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OU Sceptile
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
Two leaf storms after each other are still stronger than two giga drains I think, so it could be worth it.
However, I agree with you, that after using leaf storm a few times, you are basically forced to switch out, wasting your sub. Giga drain is a much better option on substitute because you can gain back health, and you are not forced out after a few rounds. Leaf storm is better on the all out attacker set because sceptile needs more power when going all out to try to sweep.
However, I agree with you, that after using leaf storm a few times, you are basically forced to switch out, wasting your sub. Giga drain is a much better option on substitute because you can gain back health, and you are not forced out after a few rounds. Leaf storm is better on the all out attacker set because sceptile needs more power when going all out to try to sweep.
On the first set, I'd make Leaf Storm a secondary slash behind Substitute. Substitute drains your HP and often isn't that useful when playing vs. offense or stall or even balance (read: I'm saying that, in my experiences, Substitute is absolutely useless). As an offensive player, I want to comment that most offense play styles play with a high risk vs. reward concept, so easing prediction is counterproductive to this strategy. Leaf Storm increases risk but also reward.
Also, there are so many times where Sceptile just needs to blast something that it otherwise could never KO. Most people assume Sceptile doesn't carry Leaf Storm (in my experiences) and they know that their bulky-ish Pokemon like Landorus is capable of living either Giga Drain or Dragon Pulse after several SR switch ins, and they'll most likely OHKO you. With Leaf Storm, it makes fighting against offense easier because you have an actual STAB attack that can KO things. Sceptile's biggest fallback is how weak and frail it is. It needs all the power it can get, really.
When I played with substitute, it was easy to set up substitutes, but the HP chipping wasn't worth it, and most teams early- game have Pokemon that completely wall you, so setting up Subs is very useless until that Pokemon is eliminated, so more often than not you can't really utilized subs you create for a majority of the battle (early- and mid- battle are very long and important in short battles that offense plays - by the time you've eliminated the Pokemon that walls Sceptile, Sceptile has about 50% remaining, or the subs simply aren't worth it).
However, substitute allows Sceptile to achieve more 2HKOs against things that normally give it a hard time like Heatran and Scizor. Due to how frail Sceptile is, it'll only keep the sub up for one turn, so you won't KO something and have a Pokemon like Heatran or Scizor saced to remove the Sub, so the Sub only works if Scizor / Heatran switch into Sceptile to ease the 2HKO; however, if you simply predict their switch in, you can 2HKO them without wasting any HP investment in making a substitute.
What I'm trying to say is that it's totally preference-based, but I feel that the kind of teams Sceptile fits on, Substitute is just an overall repetitive move that eats away at HP Sceptile desperately needs. In this respect, I feel that Leaf Storm needs at least a secondary slash, if not the primary one, for the fourth slot.
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I'll comment more on set two after I've tested it out.
EDIT: Also, how the heck did the OP miss Scarf Landorus as a check? Scarf Landorous's U-Turn is so annoying to face when using Sceptile because it outspeeds you, U-Turn does 86%, and if you switch out your opponent gets easy initiative.
EDIT2: I hope the OP isn't implying that Leaf Storm + Substitute is good together, because it's not.
Also, there are so many times where Sceptile just needs to blast something that it otherwise could never KO. Most people assume Sceptile doesn't carry Leaf Storm (in my experiences) and they know that their bulky-ish Pokemon like Landorus is capable of living either Giga Drain or Dragon Pulse after several SR switch ins, and they'll most likely OHKO you. With Leaf Storm, it makes fighting against offense easier because you have an actual STAB attack that can KO things. Sceptile's biggest fallback is how weak and frail it is. It needs all the power it can get, really.
When I played with substitute, it was easy to set up substitutes, but the HP chipping wasn't worth it, and most teams early- game have Pokemon that completely wall you, so setting up Subs is very useless until that Pokemon is eliminated, so more often than not you can't really utilized subs you create for a majority of the battle (early- and mid- battle are very long and important in short battles that offense plays - by the time you've eliminated the Pokemon that walls Sceptile, Sceptile has about 50% remaining, or the subs simply aren't worth it).
However, substitute allows Sceptile to achieve more 2HKOs against things that normally give it a hard time like Heatran and Scizor. Due to how frail Sceptile is, it'll only keep the sub up for one turn, so you won't KO something and have a Pokemon like Heatran or Scizor saced to remove the Sub, so the Sub only works if Scizor / Heatran switch into Sceptile to ease the 2HKO; however, if you simply predict their switch in, you can 2HKO them without wasting any HP investment in making a substitute.
What I'm trying to say is that it's totally preference-based, but I feel that the kind of teams Sceptile fits on, Substitute is just an overall repetitive move that eats away at HP Sceptile desperately needs. In this respect, I feel that Leaf Storm needs at least a secondary slash, if not the primary one, for the fourth slot.
-.-.-
I'll comment more on set two after I've tested it out.
EDIT: Also, how the heck did the OP miss Scarf Landorus as a check? Scarf Landorous's U-Turn is so annoying to face when using Sceptile because it outspeeds you, U-Turn does 86%, and if you switch out your opponent gets easy initiative.
EDIT2: I hope the OP isn't implying that Leaf Storm + Substitute is good together, because it's not.
Last edited:
Yes it does, though i don't remember which now, i think i have already mentioned them in this thread.
And yeah, Giga Drain > Leaf Storm on the Sub set, though Leaf Storm should remain on the main set, it's power is really useful.
vs. Manaphy
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 320-378 (87.6 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 266-314 (72.8 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Keldeo/Terrakion(they have the same bulk lol)
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo/Terrakion: 348-410 (107.7 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo/Terrakion: 288-342 (89.1 - 105.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Mega Slowbro
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Mega Slowbro: 372-440 (94.4 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Mega Slowbro: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Note that Mega Slowbro can run more SpD investment, so the calc may be this one:
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 240 HP / 252 SpD Mega Slowbro: 290-344 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Mega Gallade
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gallade: 142-168 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gallade: 118-139 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Close Combat OHKOes back, though
These are the OHKOs I found that Energy Ball can achieve and Giga Drain doesn't. Pretty sure there are more.
edit: oh I found a 2HKO:
vs. Unaware Clefable
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 320-378 (87.6 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 266-314 (72.8 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Keldeo/Terrakion(they have the same bulk lol)
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo/Terrakion: 348-410 (107.7 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo/Terrakion: 288-342 (89.1 - 105.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Mega Slowbro
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Mega Slowbro: 372-440 (94.4 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Mega Slowbro: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Note that Mega Slowbro can run more SpD investment, so the calc may be this one:
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 240 HP / 252 SpD Mega Slowbro: 290-344 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Mega Gallade
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gallade: 142-168 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gallade: 118-139 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Close Combat OHKOes back, though
These are the OHKOs I found that Energy Ball can achieve and Giga Drain doesn't. Pretty sure there are more.
edit: oh I found a 2HKO:
vs. Unaware Clefable
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Have you guys considered running a Swords Dance mixed set? I recall seeing a Mega Garchomp set that used SD with Dragon Claw/EQ/Draco Meteor. The whole premise of the set was to boost Mega Chomps disgusting attack with SD and hit checks to it with a Draco Meteor (or Fire Blast if i recall correctly). The drops from Draco weren't really a big deal because the main focus of the set was spamming Dragon Claw and EQ. Mega Sceptile has a great Special Attack stat but a slightly sub-par Attack stat and is incredibly fast making a mixed SD set with Dragon Claw/EQ/Leaf Storm hit a lot of pokemon in the tier pretty hard as a late-game sweeper. The set I was working on also serves as a decent check to most of the S tier pokemon in OU currently as it can outspeed them (if they haven't boosted) and either OHKO with a SD or 2HKO without.
Here is the set I've been working on:
Name: Mixed SD
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Dragon Claw
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Leaf Storm
Ability: Overgrow
Item: Sceptilite
EVs: 252 Atk / 44 SpA / 208 Spe
Nature: Naughty
So this set is hella weird but it allows it to beat a lot of stuff after a single boost. Getting the boost may be a little difficult but I've found that setting up on things that are afraid of it's STABs on their predicted switch out is the best as it isn't very bulky and has difficulty setting up in the face of offensive threats. The EVs and Nature are chosen to give Mega Sceptile the maximum Attack it can get without lowering Special Attack or Speed. The 208 Speed EVs are to beat Timid max Speed Greninja with 378 Speed (Greninja hits 377) and then the rest is dumped into Special Attack to get a slightly more powerful Leaf Storm. Naughty was chosen as it lowers its slightly higher Special Defense instead of its Defense, allowing it to tank priority a little better.
After a boost from SD, Mega Sceptile can KO Mega Metagross with EQ, Greninja, Latios and Thundurus-I with Dragon Claw (while being immune to Prankster T-Wave). After a boost it also beats both Mega Zards, Bisharp and a variety of other viable pokemon. With a neutral 44 EV Leaf Storm it can beat a variety of common Water types as well including Rotom-W, non-AV Azumarill, Mega Gyarados, Manaphy and a bunch of others.
I acknowledge this is probably a very niche pokemon set and I haven't had time to do any testing with it yet, but from the calcs I've been running it looks to be able to put a huge dent into a large portion of the metagame. A lot of its checks/counters are very similar in that they're bulky pokemon that lose to powerful wallbreakers and Fire types. Most of these pokemon are beaten quite handily by Azumarill or Talonflame as well, making for a nice little core.
Anywho for those who have calculation fetishes here is a bunch I threw together:
Mega Metagross
252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 150-178 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 297-349 (105.6 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Landorus-T
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 240-283 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 196-232 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Latios
252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 308-366 (101.9 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Thundurus-I
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 339-400 (113.3 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bisharp
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 426-502 (156.6 - 184.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Azumarill (Assault Vest)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 246-290 (71.3 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 256-302 (74.2 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 456-536 (162.2 - 190.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
MegaZard X (OU Bulky DDance Set)
252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Gardevoir
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 291-343 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Gyarados (Bulky DDance Set)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 320-378 (90.6 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Scizor (Bulky SD)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Scizor: 146-172 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Mega Zard Y (OU Wallbreaker)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 312-367 (105 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ferrothorn
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 143-169 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (124 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 160-190 (56.9 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Garchomp (OU Tank)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 380-450 (90.4 - 107.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Rotom-W (OU Usage)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 378-446 (124.3 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Slowbro (OU Physical Wall) - Assumed same as Mega Slowbro without boosts
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 476-564 (120.8 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Venusaur (OU Defensive)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 134-158 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Sceptile: 294-348 (104.6 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gliscor (Specially Defensive)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 184-217 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 211-249 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
Gyarados (Bulky DDance)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 199-235 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 231-273 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Heracross (OU Offensive)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 226-267 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hippowdon (OU Specially Defensive)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 354-416 (84.2 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Hippowdow (OU Physically Defensive)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 522-614 (124.2 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jirachi (OU Wishmaker)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 424-500 (104.9 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mamoswine
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mamoswine: 672-792 (187.1 - 220.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 307-363 (85.5 - 101.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 437-515 (155.5 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Manaphy (OU Tail Glow)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 398-470 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chansey
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 339-399 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Amoongus (UU Physically Defensive)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 229-271 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Dragonite (OU Bulky Roost Multiscale intact)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 267-315 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mandibuzz (OU Utility)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 195-231 (46 - 54.6%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 384-453 (136.6 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pokemon It Loses to:
Mega Sableye (can WoW and heal off damage due to 3HKO)
Mega Scizor (Can survive OHKO at +1, SD and then has good chance to OHKO with Bullet Punch)
Ferrothorn (Beats Sceptile with Gyro Ball but can't touch it otherwise)
Mega Venusaur (Doesn't take much damage from attacks and can OHKO back with Sludge Bomb)
Mega Aerodactyl (Outspeeds and OHKOs with Aerial Ace)
Mega Heracross (Can survive a +2 Dragon Claw and KO back)
Mamoswine (Is OHKO'd by Leaf Storm but OHKO's back with Ice Shard)
Skarmory (Doesn't take much damage from any attacks)
Chesnaught (Requires 3HKO and can 2HKO back with hammer Arm or heal itself with synthesis)
Mandibuzz (Has chance to 2HKO at +2 but dies to Foul Play)
Here is the set I've been working on:
Name: Mixed SD
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Dragon Claw
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Leaf Storm
Ability: Overgrow
Item: Sceptilite
EVs: 252 Atk / 44 SpA / 208 Spe
Nature: Naughty
So this set is hella weird but it allows it to beat a lot of stuff after a single boost. Getting the boost may be a little difficult but I've found that setting up on things that are afraid of it's STABs on their predicted switch out is the best as it isn't very bulky and has difficulty setting up in the face of offensive threats. The EVs and Nature are chosen to give Mega Sceptile the maximum Attack it can get without lowering Special Attack or Speed. The 208 Speed EVs are to beat Timid max Speed Greninja with 378 Speed (Greninja hits 377) and then the rest is dumped into Special Attack to get a slightly more powerful Leaf Storm. Naughty was chosen as it lowers its slightly higher Special Defense instead of its Defense, allowing it to tank priority a little better.
After a boost from SD, Mega Sceptile can KO Mega Metagross with EQ, Greninja, Latios and Thundurus-I with Dragon Claw (while being immune to Prankster T-Wave). After a boost it also beats both Mega Zards, Bisharp and a variety of other viable pokemon. With a neutral 44 EV Leaf Storm it can beat a variety of common Water types as well including Rotom-W, non-AV Azumarill, Mega Gyarados, Manaphy and a bunch of others.
I acknowledge this is probably a very niche pokemon set and I haven't had time to do any testing with it yet, but from the calcs I've been running it looks to be able to put a huge dent into a large portion of the metagame. A lot of its checks/counters are very similar in that they're bulky pokemon that lose to powerful wallbreakers and Fire types. Most of these pokemon are beaten quite handily by Azumarill or Talonflame as well, making for a nice little core.
Anywho for those who have calculation fetishes here is a bunch I threw together:
Mega Metagross
252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 150-178 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 297-349 (105.6 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Landorus-T
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 240-283 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 196-232 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Latios
252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 308-366 (101.9 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Thundurus-I
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 339-400 (113.3 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bisharp
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 426-502 (156.6 - 184.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Azumarill (Assault Vest)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 246-290 (71.3 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 256-302 (74.2 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 456-536 (162.2 - 190.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
MegaZard X (OU Bulky DDance Set)
252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Gardevoir
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 291-343 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Gyarados (Bulky DDance Set)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 320-378 (90.6 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Scizor (Bulky SD)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Scizor: 146-172 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Mega Zard Y (OU Wallbreaker)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 312-367 (105 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ferrothorn
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 143-169 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (124 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 160-190 (56.9 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Garchomp (OU Tank)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 380-450 (90.4 - 107.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Rotom-W (OU Usage)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 378-446 (124.3 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Slowbro (OU Physical Wall) - Assumed same as Mega Slowbro without boosts
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 476-564 (120.8 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Venusaur (OU Defensive)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 134-158 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Sceptile: 294-348 (104.6 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gliscor (Specially Defensive)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 184-217 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 211-249 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
Gyarados (Bulky DDance)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 199-235 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 231-273 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Heracross (OU Offensive)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 226-267 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hippowdon (OU Specially Defensive)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 354-416 (84.2 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Hippowdow (OU Physically Defensive)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 522-614 (124.2 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jirachi (OU Wishmaker)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 424-500 (104.9 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mamoswine
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mamoswine: 672-792 (187.1 - 220.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 307-363 (85.5 - 101.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 437-515 (155.5 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Manaphy (OU Tail Glow)
44 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 398-470 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chansey
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 339-399 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Amoongus (UU Physically Defensive)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 229-271 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Dragonite (OU Bulky Roost Multiscale intact)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 267-315 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mandibuzz (OU Utility)
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 195-231 (46 - 54.6%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 384-453 (136.6 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pokemon It Loses to:
Mega Sableye (can WoW and heal off damage due to 3HKO)
Mega Scizor (Can survive OHKO at +1, SD and then has good chance to OHKO with Bullet Punch)
Ferrothorn (Beats Sceptile with Gyro Ball but can't touch it otherwise)
Mega Venusaur (Doesn't take much damage from attacks and can OHKO back with Sludge Bomb)
Mega Aerodactyl (Outspeeds and OHKOs with Aerial Ace)
Mega Heracross (Can survive a +2 Dragon Claw and KO back)
Mamoswine (Is OHKO'd by Leaf Storm but OHKO's back with Ice Shard)
Skarmory (Doesn't take much damage from any attacks)
Chesnaught (Requires 3HKO and can 2HKO back with hammer Arm or heal itself with synthesis)
Mandibuzz (Has chance to 2HKO at +2 but dies to Foul Play)
Is Modest acceptable for a sub set? The extra power really helps nab those KOs from my experience, but it could just be me..
No I don't think so, you miss out on outspeed crucial stuff like mega lopunny and mega beedrill.
in response to what Shurtugal said, i don't think we should have substitute slashed with anything on the substitute set. yes, leaf storm might be better in some occasions, but we already have an all-out-attacker set. in my opinion, we could just mention double grass coverage (i think that's what you're getting at) in the all-out-attacker, rather than taking away one the main perks of the first set, which is sub.
Well yeah, why even call it the Substitute set if you're going to slash Substitute? But honestly in practice Shurtugal is right, double Grass STAB is useful due to the big difference in the moves. Leaf Storm is by far your most powerful attack and simply flat out KOs many neutral and offensive pokemon that the enemy wouldn't expect to. Giga Drain is also useful in that it is your safest move to use. You'd be surprised how often I need the assurance of Giga Drain's accuracy over Leaf Storm or Focus Blast to finish off a Tyranitar or Rotom-W for example. Not to mention it's a huge waste to be forced out from needlessly lowering your special attack just to kill something. Against balance and bulky teams you will see much better performance from double Grass than you would from Substitute, honestly.
Also I really have to say that SD is just horrible and unviable. Sceptile does not have the stats or movepool to justify it and it is just flat out sub par and outclassed.
Also I really have to say that SD is just horrible and unviable. Sceptile does not have the stats or movepool to justify it and it is just flat out sub par and outclassed.
I've honestly found SD to be pretty clutch at time with the proper team support, particularly I'm talking Magnezone. Outrage being 100% accurate and having a crazy BP makes up a bit for having base 110 Atk. It's powerful enough to tear apart Hyper Offensive teams, which is Mega Sceptile's specialty in general and SD Mega Sceptile can still do work against an unprepared defensive team as well. Thund-I is everywhere and it can't stop SD Mega Sceptile which is a huge benefit for a setup sweeper. Lastly, simply no one expects it at all. I'm no expert so I'd like to hear QC's opinion, but that's my 2 cents.
A few big problems with SD sets. You're weak to priority Brave Bird and Ice Shard, Sucker/Bullet Punch both hurt like hell too, and you can no longer afford to run Substitute meaning you are going to be forced out often. You can't take advantage of Lightning Rod anymore, or as much if mixed, to give you immediate power buffs from Volt Change. Burns are also a problem now, meaning Rotom-W is actually capable of crippling that particular set if you switch in, and being able to switch into Rotom-W worry free is a HUGE selling point for Sceptile. Sceptile has no need to lock himself into Outrage, and you'd have to explain how it isn't outperformed by Charizard X or even Haxorus.
+2 252 Atk Sceptile Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 462-544 (71.9 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 608-717 (94.7 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 570-672 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Still requires a turn of set up either way, only Haxorus can actually OHKO Chansey and isn't walled by Clefable with Mold Breaker and Poison Jab, or take a mega slot, and he's in the C ranks currently. Charizard X also has Roost, is weak to no form of priority, can't be burned, and can run Dragon Dance or Swords Dance/Tailwind to use against the appropriate teams.
+2 252 Atk Sceptile Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 462-544 (71.9 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 608-717 (94.7 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 570-672 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Still requires a turn of set up either way, only Haxorus can actually OHKO Chansey and isn't walled by Clefable with Mold Breaker and Poison Jab, or take a mega slot, and he's in the C ranks currently. Charizard X also has Roost, is weak to no form of priority, can't be burned, and can run Dragon Dance or Swords Dance/Tailwind to use against the appropriate teams.
Sceptile isn't capable of being paralyzed like Charizard X and Haxorus (after it's used it's lum berry of course), has grass type stab, MUCH greater speed, a deeper movepool to boot allowing to run multiple different moves letting it get past it's counters and even pick and choose the teamates it needs.Sure Haxorus might not take up a mega slot and Charizard X may have it's advantages too; however, Sceptile has his uses as an SD sweeper. Also Charizard X is more of a dragon dance sweeper not a swords dancer. Also you can take advantage of Lightning Rod; just give it giga drain as well as a naive nature to give it means of sustain.
Sceptile can be paralyzed from Body Slam or Glare, it just can't be paralyzed from Thunder Wave or Stun Spore. That speed means nothing if you insist on a set that requires a boost to dent things, and Sceptile's usable offensive movepool is honestly nothing amazing, and a moot point when Haxorus and Char X can get by virtually everything they need in three attacks. Just because the set can occaisonally function doesn't mean it's a good idea, and certainly not analysis worthy.
I would respectively disagree as the speed means that you don't have to be worried about being revenge killed by the likes of Greninja and some scarfed mons and you can possibly go with an adamant nature to boost that attack even further, unlike Charizard X and Haxorus who have to use more than two boosts in order to outspeed some scarfed pokemon (although priority is a major issue i'll grant you that). Also the ability to avoid being paralyzed by Thunder wave and stun spore (Yea it can be paralyzed by Glare and body slam but those aren't really commmon moves with the only exceptions being Mega Altaria and unreleased Serperior), not having a stealth rock weakness, grass stab, more versatility in it's moveslots, and immunity to spore give it an edge as a swords dance user. Sure it's probably the least effective of it's sets, but it is far from a bad ideas and has it's situational uses. Plus it's unorthodox meaning you already have the element of surprise.
I'm pretty sure positive Scarfed 80 at the very least will outspeed, which is literally every viable Scarfer except Heatran.
Here's my point. If you're going to use Sceptile's speed as a selling point, but you are advocating for a set and EV spread that takes a turn to set up to do respectful damage, that defeats the purpose. Again, notice the calcs I posted above. In one turn of set up with Char X or Haxorus you get a pokemon that is both faster and stronger than Sceptile is, and by a big degree too. All of Sceptile's selling points are wasted on a set like this. Sceptile already has a very usable SpA stat and just enough strong special moves with off the bat speed to be a formidable revenge killer or cleaner. He excels at getting in, threatening to kill something, and getting out. The reasons you listed (no SR weakness, Grass STAB, Thunder Wave/Spore immunity) make him a good pokemon, not specifically a good SD user. Here are the reasons he is not a good SD user. He can't get by common walls. Clefable, Ferrothorn, Skarmory for example. Pokemon like Heatran, Mega Scizor and Jirachi can take advantage of you being locked into Outrage. When you're Outrage locked you are easily revenge killed from priority and scarf users because you can't switch. Char X at least has respectable bulk and no priority weakness when he's locked, on top of a 130 Atk stat and Touch Claws, plus Fire STAB to rip past Steels and burn immunity. Haxorus ignores Unaware and tramples stall with sheer power and coverage or with Taunt. Those few instances of situational use and surprise do not make up for the other 90% of the time when the set is inferior, sorry.
Ok I wrote this up - it's ready for its third QC check! :)
Just for notes of what I did:
1. I changed the order of the sets, as recommended by Shurtugal and Jukain.
2. I kept the SD set in OO.
3. I did not mention dual grass coverage on the first set, as recommended by Jukain.
I'll gladly change any of these, or anything else, if QC members think differently.
Just for notes of what I did:
1. I changed the order of the sets, as recommended by Shurtugal and Jukain.
2. I kept the SD set in OO.
3. I did not mention dual grass coverage on the first set, as recommended by Jukain.
I'll gladly change any of these, or anything else, if QC members think differently.
I hate to be a nitpicker, but how is a base 145 special attack mediocre? Sure it's not god like or anything but medicore is a huge understatement.
Yes I have thank you for asking. And if that is the case then why state that it's base 110 attack is decent? I don't want to go on about this, but if their is anything else I would add in the overview it would be that mega sceptile is a fantastic status abosrber. Immune to thunder wave, spore, those other powder moves, and getting burned, except on a physical or, to a lesser extent, mixed set, doesn't bother getting burned all that much.