Research Pokemon that lost their moves

[Lucchini]

A topic with two separate and unrelated questions actually.

1) What are the Pokemon who completely lose access to certain moves (say, by TM or tutor) upon evolution? I'm not talking about having differences in natural learnpool, of which there are too many examples in just about every generation.

2) How many (and what) instances do we know of when a Pokemon had access to a certain move in one generation but lost it in a later one?

One example I can give here (which inspired the curiosity behind this topic) is Qwilfish having access to Swords Dance in generation 3 but losing access to it (as a TM) for all later generations. I'm sure there should be some more, and I wanted to make a list of these.

Any details added to the information would be greatly appreciated. I'd also prefer to keep event-specific moves out.

 

[Flareon]

Does the move have to be learnable within every generation involved?

Because there's examples of silly things like Arcanine and Magneton learning Teleport in Gen 1. There's also several pokemon, such as Shiftry, that lost access to sucker punch. And Defog's a big one too.

 

[Lucchini]

Yeah, but these are all examples of TMs/tutors becoming unavailable. Swords Dance on Qwilfish is possible thanks to FR/LG and Emerald tutors, but in later generations when Swords Dance is a TM yet again Qwilfish can no longer be taught this move.

 

[Colonel M]

In Gen 2 Igglybuff could learn Icy Wind by TM but Jigglypuff could not.

Gamefreak was really off their rocket with Gen 2 learnsets.

 

[Teru_XD]

My favorite example (and one that I'll never forget) is Kabuto / Kabutops learning Hydro Pump in gen 1, then losing it altogether from gen 2 onwards. I don't think anyone but me misses a Hydro Pump Kabutops, though.

 

[Ranger Mike]

For whatever reason qwilfish can only learn swords dance by tutor in adv and not by tm which is incredibly annoying cause you can't use it with intimidate.

 

[Lucchini]

In Gen 2 Igglybuff could learn Icy Wind by TM but Jigglypuff could not.

Gamefreak was really off their rocket with Gen 2 learnsets.

You're right... And it looks like the same applies to Cleffa and its evolutions.

 

[Lady Vader]

Espeon had Zap Cannon in Generation II through TM, but has not been able to learn that move since.
Machamp could learn Fissure through a Generation I TM. It has not been able to learn that move since. Which is a good thing cause it would have a OHKO move and No Guard naturally in later generations, allowing it to OHKO anything that isn't Flying/has Levitate.
A rare Japanese event Magikarp in Generation I had Dragon Rage. Two other special Magikarp were released in Generation II from the New York Pokémon Center: one with Bubble and one with Reversal.
There are also the Shadow moves from Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness.

A quick related note:
In both Generations V and VI, Elgyem could learn from TM51. In Gen V, this wasn't odd as it had Ally Switch. In Gen VI, it is most odd as it contains Steel Wing. Smooth.

 

[Kurona]

Regigigas was a bit... odd. It had Mega Punch and Stomp as starting moves in DP. However, from Platinum onwards, it lost it's ability to learn those moves and they were replaced by Dizzy Punch and Foresight. Always an oddity I never really understood.

 

[Its_A_Random]

One amusing example I can come up with is Sableye getting Pain Split by tutor in Gen IV before being unable to learn it in Gen V despite it being a tutor (as if Prankster + Pain Split is going to have competitive implications... >_>). In Gen VI it regained access to Pain Split via Tutor however, losing that status.

There are also a whole slew of Pokémon that learned Reflect by TM in Gen I that then lost the ability to learn it in future generations when it became a TM again in Gen III. Porygon, Arcanine, and Venusaur are some of the Pokémon affected by this.

 

[User 86934]

Dratini with Extremespeed was available in G/S/C, but it wasn't available again until the remakes. Fortunately, Extremespeed became an egg move for Dragonite, which was important when they released hidden abilities or you know someone who wants a Dragonite with Extremespeed, but doesn't want to purchase HeartGold/SoulSilver.

 

[Colonel M]

Generation 2 also introduced a lot of funny things with Pokemon that (somehow) became relevant again later on.

A really good example is Delibird. Delibird was able to learn Spikes in GSC. It was unable to learn it until Generation VI with X and Y. I know you said keep event specifics out, but it's pretty relevant just for relearning it 4 generations later.

There are some real oddities for egg moves that you would never expect for Pokemon to have (and for some, never learned again). Some examples are:

- Phanpy with Water Gun
- Cyndaquil with Submission
- Squirtle with Confusion
- Hoppip with Pay Day

Tauros was another odd one. It only learned Stomp in Generation 1 and never again has it been able to since.

Mewtwo also had an interesting award - it could not learn Pay Day in Yellow Version; however, it could in Red and Blue. Guess money doesn't come free from scrub Pokemon when you become the bad ass in a movie.

 

[Its_A_Random]

To add to the above, Staryu was somehow able to learn Egg Moves in Gold and Silver according to Veekun. Those moves were Aurora Beam, Barrier, and Supersonic. Does not learn either in future games.

 

[ethan06]

Here's a fun one: In Gen IV, the Ralts line had Will-o-Wisp available as an egg move thanks to being in the Amorphous egg group. However, it was unable to learn the move any other way despite the move being available as a TM in that generation. You can see this on this page here. The phenomenon has been fixed in every game form Black & White upwards, with the Ralts line being able to learn Will-o-Wisp from the TM as intended.

edit: not really an example of losing a move, per se, but it is an interesting abnormality.

 

[Lucchini]

Bigger list of discoveries incoming:

- Lapras was able to learn Solar Beam by TM in gen 1, but never again
- Gastly and Haunter could access Thunder by TM in the first two generations, but never afterwards
- Spinarak/Ariados could learn Swift by TM in gen 2 but not with the later tutors
- Rattata could not access Thunderbolt by tutor in gen 2 (it could learn it by gen 1 TM and again in gens 3-6)
- The same happened to both Nidorans with Ice Beam
- Zangoose could somehow learn Thunder Wave by tutor in gen 3, but not later

Sky Attack seems like a particularly interesting case; it appears that GameFreak had no idea what to do with it so there's a glaring lack of consistency here. Here's where some Pokemon learn/don't learn the move:

Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Taillow, Wingull, Natu and Swablu in XD, ORAS, but not HGSS and B2W2
Spearow, Hoothoot, Murkrow not in HGSS
Doduo in XD (and gen 1 TM) but never again
Togetic only in XD
Lugia not in XD

 

[Kurona]

Bigger list of discoveries incoming:

- Lapras was able to learn Solar Beam by TM in gen 1, but never again
- Gastly and Haunter could access Thunder by TM in the first two generations, but never afterwards
- Spinarak/Ariados could learn Swift by TM in gen 2 but not with the later tutors
- Rattata could not access Thunderbolt by tutor in gen 2 (it could learn it by gen 1 TM and again in gens 3-6)
- The same happened to both Nidorans with Ice Beam
- Zangoose could somehow learn Thunder Wave by tutor in gen 3, but not later

Sky Attack seems like a particularly interesting case; it appears that GameFreak had no idea what to do with it so there's a glaring lack of consistency here. Here's where some Pokemon learn/don't learn the move:

Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Taillow, Wingull, Natu and Swablu in XD, ORAS, but not HGSS and B2W2
Spearow, Hoothoot, Murkrow not in HGSS
Doduo in XD (and gen 1 TM) but never again
Togetic only in XD
Lugia not in XD

Should you start listing all this in the OP?

 

[WideTomato]

Mudkip can learn Hydro Pump at level 42, marshtomp and swampert are both unable to learn it in any other way.

Edit: Btw, great threat!

 

[Flareon]

Espeon had Zap Cannon in Generation II through TM, but has not been able to learn that move since.

IIRC, Eevee could learn it, which extended to all of the others.

In HG/SS, Nosepass gained Head Smash as an egg move... but at the time, there were no legal parents, so it lost access to it. Even though now Aegislash would be able to pass it, it still can't inherit it.

 

[noobcubed]

Mudkip can learn Hydro Pump at level 42, marshtomp and swampert are both unable to learn it in any other way.

Edit: Btw, great threat!

Of significant competitive relevance, Breloom has a similar thing with Spore. It can only learn it as a Shroomish, and only well after it is able to evolve. If you wanted a Spore Breloom in generation III, you had to keep your Shroomish unevolved for 31 levels beyond where it was able to become a Breloom. And of course, Spore is Breloom's most important move by miles.

 

[rufus drumknott]

There are plenty of Pokemon that only learn moves by a prior evolution, should they really count? I'm pretty sure at least one NPC in every game will mention that they're torn on evolving their Pokemon because some Pokemon only learn moves at one evolution, or learn certain moves faster, but their Pokemon will grow stronger if they allow them to evolve (which is obvious).

 

[Lucchini]

Yeah, like I said in the first post:

I'm not talking about having differences in natural learnpool, of which there are too many examples in just about every generation.

Such a list would be exceedingly long and not particularly interesting, I think.

Another example of the first kind of oblivion to previously learnable moves is found in BW, of all places. Minccino can be taught Thief, but the same doesn't apply to Cinccino, its evolution. This was fixed in B2/W2 however.

I have a decent list of more examples of 2) coming up; I'll probably make the full list when it seems like we're approaching completion.

Not quite sure what to do with breeding moves, but it looks like, some oddities aside, an egg move that was learnable in a prior generation usually carries over to all next generations, so the exceptions should be very few, it seems to me (haven't done much breeding myself to be frank).

 

[Kurona]

Not quite sure what to do with breeding moves, but it looks like, some oddities aside, an egg move that was learnable in a prior generation usually carries over to all next generations, so the exceptions should be very few, it seems to me (haven't done much breeding myself to be frank).

Would you count egg moves that weren't carried over when they became TMs? ie Steel Wing was an egg move once but when it became a TM it stopped being an egg move
A similar thing occurs with a lot of gen 3-4 TMs; many of them were breedable in Gen 3-4 but lost that status when TMs became infinite use in Gen 5.

 

[DHR-107]

Here's a fun one: In Gen IV, the Ralts line had Will-o-Wisp available as an egg move thanks to being in the Amorphous egg group. However, it was unable to learn the move any other way despite the move being available as a TM in that generation. You can see this on this page here. The phenomenon has been fixed in every game form Black & White upwards, with the Ralts line being able to learn Will-o-Wisp from the TM as intended.

edit: not really an example of losing a move, per se, but it is an interesting abnormality.

Didn't something similar happen with Nosepass and Head Smash? It gained it as an Egg Move in HGSS, but had no legal father to pass the move too it, as it couldn't breed with any mons that had it. They removed it in BW/BW2, but now Aegislash could pass the move down, but it can't learn it anymore.

 

[Flareon]

Didn't something similar happen with Nosepass and Head Smash? It gained it as an Egg Move in HGSS, but had no legal father to pass the move too it, as it couldn't breed with any mons that had it. They removed it in BW/BW2, but now Aegislash could pass the move down, but it can't learn it anymore.

I already pointed that out a few posts up :)

 

[Lucchini]

Some more:

A good half of the cast could learn Reflect in RBY but lost access to it for good. Now, the interesting part is that Bellsprout regained Reflect in generation 5 after not being able to learn it in gens 3 and 4.
Kabuto was able to learn Aerial Ace in generation 3 but never again.
Cyndaquil and evos could be taught Iron Tail in generation 2 but not later.
Electabuzz and Magmar lost access to Metronome after generation 1, unable to tutor it in generation 3.
Kabuto briefly "unlearned" Surf in generation 2.
Politoed could be taught Ice Punch by TM in GSC but couldn't be tutored it again until generation 5 (not learned in Emerald or Pt / HGSS tutors).
Nidoqueen could only be taught Rollout in generation 2.

There also seems to be a huge disorder concerning the different forms of Deoxys - in one generation one form learns a move but the other one doesn't and then it's the other way around in the next generation. Anyone got any idea about this?

It also looks like Spearow, Heracross, Seedot, Shroomish and Mawile can all learn False Swipe by breeding in generation 3-4 but not by TM in generation 4. They all got access to the TM back in the following generation however.