Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[TheTraininator]

Now, we are going to discuss about the the rest of C and D ranks, and everything else from the whole list that people want to, so we can deal with questionable rankings such as Thundurus to S and Mega Beedril to B. Hopefully, we can make one last update before the the suspect test of Greninja finishes. Also, merry Christmas and happy holidays guys!

Well, since you asked for it...

Mega Beedrill for B+

So I'm sure by now we all know that Mega Bee is, in fact, a glass cannon. It hits really hard really fast, but can't take a hit for shit. The greatest thing about Mega Bee however, is that when played right, it doesn't ever need to. The main reason Mega Bee is used, obviously, is its crazy powerful Adaptability U-Turn, which punches massive holes in things and creates momentum for the user of Mega Bee. It can come in after a knockout or a slow switch by Pokemon like Celebi or Rotom and proceed to slowly cripple the opponents team by firing off a Knock Off or Drill Run on a predicted switch-in or U-Turning out to retain momentum. Repeating this process throughout the match will leave the team severely weakened, until finally Mega Bee can seal the deal by cleaning up the remaining scraps with its lighting quick moves. Though bulkier teams can withstand the onslaught fairly well, offensive teams as a whole are absolutely demolished by it. With all this said, what keeps Mega Bee out of the A rankings? Well, let's look at the definition of B rank:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

I feel this description is way more accurate for Mega Beedrill than A rank is. Obviously its most notable flaw has to be its abysmal 65/40/80 bulk that prevents it from switching in on basically anything other than certain Fighting-type or Grass-type moves. Even though it is incredibly quick, that bulk leaves it very vulnerable to priority, as although Talonflame and Azumarill might hesitate to switch into a potential Posion Jab, there isn't anything stopping them from revenge killing Bee with a powerful Brave Bird or Aqua Jet. Finally, Mega Bee does require more team support than most other offensive Megas to work at its maximum potential. Hazard support, of course, is mandatory, as Mega Bee is a hit-and-run Pokemon by nature, meaning it will be switching in and out a lot, and it is vulnerable to both Stealth Rocks and Toxic Spikes. Beyond that, Bee will also want teammates who can help it get in safely, so it is best used on a Volt-Turn team with Pokemon like Magnezone and Celebi to help it retain momentum. These flaws aside though, there is no denying that Mega Bee is one of the most deadly Pokemon in the B rankings.

Due to its ability to effectively dismantle most offensive teams while simultaneously retaining momentum, I believe that Mega Beedrill should be ranked B+.

 

[Karxrida]

Mega Steelix for Unranked
The biggest problem with Mega Steelix is that there's no reason to use it over Mega Aggron. Aggron is effectively bulkier thanks to Filter, is stonger with a higher Attack stat and better options like Ice Punch > Ice Fang, and has enough speed where it can actually speed creep stuff like Clefable. While being part Ground and giving an Electric immunity/STAB on Earthquake sounds like a good enough reason to use it over Aggron, in practice the most important Electrics (Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Mega Manectric) still get past you anyway thanks to coverage (plus two are immune to Earthquake anyway). Being part Ground also it gives a undesirable Water weakness that makes it harder to wall Azumarill and a Grass neutrality that makes Grass Knot hit harder.

On an unrelated note, I'm redacting everything I said about Azelf if it matters to anyone.

 

[Kurona]

oh yeah uh alexwolf are we allowed to discuss unranked stuff or is it just everything in the current viability rankings? just I wasn't quite sure by your post

 

[alexwolf]

oh yeah uh alexwolf are we allowed to discuss unranked stuff or is it just everything in the current viability rankings? just I wasn't quite sure by your post

Unranked stuff are fine, just be reasonable with your suggestions.

 

[Magcargo]

D-Rank ==> Mid / Low C-Rank
I've been using Hydreigon for a while and its preformed pretty well from my experience. LO Dark Pulse is pretty difficult to switch into because it not only is very powerful and has solid neutral coverage, but also because a majority of its switch-ins are bopped by one of its coverage moves (Fairies are hit hard by Flash Cannon, Fighting-types are hit hard by Draco Meteor, etc.). I've found Hydreigon to preform very well vs Balanced teams as a result. Yeah it does have some notable issues such as being very reliant on prediction and sitting at a shit speed tier, but i think its pros are enough for it to rise to C-rank.

I haven't used Choice Scarf yet, but it doesn't seem absolutely terrible on paper considering it outspeeds CS Landorus-T and can revenge kill 3/5 of the mons in S-Rank (not being able to outspeed CS Keldeo really sucks for it however).

 

[Forte9686]

Completely agree with Albacores post, and also want to nominate regular Sableye for C-/D. While it definitely didn't change much from X/Y, that fact that it got a mega evolution leaves even less reason to use it as a stand alone mon, as people usually utilize its regular form along with its mega. Prankster WOW is really all its got going for it, as Mega Sableye has better defenses, an awesome ability, and overall utility. Even with prankster recover, Sableye will die quickly and swiftly due to its shit defenses, and isn't too hard to play around. To put it simply, there is almost no reason to not use Sableye in tandem with its mega form unless you REALLY love prankster WOW's. The combined utility of Sableye and its mega form far outclasses what its base form can do alone.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Supporting Hydreigon for C- or C. It's currently a very decent wallbreaker with its wide range of coverage options and good power to back up stuff with. Its LO set hits hard and has good coverage, and LO Draco meteor stings while its Dark Pulse is pretty useful for Mega Slowbro, Mew, Latis, etc. It can run Superpower or Iron Tail to hit Chansey and Clefable among others. I posted about it in the Lower Tier Threats thread but yeah Hydreigon is definitely better in ORAS OU and although it's still really, really niche, it's better than D imo.

Mega Absol can rise to C or maybe higher (though that might be pushing it). Play Rough+Knock Off being legal is really nice to make M-Absol a much more lethal sweeper than before and sweeps well with priority, coverage, and speed. It also has a cool niche now with Magic Bounce and Play Rough making it the nigh perfect way to defeat Mega Sableye. It is a very good sweeper and is pretty anti-meta beating stuff like Mega Metagross and friends too, and its Speed tier is great, so it can definitely rise to C.

Lol get rid of Mega Steelix and Mega Audino. Metagross should be gone now too because 10/10 times you're using it, it's going to be the Mega.

Bronzong could rise since it's as good as Blade maybe. Either that or Doublade should drop further, idk.

Everything else here seems alright, but I think Diancie should be gone from the list too because why the heck are you using it anyways when you have Mega Diancie.

Albacore, iirc Flygon was added to the ranks for its uses as a Defogger that has okayish bulk and couldn't care less about hazards while doing okay against every Defogger, Jellicent I can't remember why is on the list.

 

[Klobb]

I want to quote a post Josh Morales made in another thread about an analysis for Mega Steelix. It's arguing for his viability and I believe this post shows why Mega Steelix should be D/C- Rank.

So far testing Mega Steelix is going very well. I'm still makin my way up the ladder because ever since the ladder reset upon ORAS' release I only played on the OU ladder using a total joke team with 5 trappers and 1 MEvo hahaha. Before last night I had played in multiple mini tournaments hosted in the OU chat room but that's it, though I digress. The most effective way I've used Mega Steelix is basically hit shit hella hard with sand up and whenever sand is not up you can use it as a fantastic bulky pivot to take a hit easily, scare the enemy out, and predict what they will switch into and pull a double into the appropriate 'mon, unless Mega Steelix is capable of smashing the enemy's switch-in without sand necessary which I've found to not even be a very uncommon occurence since Mega Steelix's most reliable STABs, Heavy Slam and EQ, have very high power and p good coverage too. The only time Mega Steelix fails at doing anything offensively, keep in mind that its offensive prowess as compared to Mega Aggron is what makes it viable at least in my opinion, is when the opponent has one of the select Mega Steelix hard counters such as Rotom-W and Skarmory. Switching into said Pokémon, however, is extremely obvious on the opponent's part so such situations can be exploited by you. Although guessing games created by the need to switch into one "obvious" Pokémon are technically in neither player's favor and thus it can work for you or against you, you must keep one thing in mind which is that he is at a greater risk than you because, prior to the turn in which he may or may not switch into Skarmory or an other such Pokémon on you, you are the one with the initiative and you risk merely losing initiative if he wins the mind game whereas he risks potentially losing a Pokémon altogther if you both keep your Pokémon in battle and Mega Steelix beats his 'mon to a pulp. Anyways as I was saying earlier, when sand isn't up just use Mega Steelix as a worse Mega Aggron(keep in mind that it can perform Mega Aggron's role as a tank extremely well, just not as well) and when sand is active then use it as a tank and hard ass fucking hitter.

People are always comparing Mega Steelix to Mega Aggron, but that's not the only Pokémon to which it should be compared because of Mega Steelix's characteristics and what team archetype it is to be used in order to be used to its fullest extent. Consider it as a Mega Aggron-Excadrill hybrid. Mega Aggron defensively outclasses Mega Steelix in every way except for Mega Steelix being capable to take neutral and resisted special hits better and being a check to Volt Switch spam. In return, Mega Steelix completely outclasses Mega Aggron in offensive prowess. Excadrill, on the other hand, outclasses Mega Steelix in every way offensively except that Mega Steelix has potentially substantially higher powered Steel-type STABs. Duly note that Mega Steelix's Steel-type STABs are an offensive advantage as Heavy Slam combined with Mega Steelix's bulk allows it to let even Defensive Landorus-T not be safe switching-in because it'll be 3HKO'd by Heavy Slam and EQ will fail to 2HKO Mega Steelix. Heavy Slam also OHKOs the Lati@s' base formes which Excadrill's LO Iron Head fails to do. Think of how hard LO Excadrill's Iron Head hits, now imagine giving it a second Life Orb and taking no Life Orb recoil from either of them. That is Mega Steelix's offensive prowess in the sand.

I have also made good progress in determining what is and isn't viable on Mega Steelix. Max HP max Atk RestTalk or max HP max SpD RestTalk are honestly the only sets worth using. There's virtually no reason in using a 3 attacks+Stealth Rocks set because then you might as well use Mega Aggron because Mega Steelix will just die mid-game due to the lack of recovery and then you will either hardly or not at all be able to take advantage of what is the entire reason to use Mega Steelix over Mega Aggron which is its capability to hit hard as fuck and Mega Aggron would set SR more reliably anyways, not only that but if you're using Mega Steelix you should be using a Defensive Tyranitar or Hippowdon with Smooth Rock and you could just have Stealth Rocks on them instead of on your Mega Evolution. Another thing I have to add is Heavy Slam is 75% of the time > Gyro ball despite the higher potential damage output because running minimum speed for Gyro Ball will not allow you to outspeed and 2HKO a weakened Mega Sableye because with minimum speed you will get outsped by Mega Sableye of all things and end up gettin' burned before you can finish it off and then it can Recover in your face. I even ran into one scenario where I managed to severaly weaken a Mega Slowbro trying to set up on my and had I not been running minimum speed then it would have been a speed tie and I might've potentially knocked it out with EQ, so now I actually run 4 speed evs to speed creep Mega Slowbro if there's ever that rare circumstance appearing again. I might as well try and speed creep Mega Slowbro anyways too because putting 4 evs anywhere else is completely arbitrary whereas those seemingly arbitrary 4 Speed evs actually help in at least one situation haha. Lastly, as I displayed in calcs earlier in this thread, Gyro Ball fails to achieve sufficient Base Power against Defensive Landorus-T to 3HKO and thus Defensive Landorus-T is a counter to Mega Steelix w/ Gyro Ball. The only real benefit of Gyro Ball over Heavy Slam is having a chance to OHKO Scarfed Landorus-T after SR damage, but that's only a chance to OHKO so I'd much rather use Heavy Slam to beat both Landorus-T sets. Higher Base Power against fast, offensive teams is not really worth it when Heavy Slam in the sand will OHKO(oftentimes sand isn't needed either) any offensive 'mon that doesn't resist it anyways.

Sorry for the huge essay haha, TL;DR: Mega Steelix is proving its worth easily and needs an analysis, but if you still don't believe me then replays are coming soon.

 

[Mur]

Mega Beedrill for B+ I'm joining the push for Mbee to move up to B+. It's blazing speed tier and power+adaptability lets it revenge a large portion of the meta and let's it dismantle offensive teams with ease. Since magnezone is a common partner this lets beedrill put intense pressure on opposing teams in situations when they either have to let an offensive mon get cracked with an adaptability boosted u-turn or switch in ferro/skarm and get trapped by mag. The momentum provided by Mbee is just too valuable for just B rank imo. The opportunity cost is also not too harsh on beedrill imo because if you're using your mega on a volturn core you are most likely going to opt for bee or mega man so opportunity cost should not really keep it out of B+. Although protect is pretty much a necessity it actually helps Mbee more than most think. Because of it's speed tier most mons that are going to try to revenge you are going to be scarfers(lando-t being one of it's main counters) so protect basically just screws them into one move which makes it hilariously easy to play around them. It's kind of crazy how in those situations Mbee is still able to provide the team momentum even against would be checks and counters.
So because of it's ability to pressure offensive teams and provide momentum in almost any circumstance raise Mega Beedrill to B+.

 

[AM]

Hello everyone and happy holidays :o. Here's another post.

Ok so basically I think Thundurus should drop to A+. It's a fantastic mon but I believe that the hype of its effectiveness from Prankster Twave has died down to make a more respectable ranking for it. For me and others I've been able to talk to it seems like it's gone back to its original roots of how it was in later XY. It has this offensive prowess behind it but its lack of any real defensive traits to capitalize on and is what hinders it the most because its offensive capabilities aren't enough to maintain itself as a top tier threat in my eyes, obviously in regards to how it compares with its flaws. It can clean, wall-break, stall-break, and Prankster Twave can be pretty clutch. However, the fact in most cases you're relying on a 25% not to get completely sacked for something that's suppose to be top tier is a lackluster trait to have and utilize in exchange for all the pros it has available. I don't feel as threatened by Thundurus as I should expect myself to be for something considered S and granted you can't really counter Thundurus but checks aren't exactly difficult to come by. Its pros make it look like S on paper, but its cons shown in practice makes it an A+ ranked threat to me.

This is sort of obvious but Tentacruel needs to rise. Actually checking ninja well unlike Empoleon barring the rare Extrasensory, the utility to break your conventional stall teams or hinder them with Knock Off, Scald, Acid Spray, Rapid Spin with the latter move enhancing the viability of hazard stacking stall. It's really just a solid glue for Stall teams or Defensive minded Balance builds and I would like to see this at B rank or B+ possibly.

Time for some D rank work. It's more so of the fact there's just stuff that realistically doesn't have any sort of usage where the niche is so extreme or stuff that should simply rise. M-Audino while nice and all and I have been able to see it used I don't really think it warrants a rank. It's one of those things that is just beyond general in what it does in the fact that it walls stuff but will never actually have the potential to pose any real sort of threat. I'd like to see Cofagrigus go to C- because its ability + Defense screws over dangerous threats such as M-Metagross and M-Lopunny, and the majority of your physical attackers relying on contact moves which dominate offense in a more physically inclined metagame. Heracross should rise to C. It was originally placed for its AV set in checking threats such as Slowbro and Mew but its Band set hits like a truck, is effective against Balanced and Defensive cores in practice, and M-Sableye stall builds absolutely hate Banded Heracross and are unprepared for it. It should really be reflected that you have to at least prepare for this somewhat. Hydreigon should go to C or even C+. From what I've been able to see it's an absolutely gross wall-breaker with its Life Orb set and teams that are prepared for M-Gross are usually weak to Hydreigon which makes them a perfect duo along with the fact Hydreigons coverage allows for no realistic safe counters. Jellicent should drop it's really not worth a slot on any team because the rising usage of Celebi and the speed tier has made Keldeo a bit easier to check and M-Sableye outclasses this as a spinblocker tremendously. Jellicent made sense when Keldeo was an extremely dominant force in the meta, and right now it isn't so it should be dropped. M-Gross is available and does everything regular Metagross does but a million times better, unrank. No opinion on M-Steelix there was a really long discussion on it in analysis section and was sort of heated so obviously its viability is in question enough to warrant further discussion. I feel like Whimsicott should rise honestly. It has this wide array of support moves to utilize and can utilize well on Balanced and Offensive minded teams and definitely has the merits to be C-.

I copy and pasted this from a text pad so just adding here I agree with an M-Beedrill rise. M-Absol sounds nice on paper I just haven't seen it used effectively to give a real opinion on it. That's all for now.

 

[alexwolf]

Hydreigon to C+

Great scarfer that revenge kills tons of offensive Pokemon with U-turn to keep momentum, great STABs, and good coverage with Earth Power, and decent wallbreaker as well. Honestly, i could see Hydreigon even to B- in the future as it's a really great scarfer which fits on many offensive teams and doesn't have any big weakness aside from the fact that its STABs are not that hard to take advantage of, which is somewhat offset by U-turn though.

Bronzong to C+

Counters Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria, Mamoswine, and Landorus-T, checks Mega Metagross, Mega Gardevoir, Landorus, Garchomp, Mega Pinsir, Excadrill, Mega Aero, and Latios, the amount of Pokemon it handles is staggering. It is dead weight against defensive teams though and very passive in general, and lacks reliable recovery unlike Alomomola (another passive wall that checks many Pokemon), which is why it shouldn't rise to B- no matter how many Pokemon it checks.

Tentacruel to B

Great Pokemon in both balance and stall, pairs nicely with great Pokemon such as Mega Sableye, Landorus-T, and Celebi, and provides tons of utility thanks to the combination of Rapid Spin, Scald, and Knock Off, making it a useful Pokemon no matter the match up. Tentacruel also checks a decent amount of important threats such as Greninja, Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Clefable, Gengar, Heatran, Keldeo, RestTalk Mega Slowbro, Mega Venusaur, Manaphy, and Mega Sceptile. I want Tentacruel one rank higher than Empoleon because of two reasons. First, it deals with Greninja much better, as it's not 2HKOed anything Greninja commonly carries, which is huge. Second, Tentacruel is more difficult to switch into, thanks to Knock Off + Acid Spray + Scald, which can threaten a wide array of offensive and defensive Pokemon, where Empoleon fails to establish any immediate pressure to defensive Pokemon such as Alomomola, Celebi, and Slowbro, which can just slowly KO it while healing themselves.

 

[Kurona]

I want to quote a post Josh Morales made in another thread about an analysis for Mega Steelix. It's arguing for his viability and I believe this post shows why Mega Steelix should be D/C- Rank.

The big problem I have with this is it assumes - unless I've missed something - that sand has to be up for Steelix to be good, and it's what makes Steelix viable.
And I'm not seeing that when we have an immensely better Mega Sand Force abuser in Mega Garchomp, who has insane power, much more than Mega Steelix could ever hope for. And even if you're not going for a Sand Force abuser there's other good Megas to abuse on sand teams like CharY to reset the sand time. Hell I was shitting on it earlier in the thread but if you really want a bulky sand mega go with T-Tar.
It's really late and this post really seems lazy but I don't see Mega Steelix bringing anything good to sand teams. From what I understand Sand Teams like to hit hard and hit fast -- Mega Steelix can't do either particularly well

 

[astroboy]

Venomoth for unranked
i remember at the end of XY OU people were talking about this, but veno is trash tbh. With new magic bounce users (both of which who counter it) to reflect one of sleep powder (one of its biggest niches), being outclasses as a baton passer by smth like scolipede (or even smeargle lmfao), and as a set up sweeper (do people even use it as a set up sweeper? i have no idea, but just incase) by even VOLCORONA. with all its stats being trash, pretty bad typing, and the ability to be SO easily taken care of, veno for unranked

also, what do you guys think of dropping diancie to d (or even unranked but i dont wanna sound too bold)? theres not really any reason other than being a little bulkier and a better user of rocks than its mega. i mean, i dont wanna nom it cause i dont really care, and maybe someone can change my mind, but i really dont see a reason for it in c-

 

[Kurona]

also, what do you guys think of dropping diancie to d (or even unranked but i dont wanna sound too bold)? theres not really any reason other than being a little bulkier and a better user of rocks than its mega. i mean, i dont wanna nom it cause i dont really care, and maybe someone can change my mind, but i really dont see a reason for it in c-

There's also the fact that iirc it's a pretty good trick room setter but I generally agree with moving it down

 

[Mr. Hothead]

Hear me out guys: I like weird noms.

This isnt out of the order imo but lets see.

Thundy T to C- rank.

I get it, i get it. The guy can run scarf and take out a few threats like Lando T and shit. Sadly, that isnt enough for this meta. Since its only viable set is Scarf, of course its gonna have trouble! When its trapped into a move, especially TBolt or HP Ice, it is easy to take out or setup on. Sure, he may have a 145 base SpA and a 105 Attack, but he has no good way to actually boost it as he doesn't have access to Prankster. His once good speed tier is gone, and you may be thinking "SCARF" but that just hinders his great Attacking stats. I wish i could love this guy, but there really is 0 reason to use this over Thundy I rn, unless you want an Attacking variant of it (even though Thundy I has Prankster and NP)

Sableye to C+

This really doesnt seem out of the order to me, but if it does well w/e. Regular Sableye has access to Prankster, and with its Non-Mega set it is pretty trolly. It is arguably one of the best WoW spreaders in the game, with access to +1 Prio WoW. It also has access to the infamous +1 Recovery to stay alive and PP stall, and also Taunt. Taunt is what makes him a monster, cause +1 Taunt will outspeed almost every Taunter in the meta, bar Thundy I. Of course it may have trouble switching in and shit but this guy does so much for just a stallbreaker. Bring it to C+ mang.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Gardevoir: Unranked -> B
This was the most appropriate artwork for Gardevoir I could find.... and the coolest :P
There's two things that really bug me about these rankings, but I'll get to the other one after people have talked about this one. Anyways, it always bugged my that Gardevoir wasn't ranked at all. Its Psychic/Fairy typing is unique to only the Gardevoir line, and her SpA stat of 125 makes her attacks deadly without a boost, and her SpD stat of 115 means she will sometimes live a special attack [barring Greninja, among others] with little to no investment. Her speed, while somewhat low, is workable, but her Physical stats are pretty much garbage, which means Scizor will usually OHKO with Bullet punch. So what makes Gardevoir good? Her movepool outside M Gardevoir. There's many ways to run Gardevoir, so I'll list my 3 Favorite ways to run your non-mega Gardevoir:

#3 "Verlis" Tank Gardevoir [Credit to Verlisify]
Gardevoir @ Sitrus berry
Ability: Synchronize
IVs: 31 HP, Def, Spd, whatever else
Moves:
Will-o-wisp
Confuse ray
Calm mind
Draining kiss
EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4+ Spd, -Atk
Nature: calm

The point of this is to Sponge Special hits with your already great special defence, and use Will-O-Wisp to shut down any sort of Physical offence your opponent may try. Nex you fire confuse ray, and then Calm mind until your health is low and go into Draining kiss to heal. It's like Clefable, but less predictable!

#2: Choiced Destiny [Terrible name, I know :P]
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs: Pretty much the same as the last one, except 31 Speed would help
moves:
will-O-wisp
Trick
Draining kiss/moonblast
Destiny bond
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4Spa
Nature: Timid

Another troll-Esque set! this set is pretty versatile, with full EVs in speed and a choice scarf, you'll outspeed even the Greninjaiest of Greninjas. The idea is simple: Cripple your opponent. if you want freedom, you can start of with trick to give yourself more freedom at the cost of speed [Although you probably shouldn't try that on Greninja], or Will-O-wisp a physical attacker and then switch out. If your opponent taunts, [*cough*Sableye*cough*] you can go in with a scarfed moonblast and deal a serious chink of damage. but my personal favourite thing to do with this set: come into a Greninja after it KOs one of your Pokemon, and Destiny bond. that's all I have to say. This set is a Greninja counter, and even though it's sacrificial, it's one of the more aggressive Greninja counters, and [dare I say it] one of the best.


#1 Scarfdevoir
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs At least 31SpA and 31Speed
Moves:
Moonblast
Psychic
Focus blast/thunderbolt/Signal beam/Hidden power any/Shadow ball
Focus blast/thunderbolt/Signal beam/Hidden power any/Shadow ball/Destiny bond [If you're really feeling it]
EVs: 252 Speed, 252SpA, 4Hp
Nature: timid/Modest

For those of you who hate Passive [or Passive aggressive] sets, there's always good old scarfed offensive Gardevoir. Do I really need to say much about this? Switch in, use the right move for the situation, and switch out. Just put whatever moves work best for your team on it, and bring out a pokemon that outspeeds 252+ Greninja and defeat whatever you need.

Those are my reasons for why Mega Gardevoir should be AT LEAST B ranked. Sure, there's always Bullet punch Scizor, but really, why should that stop her from being ranked?

On a side note, what would happen if you were to trace trace?

 

[mcpallday]

View attachment 32569
Gardevoir: Unranked -> B
This was the most appropriate artwork for Gardevoir I could find.... and the coolest :P
There's two things that really bug me about these rankings, but I'll get to the other one after people have talked about this one. Anyways, it always bugged my that Gardevoir wasn't ranked at all. Its Psychic/Fairy typing is unique to only the Gardevoir line, and her SpA stat of 125 makes her attacks deadly without a boost, and her SpD stat of 115 means she will sometimes live a special attack [barring Greninja, among others] with little to no investment. Her speed, while somewhat low, is workable, but her Physical stats are pretty much garbage, which means Scizor will usually OHKO with Bullet punch. So what makes Gardevoir good? Her movepool outside M Gardevoir. There's many ways to run Gardevoir, so I'll list my 3 Favorite ways to run your non-mega Gardevoir:

#3 "Verlis" Tank Gardevoir [Credit to Verlisify]
Gardevoir @ Sitrus berry
Ability: Synchronize
IVs: 31 HP, Def, Spd, whatever else
Moves:
Will-o-wisp
Confuse ray
Calm mind
Draining kiss
EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4+ Spd, -Atk
Nature: calm

The point of this is to Sponge Special hits with your already great special defence, and use Will-O-Wisp to shut down any sort of Physical offence your opponent may try. Nex you fire confuse ray, and then Calm mind until your health is low and go into Draining kiss to heal. It's like Clefable, but less predictable!

#2: Choiced Destiny [Terrible name, I know :P]
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs: Pretty much the same as the last one, except 31 Speed would help
moves:
will-O-wisp
Trick
Draining kiss/moonblast
Destiny bond
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4Spa
Nature: Timid

Another troll-Esque set! this set is pretty versatile, with full EVs in speed and a choice scarf, you'll outspeed even the Greninjaiest of Greninjas. The idea is simple: Cripple your opponent. if you want freedom, you can start of with trick to give yourself more freedom at the cost of speed [Although you probably shouldn't try that on Greninja], or Will-O-wisp a physical attacker and then switch out. If your opponent taunts, [*cough*Sableye*cough*] you can go in with a scarfed moonblast and deal a serious chink of damage. but my personal favourite thing to do with this set: come into a Greninja after it KOs one of your Pokemon, and Destiny bond. that's all I have to say. This set is a Greninja counter, and even though it's sacrificial, it's one of the more aggressive Greninja counters, and [dare I say it] one of the best.


#1 Scarfdevoir
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs At least 31SpA and 31Speed
Moves:
Moonblast
Psychic
Focus blast/thunderbolt/Signal beam/Hidden power any/Shadow ball
Focus blast/thunderbolt/Signal beam/Hidden power any/Shadow ball/Destiny bond [If you're really feeling it]
EVs: 252 Speed, 252SpA, 4Hp
Nature: timid/Modest

For those of you who hate Passive [or Passive aggressive] sets, there's always good old scarfed offensive Gardevoir. Do I really need to say much about this? Switch in, use the right move for the situation, and switch out. Just put whatever moves work best for your team on it, and bring out a pokemon that outspeeds 252+ Greninja and defeat whatever you need.

Those are my reasons for why Mega Gardevoir should be AT LEAST B ranked. Sure, there's always Bullet punch Scizor, but really, why should that stop her from being ranked?

On a side note, what would happen if you were to trace trace?

Im going to go play mario now......

 

[Mr. Hothead]

View attachment 32569
snip

Thats a little too much for Garde, honestly. Such a high bump is a little too much. sadly im cringing at verlis set but w/e.

Now, here is a more appropriate ranking for it (for now)

Also, if you traced trace, you would get Trace, buddy.

Gardevoir: Unranked ----> Unranked

I honestly like that rank a little better just cause its horribly outclassed by MGarde and has horrible stats to do anything good.

 

[pwnémon]

View attachment 32569
Gardevoir: Unranked -> B
This was the most appropriate artwork for Gardevoir I could find.... and the coolest :P
There's two things that really bug me about these rankings, but I'll get to the other one after people have talked about this one. Anyways, it always bugged my that Gardevoir wasn't ranked at all. Its Psychic/Fairy typing is unique to only the Gardevoir line, and her SpA stat of 125 makes her attacks deadly without a boost, and her SpD stat of 115 means she will sometimes live a special attack [barring Greninja, among others] with little to no investment. Her speed, while somewhat low, is workable, but her Physical stats are pretty much garbage, which means Scizor will usually OHKO with Bullet punch. So what makes Gardevoir good? Her movepool outside M Gardevoir. There's many ways to run Gardevoir, so I'll list my 3 Favorite ways to run your non-mega Gardevoir:

#3 "Verlis" Tank Gardevoir [Credit to Verlisify]
Gardevoir @ Sitrus berry
Ability: Synchronize
IVs: 31 HP, Def, Spd, whatever else
Moves:
Will-o-wisp
Confuse ray
Calm mind
Draining kiss
EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4+ Spd, -Atk
Nature: calm

The point of this is to Sponge Special hits with your already great special defence, and use Will-O-Wisp to shut down any sort of Physical offence your opponent may try. Nex you fire confuse ray, and then Calm mind until your health is low and go into Draining kiss to heal. It's like Clefable, but less predictable!

#2: Choiced Destiny [Terrible name, I know :P]
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs: Pretty much the same as the last one, except 31 Speed would help
moves:
will-O-wisp
Trick
Draining kiss/moonblast
Destiny bond
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4Spa
Nature: Timid

Another troll-Esque set! this set is pretty versatile, with full EVs in speed and a choice scarf, you'll outspeed even the Greninjaiest of Greninjas. The idea is simple: Cripple your opponent. if you want freedom, you can start of with trick to give yourself more freedom at the cost of speed [Although you probably shouldn't try that on Greninja], or Will-O-wisp a physical attacker and then switch out. If your opponent taunts, [*cough*Sableye*cough*] you can go in with a scarfed moonblast and deal a serious chink of damage. but my personal favourite thing to do with this set: come into a Greninja after it KOs one of your Pokemon, and Destiny bond. that's all I have to say. This set is a Greninja counter, and even though it's sacrificial, it's one of the more aggressive Greninja counters, and [dare I say it] one of the best.


#1 Scarfdevoir
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs At least 31SpA and 31Speed
Moves:
Moonblast
Psychic
Focus blast/thunderbolt/Signal beam/Hidden power any/Shadow ball
Focus blast/thunderbolt/Signal beam/Hidden power any/Shadow ball/Destiny bond [If you're really feeling it]
EVs: 252 Speed, 252SpA, 4Hp
Nature: timid/Modest

For those of you who hate Passive [or Passive aggressive] sets, there's always good old scarfed offensive Gardevoir. Do I really need to say much about this? Switch in, use the right move for the situation, and switch out. Just put whatever moves work best for your team on it, and bring out a pokemon that outspeeds 252+ Greninja and defeat whatever you need.

Those are my reasons for why Mega Gardevoir should be AT LEAST B ranked. Sure, there's always Bullet punch Scizor, but really, why should that stop her from being ranked?

On a side note, what would happen if you were to trace trace?

Wow, true innovation do you have any more amazing sets to share I would love to know what I'm missing out out on

 

[Reverend]

#2: Choiced Destiny [Terrible name, I know :P]
Gardevoir @ Choice scarf
Ability: Trace
IVs: Pretty much the same as the last one, except 31 Speed would help
moves:
will-O-wisp
Trick
Draining kiss/moonblast
Destiny bond
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4Spa
Nature: Timid

This set is a Greninja counter, and even though it's sacrificial, it's one of the more aggressive Greninja counters, and [dare I say it] one of the best.

His story checks out, I guess we can call off the suspect test now

For content, I'd like to nominate (Mega) Sceptile => B+
Grass is a notoriously poor attacking type and this is compounded by the fact that Sceptile has to choose between Leaf Storm, which isn't spammable at all for the obvious reasons, and Giga Drain which is just piss weak. Dragon isn't the most reliable STAB either and even then Dragon Pulse's damage is unspectacular, barely OHKOing 72 hp Latias after rocks with a max roll

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 240-284 (75.2 - 89%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Lightning Rod is also an inconsistent ability, and with the exception of Rotom-W and Zapdos, you should be hesitant to switch into electric types because of the strong possibility of an HP ice. Compared to the other fast megas, it doesn't keep up momentum like Manectric and Beedrill, it doesn't have the perfect coverage, priority, and support capabilities of Lopunny, and it doesn't have the useful defensive typing and support movepool of Aerodactyl.

 

[Karxrida]

Hilariously bad sets aside, I do think normal Gardevoir is worthy of D Rank for its Scarf set. It's not the greatest thing in the world, but Trace lets it revenge Weather Sweepers, several of the faster new Megas + some S- and A-Ranks, and provide a fast Healing Wish for Offense. It can even clean lategame sometimes since Fairy is such a good STAB (especially if you Trace Sheer Force). It's pretty slow for a Scarfer at only Base 80 and having to run Timid and Focus Blast to get some revenges really sucks, but it's passable.

 

[Chaoswalker]

Thundurus brings the prankster thunderwave, but let's not forget how difficult to wall the mixed set is. Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Ice, Super power, coverage move/thunderwave can bash through most teams. It tosses out huge chunks and with knock off, psychic, and sludgewave, you can choose which checks to punish (or volt switch if you're into that). It may be A+, as Gardevoir, Landorus T, and Gengar can have similar things said about them. But the switchturn and pranksterwave give it a strong advantage over them.

Also... maybe I'm crazy sauce... but why is Latios S rank? I don't find it to be nearly as hard to dance around as the above mentioned pokemon. In fact, Heatran will step in and stop every set without the rare earthquake. It's not hard to scout out HP fire with Ferrothorn either. But what do I know? It's still a great mixed attacker with a nuke.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

Thundurus brings the prankster thunderwave, but let's not forget how difficult to wall the mixed set is. Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Ice, Super power, coverage move/thunderwave can bash through most teams. It tosses out huge chunks with knock off, psychic, and sludgewave, you can choose which checks to punish (or volt switch if you're into that). It may be A+, as Gardevoir, Landorus T, and Gengar can have similar things said about them. But the switchturn and pranksterwave give it a strong advantage over them.

Also... maybe I'm crazy sauce... but why is Latios S rank? I don't find it to be nearly as hard to dance around as the above mentioned pokemon. In fact, Heatran will step in and stop every set without the rare earthquake. It's not hard to scout out HP fire with Ferrothorn either. But what do I know? It's still a great mixed attacker with a nuke.

I also asked why its in S rank also.

Its coverage is cockblocked by most Steel types, and Fairies are starting to come out again. Sure it can run EQ but that only fixes one problem and it cant even take out Heatran iirc. It hates using HP now as it loses speed and gets taken out by base 110's. Defog is its only good thing, and now people are getting way too prepared for this thing. In fact, almost every team has something to take out Latios.

 

[trc]

Mega Lopunny to S rank

A controversial nomination, but I think it's justified. When ORAS came out, Mega Lopunny was regarded as a great Mega Pokemon, but people definitely hyped Mega Salamence, Mega Metagross, and Mega Gallade as the best of the best, and Mega Lopunny never really reached that level, but I feel that as the meta has had the time to settle. Mega Lopunny has cemented itself as a threat which I think should definitely be S rank. Mega Lopunny is one of those rare Pokemon that will always pull its weight in any matchup, whether it's against offense, balance, or stall. 405 Speed, faster than the most defining Pokemon in the game, combined with a high Attack stat and completely unresisted STAB coverage means that Mega Lopunny will always give offensive teams a hard time, as it has very few offensive switch-ins that aren't outsped and 2HKOed, even Scarf Landorus-T is worn down and can be beat by Ice Punch. However, these are all characteristics typical of an A+ Pokemon - while none are really comparable, this alone is just a fast, strong Pokemon. However, the factor that puts it in S rank in my eyes are Mega Lopunny's plentiful options in its final two moveslots, a benefit granted by its amazing neutral coverage. With these final moveslots, Mega Lopunny will always do amazing work against a variety of teams. Fake Out grants chip damage and an easy Mega. Ice Punch lures Landorus-T. Substitute is the best in my opinion though, and it is deadly with a 4th move. Mega Lopunny gets so many free Substitutes it's unbelievable, and once it is behind one, offensive teams are losing Pokemon, and defensive teams are struggling to beat it. Sub + PuP makes Mega Lopunny easily available too demolish most bulky offense and balance teams. Sub + Encore fucks up defensive teams so badly and the game is often held from that point. Sub + Baton Pass is a potent combo on many Pokemon and it gives a shitton of momentum. Sub + Toxic beats certain bulky answers anyway, hell, even Healing Wish can be used thanks to Mega Lopunny's amazing Speed. What makes me sure it is S rank as that it is one of the few Pokemon I can be prepared for, whether using offense, or balance, or stall, and always be scared of, no matter what I'm running. It will be even scarier when it can run Adamant in the Greninja-less meta. Mega Lopunny is just an amazing Pokemon in all of its aspects, and to be honest I feel like it's better than all of the Pokemon in A+ rank, so in my opinion, it should be S rank.

Mega Gallade to A rank

I actually advocated this to S rank very early in ORAS but it's pretty apparent why it shouldn't be A+ rank anymore. Mega Sableye is on every stall team, meaning the most effective Mega Gallade set against offensive teams is effectively worthless. The rise in Unaware Clefable doesn't help it either. I guess I'm not totally opposed to it being in A+ as one of my arguments initally was Mega Lopunny being better than it, but it made me compare it with other Pokemon too and I just can't see it in A+ rank in a metagame so focused around Mega Sableye.

Other things I agree with:
Hydreigon to B- (not necessarily because of its Scarf set, but because its LO set is really effective against most balance cores)
Thundurus to A+ (I expected this even when it moved up to S rank, people were just panicing about how to beat the new Mega Pokemon)
Mega Beedrill to B+
Tentacruel to B
Bronzong to C+
Gourgeist-XL to C-

I'll also make a post about the D ranks tomorrow, I kinda have a fair bit to say about them.

 

[DarkBlazeR]

I think that regular Heracross should rise to C rank, mostly because of how good the CB set is right now. Heracross is one of the few fighting types that can beat Mega Sableye, thanks to the threat of a Guts boosted STAB Megahorn. With a set of Megahorn/Close Combat/Knock Off/Facade and good prediction it can put in some serious work versus defensive teams, as it is capable of OHKOing/2HKOing everything commonly found on stall with the right move. It can form an integral part of a team looking to break down certain walls and to act as a status absorber, and has the crucial advantage over Mega Heracross in that it doesn't fill your Mega slot. Sleep Talk is an option if you want something to switch into Spore, but I prefer Facade because it lets you OHKO Bold Clefable after SR and one layer of Spikes and 2HKO Impish Landorus-T after SR.