Metagame np: Stage 3 - 9(9) Problems

[Punchshroom]

I mean the biggest reason to use Mantine right now (aside from Defog support ofc) is to wall specially offensive Water-types (Ludicolo and Samurott) as well as Fire-types such as Pyroar, Typhlosion, and Mega Camerupt, while still tanking Mega Steelix well enough; I wouldn't say SpD Mantine is bad at all, especially a RestTalking variant (can still take on Ludi and Rott with Scald alone).

 

[Hot N Cold]

Max spef mantine is bad js. Physically defensive allows it to still check m-rupt as well as it can provide a solid check to m-lix as well

Well, SpD Mantine checks Typhlosion, Super Audino-Mega, Special Samurott, Offensive Seismitoad, Pyroar between others :/

prolly a mixed spread is the way to go.

 

[Fling]

Can we talk about the idea of suspecting mega lix? Like mega camel was included in the quick ban vote with panda and mega glalie and mega lix wasnt which I though a bit odd seen as I find lix a much bigger problem in the meta. Its not that its stupidly powerful or anything but its just so hard to kill and can hit very hard with heavy slam and eq. I just find it to be unhealthy for the meta.(on mobile so sorry to be so brief)

 

[tennisace]

put that thought on hold until ~jan 10th to account for both the tier shifting and then the metagame somewhat settling imo

 

[Swagodile]

Can we talk about the idea of suspecting mega lix? Like mega camel was included in the quick ban vote with panda and mega glalie and mega lix wasnt which I though a bit odd seen as I find lix a much bigger problem in the meta. Its not that its stupidly powerful or anything but its just so hard to kill and can hit very hard with heavy slam and eq. I just find it to be unhealthy for the meta.(on mobile so sorry to be so brief)

I personally don't find Mega Steelix to be a problem.

Its weaknesses are common, and it's worn down easily.

 

[honchkrow]

I personally don't find Mega Steelix to be a problem.

Its weaknesses are common, and it's worn down easily.

i would hardly say its worn down easily. It has access to rest talk which extends its longevity significantly. With access to stone edge and fire fang to smack Mantine and Ferroseed respectively in addition to its incredibly strong STAB's, Mega Steelix is a huge threat. I have to agree with Fling > Knock Off in that Mega Steelix should be if not suspected then taken into consideration for a suspect

 

[pokemonnunu]

what is the standard set for Mantine?

 

[boltsandbombers]

what is the standard set for Mantine?

The EVs are somewhat flexible, as you can run a more specially defensive spread to better handle typhlosion, pyroar, mega camerupt, etc or a more physically defensive spread to better handle things such as feraligatr and mega steelix. Obviously a mixed spread works too.
The best moveset is: Scald / Defog / Haze / Toxic or Air Slash
Edit: questions like this should go in the simple questions, simple answers thread in the future.

 

[Evan.]

Just gonna share some stuff that I think is really effective in the meta right now as well as some of my own innovation

Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Grass Knot

Raichu is really nice right now. With MegaRupt and MegaLix being so popular as of late the meta has really shifted away from Rotom as the premier offensive electric type. Raichu sits in a crisp base 110 speed tier which outspeeds or ties with all relevant non-scarfed mons in the tier. This allows it to make the most of it's coverage with a Life Orb. Surf bops MegaRupt and MegaLix while Grass Knot allows it to still hit Seismitoad, which is also really common right now.

Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
24 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 232 Spd
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earthquake

Nobody has any switch-ins for E-Vire right now. The recent meta shifts have created a much slower paced meta which allows E-Vire to shine. The EVs allow you to outpace +Natured Base 80's such as Kabutops and Mesprit which is all you really need. Without a Naive nature, E-Vire hits surprisingly hard and with practically perfect coverage, it decimates slower/bulkier teams.

Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
172 HP / 252 SpAtk / 84 Spd
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave / Encore / Surf
- Healing Wish

Pivot M-Audino is a pretty cool set that I came up with the other day. It works as a great Mega Steelix lure with Fire Blast, 2HKOing SpDef M-lix with a bit of prior damage. Healing Wish is a great move in general and it allows Audino to provide utility late game to support a sweeper. The last slot can be used to support whatever your team needs. T-Wave is nice on slower teams, Encore is a good utility move in general and Surf can be used to bait in MegaRupt as well.

Also i think we should kinda cool it with the MegaLix suspect talk. It's really good rn but it seems like a mon that can be adapted to, just get out there and try new stuff instead of the same old shit that M-Lix beats. :)

 

[Infernis]

Well hello, everyone. I'm back! Surprised to see so many of my favorite NU pokemon still down here, but maybe it'll make my first 6th gen team a bit easier to work with.

I always knew Hariyama would hit the big time.

I'm gonna go try some random crap teams from 5th gen NU and see what happens, excited to get back into the metagame with all these newfangled pokemon. (And a new type!) I'm looking forward to using Sticky Web, that seems like a fantastic move for a tier where a lot of the pokemon are powerful but not quite fast enough to hack it in higher tiers. (Go go blue karate man!)

UPDATE: Yep, Leavanny's still trash.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

happy new year, hopefully the tier shifts don't destroy NU too much. here's some stuff I've been having fun with:

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Aqua Tail

In my opinion this is Serp's better set. Unlike the CM set Serp can punish Fire-types switching in with Aqua Tail and has a powerful move to hit the likes of Mesprit and Rotom. SD Serp unlike Leafeon outruns stuff like Archeops, Pyroar, and Typhlosion. Basically eliminate bulky Poison-types and stuff like Scyther and sweep. MegaLix takes about 50% from +2 Aqua Tail iirc so weaken that too. Try this set out before Contrary Leaf Storm becomes the only Serp set.

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn

I was counterteaming Deej Dy and to make my team more Malamar-proof, I used Megahorn Rhydon. This Rhydon spread is designed to always OHKO a +1 Malamar with Megahorn without any prior damage, and comes quite close to doing so vs +2 Malamar after SR and a bit of residual damage (does about 75-90% iirc). So, it always wins in a one-on-one situation if it doesn't miss and at worst severely weakens Malamar if switching in. It also OHKOs Lilligant switching in, OHKOs Mesprit after damage from SR + LO switching in, and hits a Roosting Xatu hard. The Special Defense EVs enable it to check Fire-types better and even live some HP Grasses from a high amount of HP; it has enough physical bulk to check Normal-types as it is.

Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Climb
- Zen Headbutt
- Substitute
- Endeavor

With all the MegaLix running around, Tauros can lure them in really well and hit them with a SubEndeavor. It's also really useful against random bulky Pokemon you would like to be gone, or to defeat something scary that's about to sweep you (cough Malamar cough CM Mush). Apart from that, Tauros actually hits really hard with Sheer Force LO Rock Climb and in addition it is really fast (it's as fast as Archeops), too, meaning it can actually sweep teams if you manage to keep it alive after weakening their stuff. This bull is very underrated but really good.

Feraligatr @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: whatever spread you run
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch

Rindo Berry is so much better than Lum imo; few people try to status a Gatr because of how common Lum is and I pair this with HW support so Gatr gets a second chance either way and to sweep after it breaks what it has to. Rindo guarantees that Vileplume will never beat you and you no longer need to find out if it's offensive or defensive because you can simply set up to +4 and live even Specs Plume Giga Drain. It also enables you to weaken Tangela and prevents Lilligant / Leafeon / Serp from revenge killing you which is what a lot of people rely on to check Gatr.

...

Honestly I think the metagame is really fun right now, there's so much fun stuff to try, and I'll definitely be coming back to post what more I find fun to use. Mega Steelix is really annoying but whatever, I don't think it's broken :)

 

[boltsandbombers]

happy new year, hopefully the tier shifts don't destroy NU too much. here's some stuff I've been having fun with:

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Aqua Tail

In my opinion this is Serp's better set. Unlike the CM set Serp can punish Fire-types switching in with Aqua Tail and has a powerful move to hit the likes of Mesprit and Rotom. SD Serp unlike Leafeon outruns stuff like Archeops, Pyroar, and Typhlosion. Basically eliminate bulky Poison-types and stuff like Scyther and sweep. MegaLix takes about 50% from +2 Aqua Tail iirc so weaken that too. Try this set out before Contrary Leaf Storm becomes the only Serp set.

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn

I was counterteaming Deej Dy and to make my team more Malamar-proof, I used Megahorn Rhydon. This Rhydon spread is designed to always OHKO a +1 Malamar with Megahorn without any prior damage, and comes quite close to doing so vs +2 Malamar after SR and a bit of residual damage (does about 75-90% iirc). So, it always wins in a one-on-one situation if it doesn't miss and at worst severely weakens Malamar if switching in. It also OHKOs Lilligant switching in, OHKOs Mesprit after damage from SR + LO switching in, and hits a Roosting Xatu hard. The Special Defense EVs enable it to check Fire-types better and even live some HP Grasses from a high amount of HP; it has enough physical bulk to check Normal-types as it is.

Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Climb
- Zen Headbutt
- Substitute
- Endeavor

With all the MegaLix running around, Tauros can lure them in really well and hit them with a SubEndeavor. It's also really useful against random bulky Pokemon you would like to be gone, or to defeat something scary that's about to sweep you (cough Malamar cough CM Mush). Apart from that, Tauros actually hits really hard with Sheer Force LO Rock Climb and in addition it is really fast (it's as fast as Archeops), too, meaning it can actually sweep teams if you manage to keep it alive after weakening their stuff. This bull is very underrated but really good.

Feraligatr @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: whatever spread you run
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch

Rindo Berry is so much better than Lum imo; few people try to status a Gatr because of how common Lum is and I pair this with HW support so Gatr gets a second chance either way and to sweep after it breaks what it has to. Rindo guarantees that Vileplume will never beat you and you no longer need to find out if it's offensive or defensive because you can simply set up to +4 and live even Specs Plume Giga Drain. It also enables you to weaken Tangela and prevents Lilligant / Leafeon / Serp from revenge killing you which is what a lot of people rely on to check Gatr.

...

Honestly I think the metagame is really fun right now, there's so much fun stuff to try, and I'll definitely be coming back to post what more I find fun to use. Mega Steelix is really annoying but whatever, I don't think it's broken :)

Agreeing with everything, but I'd rather just bop mega steelix with a fire blast than basically kill your Tauros using sub + endeavor trying to weaken it.
Although it is nice to be able to weaken stuff like Malamar and mushy, but I digress.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Agreeing with everything, but I'd rather just bop mega steelix with a fire blast than basically kill your Tauros using sub + endeavor trying to weaken it.
Although it is nice to be able to weaken stuff like Malamar and mushy, but I digress.

4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 101-120 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO

nah

 

[boltsandbombers]

4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 101-120 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO

nah

That is gross. Do people really run 252 / 252 ? I tend to run adamant and I know tennis loves fast mega steelix to outspeed stuff like vileplume.

 

[Swagodile]

| 68 | Hitmonchan | 2.19131% | 3038 | 4.045% | 2425 | 3.984% |

Long overdue in my opinion.

Now if only Ambipom and Claydol would come down too.

 

[Punchshroom]

That is gross. Do people really run 252 / 252 ? I tend to run adamant and I know tennis loves fast mega steelix to outspeed stuff like vileplume.

Max HP / max SpD is definitely a thing, since Mega Steelix still hits pretty damn hard even without investment and lands nearly all the necessary 2HKOes on most offensive Pokemon. Adamant Mega Steelix breaks cores better, but SpD Mega Steelix takes hits very well and does great against offense, walling the likes of Mesprit, SubCM Uxie, and Rotom for days, and most importantly shrugging off Fire-type coverage from the likes of Electivire, Archeops, Xatu, Tauros, and especially those damn offensive Mega Audinos that people have been rambling on about. That goes for your Surf Raichu too, Can-Eh-Dian.

Keep in mind that this is under the assumption that this is a RestTalk SpD Mega Steelix.

 

[Davon]

Swanna @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Roost

Since we're on the topic of underrated/new sets, this is a Swanna set that I've been using to some success. Swanna is a lot better in the ORAS metagame than it was in XY. Firstly, Swanna can check Mega Camerupt and Mega Steelix, which not much in the metagame can switch into their STABs and force them out. Another reason why I think this set is a lot better now is because the metagame has gotten a lot slower. 98 speed is pretty fast in the current metagame, and Swanna doesn't need to invest fully because the next fastest common pokemon in NU is Rotom, so that's what 200+ speed hits on Swanna. I guess you could run enough speed for base 95's like Primeape and Electivire if you're really weak to them, but I feel like they aren't common enough to speed creep them. Life orb-boosted Hydro Pump OHKOs non-spdef mega Steelix, and if they are spdef heavy slam won't 2hko. Substitute lets you take advantage of hurricane confusions dodge status.
Edit: Swanna doesn't get hydro pump nm about that :[

 

[Aladyyn]

Swanna doesn't get Hydro Pump though.

 

[Mysil]

where can you find information about the tier shifts?

 

[Evan.]

Max HP / max SpD is definitely a thing, since Mega Steelix still hits pretty damn hard even without investment and lands nearly all the necessary 2HKOes on most offensive Pokemon. Adamant Mega Steelix breaks cores better, but SpD Mega Steelix takes hits very well and does great against offense, walling the likes of Mesprit, SubCM Uxie, and Rotom for days, and most importantly shrugging off Fire-type coverage from the likes of Electivire, Archeops, Xatu, Tauros, and especially those damn offensive Mega Audinos that people have been rambling on about. That goes for your Surf Raichu too, Can-Eh-Dian.

Keep in mind that this is under the assumption that this is a RestTalk SpD Mega Steelix.

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 148-177 (41.8 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Electivire Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 169-200 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Audino Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 142-168 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>shrugging off
>walling
all you need is a spike up and it gets 2hko'd smh

 

[Ares]

where can you find information about the tier shifts?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ge-statistics-discussion-thread-mk-2.3508502/

 

[Davon]

Swanna doesn't get Hydro Pump though.

oml I feel retarded... Fixed
I've been using scald and noticed it was just short of an ohko on a damage calc, so I figured I'd slash hydro lol

 

[Lord Alphose]

Mawile dropped from UU to RU (Mawilite is still Uber)

It's coming everyone. It's coming.

Also, interesting idea about retesting Sigilyph. I ran some calcs on it: in some aspects, new things are in place to take on sigilyph. Mega Camerupt has the defenses to effectively take it on with minimal investment and is able to deal major damage back. Mega Audino is able to wall it pretty easily, although it can't do all that much in return. Mega Steelix doesn't stand a chance against a Life Orb Heat Wave. And then there are the more subtle changes in the metagame. Have certain Pokemon or playstyles become prominent that merit Sigilyph returning to the tier? The way I'm seeing it, the metagame has become more bulky, especially with the Megas, which could very well mean that Sigilyph would have trouble breaking through some of the walls that the tier has produced. I don't know. It's an interesting idea that you have. What's your reasoning behind suggesting it now?

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Sigilyph shits on every wall in this tier barring Mush/Uxie lol
no thanks

 

[Teddeh]

Well not only are there new pokemon, but new strategies have come around such as bulky psychic types like mesprit, uxie and there are still things like probopass. New megas, new tactics, the meta has adapted a lot in 6 months, i am just curious as to how the meta would adapt and it would freshen the feeling in the tier since we didn't get any cool drops from RU. It's after all a retesting, we can see how new things will cope with the old things. Also, there are still things like weather teams that are a hell of a lot more popular now that make sigi not as good and less bp users such as combusken.