Pokémon Emboar

[zachmac]

I am extremely skeptical of Emboar in OU.

It has unimpressive bulk, low speed, and heavy dependence on recoil moves. Those three traits do not mix well together. You may get a bunch of damage in on the few turns you have it in, but it won't be in for very many turns before it's taken out. At least it's rivals Victini and Darmanitan can be supported with defog or rapid spin to help get over their Stealth Rock weakness. I wouldn't even consider using it as a wall breaker when there are so many other, more durable options.

You could go for a Flame Charge or Choice Scarf set to help deal with its speed, I suppose. Then it might be more viable. However, I'm worried about using Flame Charge when there are so many impressive sweepers out there (namely MegaZardX) who are even more threatening after one turn of boosting.

Choice Scarf looks to be the most viable set, in my opinion, but I'm even a bit doubtful of that because it just goes down so easily.

 

[Jaroda]

Just did some calcs and you're right (though to nitpick Emboar's defensive stats are 65 for each). Victini is more bulky than I thought compared to Emboar.
0 Atk Mew Earthquake vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 204-242 (55.5 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mew Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 146-172 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

Emboar does beat them anyway with Flare Blitz, Superpower/Hammer Arm, and Wild Charge respectively, but Grass Knot does make killing them easier and Head Smash isn't quite necessary either. I'll slash it since it seems to be worth it, but Grass Knot doesn't 2HKO Slowbro sadly.

If facing a Hippowdon fresh, it can just stall you out with Slack Off and Leftovers and let your own recoil kill you. Grass Knot is great for your longevity, and kills Rhyperior outright. Against regular Slowbro, Wild Charge is better. Against Mega Slowbro, Grass Knot is better.

0 SpA Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Slowbro: 206-244 (52.2 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm not saying it can't handle them otherwise if they have some prior damage, but isn't it nice to just flat out kill them with unnecessary recoil? If someone is going to run Adamant though, they may as well use Head Smash for those Dragons mentioned. IT's just nice to know what options one has, you know?

 

[Talpr0ne]

If facing a Hippowdon fresh, it can just stall you out with Slack Off and Leftovers and let your own recoil kill you. Grass Knot is great for your longevity, and kills Rhyperior outright. Against regular Slowbro, Wild Charge is better. Against Mega Slowbro, Grass Knot is better.

0 SpA Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Slowbro: 206-244 (52.2 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm not saying it can't handle them otherwise if they have some prior damage, but isn't it nice to just flat out kill them with unnecessary recoil? If someone is going to run Adamant though, they may as well use Head Smash for those Dragons mentioned. IT's just nice to know what options one has, you know?

Mega Slowbro is hit for 100 base power by Grass Knot.

 

[Jaroda]

Mega Slowbro is hit for 100 base power by Grass Knot.

Oh shit, you're right. I mistook Slowbro's weight in kilos for pounds. Damn you metric system. Good catch. Here's the actual calc.

0 SpA Emboar Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega SlowbroSlowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Still guaranteed with Stealth Rock pretty much at least. Didn't make a whole lot of difference to the calc fortunately.

 

[PikachuCandyツ]

Really low speed,def,sp.D, I don't see how an Emboar can do great against the OU meta these days especially when it's not running a scarf. Seriously, there is no need for a poor man's darmanitan on your team if you're playing OU. Maybe this set can work in RU where it belongs along with all the other lower class pokemon. A choice banded Emboar is clearly beaten in battle by garchomp, Landorus, and pretty much a whole lot other pokemon in OU and even UU, it's speed and defense are really the reason why this is so. Even with it's hp, it still has base 65 defense and if you plan on using an Emboar, just run it with a scarf rather than a band. No hate intended~

 

[pika pal]

Prediction will get it out of the way completely, getting rid of Emboar's #1 check. But if Stealth Rock is up, I see your point.

Of note is that because Emboar's main defense is in its HP rather than actual defenses, Talonflame takes more recoil OHKOing it than something like Gallade. And with that kind of damage, Talonflame goes down from its counter attack after being hit. We've already proven Emboar mainly gives Stall and slower/bulkier trouble, so I'd say against offensive teams, where he puts in less work inherently, trading him for an opponent's Talonflame wouldn't be too bad of a deal.

 

[Martin]

I expect that Reckless will propel this thing to either UU or BL, but the fact that birdspam making up about 1/5 of the teams (probably way off, but you get my point) on the ladder is what will hold back its usage. I mean, I am loving Reckless Flare Blitz, Head Smash and Wild Charge (I mean seriously its a physical Fire-type that can break Alomomola without a stat boost (Scarf: 252 Atk Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 36 HP / 220 Def Alomomola: 214-252 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery; Expert Belt: 252 Atk Expert Belt Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 36 HP / 220 Def Alomomola: 257-302 (53.5 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)). I don't see Life Orb seeing any use, with the sets I expect to see being Expert Belt and Choice Scarf (no CB because it is a genuinely bad set for a Pokemon like Emboar in OU) and if Greninja gets banned (which, based on the discussion I've had and seen in the OverUsed room on Showdown and my own experience pre-suspect, is incredibly likely) then it no longer lacks the minimum speed requirement for a scarfer (not to mention that it is faster than T-Tar, who is a good scarfer even with Greninja) and I expect it to be solid. Not OU due to Talonburd's omnipresence, but definitely UU and usable in OU.

tl;dr: the only sets I expect will see usage are Scarf and Expert Belt. Solid in OU, but wont get the usage for OU. I expect UU.

 

[Jaroda]

Expert Belt is a solid option now that people mention it. Wonder how many KOs it effects.

 

[I_am_A_Garchomp]

Really low speed,def,sp.D, I don't see how an Emboar can do great against the OU meta these days especially when it's not running a scarf. Seriously, there is no need for a poor man's darmanitan on your team if you're playing OU. Maybe this set can work in RU where it belongs along with all the other lower class pokemon. A choice banded Emboar is clearly beaten in battle by garchomp, Landorus, and pretty much a whole lot other pokemon in OU and even UU, it's speed and defense are really the reason why this is so. Even with it's hp, it still has base 65 defense and if you plan on using an Emboar, just run it with a scarf rather than a band. No hate intended~

Emboar isn't a mon that is slapped on a team meant to take all the Pokemon down. It is slapped on to teams that need a stallbreaker+like its coverage. With a CB, it can truck through everything. Just look at the calcs in the OP.
"Poor man's Darm" is what makes me laugh the most though. Darm is a poor man everything. Emboar has some more niches over Darm, like not instantly losing to Mega Bro, having no weakness to SR, which means that it isn't as passive, resist to Knock Off, and better coverage. May be weaker, but a lot better. And, because of the coverage, it is harder to switch in to. It isn't simply "throw in Slowbro/Rotom/bulky water and laugh". It is "Poo, this guy has Grass Knot and Wild charge, how do I switch in? Throw in LanT. Do that. But then get nuked by Flare Blitz for no reason. Oh how do I do this?" Scarf lets you sack a lot of power for nothing.

 

[PikachuCandyツ]

Emboar isn't a mon that is slapped on a team meant to take all the Pokemon down. It is slapped on to teams that need a stallbreaker+like its coverage. With a CB, it can truck through everything. Just look at the calcs in the OP.
"Poor man's Darm" is what makes me laugh the most though. Darm is a poor man everything. Emboar has some more niches over Darm, like not instantly losing to Mega Bro, having no weakness to SR, which means that it isn't as passive, resist to Knock Off, and better coverage. May be weaker, but a lot better. And, because of the coverage, it is harder to switch in to. It isn't simply "throw in Slowbro/Rotom/bulky water and laugh". It is "Poo, this guy has Grass Knot and Wild charge, how do I switch in? Throw in LanT. Do that. But then get nuked by Flare Blitz for no reason. Oh how do I do this?" Scarf lets you sack a lot of power for nothing.

Choice band limits it to one move leaving it prone to faster pokemon hits and death(It's defensive stats don't lie) Choice band is a good item, just not for such a open and slow boar. And Lando T is a switch in considering its massive attack stab on a fragile 65 defenseless Emboar. Why waste a perfectly open team slot for such a slow and low defense poke? There are far better alternatives. I get that he can work with slower pokemon, but the fact that this meta is run on mostly speed with the new megas, it won't live so long.

 

[Kurona]

This is now released.
Let's get blitzing

Jaguar360 , get to work convincing the viability rankings thread that it's worth it!

 

[Jaguar360]

Oh sweet! I'll start battling when I get home. I'll report back.

 

[BlueLobster]

Prediction will get it out of the way completely, getting rid of Emboar's #1 check. But if Stealth Rock is up, I see your point.


Also, I've decided to try and put together a team based on Emboar. This is what I came up woth so far:

Emboar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Head Smash

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder


I chose those two Pokemon to take care of things Emboar would struggle with. Rotom's there for Talonflame, and Venusaur's there for Water/Ground types that Emboar won't appreciate. Any suggestions for other team mates?

T-Flame + Mold Brraker Exca won't be fun (was thinking of using something like this), so I really think something with rock and ground coverage would help out. A Lati for the defogging would be nice, as Rotom and Emboar will be switching alot. I'd suggest healing wish Latias for this, as Emboar really appreciates the healing it provides.

 

[Jaguar360]

I'm taking a break from Showdown because I really don't feel like playing Pokemon right now, but I've been using Scarf Emboar and Band Emboar some (mostly this morning and the day after Emboar was released). Scarf Emboar seems much easier to use than Band in OU right now and it fits really well onto offensive teams. It's still pretty strong with a Scarf and it does a great job at putting pressure on most standard offensive Pokemon, including Mega Metagross, Raikou, Mega Gallade, Scarf Magnezone, Gengar, Tornadus-T and even weakened Latis and musketeers. It is prediction-reliant, but not nearly as punishing as Band Emboar since it has the speed to come in thanks to Greninja's ban.
I got a couple replays using it here. I'll put Scarf in the OP, as I believe it to be Emboar flagship set in OU now.
Emboar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Head Smash
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203917724
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203920079

Band does its job alright, but it really highlights one of Emboar's troubles: cores. Lando-T + Rotom-W is everywhere on the ladder and, while it is handled by Head Smash, every team has about two Steel, Ground or fighting types that can switch into Head Smash as well, making Band Emboar a bit hard to use and prediction reliant. I've also run into Slowbro + Gliscor, Heatran + Lando-T and just a ton of other cores that have given me trouble each game. The metagame seems unfavorable for Band Emboar at the moment, but if major changes were to happen (cough cough Lando-T/Mega Metagross suspect cough) then I can see Band Emboar be more viable.

 

[Kurona]

I'm taking a break from Showdown because I really don't feel like playing Pokemon right now, but I've been using Scarf Emboar and Band Emboar some (mostly this morning and the day after Emboar was released). Scarf Emboar seems much easier to use than Band in OU right now and it fits really well onto offensive teams. It's still pretty strong with a Scarf and it does a great job at putting pressure on most standard offensive Pokemon, including Mega Metagross, Raikou, Mega Gallade, Scarf Magnezone, Gengar, Tornadus-T and even weakened Latis and musketeers. It is prediction-reliant, but not nearly as punishing as Band Emboar since it has the speed to come in thanks to Greninja's ban.
I got a couple replays using it here. I'll put Scarf in the OP, as I believe it to be Emboar flagship set in OU now.
Emboar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Head Smash
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203917724
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203920079

Band does its job alright, but it really highlights one of Emboar's troubles: cores. Lando-T + Rotom-W is everywhere on the ladder and, while it is handled by Head Smash, every team has about two Steel, Ground or fighting types that can switch into Head Smash as well, making Band Emboar a bit hard to use and prediction reliant. I've also run into Slowbro + Gliscor, Heatran + Lando-T and just a ton of other cores that have given me trouble each game. The metagame seems unfavorable for Band Emboar at the moment, but if major changes were to happen (cough cough Lando-T/Mega Metagross suspect cough) then I can see Band Emboar be more viable.

Are every single one of those Attack and Speed EVs necessary, or would there only be some notable speed tiers you need to hit so that you can invest in some of that sexy 110 HP to take your recoil hits better?

 

[Jaguar360]

Are every single one of those Attack and Speed EVs necessary, or would there only be some notable speed tiers you need to hit so that you can invest in some of that sexy 110 HP to take your recoil hits better?

Full investment is needed to outspeed Mega Pidgeot and Tornadus-T, but you could aim for base 115s and have 216 EVs in Speed. I personally don't want to get unlucky by running into one of those, so I just go with full speed.

 

[Karxrida]

Did we talk about Scald yet? I'd check but it's late and I'm lazy.

Scarf and LO could run Scald for obvious Lando-T or Gliscor switch-ins, and the potential to burn is always nice (especially if you catch Gliscor before Poison Heal activates).

 

[JungleB]

Did we talk about Scald yet? I'd check but it's late and I'm lazy.

Scarf and LO could run Scald for obvious Lando-T or Gliscor switch-ins, and the potential to burn is always nice (especially if you catch Gliscor before Poison Heal activates).

Scald has been discussed quite thoroughly before. Basically the conclusion that we came to is that all the things Emboar is going to want to stay in or are hit by grass knot, and grass knot hits other things as well.

 

[viol and bass]

I've been enjoying a spread with max HP, Lefties and 4 attacks. Still hits like a truck, but it doesn't wear itself down nearly as fast (as an example, it easily OHKOes Ferrothorn and after Leftovers takes less than 1/3 of its HP in recoil, much of that due to Iron Barbs). It actually has a really nice defensive typing that allows it to consistently check stuff like Scizor, Bisharp, Volcarona, Ferrothorn, Weavile, Mandibuzz (Flare Blitz then Superpower on the Roost), Clefable (2HKOed by Flare Blitz; Moonblast does little), Skarmory (OHKOes 80% of the time after SR) and probably a bunch of other shit. It can come in many times during a match in order to check one or even several of these threats. The other nice thing about this set is, since it has the freedom to switch attacks, it can make great use of Sucker Punch. It has the advantage over Life Orb of not being dead after two Flare Blitzes. It could also make use of Will-o-Wisp to catch Lando switch-ins.

Emboar @ Leftovers
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge / Will-o-Wisp
- Sucker Punch

 

[BenTheDemon]

Did we talk about Scald yet? I'd check but it's late and I'm lazy.

Scarf and LO could run Scald for obvious Lando-T or Gliscor switch-ins, and the potential to burn is always nice (especially if you catch Gliscor before Poison Heal activates).

A long time ago, I mentioned it. The general consensus was that it's generally not the best use of a moveslot.
What calcs are you using, because with 0 SpA neutral nature, it doesn't 2HKO Gliscor and only has ~20% chance to 2HKO Landorus-T after Leftovers. The chance to burn is nice, but Emboar has plenty of Fire STAB for that.

 

[Karxrida]

A long time ago, I mentioned it. The general consensus was that it's generally not the best use of a moveslot.
What calcs are you using, because with 0 SpA neutral nature, it doesn't 2HKO Gliscor and only has ~20% chance to 2HKO Landorus-T after Leftovers. The chance to burn is nice, but Emboar has plenty of Fire STAB for that.

0 SpA Life Orb Emboar Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 179-213 (46.8 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Emboar Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 179-213 (56.1 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah it's probably not the best option, but being able to break Bulky Lando-T is worth OO at least (in my humble opinion).

 

[BenTheDemon]

0 SpA Life Orb Emboar Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 179-213 (46.8 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Emboar Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 179-213 (56.1 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah it's probably not the best option, but being able to break Bulky Lando-T is worth OO at least (in my humble opinion).

It may be worth a mention, but I just think that it has far better options.
Flare Blitz and Superpower are obligatory. Wild Charge is almost always move number 3 for its coverage. And the fourth slot just seems to be much more suited to Sucker Punch for priority or Head Smash for an ultra powerful attack boosted by Reckless.
I was doing some calcs for mixed sets, but they just don't hold a candle to fully Physical sets.

 

[Jaroda]

I've been enjoying a spread with max HP, Lefties and 4 attacks. Still hits like a truck, but it doesn't wear itself down nearly as fast (as an example, it easily OHKOes Ferrothorn and after Leftovers takes less than 1/3 of its HP in recoil, much of that due to Iron Barbs). It actually has a really nice defensive typing that allows it to consistently check stuff like Scizor, Bisharp, Volcarona, Ferrothorn, Weavile, Mandibuzz (Flare Blitz then Superpower on the Roost), Clefable (2HKOed by Flare Blitz; Moonblast does little), Skarmory (OHKOes 80% of the time after SR) and probably a bunch of other shit. It can come in many times during a match in order to check one or even several of these threats. The other nice thing about this set is, since it has the freedom to switch attacks, it can make great use of Sucker Punch. It has the advantage over Life Orb of not being dead after two Flare Blitzes. It could also make use of Will-o-Wisp to catch Lando switch-ins.

Emboar @ Leftovers
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge / Will-o-Wisp
- Sucker Punch

This concept intrigues me. You know though, I can't help but figure, why not simply go the extra mile and abuse Leftovers on a SubPunch set?

Emboar@Leftovers
Reckless
Adamant 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch / Wild Charge / Toxic

Substitute should be an interesting method of scouting switches the opponent makes and makes it so you don't have to waste recoil damage needlessly. Behind a Sub, you are obviously very deadly with Focus Punch being as strong as Reckless Flare Blitz is for optimum double STAB power. Sucker Punch is obviously nice for priority and allows you to threaten the Lati twins, as Sucker Punch with SR will OHKO either while they try to break your Sub after Life Orb recoil for them. The speed is for outrunning Heatran and Mega Venusaur and others in the 80 speed tier. Wild Charge is needed to break Azumarill, Tentacruel, and Talonflame without SR but that's pretty much it really. Without a boosting item Slowbro isn't 2HKO by Wild Charge, and other waters like Keldeo are handled by SubPunch just fine. It's potentially useful against Starmie too but you do have Sucker Punch or Focus Punch if it uses Reflect Type.

Finally as a last option I actually think Toxic is a good idea. This is actually your best answer for the bulkiest mofos like physical Hippowdon, Mega Slowbro without Rest, Mega Altaria without Heal Bell, Mega Latias, Dragonite, bulky Landorus-T and Cresselia. Without a power boosting item your ability to wall break is legitimately hampered. A combination of Substitute and Toxic however makes you equally dangerous against offense and stall.

I like this idea because it's a good lure. Emboar can threaten out tons of slow bulky mon and hazard setters and the threat of his powerful STABs should easily allow for Subs. This is theoretical at the moment, so I'm not sure how great in practice it'd be. It's possible this is trying to have Emboar do too much at once. It could also be a deceptive lure with the moves to handle more teach archetypes than normal. I'm curious to see.

EDIT: Here we go, here's some replays. In the second one, while there is a fair bit of hax in my favor, it still highlights Emboar as the MVP of the match actually.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-206392643
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-206403818

So After a few hours playing with this thing I think it's awesome. Substitute is so fantastic on this thing, and the Leftovers makes a HUGE difference in terms of longevity due to switches you cause. Focus Punch is brutal in power, and is great because you aren't forced out afterwards like you would be from Superpower. Emboars' deadliness against balance and bulky offense is undeniable, and many things on HO hate Sucker Punch and are forced to try to break your sub. It's not as great a wallbreaker as before, but the flexibility to switch moves, priority from Sucker Punch, protection from Substitute, and the raw BP of your two STABs actually leaves you wanting for very little. This set is potentially B- honestly.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Emboar@Leftovers
Reckless
Adamant 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch / Wild Charge / Toxic

Protip: A 28 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Def / 52 SpD / 124 Spe spread will optimize your bulk slightly while also giving you an HP stat divisible by 16 for that extra point of Leftovers recovery. Plus, it's absurdly complicated, so you can show it off to your friends and make it look like you're super creative!

 

[Jaroda]

I see where you're coming from, but for this set you want more HP for recoil and Substitute purposes. The defenses won't help as much in general if you'll be behind a Sub often. I'm actually debating whether to move more Speed into HP actually, because Focus Punch and Sucker Punch both disregard the speed stat.