Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Sergeant Spooky]

Drop Seismitoad to to C-

After mega Mudkipz came out no one really runs double toeds teams because the small niche Seismitoad actually had with being immune to Thund n mega Man kinda went away now everyone be running Kingdra now for special swiftswimmer. Plus why would you use this with mega Swampert what is synergy, Rotom-W(and mantine) says hi.
Seriously tho Mantine should be D if Jellicent is too

"Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

Seismitoad is deadweight outside of rain also requires rain and still faces competition with stuff like Kingdra and Swampert even random stuff like Sceptile(not a bad rain mega) seriously tho this might even deserve D rank. Have to admit tho that it can hit Chesnaught which is helpful for rain mon. Plus stall kinda got revived now 85 spA is trash and a lot of stall mons can just come in and live hits.


Edit: Can someone tell me why Hax R Us Haxorus is C-? How is it not outclassed by any other random OU dragon?

Awhile ago I was thinking the same thing. Not in ORAS, but in XY its niche of checking electrics and providing stealth rock didn't really justify using it over other swift swimmers, who were better in every other area. I was really thinking it should be unlisted, like yeah it has a niche but no serious rain teams I've seen ever use it.

However, I changed my mind because someone brought up a Water Absorb set, which is really annoying for Rain teams, and unlike Gastrodon it provides Stealth Rock. I forget what else it does but it's not a pokemon that only functions as a mediocre Swift Swimmer.

 

[AM]

Drop Seismitoad to to C-

After mega Mudkipz came out no one really runs double toeds teams because the small niche Seismitoad actually had with being immune to Thund n mega Man kinda went away now everyone be running Kingdra now for special swiftswimmer. Plus why would you use this with mega Swampert what is synergy, Rotom-W(and mantine) says hi.
Seriously tho Mantine should be D if Jellicent is too

"Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

Seismitoad is deadweight outside of rain also requires rain and still faces competition with stuff like Kingdra and Swampert even random stuff like Sceptile(not a bad rain mega) seriously tho this might even deserve D rank. Have to admit tho that it can hit Chesnaught which is helpful for rain mon. Plus stall kinda got revived now 85 spA is trash and a lot of stall mons can just come in and live hits.


Edit: Can someone tell me why Hax R Us Haxorus is C-? How is it not outclassed by any other random OU dragon?

Seismitoad doesn't have to be used on Rain though. It can be a decent SR setter with utility in Knock Off + Toxic and slowing down Rain Offense and Choice Item Keldeos just to name a couple of traits. It definitely does have merits to see legitimate use in correlation to its current ranking and slowing down Rain Offense is one of the best things it can do with its Water Absorb set.

Edit: Sort of ninja'd

 

[thegrovylekid]

just because you used a mon 7-9 months ago, it doesnt mean it has the same viability as it does now. alomomola is now one of the few mons thats able to handle greninja in ORAS, and its gained a slight niche in that. amolo's not that bad of a mon, and is hella good on stall thanks to knock off, regen, and huge wishes. and yeah, its passive as hell, but so are most stall mons, like skarm and chansey. Keep Alo in B-

What about after Greninja leaves OU?

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

What about after Greninja leaves OU?

We'll deal with it then. The Suspect Test Discussion forum is not the most accurate display of the expected outcome of a suspect test so there's no guarantee that Greninja will even be banned. If it's banned, we can reevaluate the rankings of its checks and counters, but in the meantime we should view rankings under the assumption that Greninja will stay just like we did with Mega Salamence.

 

[Analytic]

Mega Sharpedo=B+(At least)

I'm surprised I didn't see Mega Sharpedo in the viability rankings, this Mon has got a great ability in Speed Boost-->Tough Jaws and a pretty good move coverage as well as a very high Base Attack Stat.Defo should be included for B+ or better still an A-

 

[Punchshroom]

Mega Sharpedo=B+(At least)

I'm surprised I didn't see Mega Sharpedo in the viability rankings, this Mon has got a great ability in Speed Boost-->Tough Jaws and a pretty good move coverage as well as a very high Base Attack Stat.Defo should be included for B+ or better still an A-

The problem with Mega Sharpedo is that once it activates its Tough Jaws, it's losing Speed Boost for good; if it is ever forced out after Mega Evolving, it is stuck with neutral base 105 Speed, which doesn't outspeed very much at all (Jolly Garchomp and Timid Lando-I can outspeed Mega Shark). This means that against offensive teams, Mega Shark must hold off on its Mega Evolution for as long as possible until it is sure it can sweep the opponent's team from there; in the meantime, unboosted Sharpedo is pretty damn weak and does not contribute at all early-game, or even mid-game. Even as a win condition it has its problems, namely priority in Brave Bird, Thunder Wave, and especially Mach Punch all tearing through it, and it relies badly on OHKOing opponents to sweep foes like Greninja does, only Mega Sharpedo has only 3 moveslots (one of which must be for Crunch) and not all of its moves are boosted.

At least Mega Sharpedo can get straight to Mega Evolving against slower teams, but even they have solid stops such as Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, and Clefable.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Mega Sharpedo=B+(At least)

I'm surprised I didn't see Mega Sharpedo in the viability rankings, this Mon has got a great ability in Speed Boost-->Tough Jaws and a pretty good move coverage as well as a very high Base Attack Stat.Defo should be included for B+ or better still an A-

Mega Sharpedo is in B-. I'm not opposed to pushing it to B since it is a pretty darn effective cleaner, but is quite frail and mostly, though not completely overshadowed by Mega Gyarados. So yeah, Megashark to B. It should go no higher due to the problems that Punchshroom has listed before me.

 

[kiloments]

I honestly don't think Alomomola should drop or raise. It's fine where it is. It main niche is passing massive wishes and tanking certain hits, which it does well. It also checks Latis in a pinch which is always welcome. I helped a guy with his team and suggested Alomomola with AV Raikou and Sash Gengar and that alone put in work against so much teams. Being able to essentially raise a mon from the dead is really nice. With that being said, it is quite passive (understatement, ik), but it sheer fatness sorta forces players to contemplate where to even begin beating it. Regen also makes killing it difficult. Scald is, however, complete ass and it's more like a "something to do" kind of move. Getting a burn on ferro is nice I guess.

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

The problem with Mega Sharpedo is that once it activates its Tough Jaws, it's losing Speed Boost for good; if it is ever forced out after Mega Evolving, it is stuck with neutral base 105 Speed, which doesn't outspeed very much at all (Jolly Garchomp and Timid Lando-I can outspeed Mega Shark). This means that against offensive teams, Mega Shark must hold off on its Mega Evolution for as long as possible until it is sure it can sweep the opponent's team from there; in the meantime, unboosted Sharpedo is pretty damn weak and does not contribute at all early-game, or even mid-game. Even as a win condition it has its problems, namely priority in Brave Bird, Thunder Wave, and especially Mach Punch all tearing through it, and it relies badly on OHKOing opponents to sweep foes like Greninja does, only Mega Sharpedo has only 3 moveslots (one of which must be for Crunch) and not all of its moves are boosted.

At least Mega Sharpedo can get straight to Mega Evolving against slower teams, but even they have solid stops such as Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, and Clefable.

I dont understand, you say the main problem this late game cleaner has against offensive teams, is he needs to be a late game cleaner?

The problem I have with people arguing against sharpedo is I know for a fact they havent used him as much as I have. I have used sharpedo in probably 200+ (semi high ladder)games and he has literally been killed by brave bird from talonflame once, never prankster twaved, and mach punch has admittedly been his main problem. I mean talonflame is so easily prepared for, I myself used bulky rocky helmet chomp which basically just kills talonflame after 2 hits and he can get rocks up. I dont want to get into how easy it is to handle the FEW things that threaten him late game, but if you expect to just throw sharpedo out there and sweep without setting it up, then you are just using him wrong and frankly you just dont understand the metagame. I mean I dont see how it is any different than something like rock polish metagross, an S rank threat btw, thundurus can still prankster twave, he is weak to sucker punch, he gets walled by a few things since he also only gets 3 moves, like the similarities are astounding. But yeah a late game cleaner should not be marked down because he cant just sweep everything after one speed boost, otherwise he would just fly straight to ubers, he does his job as a late game cleaner perfectly and I would argue he is one of, if not the best cleaner in the game.

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 144-169 (39.5 - 46.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 214-254 (54.3 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
"solid stops"

also Punchshroom most of this post wasnt directed at you, just used your post to rant a bit so please discount any snarkiness :)

 

[Machi]

I mean I dont see how it is any different than something like rock polish metagross, an S rank threat btw, thundurus can still prankster twave, he is weak to sucker punch, he gets walled by a few things since he also only gets 3 moves, like the similarities are astounding. But yeah a late game cleaner should not be marked down because he cant just sweep everything after one speed boost, otherwise he would just fly straight to ubers, he does his job as a late game cleaner perfectly and I would argue he is one of, if not the best cleaner in the game.

The main difference between Sharpedo and Metagross, as well as Mega Gyara that it is often compared to, is that they have more freedom to come in and out giving them more opportunity to be brought in when they feel like it. They don't need to set up at the very moment they come in it is at times simply enough just to threaten something out and mega-evolve then proceed to switch out, or if they feel like it attack straight on to damage the switch in. Which sadly Sharpedo can't do so since he'd lose speed boost.

This puts a lot less pressure on your team building and playing altogether since you aren't as pressured to have perfect conditions set up, i.e. Lando-T dead, MVenus or what not below a certain health, etc. I mean it isn't really a matter of being frail, because taking hits isn't the role of Sharpedo anyway, after all you have Mega Beedrill above Sharpedo, which can also late game sweep and requires support but clearly is less work than Sharpedo and can contribute more easily even when conditions aren't aligned.

I understand it is a late game sweeper but it is so defined under that niche it has difficulty competing for a team slot, even more so a mega slot, against other choices that can also sweep late game but is afforded more freedom. This I feel is the strongest point brought up by Punchshroom, that has been mentioned in the past.

 

[Punchshroom]

The appeal to Mega Sharpedo is that it is a lategame cleaner that can do work on slower, bulkier teams, which makes Mega Shark good against both offense and defense. The problem is that for Mega Sharpedo to clean offensive teams, it needs to sit back for more or less the entire match, because jumping into the match too early either means that Shark won't be able to finish the game anymore (by Mega Evolving too early), or it throws out weak unboosted attacks and leave itself wide open to a whole variety of threats. Not to mention it is incredibly fragile, so it won't contribute offensively or defensively for the team anytime soon and only emphasizes the need to OHKO targets, without additional boosts to boot. Other late-game finishers such as Talonflame, Mega Metagross, Mega Gyarados, Mega Gallade, Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria, XZard, even possibly things like Mega Absol, etc... do not face these issues, if not nearly as much.

Don't get me wrong, Mega Shark can indeed be a competent late-game cleaner, but considering the sheer amount of competition it has, especially for the Mega Slot, means that it can't be rated too highly. Especially when its only real power move is Crunch and its unboosted coverage moves only hits those Dark resists for so much, so it needs plenty more extensive help than other late-game cleaners to finish the job.

 

[Srn]

I think its important to note that while the crunch calcs look impressive, you're still losing speed boost, which means that if you want to use your mon to weaken your counters early game, you're sacrificing all the late-game potential you had otherwise.
I mean lets be real itemless sharpedo is a weak fuck and will not properly weaken its own checks, the same cannot be said of mega gyarados or mega metagross, which both have solid bulk and decent offensive presence off the bat to weaken their own checks and still be somewhat healthy to sweep late-game (and if you think you're not healing wish is still an option, which it isn't for sharpedo).
EDIT: kinda ninja'd by Punchshroom

Its performance as a late-game cleaner itself is very good, as it does not need to take a hit to set up, it can just protect and do its thing. However, in return for not needing to take a hit, which makes sharpedo itself good, the support it requires from not getting an attack boost drastically increases as opposed to sweeping with something like mgyara, which is very strong with an attack boost. You can't say the same of sharp; it needs everything worn down a lot more then other cleaners do, which increases the need for competition again.

The way sharpedo late-game cleans is also kind of a drawback because you need to get rid of scarfers; unless you get a double protect i'm pretty sure a competent opponent using offense will not be giving mega sharpedo enough free turns to get speed boosts to outpace the scarfer they have in the back, where as other sweepers can set up another dragon dance through sheer bulk. Mega sharpedo will 90% of the time be only grabbing 1 speed boost against offense, and a hoard of scarfers like jolly lando-t, latios, kyu-b, terrak, keldeo, (sand rush exca) etc etc can easily revenge and outspeed you. so even against decent offense AND wearing shit down i can't gaurantee a sweep completely :[

Then you factor in that it has zero defensive presence and is gone in the face of any strong attack, even neutral. Sure, its not sharp's job to take hits, but if you're not even gonna contribute to your own damn sweep that's the least i expect :S Needless to say, i can't vouch for mega sharpedo being on the level of rhyperior, scizor, suicune, or quagsire in terms of usefulness, its more along the lines of conk :S Sharpedo for B-

(On a separate note, not being prankster t-waved isn't worthy of much note b/c 1) this is ladder, ppl don't know how to preserve checks lol 2) thundurus is getting quite rare.)

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

The appeal to Mega Sharpedo is that it is a lategame cleaner that can do work on slower, bulkier teams, which makes Mega Shark good against both offense and defense. The problem is that for Mega Sharpedo to clean offensive teams, it needs to sit back for more or less the entire match, because jumping into the match too early either means that Shark won't be able to finish the game anymore (by Mega Evolving too early), or it throws out weak unboosted attacks and leave itself wide open to a whole variety of threats. Not to mention it is incredibly fragile, so it won't contribute offensively or defensively for the team anytime soon and only emphasizes the need to OHKO targets, without additional boosts to boot. Other late-game finishers such as Talonflame, Mega Metagross, Mega Gyarados, Mega Gallade, Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria, XZard, even possibly things like Mega Absol, etc... do not face these issues, if not nearly as much.

Don't get me wrong, Mega Shark can indeed be a competent late-game cleaner, but considering the sheer amount of competition it has, especially for the Mega Slot, means that it can't be rated too highly. Especially when its only real power move is Crunch and its unboosted coverage moves only hits those Dark resists for so much, so it needs plenty more extensive help than other late-game cleaners to finish the job.

Yeah that is a good point, and I agree with it. I just think that even with this negative trait B+ is a fair rank for him I mean the closest thing he is being compared to are A+ and S rank threats, he just does not belong in B- or even B. and Srn sharpedo doesnt need an attack boost, he already hits as hard as mega gyarados at +1(with crunch). I mean I know mega gyara can setup better against things like balance and stall, but against stall sharpedo doesnt need to set up, and yeah gyarados has the advantage over balance teams, but honestly in most cases I would rather have sharpedo against stall and offense because setting up a dd can be scary, whereas protect is much safer, and gyarados does do well against stall with things like sub and taunt, but sharpedo doesnt need to play around with stall he can just 2hko damn near everything.

I mean I agree with your guys assessment of his weaknesses but think you are underselling his strengths. I would place him in B+ for his ability to adapt to the playstyle he is playing, but I dont factor in opportunity cost too heavily in this case because I have used both gyarados mega and sharpedo and they are just not comparable, in the sense that gyrados does not directly outclasses sharpedo. And I also think his defense is being undersold, I have been on a sweep and taken things like bandnite espeed, amoongus giga drain, he resists common priority in aqua jet and sucker punch, Idk I have alot of experience with him and if I seem bias thats because I have had a lot of success with him and he pulls me out of sticky situations plenty of times, sure he may require a bit more skill to use but I dont think that should count against him too much, so yeah B+ seems about right, B is underselling him but w/e Id accept it and B- is just a joke.

 

[Sniperos]

Jolteon Unranked ====> C+/B-
So now when we are at C and B stuff can someone explain me why this thing isn't even ranked? It has 14th higtest speed in the game (if you don't count Ubers it's actually 10th), some really nice offences and a lot of supportive moves. I know M- Manectric outclases it in some ways but Jolteon hits harder and saves your mega slot. Here's some interesting calcs that could cost you the game:

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 324-384 (97.8 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 364-432 (109.9 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 312-368 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 354-416 (98.8 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 270-318 (90.9 - 107%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 304-359 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 362-428 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 408-484 (103.5 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 362-428 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 408-484 (103.5 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192 SpD Gliscor: 272-324 (77.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192 SpD Gliscor: 307-364 (87.2 - 103.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Also M- Manectric can take some serious damage in turn 1 before getting it's speed boosted :
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 187-222 (66.5 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 196-231 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bad things about Jolteon:
-Really frail
-Limited moveset
-His abilities are situational

I know that M- Manectric still has better ability, offensive moves, and bulk (doesn't really matter for a sweeper) but that's just C+ or B-.

 

[Kurona]

Jolteon Unranked ====> C+/B-
So now when we are at C and B stuff can someone explain me why this thing isn't even ranked?

Because for one thing we can only discuss the Pokémon currently in those ranks, not Pokémon from C, C-, D or Unranked that we want to go there.
Second off, Jolteon is completely outclassed by Raikou. Recreant gave a good article on it in the Don't Use That Use This thread.

 

[heritage]

Jolteon Unranked ====> C+/B-
So now when we are at C and B stuff can someone explain me why this thing isn't even ranked? It has 14th higtest speed in the game (if you don't count Ubers it's actually 10th), some really nice offences and a lot of supportive moves. I know M- Manectric outclases it in some ways but Jolteon hits harder and saves your mega slot. Here's some interesting calcs that could cost you the game:

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 324-384 (97.8 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 364-432 (109.9 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 312-368 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 354-416 (98.8 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 270-318 (90.9 - 107%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 304-359 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 362-428 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 408-484 (103.5 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 362-428 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 408-484 (103.5 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192 SpD Gliscor: 272-324 (77.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192 SpD Gliscor: 307-364 (87.2 - 103.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Also M- Manectric can take some serious damage in turn 1 before getting it's speed boosted :
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 187-222 (66.5 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 196-231 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bad things about Jolteon:
-Really frail
-Limited moveset
-His abilities are situational

I know that M- Manectric still has better ability, offensive moves, and bulk (doesn't really matter for a sweeper) but that's just C+ or B-.

Hey alexwolf can we blacklist Jolteon please? There's really no reason that it should be on the rankings at all, and it's super outclassed. I'm tired of seeing people mention it for a ranking. Sorry if this was a bad request, but I'm tired of it.

 

[blinkie]

However, I changed my mind because someone brought up a Water Absorb set, which is really annoying for Rain teams, and unlike Gastrodon it provides Stealth Rock. I forget what else it does but it's not a pokemon that only functions as a mediocre Swift Swimmer.

However unlike Gastrodon it does not have access to reliable recovery in Recover, and also slightly worse stats(Gastrodon has higher HP, spDef, and only slightly lower defense which is remedied by scald). Specs Keldeo and Keldeo in general took a hit this gen, and this is compounded by the fact that walling Kabutops by virtue of typing is not as significant anymore. The main thing it has over Gastrodon is SR and Knock Off, but now you run into 4MSS because you need SR for sure, Scald is probably a must-have, but running both Knock Off and Toxic leaves you open to mons like SubCMKeldeo and Sub MegaDos. It also faces new competition with mons like Chesnaught and even Rotom-W. For some reason people run random mons that counter this as well cause some rain team with Toxic Orb Breloom is everywhere on ladder.

 

[astroboy]

However unlike Gastrodon it does not have access to reliable recovery in Recover, and also slightly worse stats(Gastrodon has higher HP, spDef, and only slightly lower defense which is remedied by scald). Specs Keldeo and Keldeo in general took a hit this gen, and this is compounded by the fact that walling Kabutops by virtue of typing is not as significant anymore. The main thing it has over Gastrodon is SR and Knock Off, but now you run into 4MSS because you need SR for sure, Scald is probably a must-have, but running both Knock Off and Toxic leaves you open to mons like SubCMKeldeo and Sub MegaDos. It also faces new competition with mons like Chesnaught and even Rotom-W. For some reason people run random mons that counter this as well cause some rain team with Toxic Orb Breloom is everywhere on ladder.

sorry im on mobile
but, gastrodon is also weak to all those things you mentioned?
they both are supporting mons that serve as rain checks, but gastro has reliable recovery and seismitoad has rocks and knock off. but another thing that seismitoad has is the potential to go with swift swim, whereas gastro is stuck as a defensive, and pretty passive mon that relies on status to do damage. actually, what do you think about gastro for c? it honestly has a lot more threats to handle this gen, like new megas like sceptile. the return of breloom (especially toxic orb) and celebi isnt doing it any favors either. imo its passive and outclassed in almost every way by something else, and not as good as stuff like cobalion or goodra in the current meta.

 

[Magcargo]

B- Rank ==> B Rank
Weavile is pretty anti-meta at the moment. It checks 4/5 of the Pokemon in S-Rank and several Pokemon in A-rank such as Mega Sceptile and Gliscor. It sits at a pretty amazing speed tier, outspeeding important threats such as Greninja and Latios and it has Ice Shard to revenge kill faster threats such as Choice Scarf Landorus-T and Mega Sceptile. Weavile also has great neutral coverage with Icicle Crash, Knock off, and Low Kick. It does have some important shortcomings, such as a Stealth Rock weakness, Poor defensive typing and defenses, and inability to break through threats like Mega Scizor and Keldeo, but I think its pros are enough to warrant it a spot in B-Rank.

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

Id also like to throw conkeldurr out there to move up to B, I dont fully understand why it is so low. I mean it handles so much, it takes on pesky steels like heatran and ferro, can bop bulky things on the switch with knock off and then has ice punch that can destroy the genies, and dragons. I mean conkeldurr is damn near useless against stall but against HO I feel like he is always getting at least 1 kill and against balance he can cripple their cores pretty effectively. But yeah I am not too concerned with him moving up but I feel like B is more suitable.

 

[alexwolf]

Hey alexwolf can we blacklist Jolteon please? There's really no reason that it should be on the rankings at all, and it's super outclassed. I'm tired of seeing people mention it for a ranking. Sorry if this was a bad request, but I'm tired of it.

Done.

 

[alexwolf]

Hey alexwolf can we blacklist Jolteon please? There's really no reason that it should be on the rankings at all, and it's super outclassed. I'm tired of seeing people mention it for a ranking. Sorry if this was a bad request, but I'm tired of it.

Done.

 

[Kurona]

Also, now we're at C+...
alexwolf , I posted about this before, and it's extremely nitpicky but the Cobalion sprite is the gen 5 one.

here's the gen 6 one

 

[Alfalfa]

Id also like to throw conkeldurr out there to move up to B, I dont fully understand why it is so low. I mean it handles so much, it takes on pesky steels like heatran and ferro, can bop bulky things on the switch with knock off and then has ice punch that can destroy the genies, and dragons. I mean conkeldurr is damn near useless against stall but against HO I feel like he is always getting at least 1 kill and against balance he can cripple their cores pretty effectively. But yeah I am not too concerned with him moving up but I feel like B is more suitable.

I always feel like Conkeldurr is trying to do too much. It is okay, but it really is not that amazing either. I do not care about its placement either, but I feel that nobody is really going to let Conk do these things except from using Knock Off and luring in Lando-T with Ice Punch. While Mega Saur declining in usage is good for it, Conk still really is not that strong, and I do not think making it rise is currently warranted in this metagame. Feel free to disagree and rebuke me though.

 

[kiryuin]

there has to be someone who can make mega audino viable... right? :[

 

[firehusky]

there has to be someone who can make mega audino viable... right? :[

No, as a wish passer, mega audino is outclassed by stuff like alomomola and chansey, while as a CM user, it is outclassed by magic guard CM clefable. It's ability is also pretty much useless.