Problem is that Greninja 2HKOs with Hydro Pump, which is still reasonably common, and outspeeds unless rain is active, in which case Swampert is taking as much as 86% from Hydro Pump. Check, yes, but not a counter.Since nobody is posting sets anymore, I'll nominate again then (not because I'm greedy but because I really hate Greninja)
Name: Swampert
Status: Counter
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 104 HP / 248 Atk / 4 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Rain Dance / Superpower
Mega Swampert avoids the 2HKO from any of Greninja's moves, outspeeds Greninja and OHKO it with STAB Earthquake . Waterfall is a reliable STAB move that also gets boosted by the rain and is Mega Pert's strongest option against neutral targets. Ice Punch is used to hit Dragons such as Mega Sceptile, Lati@s and Dragonite. Finally, Rain Dance can be used in the last slot so that Mega Pert can replenish it's own rain to reduce the pressure on Politoed to come in too often. Alternatively, Superpower can be used to heavily damage Ferrothorn which is a pain for Rain teams to deal with otherwise.
Calculations:
212 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 104 HP / 4 SpD Mega Swampert: 144-172 (39.2 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 130-153 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
244+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (non-Water type) Greninja in Rain: 331-391 (116.1 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 276-325 (96.8 - 114%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Project Victim of the Week
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
Week 37:
Thanks for the Greninja checks and counters, this week, the LAST 2014 Victim, we'll do Mega Gyarados! Also, grats to boltsandbombers for making it into the archive!
Thanks for the Greninja checks and counters, this week, the LAST 2014 Victim, we'll do Mega Gyarados! Also, grats to boltsandbombers for making it into the archive!
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
Name: Chesnaught
Status: Counter
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Spiky Shield
+6 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
First, if you let M-Gyarados get to +6 you deserve to lose. Second, this is just to showcase that Chesnaught is pretty much the universal counter to this set. Drain Punch is STAB that hits M-Gyarados super effectively, Leech Seed capitalizes on recovery when it's not behind a Sub, Spikes is just a traditional move on it for team role purposes, and Spiky Shield allows it a buffer for Leftover recovery while accumulating damage when a physical contact move is used.
Status: Counter
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Spiky Shield
+6 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
First, if you let M-Gyarados get to +6 you deserve to lose. Second, this is just to showcase that Chesnaught is pretty much the universal counter to this set. Drain Punch is STAB that hits M-Gyarados super effectively, Leech Seed capitalizes on recovery when it's not behind a Sub, Spikes is just a traditional move on it for team role purposes, and Spiky Shield allows it a buffer for Leftover recovery while accumulating damage when a physical contact move is used.
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Also, if you run Mega Swampert, chances are you are gonna run a Rain team so Rain should up up for most of the game.The choice between Dark Pulse, Grass Knot, and Extrasensory really limits how effective your check or counter is. To combat this a bit, I'll say that counters don't have to be able to switch in on every single move in one slot. For example, if I slash Dragon Claw before Outrage on Mega Charizard-X, Quagsire is still able to be nominated as a counter, despite losing to Outrage. It however is a shakier counter, in this instance.
Week 36
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
- Dark Pulse / Extrasensory
Remember - a counter doesn't have to be able to take an Extrasensory and a Dark Pulse, it just has to be able to take one of them (preferably Dark Pulse, since it's used more often). It also doesn't have to be able to take non-slashed moves (HP Grass, HP Fire, Grass Knot, Hydro Pump, etc).
Anyway, reserving Azumarill as a counter .
Name : Azumarill
Status: Counter
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
Azumarill doesn't care about anything Mega Gyarados does and can OHKO in return with STAB Play Rough. Belly Drum + Aqua Jet is a tool used to clean up weakened teams while Waterfall is there to KO bulky Steels such as Skarmory and Mega Scizor.
Calculations:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 98-116 (26.9 - 31.8%) -- 56.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Gyarados chooses to not Mega Evolve, it is still OHKOed by Play Rough after Stealth Rock:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 217-256 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Question Aragorn the King are we assuming Mega Gyara is already Mega Evolved? Not that it matters a whole lot, but the typing change can throw off some counters and checks. It's reasonable to assume Gyara may stay in it's non-Mega and viable form to take advantage of different resists.
Check:
Keldeo @ Choice Specs / Expert Belt
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Electric
Keldeo's typing makes it a great natural answer to Mega Gyarados. It resists both of Gyarados' STABs and can hit it back super effectively. Choice Specs gives it a great deal of immediate power to wallbreak in general, and allows it to break Mega Gyarados easily. Specs Secret Sword always OHKOs Mega Gyarados, and 3HKOs regular Gyarados if it chooses to stay unevolved. Gyarados can beat the Specs set if it stays unevolved and DDs on the switch. Keldeo and non-Mega Gyara both 3HKO each other and Keldeo is faster.
However, an Expert Belt set can fix this. If you think they are going to stick in out in their Water / Flying form, EBelt HP Electric is pretty much a guaranteed KO from full health. EBelt Secret Sword is also close to a guaranteed KO. It requires some prediction and bluffing, but it also potentially eliminates to only losing situation.
Keldeo also loses to hax from Waterfall or Crunch.
Check:
Keldeo @ Choice Specs / Expert Belt
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Electric
Keldeo's typing makes it a great natural answer to Mega Gyarados. It resists both of Gyarados' STABs and can hit it back super effectively. Choice Specs gives it a great deal of immediate power to wallbreak in general, and allows it to break Mega Gyarados easily. Specs Secret Sword always OHKOs Mega Gyarados, and 3HKOs regular Gyarados if it chooses to stay unevolved. Gyarados can beat the Specs set if it stays unevolved and DDs on the switch. Keldeo and non-Mega Gyara both 3HKO each other and Keldeo is faster.
However, an Expert Belt set can fix this. If you think they are going to stick in out in their Water / Flying form, EBelt HP Electric is pretty much a guaranteed KO from full health. EBelt Secret Sword is also close to a guaranteed KO. It requires some prediction and bluffing, but it also potentially eliminates to only losing situation.
Keldeo also loses to hax from Waterfall or Crunch.
Choice Specs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 125-147 (37.7 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 392-464 (118.4 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 76-90 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- 88.7% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 384-452 (116 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Expert Belt:
252 SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 317-374 (95.7 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 76-90 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- 88.7% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 305-362 (92.1 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 125-147 (37.7 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 392-464 (118.4 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 76-90 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- 88.7% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 384-452 (116 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Expert Belt:
252 SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 317-374 (95.7 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 76-90 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- 88.7% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 305-362 (92.1 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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ferrothorn as a check
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
With full defense investment Ferrothorn can act as a solid check, possibly counter, to Mega Gyarados. Because Gyarados doesn't have any form of recovery it'll be always annoyed by Iron Barbs, and with Power Whip, Ferrothorn can easily outlast it.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 145-172 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 228-270 (68.8 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
With full defense investment Ferrothorn can act as a solid check, possibly counter, to Mega Gyarados. Because Gyarados doesn't have any form of recovery it'll be always annoyed by Iron Barbs, and with Power Whip, Ferrothorn can easily outlast it.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 145-172 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 228-270 (68.8 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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When playing a MegaDos you need to keep in mind both forms, so I think here you should try to make sure your check/counter still can do the job v. a dos that hasn't mevod. So to directly answer your question, don't just assume it's already mega evolved; keep both scenarios in mind when writing your entry up (if there's a significant difference).
Reserving Av Azu
Azumarill - Counter (If Dos carries EQ then it becomes a check)
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
The standard AV Azumarill that saw a lot of play in Balanced and Offensively oriented teams make a return! This variant of Azu is now more stronger than ever now and is fully capable of manhandling MGyarados under many different varying scenarios. Even without the ability to boost it's attack to god levels via Belly Drum, this set forgoes sweeping potential to provide the team with not only a strong offensive mon that has a phenomenal defensive typing, but also a mon that has the bulk to tank hits and dish hits out.
If he subs, you break his sub and if he sets up a DD, or do less than 50% damage with unboosted Waterfalls or Crunch, you 2HKO him. Either way, you will win this matchup because once you land a direct hit on Reg Dos, he is crippled to the point where he cannot sub down and due to the lack of recovery, he can easily be neutralised. Due to his main stabs being resisted, AV Azu makes for the best counter since he can easily be slapped onto many teams without much drawbacks as his bulk and power makes him a very versatile mon and is capable of threatening many team archtypes.
Azumarill - Counter (If Dos carries EQ then it becomes a check)
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
The standard AV Azumarill that saw a lot of play in Balanced and Offensively oriented teams make a return! This variant of Azu is now more stronger than ever now and is fully capable of manhandling MGyarados under many different varying scenarios. Even without the ability to boost it's attack to god levels via Belly Drum, this set forgoes sweeping potential to provide the team with not only a strong offensive mon that has a phenomenal defensive typing, but also a mon that has the bulk to tank hits and dish hits out.
Azumarill attacking
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 218-260 (65.8 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 144-171 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 217-256 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega/Reg Gyarados attacking
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 98-116 (24.4 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 84-99 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 218-260 (65.8 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 144-171 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 217-256 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega/Reg Gyarados attacking
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 98-116 (24.4 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 84-99 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
If he subs, you break his sub and if he sets up a DD, or do less than 50% damage with unboosted Waterfalls or Crunch, you 2HKO him. Either way, you will win this matchup because once you land a direct hit on Reg Dos, he is crippled to the point where he cannot sub down and due to the lack of recovery, he can easily be neutralised. Due to his main stabs being resisted, AV Azu makes for the best counter since he can easily be slapped onto many teams without much drawbacks as his bulk and power makes him a very versatile mon and is capable of threatening many team archtypes.
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Reserving mega altaria
Mega Altaria - Counter
Altaria @ Altariaite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost
Altaria can come in each mega gyara's moves and OhKOed with return.
This set takes a physical approach to Altaria's newfound offensive prowess that comes with its new Mega Evolution. Return is the obligatory STAB attack, powered up by Pixilate, EQ for coverage and roost for recovery.
192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 374-444 (112.9 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 246-289 (74.3 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 69-81 (22.4 - 26.3%) -- 17.4% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 102-121 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 102-121 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
Mega Altaria - Counter
Altaria @ Altariaite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost
Altaria can come in each mega gyara's moves and OhKOed with return.
This set takes a physical approach to Altaria's newfound offensive prowess that comes with its new Mega Evolution. Return is the obligatory STAB attack, powered up by Pixilate, EQ for coverage and roost for recovery.
192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 374-444 (112.9 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 246-289 (74.3 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 69-81 (22.4 - 26.3%) -- 17.4% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 102-121 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 102-121 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
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Clefable as a Check
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft Boiled
- Stealth Rock / Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave / Fire Blast
With maximum defense investment, clefable can take Gyarados's hits fairly well and retailate with a Moonblast. Clefable is only a check because if it switches in on a dragon dance it will be 2HKOed 75% of the time. The moves are obviously interchangable, I usually prefer T-wave over Fire Blast so that Gengar and Charizard Y dont get free switch ins, and you can play around with parahax when trying to fend off gyara, but that isnt too reliable.
Calcs:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 156-186 (47.1 - 56.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft Boiled
- Stealth Rock / Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave / Fire Blast
With maximum defense investment, clefable can take Gyarados's hits fairly well and retailate with a Moonblast. Clefable is only a check because if it switches in on a dragon dance it will be 2HKOed 75% of the time. The moves are obviously interchangable, I usually prefer T-wave over Fire Blast so that Gengar and Charizard Y dont get free switch ins, and you can play around with parahax when trying to fend off gyara, but that isnt too reliable.
Calcs:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 156-186 (47.1 - 56.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
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Check:
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind
Keldeo is a great Check to Mega Gyarados, which can come in on any of its moves because of Keldeo's Water and Dark resistance. The only way Keldeo can ever loose, is if Gyarados didn't take rocks damage, sets up a DD on the switch to Keldeo and doesn't mega evolve. (Beware of regular Gyarados with Bounce, but you can scout that easily by just bringing in Keldeo).You could also loose by getting flinched.
The loosing situation:
Gyarados sits at +1 and 3HKO's you with Waterfall, while you also just can 3HKO him with Secret Sword (Gyara is faster after a DD).
But if your opponent is inexperienced, you also can get away with this situation. Your opponent sets up a Sub, while you break it with Secret Sword and 2HKO him then.
The winning situation:
Pretty much everything else. Just spam Secret Sword and you will be fine.
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind
Keldeo is a great Check to Mega Gyarados, which can come in on any of its moves because of Keldeo's Water and Dark resistance. The only way Keldeo can ever loose, is if Gyarados didn't take rocks damage, sets up a DD on the switch to Keldeo and doesn't mega evolve. (Beware of regular Gyarados with Bounce, but you can scout that easily by just bringing in Keldeo).
The loosing situation:
Gyarados sits at +1 and 3HKO's you with Waterfall, while you also just can 3HKO him with Secret Sword (Gyara is faster after a DD).
But if your opponent is inexperienced, you also can get away with this situation. Your opponent sets up a Sub, while you break it with Secret Sword and 2HKO him then.
The winning situation:
Pretty much everything else. Just spam Secret Sword and you will be fine.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 126-148 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 69-82 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 103-122 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 69-82 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 103-122 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 386-456 (116.6 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall / Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 81-96 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall / Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 121-143 (37.4 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall / Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 81-96 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall / Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 121-143 (37.4 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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Celticpride has already reserved that
Skarmory
Check
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rocks / Taunt
- Counter / Brave Bird
Skarmory is a great check to mega gyarados because of it's immense physical bulk. Even at +1, gyarados's waterfall fails to 2HKO skarmory, while skarmory can easily use roost and leftovers to get back some HP. If gyarados tries to get too greedy and go for too many dragon dances or substitutes, skarmory can just phaze it out with whirlwind, or taunt it. When gyarados attack skarmory, skarmory can tank a hit and then retaliate back with counter.
Calcs:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-102 (25.4 - 30.5%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-102 (25.4 - 30.5%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Check
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rocks / Taunt
- Counter / Brave Bird
Skarmory is a great check to mega gyarados because of it's immense physical bulk. Even at +1, gyarados's waterfall fails to 2HKO skarmory, while skarmory can easily use roost and leftovers to get back some HP. If gyarados tries to get too greedy and go for too many dragon dances or substitutes, skarmory can just phaze it out with whirlwind, or taunt it. When gyarados attack skarmory, skarmory can tank a hit and then retaliate back with counter.
Calcs:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-102 (25.4 - 30.5%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-102 (25.4 - 30.5%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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Reserving Mega Venu
p2
Banned deucer.
Check
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Conkeldurr can safely come in against Mega Gyarados and 2HKO it with Drain Punch followed by Mach Punch and it can easily take a hit if it comes in on the Dragon Dance
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 264-312 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 140-168 (42.2 - 50.7%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 234-276 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 117-138 (28.2 - 33.3%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (cannot 3HKO without SR)
I'm pretty sure it can fit the definition of a counter, but it has trouble with non-mega Gyarados which can easily setup in front of Conkeldurr before mega evolving, so I'll just keep it as a check
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Conkeldurr can safely come in against Mega Gyarados and 2HKO it with Drain Punch followed by Mach Punch and it can easily take a hit if it comes in on the Dragon Dance
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 264-312 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 140-168 (42.2 - 50.7%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 234-276 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 117-138 (28.2 - 33.3%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (cannot 3HKO without SR)
I'm pretty sure it can fit the definition of a counter, but it has trouble with non-mega Gyarados which can easily setup in front of Conkeldurr before mega evolving, so I'll just keep it as a check
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Already reserved
p2
Banned deucer.
oops, I'll find something else then
I would call Skarmory a check, not a counter. If you switch on +1 Gyarados, if it flinches you with Waterfall you are done and 30% means it will happen quite often. In addition, you can just phaze it and you have to win some mindgames with Counter to actualy beat it so if you use Skarmory as you Gyarados answer you won't always beat it, for me thats enough to call it a check and not a counter. It's a solid one ofc, but it just doesn't beat Gyarados all the time it faces it.
Since Zapdos isn't a check (Outsped and 2HKOed with +1 Waterfall. Can't OHKO back) I'll take Kyu-B instead.
Check
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
Kyurem-B can come in on any of Gyarados' moves, then threaten a 2HKO with Outrage or Fusion Bolt. With the speed investment and Choice Scarf, Gyarados is outsped even after a Dragon Dance boost.
It's only a check because, unless Gyarados hasn't Mega Evolved yet, it can't switch in to Crunch at +1, especially if Stealth Rock or more than 1 layer of Spikes is in play.
.
Check
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
Kyurem-B can come in on any of Gyarados' moves, then threaten a 2HKO with Outrage or Fusion Bolt. With the speed investment and Choice Scarf, Gyarados is outsped even after a Dragon Dance boost.
It's only a check because, unless Gyarados hasn't Mega Evolved yet, it can't switch in to Crunch at +1, especially if Stealth Rock or more than 1 layer of Spikes is in play.
Kyurem-B:
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 248-294 (74.9 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 150-177 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 223-264 (67.3 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 46-55 (13.8 - 16.6%) -- possible 7HKO
Gyarados:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 150-177 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 75-88 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 223-264 (57 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 111-132 (28.3 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 297-351 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 248-294 (74.9 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 150-177 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 223-264 (67.3 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 46-55 (13.8 - 16.6%) -- possible 7HKO
Gyarados:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 150-177 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 75-88 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 223-264 (57 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 111-132 (28.3 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 297-351 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Counter:
Avalugg @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Recover
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
Avalugg is a fantastic physical tank, boasting 95 base HP and 184 base Def, allowing it to easily counter most physical attackers even without EV investment in defense.
Relevant calcs:
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Avalugg: 118-141 (30 - 35.8%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Avalugg: 118-141 (30 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Crunch is identical)
Avalugg then proceeds to recover off damage and use M-Gyarados as set up fodder with curse. Given that Gyarados has no recovery or way to patch up defenses of its own, you can make short work of it, with Earthquake 2HKOing it at +2 if using Rocky Helmet or +3 if running leftovers.
Admittedly Avalugg is a pretty niche pokemon, but I honestly don't think it's outclassed by anyone due to it's unique combination of physical bulk, instant recovery, and ability to set up with curse. It gets totally wrecked by special attackers though, but that can be mitigated by running a special wall like Chansey.
Avalugg @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Recover
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
Avalugg is a fantastic physical tank, boasting 95 base HP and 184 base Def, allowing it to easily counter most physical attackers even without EV investment in defense.
Relevant calcs:
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Avalugg: 118-141 (30 - 35.8%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Avalugg: 118-141 (30 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Crunch is identical)
Avalugg then proceeds to recover off damage and use M-Gyarados as set up fodder with curse. Given that Gyarados has no recovery or way to patch up defenses of its own, you can make short work of it, with Earthquake 2HKOing it at +2 if using Rocky Helmet or +3 if running leftovers.
Admittedly Avalugg is a pretty niche pokemon, but I honestly don't think it's outclassed by anyone due to it's unique combination of physical bulk, instant recovery, and ability to set up with curse. It gets totally wrecked by special attackers though, but that can be mitigated by running a special wall like Chansey.
Wouldn't Magic Guard Clefable be a bit more worthwhile (not that it's the best check, tbh :/)? I guess with Unaware you force it to Mega Evolve in order to kill you if that's what you're going for, but by being Unaware you're forced to take chip damage as you're sent in. At least Magic Guard Clef has the luxury to be at full health when it comes in.
Counter:
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
-Scald
-Circle Throw
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Poliwrath is the ultimate middle-finger to Mega Gyarados, thanks to it resisting the Water/Dark combination. It is able to come in on M-Gyara and proceed to shut it down with Circle Throw. RestTalk lets Poli repeatedly do this throughout any given match. GL breaking this, M-Gyara.
Not limited to walling M-Gyara, Poli is able to check a plethora of OU threats such as Keldeo, Landorus-T, Heatran, Mega Lopunny, Greninja, Scizor and ExcaTar. Mega Swampert and Kabutops are kept in check, too.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
-Scald
-Circle Throw
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Poliwrath is the ultimate middle-finger to Mega Gyarados, thanks to it resisting the Water/Dark combination. It is able to come in on M-Gyara and proceed to shut it down with Circle Throw. RestTalk lets Poli repeatedly do this throughout any given match. GL breaking this, M-Gyara.
Not limited to walling M-Gyara, Poli is able to check a plethora of OU threats such as Keldeo, Landorus-T, Heatran, Mega Lopunny, Greninja, Scizor and ExcaTar. Mega Swampert and Kabutops are kept in check, too.
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 55-66 (14.3 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 55-66 (14.3 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
(I always forget about Mold Breaker :/)
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 55-66 (14.3 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
(I always forget about Mold Breaker :/)
0 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 116-138 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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