Resource Don't Use That, Use This Instead

[Punchshroom]

I did use Shadow Claw (before the tier shifts), but it's not as consistent as Steel Wing, since prediction is needed to hit its target. Defensive Bold Xatus shrug off Shadow Claw, while offensive Xatus will still bring Leavanny down to its Sash, with the latter not getting Web down or worse, has it set up on its own field. You can freely Sticky Web regardless of Cryo's presence, and if Cryo tries to be cheeky and switches into Leavanny, you OHKO with Steel Wing and either keep your Web as it breaks your Sash, or retain enough health from a shit weak Rapid Spin to set Web up later. It's much more practical to simply run a Pursuit trapper to deal with Xatu. I wouldn't have needed to run Steel Wing on Leavanny if Tomb were still around to spinblock and trap Cryo as well, but you know....

 

[Martin]

Don't use this:

Carbink @ Light Clay / Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Light Screen / Reflect / Trick Room
- Light Screen / Reflect / Moonblast
- Explosion

Why it's bad: Carbink is good at these roles on paper, but it is outclassed by Uxie in both of these roles. This is because Uxie has Memento, better all-around bulk (no base 50 HP), and has generally better typing. This means that it can do both roles a lot better than Carbink can ever hope to do. Furthermore, Carbink is setup fodder to anything that isn't weak to Moonblast and can tank an uninvested Explosion - unlike Uxie who has pleanty of supportive options in Knock Off and Memento to stop things from simply setting up on it.

Use this:

Carbink @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Moonblast

Why it's better: This is a far better use of Carbink. With Spiritomb gone, it is not outclassed in this role by anything, and the only competition it faces as a physically defensive Calm Mind + RestTalk Pokémon is Misdreavus, and they both have niches over one another that they instead live in competition instead of one completely eclipsing the others. The things that Carbink has over Misdreavus are its ability to hold an item other than Eviolite and not being weak to Knock Off, but where it falls short compared to it is that it has far less offensive presence, meaning that it needs to boost more times before it can deal heavy damage to the opposing team.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't use this:

Mismagius @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute

just in case your wondering, the EVs outpace timid Mesprit

Why it's bad: Mismagius is outclassed as a Calm Mind user. It is nowhere near bulky enough to pull it off, and it is outclassed in the role of Sub+CM. Furthermore, why bother running Mismagius for Calm Mind when its best off running Nasty Plot and sweeping? It is outclassed other roles by pleanty of things in the tier, and Nasty Plot is the biggest reason to use it. Furthermore, the set is more successful at spinblocking as it can outpace and defeat all of the tiers Rapid Spinners bar Cryogonal if it comes in with the correct prediction as it can come in at full health, take a Knock Off and then one shot with Shadow Ball (reference calcs below).

NP Mismagius vs Spinners Calcs

• +2 252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Sandslash: 364-429 (108.9 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• +2 252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandslash: 364-429 (102.8 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• +2 252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kabutops: 300-354 (114.9 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• +2 252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Avalugg: 408-481 (103.8 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• +2 252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Torkoal: 298-352 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
• +2 252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Armaldo: 270-318 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Use this:

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball

Why it's better: Misdreavus is far bulkier than Mismagius due to the Eviolite and, with Spiritomb gone, it is no longer outclassed by anything in the tier. This means that Misdreavus has found a niche in a "CroDreavus" set. People often put Misdreavus down due to Knock Off, saying that this means that there is no reason to use it over its older sister Mismagius, but then completely forget that Mismagius can't take a Knock Off either, forcing it to run a berry to reliably spinblock, and giving it the same flaws as Misdreavus'. Misdreavus isn't complete dead weight without its Eviolite either, as its stats are nothing to scoff at - especially in a tier such as NU - and, if it has enough calm minds up, it can cripple a lot of the tier with just Shadow Ball.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't use this:

Mismagius @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split
- Heal Bell / Taunt

Why it's bad: Like I said before, Mismagius has better things to be doing. Its little sister can handle its viable roles that aren't Nasty Plot as it is simply better at doing them. I probably don't need to elaborate any further here as you can pretty much just re-read the previous "why its bad" statement and replace all "CM" mentions with defensive.

Use this:

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball / Foul Play
- Pain Split
- Heal Bell / Taunt

Why it's better: Once again, Misdreavus is far bulkier due to Eviolite. The EV spread I've given lets you outpace and burn jolly Cacturne, forgoing its Sucker Punch and then scouting to see if its mixed, spikes or SD using Taunt. There isn't really much else to say tbh. I covered a lot of the reasons why Misdreavus is better in roles not called Nasty Plot when explaining Mismagius a while ago.

 

[smelliott]

Don't use this:
Use this:

Carbink @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Moonblast

Why it's better: This is a far better use of Carbink. With Spiritomb gone, it is not outclassed in this role by anything, and the only competition it faces as a physically defensive Calm Mind + RestTalk Pokémon is Misdreavus, and they both have niches over one another that they instead live in competition instead of one completely eclipsing the others. The things that Carbink has over Misdreavus are its ability to hold an item other than Eviolite and not being weak to Knock Off, but where it falls short compared to it is that it has far less offensive presence, meaning that it needs to boost more times before it can deal heavy damage to the opposing team.

The Carbink set you posted before is the post effective/viable Carbink set. Calm Mind is not a very good option at all for Carbink. It possesses a meager base 50 special attack stat, an unwanted 4x weakness to steel (aka creamy bullet punch destroys it), and a very unattractive weakness to Feraligatr, since it is a) destroys Carbink with STAB waterfall b) sets up in its face.

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ground]/[Fire]
- Dazzling Gleam

Uxie @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Dazzling Gleam

Mesprit has an obvious superiority when it comes to using Calm Mind. Mesprit boasts a wide special movepool, a groovy hairdo, and 80/105/105 defenses. Additionally, it has no obvious flaws like Carbink does, as Carbink, as mentioned before, dies instantly to Metal Claw. Uxie is another option as a RestTalk Calm Mind variant, being a much faster pokemon (not like it matters) but also brings some nice and meaty 75/130/130 defenses to the party. Meaning with the boosts in spdef along with the defense boosting nature and ev spread it can be quite difficult to stop making it quite the nice and powerful threat.

 

[Martin]

The Carbink set you posted before is the post effective/viable Carbink set. Calm Mind is not a very good option at all for Carbink. It possesses a meager base 50 special attack stat, an unwanted 4x weakness to steel (aka creamy bullet punch destroys it), and a very unattractive weakness to Feraligatr, since it is a) destroys Carbink with STAB waterfall b) sets up in its face.

actually, the CM Carbink set is on the analysis while the other set was shoved in OO. That is because its outclassed by uxie. I should have probably just done carbink to uxie now that i think about it, but whatever.

 

[Shuckleking87]

On my phone, but crodrevius is bad, not too strong, set up bait, and cannot hit normal types. Cm mismagius is much better as a anti stall poke than rest talk misdreavus because of coverage and leftovers(not colber, I'd only use colber on np mismagius)

 

[Punchshroom]

The Carbink set you posted before is the post effective/viable Carbink set. Calm Mind is not a very good option at all for Carbink. It possesses a meager base 50 special attack stat, an unwanted 4x weakness to steel (aka creamy bullet punch destroys it), and a very unattractive weakness to Feraligatr, since it is a) destroys Carbink with STAB waterfall b) sets up in its face.

What Carbink does have is useful resistances to Normal, Flying, Fire, and Dark while not possessing a Fighting weakness, letting it wall things like Pyroar, Typhlosion, Magmortar, Kangaskhan, and Zangoose. Its mono-STAB also has no immunities, meaning it can use RestTalk for status immunity (also lets it continue checking the aforementioned threats) instead of hiding behind Substitutes like Uxie, which does not have reliable recovery so it cannot be spammed much mid-game.

 

[smelliott]

What Carbink does have is useful resistances to Normal, Flying, Fire, and Dark while not possessing a Fighting weakness, letting it wall things like Pyroar, Typhlosion, Magmortar, Kangaskhan, and Zangoose. Its mono-STAB also has no immunities, meaning it can use RestTalk for status immunity (also lets it continue checking the aforementioned threats) instead of hiding behind Substitutes like Uxie, which does not have reliable recovery so it cannot be spammed much mid-game.

I can agree with that actually it's typing is good for a large amounts of threats within the tier along with its recovery option although the 50 special attack stat lets it down a large amount along with its special move pool not being that great other than power gem, moonblast and hidden power unless it can get to +3 or +4 where it can start dealing a good amount of damage I don't believe it's that great a set

 

[ryan]

There are a lot of sets being posted here that aren't bad at all. I'm going to go over some of them and explain why they aren't bad but might be niche.

RestTalk Carbink:
Although others have already covered this pretty well, it's a fine set. Carbink's base 50 Special Attack doesn't matter when you can quite easily set up to +6 on a variety of Pokemon. I've been using this guy in PU, and while I don't feel it is as good there as it is in NU (checks a lot more scary stuff in NU), the lack of power was never relevant. Definitely try this little dude out before dismissing it.

Life Orb Nasty Plot Mismagius:
Probably its best set right now. Without Spiritomb in the tier, Mismagius doesn't need Colbur Berry, as there is a lot less Sucker Punch flying around now. The extra power from Life Orb is incredibly relevant because its STAB is a meager 80 Base Power, and its best coverage move, Dazzling Gleam, is as well. Although I don't feel like running a ton of calcs to find where Life Orb becomes useful at +2, I'm certain that some exist. More importantly, Life Orb allows Mismagius to hit harder without having to set up. I still like Life Orb Haunter better, but Life Orb Mismagius is fine. Destiny Bond on Nasty Plot is also fine, but Thunderbolt is stronger generic coverage than Dazzling Gleam and probably has its uses.

SubCM Mismagius:
You're actually right that this set isn't the best, but RestTalk CM Misdreavus is not a good replacement for it because it is also not good. If you want a bulky Ghost-type for your team, there are much better options, including bulky Rotom, Gourgeist, and stallbreaker Mismagius. Speaking of which:

Stallbreaker Mismagius:
This is a great set. For anyone confused about what I'm referring to here, I'm talking about the Shadow Ball / Will-O-Wisp / Taunt / Pain Split set. This set is still done decently well by Misdreavus, but it doesn't mind Knock Off as much and has passive recovery with Leftovers and better Speed. You should also run more Speed on this set. Mismagius's main niche in this role is its great Speed, and not utilizing that doesn't make much sense to me. How much Speed you run is up to you and what your team needs, but outrunning Adamant Kabutops is a good start, as this set makes for a fine spinblocker.

Offensive Armaldo:
I agree that this set is almost entirely outclassed by Kabutops, but it does have a niche on rain teams for being able to deal with bulky Grass-types with its STAB X-Scissor. Still, the most common Grass-types in NU are Ferroseed and Vileplume, which are both neutral to Bug, so generally speaking, Kabutops will still be better. But even being able to OHKO offensive Grass-types reliably is pretty nice. You also don't forfeit the ability to handle things like Mantine which are a pain for rain teams. Probably most importantly, Armaldo is not weak to Grass or Electric, which is pretty hard to cover on rain. This one is probably only good on very specific builds of rain, but even so, it's not completely useless. I'd also probably just use SD / Aqua Tail / X-Scissor / Stone Edge. Kabutops is generally the better choice for a Rapid Spin user as well, but even without the extra resistances, Armaldo's superior bulk can come in handy.

My biggest advice here is to use common sense when you're suggesting things. If you've never tested something or it isn't quite obviously bad like Assault Vest Chatot, don't automatically assume that it is a bad set. NU is a place where a lot of things work, and sets that might look weird to you could actually be quite good.

 

[Kiyo]

Don't use this:

Carbink @ Light Clay / Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Light Screen / Reflect / Trick Room
- Light Screen / Reflect / Moonblast
- Explosion

Why it's bad: Carbink is good at these roles on paper, but it is outclassed by Uxie in both of these roles. This is because Uxie has Memento, better all-around bulk (no base 50 HP), and has generally better typing. This means that it can do both roles a lot better than Carbink can ever hope to do. Furthermore, Carbink is setup fodder to anything that isn't weak to Moonblast and can tank an uninvested Explosion - unlike Uxie who has pleanty of supportive options in Knock Off and Memento to stop things from simply setting up on it.

Use this:

Carbink @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Moonblast

Why it's better: This is a far better use of Carbink. With Spiritomb gone, it is not outclassed in this role by anything, and the only competition it faces as a physically defensive Calm Mind + RestTalk Pokémon is Misdreavus, and they both have niches over one another that they instead live in competition instead of one completely eclipsing the others. The things that Carbink has over Misdreavus are its ability to hold an item other than Eviolite and not being weak to Knock Off, but where it falls short compared to it is that it has far less offensive presence, meaning that it needs to boost more times before it can deal heavy damage to the opposing team.

It's like you people don't understand the point of this thread, while i do agree you should be using the second Carbink set I think it should be noted that the previous set does have a purpose. the person using these sets put them on a team for a reason, and they probably want to use something that fulfills the same role. You mentioned Uxie does the job better but you didnt leave the set details or a more detailed explanation. like you missed out on the whole point of the thread right there. It's like xzern's original OP that had AV mantine and Specs Lanturn, those things do completely different things and you shouldnt suggest one over the other in this type of thread because you're trying to keep the role similar. I'm not saying don't change the movesets for mons in this thread, for example the early posts of 252 hp vs 252 spdef on av hariyama dont change the role of the set yet still improve it over things people are running. not to single gamer boy out but he made a pretty good example

tl;dr Like at least be intelligent about your posts and don't spam the thread just because its the thread of the week or w.e and ur tryna get a cc badge or a ladybug.

EDIT: another good example

The Carbink set you posted before is the post effective/viable Carbink set. Calm Mind is not a very good option at all for Carbink. It possesses a meager base 50 special attack stat, an unwanted 4x weakness to steel (aka creamy bullet punch destroys it), and a very unattractive weakness to Feraligatr, since it is a) destroys Carbink with STAB waterfall b) sets up in its face.

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ground]/[Fire]
- Dazzling Gleam

Uxie @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Dazzling Gleam

Mesprit has an obvious superiority when it comes to using Calm Mind. Mesprit boasts a wide special movepool, a groovy hairdo, and 80/105/105 defenses. Additionally, it has no obvious flaws like Carbink does, as Carbink, as mentioned before, dies instantly to Metal Claw. Uxie is another option as a RestTalk Calm Mind variant, being a much faster pokemon (not like it matters) but also brings some nice and meaty 75/130/130 defenses to the party. Meaning with the boosts in spdef along with the defense boosting nature and ev spread it can be quite difficult to stop making it quite the nice and powerful threat.

these mons serve two different roles on 2 different team archetypes, and you dont even have the best Uxie set (seriously people stop running fucking rest talk on everything) one is a defensive pivot that can set up on bulkier teams, and one acts as a wallbreaker for offensive or balanced teams. they really shouldnt be compared unless ur making note of the fact theyre both in the same legendary trio or w.e

 

[Fluze3]

Don't use this:

Ludicolo @ Life Orb / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance / Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam

Why it's bad: This set is not bad and arguably still its best set. It's speed is very nice under rain and it has the ability to run a modest nature. But, personally, with the adding of Kabutops (who, run Adamant), it needs to be able to outspeed and OHKO it with Giga Drain. This has actually become REALLY important because Kabutops is a top-tier threat under rain. Use this set when Kabutops isn't an issue. It also adds the ability to outspeed many common threats with a Neutral nature.
Use this instead:

Ludicolo @ Life Orb / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
TIMID Nature
- Rain Dance / Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam

Why it's better: Without Kabutops, this thing would NEVER run a Timid Nature. at +2, it can outspeed everything it needs to. But, it does not outspeed +2 >70 base speed or +1 base 100s and up. With a Timid nature and rain, it reaches 524 speed; which means that under rain, this thing can outspeed most common scarfers: including Scyther, Pyroar, Raichu and Zebstrika. It can also outspeed +2 +spe Barbaracle (quite a niche) and other threats. It also outspeeds Kabutops under rain; considering that every Kabutops runs Adamant. However, the power difference is noticeable. It depends on if you want to take out common threats easier or if you want more power. Also, the added speed helps it outspeed stuff under trick room (base 70 is ok)

Here are some calcs (done without SR for comparison of damage output):
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino in Rain: 238-281 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino in Rain: 218-257 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The power difference isn't the biggest change, but it can determine a 2HKO from an OHKO, a 3HKO from a 2HKO, etc.

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 160-188 (51.1 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 144-172 (46 - 54.9%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO

The damage is rather noticeable, but it depends on how much you think the power difference matters.

 

[Scarf Buck]

Don't use this:

Ludicolo @ Life Orb / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance / Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam

Why it's bad: This set is not bad and arguably still its best set. It's speed is very nice under rain and it has the ability to run a modest nature. But, personally, with the adding of Kabutops (who, run Adamant), it needs to be able to outspeed and OHKO it with Giga Drain. This has actually become REALLY important because Kabutops is a top-tier threat under rain. Use this set when Kabutops isn't an issue. It also adds the ability to outspeed many common threats with a Neutral nature.
Use this instead:

Ludicolo @ Life Orb / Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
TIMID Nature
- Rain Dance / Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam

Why it's better: Without Kabutops, this thing would NEVER run a Timid Nature. at +2, it can outspeed everything it needs to. But, it does not outspeed +2 >70 base speed or +1 base 100s and up. With a Timid nature and rain, it reaches 524 speed; which means that under rain, this thing can outspeed most common scarfers: including Scyther, Pyroar, Raichu and Zebstrika. It can also outspeed +2 +spe Barbaracle (quite a niche) and other threats. It also outspeeds Kabutops under rain; considering that every Kabutops runs Adamant. However, the power difference is noticeable. It depends on if you want to take out common threats easier or if you want more power. Also, the added speed helps it outspeed stuff under trick room (base 70 is ok)

Here are some calcs (done without SR for comparison of damage output):
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino in Rain: 238-281 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino in Rain: 218-257 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The power difference isn't the biggest change, but it can determine a 2HKO from an OHKO, a 3HKO from a 2HKO, etc.

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 160-188 (51.1 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 144-172 (46 - 54.9%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO

The damage is rather noticeable, but it depends on how much you think the power difference matters.

your sets are missing 252 ev's in speed .-.

 

[Blast]

Fluze3 Again, you're missing the point of this thread. Why are you listing sets that you specifically stated yourself to be viable and generally down to preference? Sets that belong in this thread go into the category that shouldn't be used basically ever, while at the same time being common enough to actually warrant recognition. If Modest Ludicolo is a good option (which you literally stated it to be yourself) then why are you basically telling people that it should never be used (which you are doing by posting it here) ?_?

Btw Mystic Water is bad too lol, it makes its coverage way too weak

Anyway I have some noms too:

Don't use this:

Crustle @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rock Blast
- X-Scissor

Why it's bad: Despite Crustle's promising-looking Defense stat, it's works terribly as a defensive hazard stacker due to its bad typing. Bug / Rock leaves it with very little resistances other than Normal and Poison which makes it difficult to stack hazards consistently throughout the match, especially when combined with its Stealth Rock weakness. Also, it's both setup fodder and Taunt bait with its weak offenses, which just adds to its already massive list of cons.

Use this instead:

Crustle @ Red Card / Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rock Blast
- Knock Off / Earthquake

This Crustle is far more consistent as its much less reliant on its defensive prowess to stack hazards, due to being able to stack them early-game. Its typing is much less of an issue as its being used as a lead and can get up hazards much more reliably against slower SR leads thanks to its higher emphasis on Speed. Its item choice is also far more variable: it can run Red Card to shuffle things out and potentially get another layer up / prevents from being set up on, or Mental Herb to get around Taunt at least once.

 

[smelliott]

Don't use this:

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Hp / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane / Air Slash
- Scald
- U-Turn

Why it's bad: Despite Pelipper's promising-looking Defense stat, it's works terribly as an offensive Defogger due to it's bad offensive and speed stats compared to swanna. flying/water leaves it with a very large weakness to common fast electric types such as electivire and rotom. other than that it's bad speed makes it difficult to get a defog off consistently when it's needed, especially when combined with its 25% damage taken from rocks. Also, it does a much better job as a defensive defogger and is basically wasted as an offensive defogger. (check my pelipper analysis for a good set eyyy creamy plug)


Use This Instead:

Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Hp / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane / Air Slash
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Roost

Why it's better: Swanna having a much better speed stat and 2 more points in special attack making it a much better offensive defogger than pelipper, pelipper may have better defensive stats but swanna can be better because of it's speed stat. it can outspeed common threats such as: kangaskhan, lilligant and zangoose and get a large chunk of damage or even a possible scald burn.

THIS IS FOR OFFENSIVE DEFOGGING IF YOU WANT DEFENSIVE USE IT THE OPPOSITE WAY AROUND EYYY LMAO

 

[Aladyyn]

Who even uses offensive Pelipper?

Also for the Ludicolo post, it's pretty much worthless because Kabutops' on non-rain teams are usually Jolly so you lose to those anyway so it's not worth it and you should get a real check like Seismitoad if you're that worried about Kabutops.

 

[xzern]

Who even uses offensive Pelipper?

people that dont know what they're doing

Hide

versilify

 

[ryan]

Raseri also uses offensive Pelipper. :)

 

[Brawlfest]

Raseri also uses offensive Pelipper. :)

Clearly undeserving of tier leader no wonder he got dropped to "Co". hehe bwoi :]

 

[smelliott]

smelliott's back with another amazing post except this time relevant and doing what any good smogon user should do.

hate on verlisify's garbage sets:]]


Please for the sake of the world and children do not use this.

Hypno @ Assault Vest
Ability: Insomnia
EVS: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Power Up Punch
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch

Why it's bad: Hypno might appeal as a good Assault Vest user with it's high special defense stat but truth be told it's actually not, as a physically offensive AV user it is completely outclassed by hariyama and kangaskhan, it's only really viable set is T-Wave, S-Toss and that isn't exactly useable with an assault vest, it's got far too much support moves which are completely wasted by using this set.

Use this Instead.

Kangkaskhan @ Assault Vest/ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVS: 252 Hp / 252 Attack / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Power Up Punch / Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Double Edge / Return
- Fake Out

Why it's better: Kangaskhan itself boasts a much better speed and attack stat along with all around stats being a much better option for a physically offensive assault vest user, it's improved speed stat allows it to outspeed most walls, with it's ability scrappy it isn't walled by ghosts, it's not been covered by verlisify, mentioning silk scarf due to it's large usage and capability packing a. Much bigger punch with double edge/return.


Credit to cancerous user xzern for bringing up more cancerous user verlisify and giving me the idea to cover this.

 

[marilli]

pls don't advertise attention seekers, you could do it without linking the youtube video

 

[xzern]

pls don't advertise attention seekers, you could do it without linking the youtube video

It looks more like he's doing the exact opposite of advertising versilify, aka shitting on his sets.
He linked the video as a reference to the set.

smelliott's back with another amazing post except this time relevant and doing what any good smogon user should do.

hate on verlisify's garbage sets:]]

 

[Kiyo]

Figured since I talk shit about this thread so much I might as well contribute to make it better, there's a couple of small things I'd like to point out that can improve some lesser used mons. These are things that I consider to serve the purpose of the thread and actually be useful.

Steelix

Don't Use This:

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Roar

Why It's Bad:
To be completely honest you don't need any extra physical bulk on Steelix, you hit 436 defense uninvested. The pokemon you're typically trying to switch Steelix into are things like Slurpuff, Scyther, Sneasel, Klinklang, Granbull, Archeops, etc. my point is you're still not getting 2HKO'd and you're not going to be able to hit back reasonably hard if you're running 0 Atk EVs.

Use This Instead:

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Protect / Roar

Why It's Better:
You're still gonna be tanking all the same hits with this spread, but with the investment in attack you can actually do some damage to things. I'm way too lazy to post calcs but obviously this thing is going to be hitting harder. I really like running protect in the last slot on Steelix for a number of reasons. You're able to scout which moves choice locked pokemon will lock themselves into (some good examples are Typhlosion and Sawk) and in my experience the things that are setting up on you typically force you out already or do big dommage to you if you stay in to roar them, you also get extra Leftovers recovery every now and then which can literally be the game changing factor sometimes. Basically my nigga Omfuga told me to run this set once in BW RU and I've been in love ever since. If theres a mon with a really pointless last move or I can't run a tech to lure a threat to my team I'll typically run Protect in the last slot as it comes in handy so much.

Exeggutor

Don't Use This:

Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Why It's Bad:
To be completely honest Exeggutor is too slow to take advantage of the extra HP gained from sitrus berry as it's more than likely going to get 2HKO'd anyways, it's far too weak to common attacking types such as flying, ice, fire, and dark. If you're going to run Sitrus Berry at all it better be on a set with substitute, or on a more defensive build of Exeggutor (which i can only see working on like sun stall unless you're building around it).

Use This Instead:

Exeggutor @ Yache Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Why It's Better:
Yache Berry allows you to beat Feraligatr, this is really important for Eggy because it frees up your teambuilding (you don't have to run another grass type or something else specifically to beat gatr) and the fact that you've got one of the best pokes in the tier covered is pretty awesome. I would also consider HP Fighting on this set for a number of reasons: Ferroseed isn't as common as it used to be and still can't touch you, you're now able to touch Probopass, and you can BOP pawniards that otherwise might try to switch in or live an HP Fire.

My explanations are shit cuz it's midnight and I'm lazy so yeah.

 

[xzern]

as you all know this was project of the week last week and I'm supposed to pick a best contributor n_n everything in life is a competition smh

i decided that the best contributor would be: Hollywood. it was a tough decision because a lot of contributions were amazing but i picked him because he had posted quite a few quality posts.

Raseri should put his name somewhere soon

As for everyone else please don't get discouraged, keep posting, you are all stars and you gave me a hard time picking so that's great :v

I'll update the OP after i finish this hot pocket

 

[Aladyyn]

Smh was too lazy to post earlier so I am not the best :C

Don't use that:

Magmortar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

While in theory, bypassing Magmortar's low speed by slapping a Choice Scarf on it sounds like a good idea, it doesn't work very well in practice. Magmortar's biggest asset is its wide coverage and that quality is practically destroyed by using a Choice item on it. The added speed doesn't help either, as it is unable to revenge kill dangerous setup sweepers such as Vivillon and Lilligant (unlike better scarfers). Meanwhile, the loss of a boosting item prevents Magmortar from wallbreaking effectively so you're basically throwing away Magmortar's best qualities in an attempt to fix its weakness which results in a very awkward mix that doesn't actually accomplish anything worthwhile.

(also pls don't use AV Magmortar I faced it once and I don't want to repeat the traumatic experience)

Use this instead:

Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast

Typhlosion can take on the role of a Scarfer much better than Magmortar thanks to its higher speed and reliance mostly on spamming fire type moves in Eruption and Fire Blast. Base 100 speed is fast enough to outspeed most pokemon even at +1 (Vivillon, Lilligant, Modest Ludicolo in rain, Modest Accelgor, most scarfers). This makes Typhlosion much more useful against offensive teams in comparison to Magmortar.

If you want to use Magmortar, use this:

Magmortar @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Hidden Power [Ice]

This set takes advantage of Magmortar's coverage and power, allowing it to break even pokemon that other fire types have trouble dealing with - Dragalge, Ninetales, Lanturn, Seismitoad/Altaria depending on HP of choice and all that without having to lock itself into any particular move. LO Fire Blast puts a huge dent into everything that doesn't resist it and is a super safe move to spam. While Magmortar might lack the speed of Typhlosion or Pyroar, it fills a very different role on a team and should not be used the same way those aforementioned fire types are.

 

[bb skarm]

Just saying, when you're comparing two versions of a Pokemon, you need to make sure they're both performing the same or similar role, or it basically is like saying "why eat apple when you can eat tomato?"

Anyways, I think this may add something to the thread at least, or at least it's been working nice for me.

Don't use this:

Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch

Why it's bad:

I'm not going to say something stupid and say this is bad. This is literally the standard set for Gudurr, so it isn't really /bad/. If you're using this, that's not really bad at all. But, of course, there's an alternative.

Instead, use this:

Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch

Why it's better:

Gurdurr is really, really slow. The given EV spread of course maxes out Attack, but I've changed the Speed EVs and HP EVs. 168 HP EVs are for bulk, but 84 Speed EVs outspeed minimum Speed Vileplume, minimum Speed Dragalge, Hariyama, Muk, Regirock, Lickilicky, Audino, Piloswine, Granbull, Crustle, Golem, and Armaldo.

Of those, the really notable ones are Vileplume, Dragalge, Lickilicky, and Audino. You can shut down Lickilicky and Audino from wish-passing, knock off Vileplume's Black Sludge, and same for Dragalge.

You can run 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe to outspeed Gourgeist-XL, but I think giving up on the bulk isn't all that great.

 

[MQJinx]

being a necro but there are still a number of things wrong with the usage stats

Don't use:

Sandslash @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Any move other than Knock Off

According to November's usage statistics, 25% of all Sandslash did not run Knock Off. This is a huge mistake, as now Sandslash will be walled by Ghost-types, and get burned by Will-O-Wisp. Since spinners are supposed to be prepared to deal with ghosts, this Sandslash can't do its job well.

Use this instead:

Sandslash @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Knock Off

With Knock Off, Sandslash now has a way to get past all of the Ghost-types that used to wall it. It can also remove Eviolites from unsuspecting mons like Ferroseed and Scyther, enabling the team to break through them more easily. Toxic is also usable over Stealth Rock if you want to have a way of dealing with Gourgeist. You can also run a more offensive set with Lum Berry and Swords Dance to give it a secondary use after it is done spinning.