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Ladder Anything Goes
- Thread starter Sweep
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In my opinion that is worse than just using an Pokemon with Own Tempo, like Numel being one of the best (watch out for HP Water Klefki yes that's used) or something like Slowbro/Slowking or even Lickilicky, because with Volcarona you can still get Paralyzed and Confused, another good mon vs Swagplay is Mega Sableye / Mega Diancie (with Diancie you need to be careful with Flash Cannon Klefki variants), with Mega Sableye you can just burn Klefki so that Play Rough variants won't hurt you much, and then they can't touch you at all.
mega rayquaza isnt even good in ag, considering it's very prone to swagplay
Mega Rayquaza is pretty good in AG imo, specially if you are using it as a moody pass recipient, using MSableye or MDiancie would mean you can't use it, but it also means you can win vs a lot of players on the ladder since there is a great amount of players using swagplay there.
Here's an underrated mon who would do very well here. It looks like a very anti-meta mon for AG.
Machamp @ Focus Sash/ Lum Berry (for T-wave Klefkis) /Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Substitute
- Stone Edge
Since Moody and evasion seem to be commonplace here, and many annoying common threats, such as Bibarel or Smeargle, are normal type, Machamp seems like the perfect mon for the job. If anything lives the Dynamic Punch, they'll get confused, which could screw them up. Earthquake is for all the Klefki spam, Ice Punch serves to hurt Rayquaza, but because of its ability, you could probably use sub if a Klefki tries to t-wave a Machamp with a Lum berry, and it couldn't do much from there, plus the sub will let him live one hit from Rayquaza, which brings me to my last point: Stone Edge should be used on Rayquaza if you're subbed, thus KOing Rayquaza.
Check these calcs out:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 238-282 (67.8 - 80.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This is likely to be the sash set, who will surprise the Rayquaza by being Sashed. Defog/Rapid Spin support might be appreciated.
Now, add one Life Orb:
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 309-367 (88 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO. It can still OHKO without Stealth Rocks, mind you.
Back to the Sub part, here's what happens if Rayquaza breaks Machamp's sub:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 358-422 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dynamic Punch, and Earthquake especially, will 2HKO all max defense Klefki's with Leftovers.
Machamp @ Focus Sash/ Lum Berry (for T-wave Klefkis) /Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Substitute
- Stone Edge
Since Moody and evasion seem to be commonplace here, and many annoying common threats, such as Bibarel or Smeargle, are normal type, Machamp seems like the perfect mon for the job. If anything lives the Dynamic Punch, they'll get confused, which could screw them up. Earthquake is for all the Klefki spam, Ice Punch serves to hurt Rayquaza, but because of its ability, you could probably use sub if a Klefki tries to t-wave a Machamp with a Lum berry, and it couldn't do much from there, plus the sub will let him live one hit from Rayquaza, which brings me to my last point: Stone Edge should be used on Rayquaza if you're subbed, thus KOing Rayquaza.
Check these calcs out:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 238-282 (67.8 - 80.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This is likely to be the sash set, who will surprise the Rayquaza by being Sashed. Defog/Rapid Spin support might be appreciated.
Now, add one Life Orb:
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 309-367 (88 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO. It can still OHKO without Stealth Rocks, mind you.
Back to the Sub part, here's what happens if Rayquaza breaks Machamp's sub:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 358-422 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dynamic Punch, and Earthquake especially, will 2HKO all max defense Klefki's with Leftovers.
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The important thing is that you will probably be fighting MRayquazas, which, with slightly improved defenses and Delta Stream will be able to survive 3 Stone Edges (252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 118-140 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)Here's an underrated mon who would do very well here. It looks like a very anti-meta mon for AG.
Machamp @ Focus Sash/ Lum Berry (for T-wave Klefkis) /Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Substitute
- Stone Edge
Since Moody and evasion seem to be commonplace here, and many annoying common threats, such as Bibarel or Smeargle, are normal type, Machamp seems like the perfect mon for the job. If anything lives the Dynamic Punch, they'll get confused, which could screw them up. Earthquake is for all the Klefki spam, Ice Punch serves to hurt Rayquaza, but because of its ability, you could probably use sub if a Klefki tries to t-wave a Machamp with a Lum berry, and it couldn't do much from there, plus the sub will let him live one hit from Rayquaza, which brings me to my last point: Stone Edge should be used on Rayquaza if you're subbed, thus KOing Rayquaza.
Check these calcs out:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 238-282 (67.8 - 80.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This is likely to be the sash set, who will surprise the Rayquaza by being Sashed. Defog/Rapid Spin support might be appreciated.
Now, add one Life Orb:
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 309-367 (88 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO. It can still OHKO without Stealth Rocks, mind you.
Back to the Sub part, here's what happens if Rayquaza breaks Machamp's sub:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 358-422 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dynamic Punch, and Earthquake especially, will 2HKO all max defense Klefki's with Leftovers.
Don't forget that Delta Stream cuts Stone Edge damage by half, so it will never OHKO unless you are facing regular Rayquaza. Also, Rayquaza can easily just break an existing Sub with Earthquake instead of suffering the Defense drop from Dragon Ascent.Here's an underrated mon who would do very well here. It looks like a very anti-meta mon for AG.
Machamp @ Focus Sash/ Lum Berry (for T-wave Klefkis) /Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Substitute
- Stone Edge
Since Moody and evasion seem to be commonplace here, and many annoying common threats, such as Bibarel or Smeargle, are normal type, Machamp seems like the perfect mon for the job. If anything lives the Dynamic Punch, they'll get confused, which could screw them up. Earthquake is for all the Klefki spam, Ice Punch serves to hurt Rayquaza, but because of its ability, you could probably use sub if a Klefki tries to t-wave a Machamp with a Lum berry, and it couldn't do much from there, plus the sub will let him live one hit from Rayquaza, which brings me to my last point: Stone Edge should be used on Rayquaza if you're subbed, thus KOing Rayquaza.
Check these calcs out:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 238-282 (67.8 - 80.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This is likely to be the sash set, who will surprise the Rayquaza by being Sashed. Defog/Rapid Spin support might be appreciated.
Now, add one Life Orb:
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 309-367 (88 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO. It can still OHKO without Stealth Rocks, mind you.
Back to the Sub part, here's what happens if Rayquaza breaks Machamp's sub:
252+ Atk Machamp Stone Edge vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 358-422 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dynamic Punch, and Earthquake especially, will 2HKO all max defense Klefki's with Leftovers.
I honestly have not found swagplay to be any threat at all. I've been using a pure baton pass team with a couple of moody smeargles, espeon, and drifblim. it wrecks everything. Fun fact: with enough evasion boosts, swagger can miss.
Swagger was already 90% accuracy, what did you think would happen?
But what if the person trapped by Funbro doesn't forfeit? What if the game becomes a battle of who has more time to waste?
There's lots of good Pokemon that can handle a team of 6 Klefki, but not so many that can beat a varied team around SwagPlay. Just using a trapper destroys half that list.
You definetly don't know how to make a proper team then! :^D
Man I really want to get into this metagame. Before anyone says "wtf dude this is like the ultimate cancer metagame", I don't care because I have an ultra high tolerance for that kind of stuff. I mean, I deeply enjoyed a god damn metagame infested with Sheer Cold Machoke and Machamp last gen :P
I'm sorta overwhelmed by the possibilities atm though so I have a few questions before I build my first team.
1. How viable is say... Safeguard? I was thinking of making a team with Mega Rayquaza, Wobbuffet, Primal Groudon, two Arceus, and some other mon, and the first thing I thought was "oh I could hypothetically run Safeguard on Primal Groudon, Wobbuffet, and 1-2 Arceus." Could be really stupid, but hey it was the first thing I thought of!
2. What do you guys think is your favorite "minimally luck based" strategies in this metagame? Don't get me wrong, I'm gonna run bs like Swagger and Moody BP some day and I will cackle like a mad man while doing it... but I have a feeling I won't enjoy them backfiring on me right when I start this metagame lol.
3. So my experience from glitchmons (which I'm pretty sure is a very different metagame btw lol) showed me the value of doubling up on same mons but with sets that compliment each other. The prime example of this being Ursaring. In this metagame, what Pokemon do you think exemplify this ideal (if it remains in this metagame)?
4. Ok finally... lol are you guys serious about Numel? I don't have the time to read the entire thread but hearing about HP Water Klefki makes me think its running Own Tempo (or maybe simple if you have massive balls? lol). Like if you guys are serious about it being a legit mon, that is one of the most hilarious things Ive ever heard, and just makes me want to play this metagame more rofl
I'm sorta overwhelmed by the possibilities atm though so I have a few questions before I build my first team.
1. How viable is say... Safeguard? I was thinking of making a team with Mega Rayquaza, Wobbuffet, Primal Groudon, two Arceus, and some other mon, and the first thing I thought was "oh I could hypothetically run Safeguard on Primal Groudon, Wobbuffet, and 1-2 Arceus." Could be really stupid, but hey it was the first thing I thought of!
2. What do you guys think is your favorite "minimally luck based" strategies in this metagame? Don't get me wrong, I'm gonna run bs like Swagger and Moody BP some day and I will cackle like a mad man while doing it... but I have a feeling I won't enjoy them backfiring on me right when I start this metagame lol.
3. So my experience from glitchmons (which I'm pretty sure is a very different metagame btw lol) showed me the value of doubling up on same mons but with sets that compliment each other. The prime example of this being Ursaring. In this metagame, what Pokemon do you think exemplify this ideal (if it remains in this metagame)?
4. Ok finally... lol are you guys serious about Numel? I don't have the time to read the entire thread but hearing about HP Water Klefki makes me think its running Own Tempo (or maybe simple if you have massive balls? lol). Like if you guys are serious about it being a legit mon, that is one of the most hilarious things Ive ever heard, and just makes me want to play this metagame more rofl
1. If you make a team around Safeguard it can be really annoying, also a surprise factor since it's not frequent.
2. Dark Void spam (if that counts). Winning battles with only Darkrai when all seems lost against 5-6 pokemon is nice.
3. Just use 9999 Arceus :^)
4. People who have troubles dealing with Swagger spam are like 1100 ELO on the ladder. Don't waste a slot in a shitmon like that.
Physically defensive Gliscor might be a good Klefki check, since it can take a +6 Foul Play and cripple it back with Taunt or Earthquake.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-207293349
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-207293349 This is now my favorite AG battle.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-207293349
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-207293349 This is now my favorite AG battle.
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Aww, I thought that Ferroseed was going to sweep!
Sorry about that. I was just shocked that Magikarp and Feebas could handle Klefki better than many Ubers.
Speaking of shitmons, I've been using Murkrow both as a SwagPlay user and as a stop to Baton Pass/Moody teams.
Murkrow @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Substitute
The moves are pretty self-explanatory. The EVs are so Murkrow can outspeed max speed Klefki. Leftovers is used over Eviolite for passive recovery, since Murkrow's so frail anyways and it would rather set up more Substitutes. Thankfully, I've never seen Mr. Mime on a Baton Pass team in this tier.
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What are some of the most popular sets of some of the most dangerous Pokémon in AG such as Mega Rayquaza and Darkrai?
I can only speak on M-Rayquaza but I definitely use Lum Berry Mega Rayquaza due to the amount of Swagger in the meta. I prefer running Swords Dance / 3 attacks as I feel it provides a solid win con. Espeed / Dragon Ascent / EQ / Swords Dance is my go to set. This can be supplemented further through the use of Subpass and Safeguard to circumvent Ditto and Klefki builds a bit better.
Personally I run an Adamant nature for the power boost. There hasn't been too many instances where I would've considered Jolly over Adamant in a lot of the scenarios I've found myself in. If speed tying is the concern then I guess it holds some weight but generally I wouldnt want my games to be decided on this factor and rather just take into account the lower speed before hand.
Why? 1. Sheer Cold Is Already An OHKO, So Choice Scarf To Boost It Isn't Needed. And If Its Choiced Whats The Point In Running Sleep Talk? You Would Be Locked Into Another Move By Time Your Put To Sleep. Leftovers Is A Better Option, And If Your Running Sleep Talk Rest Is Obviously Needed