Other The Next Best Thing - ORAS OU Edition (Discussing Gardevoir sets) Check Post #920

[hey yal]

iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite

 

[Stef0w]

god Recreant's WP Dragonite Dragon Dance sweeper

 

[The Quasar]

TheInsanity's Lure SandNite

 

[Celsius]

TheInsanity's Lure SandNite

 

[firehusky]

Here are the new standings, I will post the list on each page.
Recreant's WP Dragonite Dragon Dance sweeper - 3
DarkBlazeR's Special Life Orb Dragonite
one hitta quitta's Bulky Sub Roost Dragonite
iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite - 4
TheInsanity's Lure SandNite - 7
Mysteria's Bulky DDnite - 1
Turducken64's Specially Defensive Dragonite

 

[toxicroaker]

iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite

 

[SketchUp]

iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite

 

[BCroak]

TheInsanity's Lure SandNite

 

[one hitta quitta]

*looks at the amount of votes for the subroost set.....

 

[Jeronado]

TheInsanity's Lure SandNite

 

[Benghazi Baller]

I vote weakness policy Dragonite by Recreant. I would always use an Adamant nature do to ES. I really like to always use Earthquake, ES, and Outrage and pair Dragonite with Charizard X (Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz). It might seem redundant, but they really cover each other's weaknesses. For the Dragonite WP set, I would add 24 EVs in Defense and 228 in Speed. Having full speed is a little unecessary because after one Dragon Dance you will be faster than everything below Noivern. the extra defense allows you to survive a +1 Play Rough with multiscale up and sometimes priorities at less than 50% health. Lum berry Dragonite just really doesn't cut it for me because no one ever let's me sit and Set up multiple dragon dances for a clean sweep. WP really allows Dragonite to come in early to mid game and really wreck havoc. Lum berry would be good for an end game sweeper, but other pokemon do that way better.

 

[Nuanda92]

TheInsanity's lure sandnite

 

[firehusky]

I'll just make this clear, when the total number of votes added up = 15, the voting stops. That way we can get to a new test subject if everyone has already voted, instead of waiting for an extra few days. Right now, the vote count adds up to 15, so the voting has stopped, and *drumroll* TheInsanity 's lure SandNite wins!!

Our new test subject will be...

Thundurus-I​

 

[SketchUp]

Taunt-switch Thundurus

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt / Focus Blast

This set helps Thundurus' teammates get past defensive teams more easily. Taunt shuts defensive pokemon down and Thundurus can grab momentum by Volt Switch. If the opponent switches out, you have a free switch in your counter for that pokemon. Even though it doesn't have as high base power as thunderbolt, volt switch hits decent against defensive pokemon often found on balanced teams

Hide

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 138-164 (45.3 - 53.9%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 103-122 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- 25.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The damage output isn't that great, but it lets Thundurus give a free switch into Greninja, Landorus-T or Magnezone, which force the oppossing pokemon out another time and let them receive even more damage. When combined with another voltturner and hazards damage, it is extremely easy to punch holes in balanced teams so your late game sweeper can clean up end game much easier

 

[heritage]

Mixed Attacker Thundurus

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power Ice

Mixed Attacking Thundurus is something I don't see a lot that really deserves much more of a mention. With so many Pokémon that have Intimidate or Defog, mixed Thundurus really makes use of Defiant. Luring in Pokémon like Landorus-T, Porygon2 and Garchomp is great after you can smack them with an HP Ice or Knock Off. Knock Off also allows you to bop the Lati twins before they can Defog, and with any prior damage, like Stealth Rocks, it turns into a guaranteed KO, which HP Ice can't do.
76 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 265-312 (87.7 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

EDIT: This isn't a hidden gem? Wtf, Weakness Policy Dragonite wasn't a 'hidden gem' but you still allowed that one in. Whatever you say I guess.

 

[firehusky]

Mixed Attacker Thundurus

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power Ice

Mixed Attacking Thundurus is something I don't see a lot that really deserves much more of a mention. With so many Pokémon that have Intimidate or Defog, mixed Thundurus really makes use of Defiant. Luring in Pokémon like Landorus-T, Porygon2 and Garchomp is great after you can smack them with an HP Ice or Knock Off. Knock Off also allows you to bop the Lati twins before they can Defog, and with any prior damage, like Stealth Rocks, it turns into a guaranteed KO, which HP Ice can't do.
76 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 265-312 (87.7 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Sorry Recreant , this set is on site already, and is commonly found on rain teams. I am mainly looking for "hidden gems", sets that aren't in the process of being put on site, or are not on site already, but can function well in the metagame.

Taunt-switch Thundurus

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt / Focus Blast

This set helps Thundurus' teammates get past defensive teams more easily. Taunt shuts defensive pokemon down and Thundurus can grab momentum by Volt Switch. If the opponent switches out, you have a free switch in your counter for that pokemon. Even though it doesn't have as high base power as thunderbolt, volt switch hits decent against defensive pokemon often found on balanced teams

Hide

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 138-164 (45.3 - 53.9%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 103-122 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- 25.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The damage output isn't that great, but it lets Thundurus give a free switch into Greninja, Landorus-T or Magnezone, which force the oppossing pokemon out another time and let them receive even more damage. When combined with another voltturner and hazards damage, it is extremely easy to punch holes in balanced teams so your late game sweeper can clean up end game much easier

This set seems pretty cool, I myself have used it before, and I can testify that it can catch people off guard and isn't gimmicky at all. Works great in tandem with u-turners such as mega scizor and landorus-t :]

EDIT: Archive has been updated

So far we have one entry:
SketchUp's Taunt Switch Thundurus

 

[TheInsanity]

I don't understand why thundurus. Thundurus is already an S threat, was an S threat in xy, in BW was uber. He is already a best thing. Probably was more interesting see the thundurus therian version, he is totally useless right now; manectric, rotom, thundurus incarnate and raikou are simply better than the therian version.

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off

Sooo, after 2 hours, i made this. I was trying to do a yache berry with agility set, buuut thundurus therian fits better in this role, because more satk. I tried a stallbreaker set, but thundurus is frail, isn't immune to status etc.
After that i was totally "omg this thing has bulk up, let's create the set" but this thing:
1 lacks of recovery, with leftovers and without LO we lost a lot of power
2 weakness to rocks, so is pretty meh set up with 75% of health and no recovery way (GF pls give drain punch to this thing)
3 with 3 moves is pretty hard sweep after only a bulk up.
4 weakness to priority, this thing has no defense, even an assault vest set is shit.

Set explanation:


The set is pretty easy, and is inspired to greninja (greninjorus) because 3 special attacks and 1 physical attack. Of course greninja is better. This is a sortsupport/lure, and should be used with mega sableye or a random fight mon.

Things like unaware clefable (but almost same for magic guard) or sylveon are able to check thundurus all day long, even the nasty plot version. Same for latias with 72 HP in evs. This set can 2kho all this pokemon. If the opponent's fairy is dead, sableye can set up calm mind and rekt everything. Keldeo and latios can 2kho sableye after a cm, thundurus can deal with both of this pokemon. Also they are very synergic for hazard control: sableye is anantispinner with the ghost typing and can bounce opponent's hazards, thundurus gets a +2 boost with defiant if the opponent use defog.

Same happens using thundurus with a fight mon: he can kill landorus and gliscor, with hp ice, destroy slowbro and azumarill.
I know that is not so original, but this things already has 2 awesome set.

Calcs:

Hide

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 234-278 (59.3 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 205-242 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 224-265 (70.2 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also thanks to everyone that vote my dragonite (or InsaNite) in the last round, and thanks to firehusky for this thread.

 

[firehusky]

I don't understand why thundurus. Thundurus is already an S threat, was an S threat in xy, in BW was uber. He is already a best thing. Probably was more interesting see the thundurus therian version, he is totally useless right now; manectric, raikou, thundurus incarnate and raikou are simply better than the therian version.

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Of

Sooo, after 2 hours, i made this. I was trying to do a yache berry with agility set, buuut thundurus therian fits better in this role, because more satk. I tried a stallbreaker set, but thundurus is frail, isn't immune to status etc.
After that i was totally "omg this thing has bulk up, let's create the set" but this thing:
1 lacks of recovery, with leftovers and without LO we lost a lot of power
2 weakness to rocks, so is pretty meh set up with 75% of health and no recovery way (GF pls give drain punch to this thing)
3 with 3 moves is pretty hard sweep after only a bulk up.
4 weakness to priority, this thing has no defense, even an assault vest set is shit.

Set explanation:


The set is pretty easy, and is inspired to greninja (greninjorus) because 3 special attacks and 1 physical attack. Of course greninja is better. This is a sortsupport/lure, and should be used with mega sableye or a random fight mon.

Things like unaware clefable (but almost same for magic guard) or sylveon are able to check thundurus all day long, even the nasty plot version. Same for latias with 72 HP in evs. This set can 2kho all this pokemon. If the opponent's fairy is dead, sableye can set up calm mind and rekt everything. Keldeo and latios can 2kho sableye after a cm, thundurus can deal with both of this pokemon. Also they are very synergic for hazard control: sableye is anantispinner with the ghost typing and can bounce opponent's hazards, thundurus gets a +2 boost with defiant if the opponent use defog.

Same happens using thundurus with a fight mon: he can kill landorus and gliscor, with hp ice, destroy slowbro and azumarill.
I know that is not so original, but this things already has 2 awesome set.

Calcs:

Hide

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 234-278 (59.3 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 205-242 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 224-265 (70.2 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also thanks to everyone that vote my dragonite (or InsaNite) in the last round, and thanks to firehusky for this thread.

We're not exactly looking for low tier threats, we're looking for undiscovered yet viable and creative sets on a certain pokemon. It doesn't really matter which pokemon, I just thought that thundurus would be cool because it has an interesting movepool.
This set seems pretty creative, sludge wave takes care of fairies that like to check thundurus.
Will add it to the list:

SketchUp's Taunt Switch Thundurus
TheInsanity's Sludge Wave Lure Thundurus

 

[BONGMASTER420]

Thundurus (M) @ LifeOrb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fly
- Wild Charge/Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off/Superpower

Introducing physical Thundurus :] A physical Thundurus set may seem weird but it's actually pretty good. You want Fly because at +1 you get the guaranteed 2HKO on defensive Mega Venusaur, who is usually a counter. Bulk Up is there to boost your attack to net some 2HKO's but also to help check Talonflame and bird spam because it raises your defense. Now the last 2 slots are up to you. If you run Fly/Bulk Up/Wild Charge/Superpower then you are beaten 1v1 by Latios and Latias. If you forgo Wild Charge you are beaten by Bulky DD Gyarados. This set works really well against special Thundurus' checks and counters suck as spdef Heatran, M Venu, and bulky spdef walls.

 

[AM]

Heal Block Thundurus

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Heal Block
- Thunder Wave

Ok so when I showed this to some friends they asked why would I use Heal Block > Taunt like they always do because I tend to use a lot of lures that nobody bothers to look into. The premise behind Heal Block is to mitigate recovery entirely. Heal Block stops Leftovers recovery, the recovery from Toxic damage by Poison Heal users such as Gliscor and Breloom, the recovery from Drain Punch and Giga Drain, think Conkeldurr and M-Sceptile with the former a common switch in on non HP Flying variants, any sort of recovery moves which is what Defensive builds rely upon. The added benefit of Heal Block is that it lasts 5 turns as opposed to Taunts 3 turns which will force opponents to endure the offense behind Thundurus and its teammates or forced to switch due to its longer lasting effects. Thunder Wave is on the set to slow down offense but theoretically you can run a full stall-breaker set with Taunt / Heal Block and even the Volt switch variant and leftovers to gain both stall-breaking utility and momentum with that pivoting tool if necessary. But yeah something to try out and if anything think about in regards to looking at whatever is available to you.

 

[firehusky]

Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fly
- Wild Charge/Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off/Superpower

Introducing physical Thundurus :] A physical Thundurus set may seem weird but it's actually pretty good. You want Fly because at +1 you get the guaranteed 2HKO on defensive Mega Venusaur, who is usually a counter. Bulk Up is there to boost your attack to net some 2HKO's but also to help check Talonflame and bird spam because it raises your defense. Now the last 2 slots are up to you. If you run Fly/Bulk Up/Wild Charge/Superpower then you are beaten 1v1 by Latios and Latias. If you forgo Wild Charge you are beaten by Bulky DD Gyarados. This set works really well against special Thundurus' checks and counters suck as spdef Heatran, M Venu, and bulky spdef walls.

Physical thundurus seems pretty nice, but what about life orb over leftovers? Gives you more damage output, and thundurus is frail anyways, so it won't be taking a hit anyways.

Heal Block Thundurus

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Heal Block
- Thunder Wave

Ok so when I showed this to some friends they asked why would I use Heal Block > Taunt like they always do because I tend to use a lot of lures that nobody bothers to look into. The premise behind Heal Block is to mitigate recovery entirely. Heal Block stops Leftovers recovery, the recovery from Toxic damage by Poison Heal users such as Gliscor and Breloom, the recovery from Drain Punch and Giga Drain, think Conkeldurr and M-Sceptile with the former a common switch in on non HP Flying variants, any sort of recovery moves which is what Defensive builds rely upon. The added benefit of Heal Block is that it lasts 5 turns as opposed to Taunts 3 turns which will force opponents to endure the offense behind Thundurus and its teammates or forced to switch due to its longer lasting effects. Thunder Wave is on the set to slow down offense but theoretically you can run a full stall-breaker set with Taunt / Heal Block and even the Volt switch variant and leftovers to gain both stall-breaking utility and momentum with that pivoting tool if necessary. But yeah something to try out and if anything think about in regards to looking at whatever is available to you.

Seems pretty interesting because it allows you to beat lots of stall mons that rely on recovery, like clefable etc. This set seems really original and creative, I like it :]

Right now we have:
SketchUp's Taunt Switch Thundurus
TheInsanity's Sludge Wave Lure Thundurus
BONGMASTER420's Physical Thundurus
AM's Heal Block Thundurus

 

[Jukain]

Most of what Thundurus can used is already pretty explored/in the analysis, but there's one set I thought might be worth posting.

Thundurus @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunder Wave
- Rain Dance

The purpose of this set is to serve as an extra form of support for rain teams in the case that Politoed goes down, they don't want to risk Politoed, or whatever. This set can save games for rain teams where another round of rain is just what's needed for the Swift Swim users to break the opposing team; that is basically the premise of this set. Thunder Wave provides a secondary form of Speed control in addition to Swift Swim users that can be helpful in slowing down raging sweepers when you don't want to waste other Pokemon in order to deal with them. Altogether this set is a rather effective support for rain teams that is worthy of note.

 

[firehusky]

Most of what Thundurus can used is already pretty explored/in the analysis, but there's one set I thought might be worth posting.

Thundurus @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunder Wave
- Rain Dance

The purpose of this set is to serve as an extra form of support for rain teams in the case that Politoed goes down, they don't want to risk Politoed, or whatever. This set can save games for rain teams where another round of rain is just what's needed for the Swift Swim users to break the opposing team; that is basically the premise of this set. Thunder Wave provides a secondary form of Speed control in addition to Swift Swim users that can be helpful in slowing down raging sweepers when you don't want to waste other Pokemon in order to deal with them. Altogether this set is a rather effective support for rain teams that is worthy of note.

Thanks jukain for the set :]
I've actually used the idea of this set before on tornadus, and it's pretty effective.

SketchUp's Taunt Switch Thundurus
TheInsanity's Sludge Wave Lure Thundurus
BONGMASTER420's Physical Thundurus
AM's Heal Block Thundurus
Jukain's Rain Dance support Thundurus

 

[Karxrida]

Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fly
- Wild Charge/Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off/Superpower

Introducing physical Thundurus :] A physical Thundurus set may seem weird but it's actually pretty good. You want Fly because at +1 you get the guaranteed 2HKO on defensive Mega Venusaur, who is usually a counter. Bulk Up is there to boost your attack to net some 2HKO's but also to help check Talonflame and bird spam because it raises your defense. Now the last 2 slots are up to you. If you run Fly/Bulk Up/Wild Charge/Superpower then you are beaten 1v1 by Latios and Latias. If you forgo Wild Charge you are beaten by Bulky DD Gyarados. This set works really well against special Thundurus' checks and counters suck as spdef Heatran, M Venu, and bulky spdef walls.

It's kinda hard to 2HKO Venusaur when you give it free turns to switch out to a check; you should be running Power Herb if you want to use this as a Venu lure (and even then LO HP Flying is probably better).

 

[BONGMASTER420]

Physical thundurus seems pretty nice, but what about life orb over leftovers? Gives you more damage output, and thundurus is frail anyways, so it won't be taking a hit anyways.

Seems pretty interesting because it allows you to beat lots of stall mons that rely on recovery, like clefable etc. This set seems really original and creative, I like it :]

Right now we have:
SketchUp's Taunt Switch Thundurus
TheInsanity's Sludge Wave Lure Thundurus
BONGMASTER420's Physical Thundurus
AM's Heal Block Thundurus

I support the change to Life Orb :]