Stall in ORAS UU

[SketchUp]

Stall in ORAS UU
approved by kokoloko

ORAS gave UU many new toys to play with, but unfortunately they weren't all
very nice to stall. How is stall doing in the current UU tier and to what extent is it still viable?

Changes:
New Mega's
ORAS gave UU 15 new mega's, 4 of which already left the tier. Which could be the saviors for stall, mega Slowbro and Mega, Sableye, left before people enjoyed it and that left UU without any new mega's for stall, outside of Mega Audino.

New Moves
Fortunately, stall also got some new toys. Some pokemon you will find often on stall teams got new moves like Drain Punch Chesnaught, Pain Split Trevenant and Synthesis Florges.

New Threats
At the end of XY UU, there were some tier shifts and two of the best stallbreakers, Heracross and Mew, left UU. In exchange UU got M-Alakazam, Zygarde and many new mega's like M-Gallade, Dragalge and M-Lopunny who all threaten stall. Again, ORAS haven't been very nice towards stall.

Common things on stall:
Hazards stacking
With one very good spike setter in Chesnaught, a good spinner in Tentacruel and many good Stealth Rock setters like Hippowdon, Blissey and Celebi. The most used defoggers in UU: Empoleon, Crobat and Flygon, aren't really big threats to stall so stall often has little problems setting their hazards

Getting rid of threats
Stall got many new enemies that threaten them like Zygarde, Mega Gallade and Mega Alakazam. Which stall pokémon are pretty much necessary on stall teams to not get annihilated by the big stall and wallbreakers?

Win conditions
M-Sableye and M-Slowbro, one of the best Win Conditions stall got, are already in OU so UU have to find new win conditions. The feared CroCune is very good at the moment and Zygarde also fits on certain stall builds. What are other good win conditions to play with?

What pokémon are common on stall teams?
What pokémon are huge threats for stall teams?
How succesful are stall teams at the moment?

​

 

[DiscoDucky]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall-teams-in-uu.3501150/

We already have one.

But anyway, stall is relatively hard to build around in the current meta. SubEncore Lop just takes a steaming dump on almost everything on stall teams. If anything, PinkCore components are predicted to rise back into moderate popularity. Things like granbull have resurged in popularity to check FightSpam. Furthermore, according to Meowiekins , Shedinja stall is a thing now just as long as you're not stupid and accidentally let Shedinja die.

 

[SketchUp]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall-teams-in-uu.3501150/

We already have one.

But anyway, stall is relatively hard to build around in the current meta. SubEncore Lop just takes a steaming dump on almost everything on stall teams. If anything, PinkCore components are predicted to rise back into moderate popularity. Things like granbull have resurged in popularity to check FightSpam. Furthermore, according to Meowiekins , Shedinja stall is a thing now just as long as you're not stupid and accidentally let Shedinja die.

Topic was approved by kokoloko

Fighting types are everywhere indeed and Granbull is indeed one of the nice checks to many fighting types. With all those fighting types, I also saw a rise in popularity of Fletchinder, Crobat and Noivern but it was not really a big problem when building stall teams. Mega Lopunny was also not a big problem for the physical walls which resist the High Jump Kick like Celebi, Cresselia, Tentacruel and Chesnaught (the latter doesn't resist HJK, but has a good chance of winning against M-Lopunny)
Mega Gallade, on the other hand, was a bigger problem. I encountered the SD + Skill Swap + 2 Attacks set a few times and because of skill swap it can get rid of annoying abilities like Unaware, Magic Bounce and Guts.
Many stall pokemon that work pretty good in OU, also work pretty good on UU stall: Cresselia, Jirachi, Hippowdon, Blissey, Celebi, Chesnaught and Tentacruel all have been doing well in some stall teams I am currently working on

 

[Jellied Eels]

imo the problem with stall at the moment is that you're kinda forced to run separate checks to Mega Lop and Mega Gallade as very very few things beat both w/o being setup fodder to at least one set (Granbull comes close but +1 Zen Headbutt does 60% min to max/max Granbull so you really can't afford to get worn down + Play Rough only has like a 12% chance to ohko Mega Gallade) so it gets really hard to cover all of your bases.

Another thing I've kinda struggled with is the lack of spinblockers with Sableye gone. Jellicent, Cofagrigus and to an extent Spiritomb are possible replacements - and Sheddy apparently wtf - but they all have notable flaws (Jelli is not a good fire check so you're forced to stack weaknesses ; Cofagrigus takes entirely too much from Knock Off and offers no utility ; Spiritomb is just a disappointing mon overall with a few redeeming qualities mainly beating all Gallade sets and a reasonably strong Pursuit). Also nothing spinblocks Mega Blastoise (not like Sableye won against the good set anyway but...)

UU has always been home to a lot of bulky boosters but it's gotten worse as of late with Crocune, SubCoil Zygarde, SubCM Rachi/Cresselia, CM Florges and whatnot running around. It's gotten virtually impossible to get a win con of your own that guarantees the win late game vs all of these (Reuni sucks on stall sadly) so that I really don't know how you can manage w/o PSong Celebi tbh. Ziggy is a godsend though


also I wish to god ppl would stop running LO Kyurem that shit is impossible to deal with when you're hard pressed for team slots already and it's everywhere when you give stall a whirl these days

 

[SketchUp]

Spiritomb actually surprised me. I used it because my team had problems with Zygarde and Zygarde just gets destroyed by this thing. It's also Mega Gallade's biggest nightmare if it lacks Knock Off and even then, Spiritomb can burn it and makes M-Gallade a little less threatening. It also acts as a spinblocker

The set I've been using

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play

Calcs with Zygarde

Hide

+1 0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0- Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 130-154 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

DD Zygarde is a bigger issue
If it DD's on the switch in
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 239-282 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If it Outrages on the switch in
252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 160-188 (52.6 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can take on SubCoil Zygarde easily and DD Zygarde can be beaten as long as it is not max attack adamant with life orb and uses Outrages on the switch

Calcs with Mega Gallade

Hide

252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 87-103 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 97.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 173-204 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If Spiritomb already lost its item, Knock Off won't do as much damage
+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 116-137 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Spiritomb can then Foul Play or burn it
+2 0- Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 387-456 (139.2 - 164%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 195-229 (70.1 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It can take other physical hits pretty well too

Hide

252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb in Rain: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 175-207 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 76-90 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Spiritomb: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 116-140 (46 - 55.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO (60-71% if M-Zam runs 31 Atk IVs)

 

[KaiseraAeros]

I can`t give a good take on the playstyle since I basically never play full Stall although I do enjoy playing a bit of Semi-Stall once in a while.
What I have noticed is that Stall as a whole has declined but a lot of Stall Mons are becoing popular on Balanced Teams(Granbull and Cresselia being the biggest examples)
as a way to check the Fighting Megas a Few Big Stall threats I used and a Insight on it

Mixed LO Kyurem:This is thing puts basically arguably as much or even more pressure as SD Haxorus on Stall because unlike SD Haxorus which you have a Rest Talk Granbull which can avoid it self being worn down via ResTalk very viably and its not hard to fit on Stall Teams most Kyurem Checks either don`t have Recovery or they don`t fit on stall as Easily.But it does have a Nasty SR Weaknesses and LO Recoil means its going to get worn down fast especialy if it mispredicts
Major Checks/Counters:Cresselia,Brozong,Florges
Calm MindReuniclus:The more "classic" of the CM Stallbreakers in UU and one of the most effective and simple to use thanks to its ability to avoid being Worn Down by Residual Dmg while having the Bulk to take most of Stalls Direct Hits while being able to basically Plow Through everything after it acomulates a high Amount of Boosts which is not hard vrs a passive Playstyle
Major Checks/Counters:Taunt Users that can win in 1v1 in a last mon Scenario,Phazers can Delay his Sweep be careful to not simply brainless phaze him wihtout a Plan otherwise you are just delaying your doom


SD Haxorus: Basically the n1 reason why Granbull became a common stall staple because otherwhise SD Haxorus pretty much will either kill the rest of your team or it will Heavily Dent it.Requires a good Judgement from the User since all of Haxorus Moves can be abused(Outrage locks you in and forces you out via Confusion,EQ and Poison Jab have Immunities)
Major Checks/Counters: ResTalk Granbull,Counter Forretress

 

[YABO]

imo the problem with stall at the moment is that you're kinda forced to run separate checks to Mega Lop and Mega Gallade as very very few things beat both w/o being setup fodder to at least one set (Granbull comes close but +1 Zen Headbutt does 60% min to max/max Granbull so you really can't afford to get worn down + Play Rough only has like a 12% chance to ohko Mega Gallade) so it gets really hard to cover all of your bases.

Another thing I've kinda struggled with is the lack of spinblockers with Sableye gone. Jellicent, Cofagrigus and to an extent Spiritomb are possible replacements - and Sheddy apparently wtf - but they all have notable flaws (Jelli is not a good fire check so you're forced to stack weaknesses ; Cofagrigus takes entirely too much from Knock Off and offers no utility ; Spiritomb is just a disappointing mon overall with a few redeeming qualities mainly beating all Gallade sets and a reasonably strong Pursuit). Also nothing spinblocks Mega Blastoise (not like Sableye won against the good set anyway but...)

UU has always been home to a lot of bulky boosters but it's gotten worse as of late with Crocune, SubCoil Zygarde, SubCM Rachi/Cresselia, CM Florges and whatnot running around. It's gotten virtually impossible to get a win con of your own that guarantees the win late game vs all of these (Reuni sucks on stall sadly) so that I really don't know how you can manage w/o PSong Celebi tbh. Ziggy is a godsend though


also I wish to god ppl would stop running LO Kyurem that shit is impossible to deal with when you're hard pressed for team slots already and it's everywhere when you give stall a whirl these days

The funny thing is that Shedinja actually fulfills a lot of the criteria you're listing here. While it certainly doesn't spin block vs mega stoise, it blocks vs Starmie 100/100 times. In addition, every one of those set up mons listed loses to Shedinja. Mega Lop also loses unless it's packing toxic. Gallade can get soft checked because it really doesn't enjoy eating 2 Shadow Sneaks if it's running Knock Off.

Of course these benefits come with obvious downfalls such as death to hazards and residual which really sucks but with proper team support (Mega Aggron, Bulky Xatu) you can check common switch ins and keep residual users from wearing you down.

I've been running a stall Shedinja team for the past couple days and am currently 25-5 or something like that and Bob the Bro has been using one that got him to #10. It's an interesting 'mon for stall that can just straight counter a lot of threats to stall as it stands currently. Just watch out for mold breaker though. :]

 

[Skankovich]

I pretty much only play stall so imma dump a lot of the decent sets I've found recently.

Hide

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

This mon is soooo good right now. Water/Psychic is a great physically defensive type, so despite its only-ok physical bulk it deals with a lot of threats in the meta like Infernape, Lopunny, Mienshao (ish, doesn't appreciate a knock off but it absorbs the hit with regenerator), Jirachi, Aerodactyl, Cloyster, Entei, Darm... not all of these are flawlessly countered, but it stands up to all of them, can stomach a hit and recover it off through regen without having to be stuck in the turn after having beaten them. Not only that, it acts as a solid wincon as long as its not surprised by a Toxic, and it can even set up on a Scarfdreigon that switches in on Calm Mind due to its great base special bulk. It also shits on pretty much every other defensive calm minder out there since MegaEye left, alleviating a lot of the pressure the likes of Suicune put on stall while also applying a lot on the other team.
It's pretty much never deadweight and I can't recommend this mon enough :>

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp

Ngl, I haven't actually got around to using this one much since I just threw together a team with it last night, but it seems pretty solid in the current meta. It's really physically bulky, has a good phys def type and a lovely supportive movepool with WoW and Leech Seed.
Unfortunately it has a high chance to die to +2 Mega Gallade's knock off after rocks, but I can still see this putting in work.

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock/Rest/Toxic

I know I know, mega aggron gets curse and shit but Steelix pulls it off so much better. After a single boost Gyro ball becomes ridiculously powerful, 1hkoing even bulky offensive mons like Shaymin and Hydreigon after rocks, and even frail resists like darmanitan, and it becomes basically untouchable on the physical side. People really underestimate its secondary ground type, as it hits almost every threat to its steel weaknesses on the special side in UU- special fires find it difficult to switch in, the only special grounds in the form of the nidos are weak to ground, the only common special fighting type in Lucario also can't switch in. Furthermore, it takes like 25% less from neutral and resisted special attacks than Aggron due to its greater bulk, but it takes a decent bit more from SE moves because no filter.

The big, big issue is bulky waters hit it supereffectively, and it doesn't do the same back and scald is a nightmare for it, thus the suggestion of Toxic in that last slot (haven't actually tried it but it seems like it would be useful so far). It's not amazing, but the extra offensive presence and the ability to completely cockblock electrics makes it a good situtational choice over Aggron. If only it got a more helpful ability ;-;

Also CM Florges is great, and burn support+quagsire is pretty fun too 8)

 

[DiscoDucky]

Idk if it gets heavy slam but imo gyro ball is bad on megalix simply because of th low pp gb has. He'll video if heavy slam has a significant amt of l.p. to sustain a curse set

 

[Skankovich]

Idk, Gyro Ball isn't particularly spammable anyway so the pp isn't often an issue, and it's not really like Suicune in that it stays in, boosts to oblivion and sweeps, but more that when it gets an opening it gets a single boost and blows holes. Still, MegaLix is so heavy that Heavy Slam could certainly still be used. For reference, it weighs almost twice as much as Mega Aggron, so it hits at >100bp on basically everything in the tier besides Hippo and Aggron itself.

Although after some more use tbh its not that good just because bulky waters are everywhere and it really cant do much to them. Gourgeist meanwhile is actually great, so many mons are just useless in front of it, its bulk is insane and it wears down its checks quickly with leech seed + WoW + hazards, especially since a lot of them like flying and fire are weak to rocks.

 

[Deluks917]

This was huagkitten and me's first attempt at UU stall and it did ok in some mus. But overall it was not that strong. The most serious pokemon I had trouble walling were

Nidoking/Nidoqueen (these two are very hard to wall)
SD Sceptile
Mega Zam (have to guess if it has psyshock or physic to bring in either Aromatisse or Blissey)

But more seriously the team had alot of problems going long vs teams with hazards. The team can spin block forretress but if you try forre can set spikes. Overall the lack of spikes was a serious issue. I am not sure I recommend gligar very seriously either as the weakness to knock off is pretty lame.

UU Stall

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Def / 236 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 36 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Knock Off
- Scald

Gligar (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake

Aromatisse (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic
- Moonblast

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

This was huagkitten and me's first attempt at UU stall and it did ok in some mus. But overall it was not that strong. The most serious pokemon I had trouble walling were

Nidoking/Nidoqueen (these two are very hard to wall)
SD Sceptile
Mega Zam (have to guess if it has psyshock or physic to bring in either Aromatisse or Blissey)

But more seriously the team had alot of problems going long vs teams with hazards. The team can spin block forretress but if you try forre can set spikes. Overall the lack of spikes was a serious issue. I am not sure I recommend gligar very seriously either as the weakness to knock off is pretty lame.

UU Stall

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Def / 236 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 36 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Knock Off
- Scald

Gligar (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake

Aromatisse (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic
- Moonblast

UU Stall

Why not at least run Curse Quagsire (or even Crocune over Quag if you so wish) to serve as a win condition for your team? I think for any kind of successful Stall team in any tier, you need a win condition, some bulky Pokemon to set up uninterrupted once the opposing team's checks to it have been worn down/killed. And this tier's got plenty of 'em: Crocune, Curselax, CM Reuniclus, CM Cresselia, SubCoil Zygarde, Curse Mega Aggron, even CM Slowking if you're real enough can work on it. I think overall that's the biggest thing is having something to clean up and put pressure on the opposing team once hazards/status has taken its toll.

 

[SketchUp]

Galladite ban was huge for stall because it was arguably the hardest thing to wall.
Bronzong is probably the best counter for M-Sceptile. It walls special sets and physical sets can't hit it with earthquake. It's also a good answer to non-Fire Blast Nido and it has great use as a stealth rock setter, trick room setter and it can hit some pokemon surprisingly hard with Gyro Ball or Earthquake

 

[Patrick1088]

I think full stall is pretty tough IMO. The two biggest threats (imo) to stall are CroCune (CM, Rest + 2 attacks are big headaches) and Zygarde. They are hard to take down and even harder to check.

I ran semi-stall for my DH for the month and it did really well (peaked 1550+)and it consisted of Physically Defensive Cofagrigus (M Lop/Gallade Spam), Sp Def Gligar (Hazards, Defog, fantastic special check to Mega Zam/Ampharos) and Cleric Umbreon. Cofagrigus laid down T-Spikes, burns and just being a pain in the butt. Sp Def Gligar had several roles, but 252/252+ special bulk with eviolite is pretty impressive, letting it check most special attackers (even LO Nidoking's Ice Beam wasn't a guaranteed OHKO). But, semi-stall needs something to really check the offensive threats, which were just mentioned. I found Curse Quagsire and SD Mega Scept to be a big boon, as well. Curse let it beat out other physical boosters (not named Haxorus) and allowed it to check Rachi spamming Iron Head. SD Mega Scept with Leaf Blade, Earthquake and D-Claw cleaned up very nicely.

But, with that being said, I think there are several mons that are really detrimental to stall in addition to CroCune and Ziggy. #1 offender imo is Mega Beedrill. It has to be one of the strongest mons to ever grace UU, imo. Poison/Bug/Dark or Ground coverage coupled with Adaptability and that 150/145 attacking sets is very impressive. Once you started climbing the ladder (post Lop/Gal stone ban), Mega Beedrill was everywhere. Priority can definitely help, but there are few mons that can literally switch in safely. I think Mega Beedrill was a sleeper mon in the beginning of ORAS UU, but is going to be a terror now, which will force HO as the more viable style to check these faster, frailer mons.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I think full stall is pretty tough IMO. The two biggest threats (imo) to stall are CroCune (CM, Rest + 2 attacks are big headaches) and Zygarde. They are hard to take down and even harder to check.

I ran semi-stall for my DH for the month and it did really well (peaked 1550+)and it consisted of Physically Defensive Cofagrigus (M Lop/Gallade Spam), Sp Def Gligar (Hazards, Defog, fantastic special check to Mega Zam/Ampharos) and Cleric Umbreon. Cofagrigus laid down T-Spikes, burns and just being a pain in the butt. Sp Def Gligar had several roles, but 252/252+ special bulk with eviolite is pretty impressive, letting it check most special attackers (even LO Nidoking's Ice Beam wasn't a guaranteed OHKO). But, semi-stall needs something to really check the offensive threats, which were just mentioned. I found Curse Quagsire and SD Mega Scept to be a big boon, as well. Curse let it beat out other physical boosters (not named Haxorus) and allowed it to check Rachi spamming Iron Head. SD Mega Scept with Leaf Blade, Earthquake and D-Claw cleaned up very nicely.

But, with that being said, I think there are several mons that are really detrimental to stall in addition to CroCune and Ziggy. #1 offender imo is Mega Beedrill. It has to be one of the strongest mons to ever grace UU, imo. Poison/Bug/Dark or Ground coverage coupled with Adaptability and that 150/145 attacking sets is very impressive. Once you started climbing the ladder (post Lop/Gal stone ban), Mega Beedrill was everywhere. Priority can definitely help, but there are few mons that can literally switch in safely. I think Mega Beedrill was a sleeper mon in the beginning of ORAS UU, but is going to be a terror now, which will force HO as the more viable style to check these faster, frailer mons.

imo Stall is pretty easy to build in ORAS after the Galladite and Lopunnite bans. Meanwhile, I've found that Skuntank is actually pretty integral to UU stall at the moment. It can reliably take focus blasts and dazzles when you invest max HP / max SpDef. Personally, I run Pursuit as its attacking move to trap megazams. It also functions as a great defogger for a team in need of one.

 

[Patrick1088]

imo Stall is pretty easy to build in ORAS after the Galladite and Lopunnite bans. Meanwhile, I've found that Skuntank is actually pretty integral to UU stall at the moment. It can reliably take focus blasts and dazzles when you invest max HP / max SpDef. Personally, I run Pursuit as its attacking move to trap megazams. It also functions as a great defogger for a team in need of one.

Skunktank? I havent seen one of those on the ladder at all tbh. Do you have any replays showing its viability? T spikes absorber and defogger is cool, coupled with pursuit is nice as well. Poison/Dark is good typing too.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Skunktank? I havent seen one of those on the ladder at all tbh. Do you have any replays showing its viability? T spikes absorber and defogger is cool, coupled with pursuit is nice as well. Poison/Dark is good typing too.

not many replays but I've used it a lot in the sporadic UU tournaments that pop up on the channel. The beauty of Skuntank is that I almost never send it out unless there is a significant Psychic type I need dead via pursuit trapping or hazard removal.

 

[Saria]

I've been playing around with stall for a bit, with good amount of success on the ladder and against well known players (I haven't lost once with my main stall taem outside of the ladder :]). The playstyle is fairly solid, but there are so many threats in the UU tier (Suicune, Reuniclus, Mix Hydreigon, Zygarde, etc) that is basically impossible to consistently win with a team of 6 defensive Pokemon with no offensive presence.

What I've done is try to not run anything that does nothing but take hits until it dies (Except Alomomola because shit is so good right now. But I usually spam Knock Off to ruin stuff switching into it, so there's that). Doing this allows me to pressure my opponent even when I'm playing defensively, which greatly reduces the chances of giving away free setup turns / switch ins.

Obviously I also run hazards to help me out. All Defog users are extremely easy to wear down when running "offensive" stall, including Crobat, and Rocks / Spikes have much more PP than Defog anyway. Trying to spinblock anything that isn't Forretress (or Donphan with Gourgeist), usually is a bad idea because UU has so many good spinners, but they can also be worn down relatively easily. Starmie probably is the most troublesome spinner because of Recover, but even defensive sets are relatively frail and don't enjoy switching into decently strong offensive moves.

Personally I prefer running a spinner, usually with Wish support, over any defogger for hazards removal. I hate setting up full hazards to then being forced to get rid of them to avoid getting killed by X threat.

Lastly I believe every stall teams in the current metagame needs a "win condition". Something that's capable of breaking through the opposite team after wearing it down. This gives you a way of winning that doesn't consist of waiting for the opponent to die to residual damage, and also helps against teams that rely on stuff like last mon Crocune to break stall (because you can setup before they do). Examples of this would be Pokemon such as CM Florgres, Curse Lax, SD Doublade (underrated threat), SD / NP / CM Celebi (one of the three), CM Blissey (I started using this as a gimmick and it surprised me how effective it was).

Just my two cents.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I would like to advise Spiritomb users to check out Curse sets with Rest and cleric support and WoW+infiltrator. Beats most last Pokemon if you can get a Curse in which is pretty easy since no slow booster can ko you at +1. Reuniclus and Sigi are immune sadly but sometimes you can beat them if they can't hurt you or you get lucky with Dark Pulse Crits and flinch on Reuniclus.

 

[Questro]

Am I the only one having trouble with NP offensive Celebi? It's got amazing coverage in UU, so many setup opportunities against almost all stall Pokes, and all the pokes that could beat it if they switch in risk dying if they do switch in (Crobat for example risks getting Psychiced) and all the things that can wall it can't kill it fast enough (Blissey/insert fairy). Even if you try to status it, it can always switch and find another, possibly even better opportunity to setup later in the game when your team has been worn down.

I even see some Uturn celebis over earth power to beat opposing celebis who try to stop it with Perish Song...i mean it just plays like a UU analouge of Manaphy in OU.

Am i just overestimating how good this thing is vs stall? What are some counters?

 

[DiscoDucky]

Am I the only one having trouble with NP offensive Celebi? It's got amazing coverage in UU, so many setup opportunities against almost all stall Pokes, and all the pokes that could beat it if they switch in risk dying if they do switch in (Crobat for example risks getting Psychiced) and all the things that can wall it can't kill it fast enough (Blissey/insert fairy). Even if you try to status it, it can always switch and find another, possibly even better opportunity to setup later in the game when your team has been worn down.

I even see some Uturn celebis over earth power to beat opposing celebis who try to stop it with Perish Song...i mean it just plays like a UU analouge of Manaphy in OU.

Am i just overestimating how good this thing is vs stall? What are some counters?

Curselax works wonders.

 

[Questro]

Curselax works wonders.

Sadly, NastBi 3HKO'es Standard Lax after SR, while Crunch also only 3HKO'es in return. This means, Celebi Nasty Plots on the switch, then uses Psychic, Snorlax Crunches, Celebi Psychics, Snorlax Crunches, then Celebi finishes it off with another Psychic.

+2 252 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 175-207 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 124-148 (36.3 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I guess you could run max Sp.Def Snorlax? I don't know how optimal that is but seems reasonable. AV Snorlax works 100% of the time, but leaves stall teams without a win con and you are a little more dependent on Wish recovery if you need Lax to last throughout the match.

I guess I'm forced to use Toxic + Seismic Toss Blissey, but is there anything else (especially since I play on PO where Blissey is actually...well OU)?

 

[DiscoDucky]

Sorry for double post, but I have to distinguish some concepts.

With a metagame pretty centralized around Suicune and Zygarde, one of the best ways to run full stall is Hazards + 4 phazers. It makes sure nothing like SubCM Cress or Suicune wrecks stall and completely kills offensive momentum. In a way, Roar is basically what Volt-Turn is to Offensive teams. Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail force random Pokemon out and allows for not only passive damage rack-up, but as well as screw up offensive momentum, especially CelePass Shark and TogePass teams that have been spiking in popularity as of late.

Also, this kind of stall team single-handedly beats Meowiekins' Shedinja Stall, so make sure you try this.

tl;dr Stall isn't dead. You all are just lazy and impatient. This stall team build will guarantee you Free-elo.

 

[pokemonisfun]

To be honest I would have to guess there are multiple Pokemon even the best stall teams have about a 10% chance or less of beating.

For instance looking at this random stall team I encountered and lost 2/3 on the ladder to (with two boosters and a magic bouncer........) so its clearly not a bad stall team because I am a pretty amazing player.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-198163838

(or you can search "oh no oh no" on the replay on showdown)

How on earth could this otherwise quite nice stall team beat for instance NP PZ + CB Duggy and something to force Blissey out? When PZ shows up he will destroy until Blissey comes in which will either get trapped and die or get trapped and lose half her health and be unable to wall NP PZ after hazard switch in. There are no "if ands or buts" about it in this case, especially since I know that Spiritomb is not able to do much to PZ because, as I have said before, I played this team multiple times. An even better example in my opinion is just NP Luke which steamrolls right through this team even if its not extremely common. Or CM Sigilyph with Air Slash and Roost?

So there are quite a few threats that destroy this team with little chance involved. Does that make stall bad or unusable?

No!

Stall just has to live with this just like any other style. It is only obvious against stall teams because we use slow Pokemon that tend to get brutally OHKOd if hit with the right move (Lucario CC on Blissey for example). We think to ourselves this just shows we have no chance. And it is true we do have no chance against some threats. But overall if we cover most threats very well we can be happy accepting what I estimate is at least a good fighting chance against 90% of viable teams.

How is that 90% any different that the 90% chance you rely on for Play Rough Belly Drum Slurpuff to sweep? To the game it is just a probability, this game to me is always about probability and I always do my best to "see the future" and try to pick the move that gives me the highest chance of winning.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-197869617

Take this case for example. I knew I was going to have a hard time from turn one. Honestly if my opponent played accurately he might have had a 100% chance to win after the first few turns because I was just down so much material. However I noticed if Fletchinder could get a free turn I could win. I knew that I couldn't set up on any member though so that was that, I should have lost. I noticed they sent out Cincinno which can't reliably hit Fletchinder though so that was my chance and I took it. Pure chance!

This chance is no different than the chance stall teams take when playing other teams. Other teams might get destroyed by Trick Room if they rely on fast attackers and Choice users so those fast Choice teams will have to try to hope to avoid TR just like stall has to try and avoid NP Lucario.

Obviously the best thing for stall to do is get as much coverage as possible to keep on whittling down on the amount of Pokemon that can beat it; for instance you can use Whimsicott over Celebi and still beat Zygarde and Suicune and also now beat Hydreigon (or at least do decent against it). In that oversimplified scenario you get one extra Pokemon to beat and that make increase your chance of winning an average battle by 1% for instance. But then you have to consider with Celebi gone now you no longer have SR and that causes you to decrease your winning chance by lets say 30%. We have to keep on juggling these tiny little aspects to increase the net wining average!

I really hope you do not discount stall because every stall team will lose almost invariably to a certain few Pokemon. Sure that sucks but overall in the big picture you can still get a similar winning average to faster paced teams because they too have their own problems.