OU Lopunny [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

[OrbitingDeath]

**Choice Scarfers and faster attackers** : Choice Scarf users like Landorus-T, Keldeo, Latios and Garchomp as well as faster Pokemon such as Mega-Aerodactyl, Mega-Alakazam, and Mega can outspeed it and take it out without too much difficulty too. However, all of these get worn down considerably by Fake Out and cannot always reliably switch in.

Missing a pokemon's name there

 

[craing ;_;]

can someone tell me why adamant is bad on mega lopunny? my argument lies on the assumption that gren will be banned soon, which is really the only key threat that is needed to be outsped with jolly. weavile are just going to shard to get off damage, torn-t only run enough speed for scarftar, ddnite is borderline unviable this meta, mega gyara are primarily jolly instead of adamant, and dd mega altaria are for the most part bulky dd variants which you still outspeed at +1. the only cases i've seen where jolly would be good for is outspeeding mons with a +speed nature below base 105 pre-mega if lacking fake out, outspeeding scarf goth and ton, and speed-tieing with opposing mega lopunny and manectric. the extra power provided by adamant is immensely useful and i feel that forgoing the speed that helps only during those scenarios is worth it to achieve crucial ohkos/2hkos.

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252+ Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 270-318 (97.4 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 135-159 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 159-187 (43.8 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 229-270 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 195-229 (45.1 - 53%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 306-361 (95.3 - 112.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 223-264 (92.5 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 78-93 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 198-234 (71.4 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

just some calcs at the top of my head, though in general i feel that adamant is kind of worth it. at the very least, slash it with jolly unless someone can prove me otherwise.

 

[Jukain]

when gren is banned adamant becomes a solid option, i wouldn't run it with gren in the meta though. gren won't be banned for some weeks and we have to continue with the analysis as if it is still in the metagame, regardless of whether it is expected to be banned or not.

 

[TaBuu]

small nitpick
"Walled by most physically defensive Pokemon and overral rather ineffective against defensive teams."
Don't the Substitute variants mitigate this as Substitute + PuP/Encore really hinder their ability to effectively handle MLopunny?

 

[Shurtugal]

While Healing Wish looks good on paper, I haven't found it all useful, but perhaps that's just because I haven't built a team with a Healing Wish Lopunny in mind (mine really benefits on the coverage Ice Punch gives a lot). Even still, though, on a solid HO, I'd say that's worth the slash - but what is Toxic doing? I'd think even PuP would be a better slash than that (because that allows you to break so much more stuff). On paper, you can lure Clefables and Quags and Slowbro or whatever it is you'd like, but Lopunny is a Pokemon that fits on HO more, and Toxic on HO, a playstyle with such few turns, doesn't seem too idealistic to me. That said, I haven't tested Toxic or Healing Wish, so I don't speak from experience (but I do speak as a Lopunny-user experience in general).

The SubPass looks really sketchy. Opinions from others who have used that set, please? (On the other hand, SubPuP looks amazing, or even SubEncore.) (Also, if you don't use Shiny Lopunny, she'll miss every HJK.)

 

[Politoad]

Cofagrigus should definitely be mentioned in Checks & Counters, as it switches in, takes a High Jump Kick / Return / Ice Punch with no effort and removes Lopunny's ability with Mummy, and Cofagrigus can continue by burning it after, leaving a super weak Lopunny. I feel like it should get a seperate mention there.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Cofagrigus should definitely be mentioned in Checks & Counters, as it switches in, takes a High Jump Kick / Return / Ice Punch with no effort and removes Lopunny's ability with Mummy, and Cofagrigus can continue by burning it after, leaving a super weak Lopunny. I feel like it should get a seperate mention there.

The issue is that cofagrigus is nowhere near relevant or common enough to warrant its own slot in c&c.

 

[Politoad]

The issue is that cofagrigus is nowhere near relevant or common enough to warrant its own slot in c&c.

It does have an analysis though so it probably is p viable.

 

[Kurona]

Cofag is D-rank on the viability thread for the pure reason of trolling physical attackers with Mummy. I'd give it a little mention in physical walls or something because it does do a specific unique task.
edit: wait never mind that's what you've done anyway in that case I don't think it deserves a complete special mention; it is essentially just a physical wall with a unique trait that makes it a little worth mentioning in physical walls but nothing more.

 

[Kurona]

By the way, I'd give a mention as to what Jolly outspeeds that Adamant doesn't, i.e. positive speed nature max invested base 119 and above, as well as scarfers/+1s between 63 and 73.

 

[Alfalfa]

I do not think Cofagrigus is even worth mentioning. While it completely screws over Mega Lopunny, it is incredibly niche and limited to very few teams; however, if it was the only available counter, then we could consider it, but Pokemon like Chesnaught, Cresselia, and Slowbro are all capable of staving off Mega Lopunny's attacks and hitting it super effectively with their STABs.

 

[havokchomp123]

I do not think Cofagrigus is even worth mentioning. While it completely screws over Mega Lopunny, it is incredibly niche and limited to very few teams; however, if it was the only available counter, then we could consider it, but Pokemon like Chesnaught, Cresselia, and Slowbro are all capable of staving off Mega Lopunny's attacks and hitting it super effectively with their STABs.

I suppose you have a point there; however, I don't think there's any harm in at least putting it in Checks and Counters to add more to the analysis. It's not that common, but giving it a mention will not hurt the analysis.

 

[Albacore]

What do people think of giving PuP+Encore and PuP+Heal Bell their own sets? These are Lopunny's most effective sets against stall.
PuP+Encore is able to take advantage of stuff like Hippowdon, Skamory and Celebi (which are generally used as answers to Lopunny) as they recover health or use an utility move, and unlike the Sub set the opponent can't just switch out and switch back in and beat it because Lopunny will be at +2 by the time it does that, and unless his answer to MLop is either Unaware Clefable or Quagsire it's taking a lot of damage.
PuP+Heal Bell is similar to Sub+PuP but it's actually better against stall since you can actually switch in on Status users (particularly MSableye) instead of relying on Sub to protect you from it and don't have to win 50/50s between the opponent attacking or statusing you, and tricking the opponent into thinking you've been permanently disabled by burn prompts him to play more passively and do stuff like defog, get rocks up, or attempt to wishpass on it, at which point you can remove burn and put the opponent in a really bad position because he'll have to find something that can switch into +1 MLop. And the team support provided by Heal Bell is also really nice.

I've used both sets and I find them to be very good but I'd like some QC input before I include them on the analysis.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Maybe make one major set based on Power-Up Punch with Encore and Heal Bell as alternative options in the last moveslot? Both sets seem pretty effective, but while they might not play exactly the same, it would seem a little bloated to have two separate Power-Up Punch sets for which only the last moveslot differs.

 

[AM]

Yeah the Drain Punch sets that Albacore is talking about are highly effective with myself using PuP + Heal Bell a lot for its consistency as a standalone attacker and team-mate in the case of Heal Bell. It's definitely not an OO kind of set because of its improved consistency against both Balanced and Stall builds. It's just dual STAB, Encore / Heal Bell, PuP for reference sake btw.

 

[Albacore]

put PuP between Fake Out and Sub b/c imo it's better than the Sub set, but Fake Out is still the best set overall because it's the easiest one to use and is the most effective at doing what Lopunny does best (ie : making offensive teams cry). Once again would like input on this.

 

[DiddlySquat]

Minor nitpick on the PuP set:
"Notably, it 2HKOs Skarmory after Stealth Rocks and at +1 it guarantees a 2HKO on Hippowdon and Celebi, (though these are already hit very hard with a Jolly nature), and enables you to 2HKO Chesnaught without having to use High Jump Kick and risk losing half your health to a King's Shield."

Chesnaught wish it had King's Shield. It has Spiky Shield ;3

 

[Machi]

put PuP between Fake Out and Sub b/c imo it's better than the Sub set, but Fake Out is still the best set overall because it's the easiest one to use and is the most effective at doing what Lopunny does best (ie : making offensive teams cry). Once again would like input on this.

Wouldn't say it is the best but certainly it is the easiest to fit in and utilize compared to the other sets, not much prediction involved. So if anybody does want to explore Lopunny I do think it is a better starting point than the other sets.

I do agree in preferring PuP over Sub since I do find more versatility in its usage, it is very easy to hit potential switch ins with PuP and proceed to punch holes at +1 (assuming it isn't a scarf user). Moreover, it allows Lopunny to better maintain offensive pressure on your side, again because +1 isn't something to scoff at with her STAB's base power.

 

[trc]

i don't like pup or encore without sub. stabs pup encore doesn't even sound good because you can't use sub to victimise the moves you'd encore, and if you were using pup sub>encore anyway on that set so i don't see why they should get sets.

 

[Machi]

i don't like pup or encore without sub. stabs pup encore doesn't even sound good because you can't use sub to victimise the moves you'd encore, and if you were using pup sub>encore anyway on that set so i don't see why they should get sets.

I've posted my thoughts on this set twice but generally it is because PuP + Encore is used to deter or punish the use of recovery and subsequently punch holes at the opposing team. The difference with using sub is that it makes the conventional answers to MLop on stall or balanced teams more shaky at they are forced to take a +1/2 attack, and if they don't opt to switch out it only gives you more opportunity to keep boosting, more importantly allow for a reliable win condition, as you won't be as prone to HJK accidents as you end up using Frustration/Return more often.

I'd argue against the idea that you need sub to exploit the moves you'd need to encore when in fact you still have a plethora of moves to choose from, as seen from the replays.

Edit: And digging up Archphantom's, perhaps he has has something to say as well so I'll be tagging him, own RMT with replays using the same set I really would have to disagree with saying you need substitute to exploit clerics/boosters/hazard setters.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/power-bunny-pop-an-ou-balance-team-peaked-24.3526259/

 

[Albacore]

The advantage of Encore over Sub is that it enables you to break past defensive Pokemon much more easily. Say the opponent's answer to Lopunny is Phys Def Hippowdon. So it switches into a HJK, and it has to slack off on the next turn or else it gets KOed on the third turn. If you have Sub you can Sub on the Slack Off but if you PuP as it breaks your sub you still can't KO it the next turn since it's recovered and lose to the second EQ after sub+sand+potentilly rocks damage. If you have Encore you can just HJK it as it slacks off and then Encore and you just set up on it effortlessly. This can also apply to other physically defensive Pokemon with reliable recovery like Celebi and especially Mega-Slowbro.

In general there's a lot less prediction involved with Encore than Sub when facing defensive teams and it puts way more pressure on them too. It also has a bunch of other neat applications like locking Pokemon into SR (pretty significant since a lot of SR setters handle MLopunny very well and hence set them up in its face) and stopping CM sweepers in their tracks. I'm fine with moving Encore behind Sub but I'm not unslashing it.

 

[Jukain]

read what trc said. i will not approve an encore set without sub.

 

[Poek]

I feel like Low Kick deserves atleast a mention in moves if not a slash on the 4th moveslot of the Fake Out set. Low Kick allows you to dismantle balance easier without relying on annoying 50/50 's with protect vs Heatran, Ferrothorn and the like. Its not like you lose anything by using it since MLopunny has a lot of freedom on its last moveslot.

 

[AM]

Albacore how's this going? Make sure to slash Adamant on some of these sets now and just fix up some details to reflect the current meta-game trends.

 

[aim]

I'd add fakeout to the p-up punch set. The point of that set is to weaken its checks for its teammates. Fakeout + rocks add up on pokemon like scarf lando and bulky mons in general. The immediate and safe mega evo is nice too. I'd add ttar/excadrill in team options as p-up lopunny weakens the switch ins to exca and can provide the way for an easier sweep