UU Simple Questions Thread

[Tom the Bomb]

Im thinking of trying Tick room with MegaRupt

MegaRupt
Sheer Force
248 HP/8 Atk/252 Sp Atk
Quiet Nature
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Grass
-Explosion (sp walls expecting a pure sp atk set)

Moveset good? Potential Partners (TR setters like reuniclus, slowking came to mind and abusers like Escavalier, etc..)?

Over HP grass i would consider Will-o-Wisp for all the things you won't be smacking with your STABs (such as Aerodactyl) and most things will be hit harder by a STAB Earth Power anyway (besides pert).

One good teammate would be Trick Room Celebi. With Healing Wish / Baton Pass it won't be an issue getting Camerupt inside and smacking shit. It also has great defensive synergy with it and could potentially give it a Nasty Plot depending on what moves you are running.

 

[Patrick1088]

Over HP grass i would consider Will-o-Wisp for all the things you won't be smacking with your STABs (such as Aerodactyl) and most things will be hit harder by a STAB Earth Power anyway (besides pert).

One good teammate would be Trick Room Celebi. With Healing Wish / Baton Pass it won't be an issue getting Camerupt inside and smacking shit. It also has great defensive synergy with it and could potentially give it a Nasty Plot depending on what moves you are running.

Celebi is really interesting. What moveset would you recommend? Base 100 speed is alittle akward for TR

 

[LeoLancaster]

Celebi is really interesting. What moveset would you recommend? Base 100 speed is alittle akward for TR

I do not know what Orbital's opinion is, but theoretically Iron Ball Celebi could work well. Iron ball might seem gimmicky at first but it's basically a Scarf with no drawback under TR.

 

[Tom the Bomb]

Patrick1088 I'm assuming you're running a team that isn't fully reliant on TR but works a lot better if it has it. What I mean by this is not every member needs Trick Room to function properly. In fact, most Trick Room teams run a choice scarf user to clean up late game.
Anyway, the Celebi set depends on what you want. I ran this combination a little bit in OU, and it worked well.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Bold Nature
- Trick Room
- Substitute / Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
- Giga Drain / Healing Wish

This is designed to bring Camerupt in under Trick Room unharmed, so you want it to be slow under Trick Room. I've actually run this with no attacking moves, and it worked out better than expected. Healing Wish support is nice since this gives Camerupt a chance to switch in safely as well as give it two chances to poop on the opposing team. I'm not sure how well this set does in UU, but I used it to great success in OU.

You may want to switch the Defense EVs to Special Defense but it's really up to you. I prefer Sub over NP because Camerupt is already powerful on its own and Subpass is really nice for it. Also, this Celebi is slower than most offensive threats anyway, so if you need it to get a fast Sub or Giga Drain off it's not difficult.

 

[BenzMafia]

Celebi is not meant to abuse the TR. It is bulky enough to set it up and bring a teammate safely via baton pass or after a healing wish immediately wasting any turns so it's speed should not be issue. Also if you really want to use hidden power on Camerupt-M try ice to hit Hydreigon which is better imo.

 

[astroshagger]

What do you guys think will be the best ability for the standard CroCune set?

(assuming water absorb is ever released)

 

[Saria]

What do you guys think will be the best ability for the standard CroCune set?

(assuming water absorb is ever released)

Crocune is better off running Pressure, because it helps with PP stall and doesn't really mind Scald burns. But more offensive Suicune versions will definitely appreciate Water Absorb.

 

[RyanKoopa]

I for one hope that Water Absorb Suicune never comes to be. End-game Crocune vs Crocune fights are tedious enough already, could you imagine them when you have no way of damaging the opponent beyond struggle? It'd be a nightmare.

 

[boltsandbombers]

I for one hope that Water Absorb Suicune never comes to be. End-game Crocune vs Crocune fights are tedious enough already, could you imagine them when you have no way of damaging the opponent beyond struggle? It'd be a nightmare.

Certainly not something I want to imagine. On a similar note, if such a thing were to be released then Volt Absorb Raikou would most likely be released as well, which would certainly increase its ability as a pivot.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I have a legitimate question.

look at this game http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-193836904

but not all of it! because you will be in the new year by the time you are done (I (Pokemonisfun) won fyi because I am really good at Pokemon).

Is there a rule against constantly switching out to save PP when there are no hazards. You can see in that game actually constantly switching back and forth was basically the best play for both of us. He blinked first though because I am a really good player. There is no "pass" in Pokemon like in many other games but switching out is very close to a pass. Does this violate some endless battle clause rule? What would /you/ do if switching out back and forth was the best play?

Also do you think this was ethical or moral of me?

 

[kokoloko]

hey pif glad you came back for spl,

missed your signup post tho.


:(

(answer's maybe)

 

[Patrick1088]

I have a legitimate question.

look at this game http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-193836904

but not all of it! because you will be in the new year by the time you are done (I (Pokemonisfun) won fyi because I am really good at Pokemon).

Is there a rule against constantly switching out to save PP when there are no hazards. You can see in that game actually constantly switching back and forth was basically the best play for both of us. He blinked first though because I am a really good player. There is no "pass" in Pokemon like in many other games but switching out is very close to a pass. Does this violate some endless battle clause rule? What would /you/ do if switching out back and forth was the best play?

Also do you think this was ethical or moral of me?

Next time i babysit my niece and she wont go to bed, im just going to show her this video...

But, PP stall was morr prevalent in Gen II, where it was common to get into a struggle battle. But, a win is a win no matter how you cut it. But, PPStall is definitely a thing when some of the most powerful moves are only 8pp.

Also, why no pursuit on Spiritomb? That wouldve ended the game a lot quicker.

Oh and Sleepy thr Vaporeon definitely sums up this match lol

 

[GOthee]

Is weezing viable in this tier? He has quite a bit of use in RU. Any experience with him here?

 

[Patrick1088]

Is weezing viable in this tier? He has quite a bit of use in RU. Any experience with him here?

Weezing is a pretty good physical wall, which is able to counter Mega Beedrill pretty decently

252 Atk Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 75-89 (22.4 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

That's the strongest move it can dish out against Weezing. Weezing can WoW, use Flamethrower, etc back.

Other mons include Adamant LO Lucario, Mega Aero, Check to Mega Absol (assuming no mixed sets and doesn't get the +2 boost), etc..

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 157-186 (47 - 55.6%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 118-139 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- 81.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 112-133 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- 30.4% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Weezing most certainly does have a place in UU atm, but keep in mind of the top 3 threats in UU can easily set up and/or outright KO Weezing:

Mega Alakazam
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 230-272 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
^still really impressive IMO, but if they run Psychic, you're just gone...
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 542-638 (162.2 - 191%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zygarde
Resists Poison/Fire coverage and can set up a Sub and just boost away to its heart's content (biggest liability IMO since this can literally cost you the game). But, if you run into DD Set with Lum Berry and WoW 2x, you have a chance to survive the +1 Outrage and WoW again, but that is again assuming it's not the SubCoil set

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Suicune
Doesn't care about Poison/Fire coverage, being statused and can set up effortlessly on Weezing. At +1, Weezing will be scrambling to do anything...

+1 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 160-189 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

So, overall, Weezing is a good choice for UU, but you need to keep in mind the top threats in UU also threaten Weezing, so you need to add mons to cover them specifically. It's tough because Mega Zam is a wallbreaker and Ziggy/Cune are wincons. If you want a mon that can do a decent job at checking all 3, you can try CB Infiltrator Spiritomb, believe it or not. I ran it for DH and it's completely underestimated. It beats/traps Mega Zam whether behind a sub or not. Zygarde can be burned/tricked a band (really helpful if it's SubCoil since dragon/ground spam isn't great by themselves) and Suicune does not want a Band at all.

That's just my personal preference for those 3 mons since it can check all 3 with relative ease.

 

[astroshagger]

Certainly not something I want to imagine. On a similar note, if such a thing were to be released then Volt Absorb Raikou would most likely be released as well, which would certainly increase its ability as a pivot.

So then what's your opinion on CroCune? Pressure or WA?

 

[DiscoDucky]

So then what's your opinion on CroCune? Pressure or WA?

Water absorb isn't legal so pressure is the only option.

 

[GOthee]

Weezing is a pretty good physical wall, which is able to counter Mega Beedrill pretty decently

252 Atk Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 75-89 (22.4 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

That's the strongest move it can dish out against Weezing. Weezing can WoW, use Flamethrower, etc back.

Other mons include Adamant LO Lucario, Mega Aero, Check to Mega Absol (assuming no mixed sets and doesn't get the +2 boost), etc..

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 157-186 (47 - 55.6%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 118-139 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- 81.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 112-133 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- 30.4% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Weezing most certainly does have a place in UU atm, but keep in mind of the top 3 threats in UU can easily set up and/or outright KO Weezing:

Mega Alakazam
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 230-272 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
^still really impressive IMO, but if they run Psychic, you're just gone...
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 542-638 (162.2 - 191%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zygarde
Resists Poison/Fire coverage and can set up a Sub and just boost away to its heart's content (biggest liability IMO since this can literally cost you the game). But, if you run into DD Set with Lum Berry and WoW 2x, you have a chance to survive the +1 Outrage and WoW again, but that is again assuming it's not the SubCoil set

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Suicune
Doesn't care about Poison/Fire coverage, being statused and can set up effortlessly on Weezing. At +1, Weezing will be scrambling to do anything...

+1 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 160-189 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

So, overall, Weezing is a good choice for UU, but you need to keep in mind the top threats in UU also threaten Weezing, so you need to add mons to cover them specifically. It's tough because Mega Zam is a wallbreaker and Ziggy/Cune are wincons. If you want a mon that can do a decent job at checking all 3, you can try CB Infiltrator Spiritomb, believe it or not. I ran it for DH and it's completely underestimated. It beats/traps Mega Zam whether behind a sub or not. Zygarde can be burned/tricked a band (really helpful if it's SubCoil since dragon/ground spam isn't great by themselves) and Suicune does not want a Band at all.

That's just my personal preference for those 3 mons since it can check all 3 with relative ease.

Ill Choose Spiritimomb over Weezing because i dont want to dedicate a whole team to him, i dotn want those threats setting up in Weezing , just too risky.

 

[So Dynamic]

serious question, can we just ban knock off?

 

[boltsandbombers]

serious question, can we just ban knock off?

Serious answer: no.

 

[walterlt]

Hi! I see this is a very big thread and I have not been able to check all posts...well, I was wondering, why are Weavile and Venomoth banned in UU while other pokes amply better (well, at least in my opinion) not? I have in mind: Jirachi, Lucario, Machamp, Rotom-Heat, Suicune, Swampert, Vaporeon, Starmie. What do they do that the smogon council dislike so much?

 

[Ununhexium]

Weavile has great Attack and Speed stats, Swords Dance, and decent STAB options including STAB Knock Off, making it a terrifying sweeper / cleaner. Venomoth is banned because of Quiver Dance + Baton Pass, allowing it to turn any special attacker into an absolutely monster (especially Nidoqueen, as good power + good coverage moves + good bulk + a Quiver Dance or two = absolute death)

 

[walterlt]

Weavile has great Attack and Speed stats, Swords Dance, and decent STAB options including STAB Knock Off, making it a terrifying sweeper / cleaner. Venomoth is banned because of Quiver Dance + Baton Pass, allowing it to turn any special attacker into an absolutely monster (especially Nidoqueen, as good power + good coverage moves + good bulk + a Quiver Dance or two = absolute death)

Well...those are its pros...I understand that baton pass shenanigans could be very complicate to deal with (thus I'd rather say the real problem is baton pass and not venomoth, who otherwise sucks...) but weavile has quite important downsides which, well, again, in my humble opinion, hinder him from being a thread higher than rotom, swampert or suicune: First, sucky defenses (70-65-85). Second, again, even worse than his poor defensive stats, his typing...Dark (U-turn and Mach Punch hit him in the face) then Ice (Stealth Rock, Mach Punch-again-, and Bullet Punch).

 

[HT]

Hi! I see this is a very big thread and I have not been able to check all posts...well, I was wondering, why are Weavile and Venomoth banned in UU while other pokes amply better (well, at least in my opinion) not? I have in mind: Jirachi, Lucario, Machamp, Rotom-Heat, Suicune, Swampert, Vaporeon, Starmie. What do they do that the smogon council dislike so much?

Here's the thread where the voting has been made: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-uu-tiering-system-voting-records.3520708/
Reasoning for ban and no ban votes are pretty clear cut, you can read each council member's reasoning for why they voted for what by clicking their tab under the mon you're curious about.

 

[walterlt]

Here's the thread where the voting has been made: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-uu-tiering-system-voting-records.3520708/
Reasoning for ban and no ban votes are pretty clear cut, you can read each council member's reasoning for why they voted for what by clicking their tab under the mon you're curious about.

thx!, I have read their opinions...and well, I found out that many of those who voted for BL had to recognize his downsides and argue that the main reason was that he constrains team building...again, that's why I don't quite like that decision, because I myself have had to deal with pokes that do the same to my team building (rotom) but are still there, defining their respective tiers...well, anyway, I can't help thinking that smogon sometimes shows certain tendencies which are a little idiosyncratic...

 

[Questro]

I didnt play during early XY UU so I dont know a lot about it but why was drought banned? Was drizzle already banned so people resorted to Sun offense?