Ladder Balanced Hackmons

I haven't looked at the moveset stats yet, just straight usage. Trace Aero would definitely be weird. Handy for scouting I suppose (no worries of Volt Switching into a random Motor Drive Mewtwo or something at least, which almost costed me a game waaaay back in Gen V.)
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Just OT, but I lament the fact everyday that the cool original idea I once had (assist Eq and then thousand arrows to make a pseudo-gen5 prank nature power groudon again) has turned into a merciless spam fest that works purely because noone wants to prep themselves for one of those spam teams at the cost of those other players that actually would like to play the tier
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Just OT, but I lament the fact everyday that the cool original idea I once had (assist Eq and then thousand arrows to make a pseudo-gen5 prank nature power groudon again) has turned into a merciless spam fest that works purely because noone wants to prep themselves for one of those spam teams at the cost of those other players that actually would like to play the tier
AHH A GHOST RUN AND SAVE YOUR CHILDREN

you should feel ashamed for yourself. i warned you of the consiquences of using that team, and did you listen? noooooooo.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Just OT, but I lament the fact everyday that the cool original idea I once had (assist Eq and then thousand arrows to make a pseudo-gen5 prank nature power groudon again) has turned into a merciless spam fest that works purely because noone wants to prep themselves for one of those spam teams at the cost of those other players that actually would like to play the tier
LCASS AVATAR SUMS UP MY FEELINGS ABOUT YOU ASDHIGAOHIGOAWHGOAWEJFOA
 
I've found that Fur Coat physically defensive Giratina with King's Shield, Metal Burst, Curse, and recovery can stop Assist teams pretty reliably. Groudon needs to be at +6 to 2hko (the prankster one, I don't know how it fares against Tinted Lens/Adapt variants), and it doesn't really want to set up that much against something with Curse. Even if it does, Metal Burst will OHKO it after a certain point. I need to run some calcs to be sure but that's how I've been dealing with it.
 
Is there any UU version of BH or something like that?

Let's say only with pokemon under BST 600 i guess, i really don't know.
 
Is there any UU version of BH or something like that?

Let's say only with pokemon under BST 600 i guess, i really don't know.
I tried to make a BH 600 that limited the max BST to 600 but didnt get approved cause BH meta seems to be wanted to stay unique or something like that.
Tho I guess BH UU and the like can be kept and asked about in the room when there's people around.
 
So in case you all haven't heard, January brought the return of the long-awaited BH usage statistics.

Moveset stats (hmm, I wonder how many Primal Groudons had Assist?): http://www.smogon.com/stats/2014-12/moveset/

Thoughts?
Interestingly the moveset stats also include item and ability stats. I thought I'd compare the most popular 30 BH (1500 and above) abilities against the AAA (1500 and above) stats. The AAA popularity is given in parentheses, except for Simple, Aerilate and Fur Coat which were not used above 1500 on the AAA ladder in December.

  1. Contrary(43)
  2. Prankster(4)
  3. Magic Bounce(3)
  4. Imposter(107)
  5. Sturdy(29)
  6. Simple
  7. Poison Heal(5)
  8. Aerilate
  9. Mold Breaker(13)
  10. Pixilate(21)
  11. Protean(51)
  12. Refrigerate(7)
  13. Speed Boost(45)
  14. Adaptability(1)
  15. Fur Coat
  16. No Guard(8)
  17. Magic Guard(11)
  18. Gale Wings(2)
  19. Desolate Land(19)
  20. Unaware(13)
  21. Primordial Sea(16)
  22. Normalize(43)
  23. Illusion(17)
  24. Flash Fire(10)
  25. Regenerator(9)
  26. Teravolt(48)
  27. Levitate(15)
  28. Skill Link(57)
  29. Delta Stream(22)
  30. Tough Claws(11)
Items were uninteresting with mostly the same items in the top 10.
  1. Leftovers(1)
  2. Life Orb(2)
  3. Lum Berry(13)
  4. Focus Sash(6)
  5. Safety Goggles(72)
  6. Eviolite(7)
  7. Toxic Orb(5)
  8. Choice Scarf(3)
  9. Assault Vest(9)
  10. Rocky Helmet(10)
  11. Choice Band(4)
  12. Power Herb(52)
  13. Sitrus Berry(11)
  14. Nothing(17)
  15. Spooky Plate(118)
  16. Soul Dew
  17. Expert Belt(19)
  18. Pixie Plate(73)
  19. Choice Specs(8)
  20. Air Balloon(21)
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
shedinja:
Shell Smash 6.165%

yesss....people are slowly catching on to my beautiful set :]

Shadow Sneak 11.063%
THIS however...shouldnt be a thing.
Shadow Claw 12.870%
or this.
Infestation 4.308%
or this.
Bullet Punch 2.566%
or this.
X-Scissor 1.239%
or this.

i will give wisp, toxic, seed, and etc the benifit of the doubt, however, you should consider whirlpool or something for bouncers.

Teammates:
Aerodactyl-Mega +4.127%

lets face it. my team is the reason aerodactyl is the #2 most used partner with shedinja loool.
 
I can't stand the complaints about Groudon Assist teams. Let's face it, Hyper Offense has never been as effective as other playstyles in higher levels of play. You're better off using a backbone to wall ridiculous opposers such as Assist Groudon!


Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Milk Drink
- Topsy-Turvy
- Taunt

This incredibly simple set traps and PP stalls imposters, easily PP stalls powerful attackers with Taunt, and inverts stat boosts to wall random setup sweepers. There's really not much to say about this set. You guys need to get creative and look at the big picture, as most teams need Fur Coat Pokemon anyway, it's almost essential right now.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I can't stand the complaints about Groudon Assist teams. Let's face it, Hyper Offense has never been as effective as other playstyles in higher levels of play. You're better off using a backbone to wall ridiculous opposers such as Assist Groudon!


Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Milk Drink
- Topsy-Turvy
- Taunt

This incredibly simple set traps and PP stalls imposters, easily PP stalls powerful attackers with Taunt, and inverts stat boosts to wall random setup sweepers. There's really not much to say about this set. You guys need to get creative and look at the big picture, as most teams need Fur Coat Pokemon anyway, it's almost essential right now.
untill one of the 5 tricks you, and then your poke is useless.

however. a much simpler and more effective way to dismantle groudon assist teams, is to just run baton pass shed with spore, and baton pass after you spore, and just nuke the team one by one. lol.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I'm not saying it hard-counters it, i'm saying that walls such as the one above HELP IMPROVE your matchup against those teams.
i understand what you meant, but im just saying, the most popular one right now has 5 choice banded groudon and all it takes is for one to trick you, and then your "improvement helper" becomes a liability to your team. lol.
 
In that case...

Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Scald
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Topsy-Turvy / Taunt (If PP stalling becomes an issue)

Behold, a hard-counter to the apparent gods of BH in the current metagame. While it may have less viability against other wallbreakers, it's still pretty effective in general. This set can also be used with Mega Audino.

EDIT: Ok, I know I may have been a little rude in my posts prior to this one, so I'm sorry :(
 
Last edited:
Furcoat is good but they tend to run atleast one moldbreaker to kill sheddy and break through fur coat aswell.
So you've got to take it to the calculations.
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowbro: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Groudon Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowbro: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Cause the calculator lacks thousand arrows the estimated damage is in the 50%'s tho (stats were adjusted)

Also there's very likely to be atleast one water absord groudon (My prankster kyogre primal failed due of this) so take that into consideration aswell.


If you really wish to hard counter the army of groudon primals:

Sceptile-Mega @ Leftovers / Skeptilite
Ability: Primordial Sea / Fur Coat
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heal Order
- U-turn / Ice Beam
- Steam Eruption / scald
- Giga Drain / Seed Flare

There. Resists the arrows, outspeeds non prankster non scarfed ones (most notable tinted lens variants that hope to wall break) Scald/steam eruption ohko non water absord groudons, for water absords, seed flare deals back 2OHKO:
60+ SpA Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Groudon: 222-262 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Non furcoat:
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 200 Def Sceptile: 172-203 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ( 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 200 Def Sceptile: 138-162 (40.2 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (after Leftovers recovery)
Furcoat:
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 200 Def Fur Coat Sceptile: 86-101 (25 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (after Leftovers recovery)

Running more def can be done if running primordeal sea, and then giga drain might be recommended for the healing aswell. U turn is to escape imposters on the switch and buy some time cause groudon assist spams always have that one imposter. Ice beam can also be run if you feel especially ballsy, but it might not be able to ko back so, theres that problem.
Generally this skeptile tends to deal with groudon spam pretty well. Skeptilite is pretty much quite recommended item for just incase, but leftovers are also nice, it really depends on your team in general.

Unfortunantly this skeptile tends to kinda suck outside of groudon countering, so there's that problem.
But really, if you really want to make groudon spammers cry, use this.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
i still prefer shedinja over the first two mainly since they usually run 1 mold breaker, and even then, if you have a slightly bulky poke of your own, you can consistantly switch between them. personally, i run sporeshed with prankspore gira, and then just nuke them with rayquaza or something once they are asleep. and on top of that they cant run stealth rock/any other method barring rocky helmet and mold breaker tarrows to deal with shedinja, which obviously isnt much of a problem when you dont even stay in/attack with shedinja anyways. plus sheddys sheddy, so it has niche outside of solely countering 1 or 2 threats.

edit: well, they can run chatter, but chatter just makes it a roulette for imposter, so i doubt anyone with a brain would want to do that.
 
i still prefer shedinja over the first two mainly since they usually run 1 mold breaker, and even then, if you have a slightly bulky poke of your own, you can consistantly switch between them. personally, i run sporeshed with prankspore gira, and then just nuke them with rayquaza or something once they are asleep. and on top of that they cant run stealth rock/any other method barring rocky helmet and mold breaker tarrows to deal with shedinja, which obviously isnt much of a problem when you dont even stay in/attack with shedinja anyways. plus sheddys sheddy, so it has niche outside of solely countering 1 or 2 threats.

edit: well, they can run chatter, but chatter just makes it a roulette for imposter, so i doubt anyone with a brain would want to do that.
Trick + flame orb is the thing that made assist teams annoying.
 

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