run a +defense nature to live through that

 

[tofucocoa]

i've just gone through about 12 battles with a mega swampert team, and honestly, i've been kinda surprised/impressed at the results. i started out with a 1500 rating (i switch DS's somewhat often) and now i'm sitting at around 1609.

here's a match against a highly rated player that i'll probably upload to youtube when my internet stops being shitty: ZU6G-WWWW-WWWM-SK3V

and here's the gist of the team i have put together right now. no ev spreads because i don't remember exact evs and i think my thund has random evs LOL

Thundurus @ Sitrus
Calm, prankster
Thunder/thunder wave/taunt/rain dance

swampert @ stone
adamant, torrent
waterfall/EQ/ice punch/protect

politoed @ eject button
bold, drizzle
scald/ice beam/helping hand/protect

ludicolo @ assault vest
modest, swift swim
fake out/giga drain/hydro pump/ice beam

aegislash @ leftovers
modest
shadow ball/flash cannon/substitute/king shield

talonflame @ choice band
adamant, gale wings
brave bird/flare blitz/u-turn/giga impact

some quick notes on some perhaps questionable aspects of the team: my thund doesn't have HP ice so i filled the slot with rain dance, and slapped thunder just to try it out. talonflame rarely uses its 4th slot so giga impact was just there to deal good damage to rotom before it dies. politoed's eject button... i'll get to that later, but i only chose it because lefties and sitrus were in use, and it was another little trick to try out. modest sword was chosen over quiet sword... because my quiet one wasn't shiny lol [insert equal opportunity joke here]. quiet might've been better against trick room, but the two trick room teams i did face were poorly built and couldn't handle ludi+thund. the only thing that really disappointed me was thunder, but i didn't have high expectations for it anyway.

basically, it's pretty wrong to use mega swampert exclusively as a swift swimmer like ludicolo, as i found out in my first game in which i did just that and overestimated megapert's STRENGTH (i still won because i froze something with ice punch, but still). instead, i found myself using it more as a lategame (i keep using this term but i'm not sure there's even such a thing in vgc) cleaner even if it didn't have rain up because of its bulk, STAB EQ and overall STRENGTH. the fact that it can sometimes have a swift swim/waterfall boost seems more like a plus to me.

eject button politoed is something i've never paid much attention to even if i got punked by it a few times, but it works really well with mega pert to keep it alive, acting as a meatsheild basically as illustrated in the match above, and to set up rain when my opponent least expects it. i led with ludicolo/swampert a few times against standard kangaskhan+stuff, baited the fake out onto ludicolo to switch in politoed and bounce back into ludicolo for a turn 2 fake out and a fully set up swampert. of course, it created some situations where it was sort of awkward to use, like when i wanted to actually attack with politoed to knock something out, but as an exclusive rainbot, eject button is probably the best item for it in my (current) opinion.