Tier Shift Viability Rankings (Complete Revamp)

[a__man]

Typhlosion

Typing: Fire
Base Stats: 93 / 99 / 93 / 124 / 100 / 115
Ability: Blaze
What it Does: Typhlosion is most notable for using Eruption incredibly well. 150 BP at full health coming off 124 SpA can't really be ignored. Choice Specs makes it a ridiculous wall breaker, and under the Sun it can even threaten Chansey. On the other hand, Choice Scarf is a very nice revenge killer. It isn't harmless even at low healths, since Fire Blast hits hard as well, especially backed by Blaze. Focus Blast and Hidden Power round out its coverage, letting it hurt pokemon like Heatran, Rhyperior and Gastrodon as well: no pokemon really wants to freely switch into Typhlosion attacks, including Defensive Alomomola and Cresselia, and even some offensive waters like Keldeo and Starmie.
Why this Rank: Used well, Typhlosion is a great cleaner and wall breaker and can rip through unprepared teams. But for a pokemon that needs to stay at full health, losing a quarter of your HP thanks to Stealth Rock, having okay-at-best bulk, and having a lot of common weaknesses really hurts. In addition to that, it works best as a Choiced user and has only a few viable moves, so it's very predictable: for something that relies on coverage, this isn't a good thing. Bulky pokemon with resistances to Fire and Fighting (and the later isn't even necessary in the case of bulky waters like Vaporeon and Milotic) can wall it often, like the Latis, Mega Charizard Y, and Chandelure. It has a bad time with Alomomola as well, since HP Grass doesn't hit hard enough to bypass Regenerator and Mirror Coat is very unpleasant. What's more, rain's dominance means Typhlosion has crippled offense and is often outsped, losing its main niche (and Politoed has enough bulk to take anything thrown at it). It even lacks priority. In the end, Typhlosion only does a few things, but it does them really well, so it has a B Rank.

 

[Maniacr]

I propose Mega Houndoom for at least B Rank.

Stats: 75 / 90 / 90 / 140 / 90 / 115

Stats after +5 increase: 80 / 95 / 95 / 145 / 95 / 120

Ability: Solar Power

What it can do: Weather absolutely dominates Tier Shift. Under Sun, Mega Houndoom becomes an absolute monster. With a humongous Special Attack as is, Solar Power takes it to a whole new level. Under sun, Dark Doge can rip through teams and can even 2HKO things that resist Fire Blast. With fantastic defensive stats and speed, Mega Houndoom can run bulky sets and still outspeed some things. With a moveset of Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Dark Pulse, Solar Beam/HP Grass, and Will o' Wisp; Mega Houndoom can sweep many teams.

Why B-rank? With amazing defensive stats and a Sp. Atk of 145 in tier shift, Mega Houndoom is a powerhouse. It is however let down by a poor movepool and needs support in order to keep it alive. Solar Power while great for sweeping does limit its time on the field. That combined with status effects such as Poison and entry hazards like Stealth Rock, Mega Houndoom's time on the field is severely limited. It needs support for sun, status removal, and entry hazard removal.

 

[CrazyGuy108]

Flareon for, I don't know, Around A- Rank.

Tier: PU
Stats: 80/145/75/110/125/80
Abilities: Flash Fire/Guts
What it can do: Flareon's now boosted mixed attacking stats can prove fairly well in the metagame, especially being a scarfed hard hitter or a guts powerhouse with similar power to Conkeldurr in OU. My favorite set is a Scarfed Flash Fire serving as a partner to pokemon with a blazing fire weakness such as Durant, Mega Scizor, or Ferrothorn. That role is similar to Heatran, having better defensive typing, but lacking the power that Flareon proudly boasts. It can also serve as a specially defensive pivot with it's access to wish, heal bell, and that great special defense. A set of Flare Blitz, Superpower,
Why that rank?: I believe that Flareon has a very supportively offensive role in the metagame with it's immunity to fire and ability to check or even counter sun teams. It's amazing 145 Attack and 110 SpAttack are quite good, in my opinion. This mon could even check Mega Houndoom and, with a scarf, outspeed it and OHKO with Superpower. I think that Flareon will be a very viable team supporter and threat to many sun teams. It'll be a dominant force when it comes to countering sun teams.

 

[insanelegend]

Ok, sorry for the late replies. I think Mega Houndoom could be B-Rank, as it has great speed and power especially under sun. I can't put Flareon any higher than B however. After playing with it, I find it slow and not that bulky. There are much better walls with better typings (like Vaporeon if you want an eeveelution) and its lack of coverage offsets the power it brings. Its only decent coverage, Superpower, is not something that can simply be spammed. There are imunities to it and many pokemon can set up while it is locked in (if choiced). Guts could be viable, but Zangoose does the same thing but with STAB Facade, good coverage, and priority.

Tornadus-T B+ to A-
Politoed A+ to S
Clefable A- to B+
Slowbro B+ to B
Mew A to A-
Chansey A- to B+
I heard no objections when these were up for debate. Others getting ranked:
Escavalier to A-
Virizion to B+
Druddigon to B
Dugtrio from C+ to B-
Lilligant from C to B-
Jirachi to A-
Clawitzer to C

 

[a__man]

I think Mega Hera actually needs to go to A, since that small loss in attack means a lot of defensive walls can save themselves from a 2HKO (Alomomola and Hippowdon force use of Bullet Seed, Aromatisse isn't threatened by Rock Blast, Togekiss can now check, Cresselia finds it easier to survive, etc). That combined with its already iffy speed tier getting even worse, I don't think it's as great a wall breaker as it was.

Also nominating Blissey for B–. Bulk difference between it an Chansey has decreased, and that extra SpA helps it get past Lando (which Chansey has to face Knock Off) with Ice Beam and Ferro and Scizor with Flamethrower. 60 Base Speed is also better than 50.

 

[insanelegend]

Just a few changes

a__man I agree with Heracross needing to move down, and many of its counters are far more present in Tier Shift than OU. Blissey really doesn't offer much over Chansey, and is too passive compared to other walls.

Mega-Heracross A+ to A
Sawk A- to A
Mega-Scizor A- to A
Azumarill A to A- (need to test more)
Kyurem A- to A
Carbink D to Unranked (Diancie exists)
Diancie Unranked to B-
Abomasnow Mega B to B+
Goodra B+ to A-
Chansey B+ to B

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Flareon for, I don't know, Around A- Rank.

Tier: PU
Stats: 80/145/75/110/125/80
Abilities: Flash Fire/Guts
What it can do: Flareon's now boosted mixed attacking stats can prove fairly well in the metagame, especially being a scarfed hard hitter or a guts powerhouse with similar power to Conkeldurr in OU. My favorite set is a Scarfed Flash Fire serving as a partner to pokemon with a blazing fire weakness such as Durant, Mega Scizor, or Ferrothorn. That role is similar to Heatran, having better defensive typing, but lacking the power that Flareon proudly boasts. It can also serve as a specially defensive pivot with it's access to wish, heal bell, and that great special defense. A set of Flare Blitz, Superpower,
Why that rank?: I believe that Flareon has a very supportively offensive role in the metagame with it's immunity to fire and ability to check or even counter sun teams. It's amazing 145 Attack and 110 SpAttack are quite good, in my opinion. This mon could even check Mega Houndoom and, with a scarf, outspeed it and OHKO with Superpower. I think that Flareon will be a very viable team supporter and threat to many sun teams. It'll be a dominant force when it comes to countering sun teams.

Flareon doesn't have flare blitz

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

Flareon doesn't have flare blitz

You're still living in Gen 5. In Gen 6, it learns Flare Blitz at level 45.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

You're still living in Gen 5. In Gen 6, it learns Flare Blitz at level 45.

Really? That's new. I hadn't really paid him any attention since like 6th grade, so it makes sense that I missed that. XD

 

[Ununhexium]

Not that I play the meta or anything but I'd just like to point out that you have Hippowdon ranked twice

 

[insanelegend]

Not that I play the meta or anything but I'd just like to point out that you have Hippowdon ranked twice

Thanks and fixed

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I noticed that, for some reason, ludicolo isn't even ranked... Which is definitely wrong... I haven't personally used it, but I think it definitely deserves at LEAST a B. Probs higher. Like I said, I haven't tested it, but it has absolutely wrecked me before (though, admittedly, that's certainly not enough of an argument). I would really like someone to test it and verify this for me.

 

[insanelegend]

That is definitely something that does need to be ranked. I would say B- for now, will probably move higher. It is one of rains biggest threats

 

[insanelegend]

ORAS is out, and we have had a little time to test out some new megas and tutor moves. How should these megas be ranked? How will new moves impact the metagame?

 

[Mystletainn]

In my opinion, many of the megas are fairly broken, with the tiers they are in right now. I'd avoid ranking them until their OU usage sorts itself out. In the meanwhile, I have a proposal for one of my favorite 'Mons that I notice is unranked...

Mesprit for A-

Tier: NU
Stats: 95/120/120/120/120/95
Abilities: Levitate

Mesprit is a very underrated Pokemon that can serve a variety of purposes through its pseudo-Arceus-level stats and lovely movepool. It can provide a significant damage threat through its pantheon of effective attacks such as the famed Bolt/Beam combo, access to nifty coverage moves in Energy Ball or Dazzling Gleam, as well as being able to hit mixed though Psyshock. Its physical movepool is no slouch either, with access to moves like Knock Off, U-Turn, the elemental Punches, and more. With its stat spread, you can have it use whatever attacking side serves your team best. While as a straight-up attacker it may lack a little, supplementing its attacks with its generous supply of support moves is what helps Mesprit stand out. It can use the ever-useful Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave or Toxic, Trick, Screens, even Weather, and can also pack Healing Wish to give a second life to one of your other Pokemon once Mesprit has worn itself out. The one and main issue it has is its lack of reliable recovery, which as a partial support Mon is what unfortunately gimps it from being absolutely spectacular, but its excellent diversity and usability with the stats to back up whatever you need it for helps Mesprit perform quite well in many teams.

As an example, in my team, I am using Mesprit as a bulky, hard-hitting Pokemon that can set Rocks. Its heavy investment in offense lets it beat or severely dent the Pokemon that think they can come in on it, though there's less damage than it could be, as I have Leftovers instead of Life Orb to increase longevity and allow me to get up Rocks multiple times if I need to. This is only one of the very many sets it could run. Think for yourself what you need, and Mesprit probably has something that can help you out.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Mega-Gallade for S rank. Reasoning is here:http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-shift-xy.3508369/page-13#post-5916827

Alomomola for A+ Rank.: Alomomola is simply to passive of a wall to justify being S ranked. Its Scald attack is literally only used for the burn considering it can only do about 14% on average to non SEs. Also there are some physical wallbreakers it can struggle with (Adamant CB Sawk). Its still the best Wish Passer with regen and high Hp, but it can be setup bait at times and just doesn't justify the perfect S rank.

Politoed for A rank: Yes it has Drizzle. Yes it does support one of the best playstyles in the game. But it offers little else. With no Support moves or reliable recovery moves its pretty much outclassed by other bulky Water types and sees zero play outside of Rain. Yes rain is strong but Politoed simply doesn't meet the criteria for S rank. It doesn't Wall, or Sweep the majority of the tier. And it can't support outside of Drizzle. And Rain can be prepared for and beaten. But since the playstyle is still so good its justifiable at A.

 

[Mydrel Kyenshi]

I'd like to make a nomination; Eelektross to c rank. He doesn't seem like much, and indeed he isn't, but he definitely does things. He's got great pivoting power with access to both u-turn AND volt switch, both being equally viable, and he has enough speed that, if he were to run brave/sassy/quiet, he can run 28 IVs to still outspeed mega ampharos so he doesn't get murdered if he lacks assault vest, or outspeed abomasnow-m regardless of iv spread and kill with flamethrower. He has great coverage and fabulous mixed attacking stats coupled with his movepool, and he even completely lacks a weakness beyond mold breaker things. He does, however, have a ton and a half of flaws that really affect his performance, like his most powerful physical STAB being wild charge, which recoils, the fact that his only means of recovery are non-STAB drain punch/giga drain, the fact that his pure physical or pure special coverage are both sub-par, meaning he has to run mixed, his only average (for TS) bulk, and his requirement to face off with mega aboma, kyurem, and azelf for a spot on your team as a mixed wallbreaker/pivot/etc. He still does his job good enough though, and he does have a niche in having a weakness exploitable only by mold breaker sawk as well as his gigantic movepool on the physical side compared to kyurem/azelf's reliance on their special sides with next to no viable physical attacks (never once seen a mixed/physical kyurem in my life, but I've been surprised before). Think he's worth enough to be somewhere in the c ranks.
Afterthought: He also has potential to break both politoed AND alomomola provided the right conditions. The only 2 pokemon in S-rank. So that's a thing.

 

[thesecondbest]

Zoroark. Discuss. I think it can make B- rank, access to stab knock off and sd makes it a decent wallbreaker. It's great when paired up with other physical attackers like zangoose.
EDIT: Why the hell is meloetta not in S

 

[a__man]

I think Pangoro deserves a rank... haven't played it enough to test, but so fat it's pretty useful.

110/93/87 is decent bulk, and 73 Speed isn't that slow, but 139 Attack and a great movepool makes it pretty great. Iron Fist boosts Thunder/Ice/Fire/Drain/Focus Punch and Hammer Arm... and it has Knock Off is always nice (if you're worried about Fairies, run Gunk Shot).

Band can 2HKO all Tier Shift walls with the right move, and Scarf is a great pivot w/Parting Shot. Sub-Punch and Bulk Up are also pretty nice sets.

1-one-1 it beats more than half of the A-/A/A+/S ranks, so I'd give it B+ at worst.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

Ok, I feel like I need to participate in this a lot more. Some of these may not be as accurate as I think they are, but you guys can argue with them if you want.

Pangoro to B+

110/139/93/84/86/73 (NU)
Abilities: Iron Fist / Mold Breaker / Scrappy
Typing: Fighting / Dark

This thing is very good at multiple roles, including bulk up, scarf, band, sub-punch, slow pivot, and a bulky phaser (if you are a mean person.)

It has a really good pool of abilities to choose from: iron fist (boosts punching moves), mold breaker (hits through things such as unaware), and scrappy (normal and fighting moves hit ghost types.)
All of these abilities are supported by a good movepool. Scrappy helps it a lot, making nothing immune to its drain punch/circle throw/superpower. Mold breaker lets you hit shedinja mainly, but helps out bulk
up sets a lot. Iron fist is boosts its elemental punches, drain punch, power up punch, and focus punch, making it very powerful.

It also has knock off, allowing your team to more easily take on pokemon such as gligar and other nfes. It also helps it against ghost types.
Pangoro is one of the only pokemon that is able to use parting shot, and with its bulk, it can also abuse it. It is slow enough to outslow most attackers, letting you switch into a powerful sweeper. They are then almost forced to switch, letting you set up if you are a set up sweeper.
It has more than just that too. It has nearly perfect coverage with scrappy alone, not to mention that it can also run elemental punches, knock off, and drain punch.
Drain punch works as unreliable recovery and still hits hard off of 139 attack after stab (and iron fist sometimes.)

It hits hard, can tank hits, can heal itself, can ruin nfe's lives, and has amazing coverage.
The reason I chose B+ was that while it can take on most of the pokemon in the high ranks, it cannot do everything at once. It is severely hampered by 4mss. It also requires a lot of prediction because of its awkward speed tier. It isn't as reliable as it sounds, yet it is still a great asset to your team. It is adaptable based on your team, and it has niches that no other pokemon can accomplish.

Victini A- to A

105/105/105/105/105/105
I don't quite understand why this was A- anyways.
It is a very flexible pokemon, with multiple useful traits. It can be a powerful revenge killer with scarf/band, or it can be a stallbreaker with band.
Its ability also helps it out a lot, giving it better accuracy on bolt strike.

Scarf: If it uses scarf, it can be an amazing revenge killer. 252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 277-327 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
It can accomplish the same thing with band, only slower but a lot more powerful: 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 415-489 (128.8 - 151.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is one of the best stallbreakers we are talking about, so this would work well on a stall team.
Band: If it uses band, it can be an amazing stallbreaker: 252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 282-334 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 237-279 (55.1 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Those are arguably some of the best physically defensive pokemon in the metagame.

It is a arguably better and more flexible than most of the other pokemon in A-
It is useful on stall teams and offense teams alike, depending on the set. It is a good all-around pokemon that adapts to your playstyle.

I agree with kingscrubber's post on alomo and politoed.

 

[insanelegend]

Update time since we have a lot of the new mega evolutions. A few others should also move as well for various reasons. Onto the changes

Mega Altaria: Unranked -> A+
Mega Sceptile: Unranked -> A-
Mega Lopunny: Unranked -> A-
Mega Gallade: Unranked -> A+
Mega Sableye: Unranked -> A
Mega Latias: Unranked -> A-
Mega Beedrill: Unranked -> B+
Mega Ampharos: A- -> B-
Mega Metagross: Unranked -> A
Mega Sharpedo: Unranked-> A
Pangoro: Unranked -> B+
Azelf: A- -> B+
Archeops: B+ -> B
Carbink: D+ -> Unranked
Mamoswine: Unranked -> C+
Alomomola: S -> A+
Dragalge: C+ -> A
Slowking: B -> A-

 

[dhelmise]

Reserving Dragalge and DROPPING CHATOT
Dragalge C+ --> S/A+

Name: Langur's bae Dragalge

Tier: RU
Stats: 75/85/100/107/133/54
Abilities: Poison Point / Poison Touch / Adaptability (Hidden)

What it Does: Dragalge is an amazing Special Attacker and Special Defensive tank due to it's hidden ability, Adaptability, being released. What is normally run on Dragalge is a Choice Specs Modest 240 Special Attack Dragalge with 200 EVs in HP, 12 EVs in Special Defense, and 56 EVs in Speed, allowing a Draco Meteor to OHKO some frailer Steel-types. Dragalge is commonly used for quickly eliminating threats that are on the opponents' team. Gaining this boost to every stat is allowing it to become bulkier, faster (even though it doesn't really need speed), and stronger, making it better in general.

Why this Rank: Dragalge can be seen in many ways, but due to it's boost in TS, it could be seen as a monster. A Draco Meteor could destroy a Swalot and others, due to the immense power that Dragalge has.

 

[sonicfan7895]

Hey, y'all. I'm reserving Galvantula, and nominating it for B- or C+ Rank.

In UU...
70/77/60/97/60/108 ---> 75/82/65/102/65/113

What else can be said about this Pokemon? One of the most unique typings in the series, and has an equally usable movepool at its disposal. Though not quite as large, it can pull off some valuable tricks that make it a likely candidate for the one of the rankings I feel it deserves.

Set One: Special Attacker (my set that I've used ever since Galvantula's inception)
Galvantula @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
- Giga Drain/Energy Ball

Compound Eyes on Galvantula is like tons of beer; you just want to keep drinking it to get more drunk. Well here, Galvantula is getting drunk on accuracy, because it raises the accuracy of all its moves by 30% of their normal percentages. So Thunder automatically becomes 91% accuracy, but because it got a power nerf in Gen VI, it's not quite as powerful as I'd hoped it would still be. Nevertheless, this set still takes care of the job. Thunder is the main S.T.A.B. move, and for a good reason; it destroys things. M-Pidgeot, Barbaracle, Blastoise (or M-Blastoise), Honchkrow, Starmie, sometimes Vaporeon, and Empoleon. All things in or below this tier that may succumb to the awesome power of its S.T.A.B. Thunder w/ Life Orb, which also has a 30% chance of paralysis. Boom, baby. Bug Buzz is your secondary S.T.A.B. move, and it may also lower your opponent's Special Defense by 1 stage. Also provides good coverage against the occasional Dark or Psychic-type that may try to get in the way. Hidden Power [Ice] provides excellent coverage to any potential threats, like Hippowdon, Haxorus, Donphan, Chesnaught, etc. Again, the power nerf on moves like Hidden Power really sucks. The last slot is entirely up to you. Giga Drain could be used to keep Galvantula on the field for longer, and catch any opponents off-guard when using Ground-types, whilst Energy Ball can be used to hit hard and have a chance of lowering the foe's Special Defense by 1 stage. Either one works perfectly, and can keep opponents guessing as they wonder why something this flimsy can be so powerful.

Set Two: Typical Lead Set (including Sticky Web) (set taken from Smogon's XY Dex Entry on Galvantula)
Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

While I have struggled to understand the nuances of the Lead set for Galvantula, I get it. Most Pokemon are based upon the ground, and Sticky Web makes the perfect choice. But it's pretty much just a modified version of the set that I've been using ever since Black/White. There's not really nothing else to say other than if you use this set you will most likely outspeed anything that will want to switch in on Galvantula, meaning you could attempt to get the quick kill. However, it could likely mean that you will end up getting yourself killed.

So you've read what it can do, but why these ranks? While Galvantula doesn't truly shine in the much higher ranks, it certainly does have its place, and I feel it should be either in B- or C+. The reason why I think, is because it has a vulnerability to one of the most common attacking-types in the games, and that can really hurt its chances out on the battlefield, especially against something like Talonflame or Moltres. But, because of its usage, its reliability to slow things down a notch, and its overall power and diverse movepool with plenty of coverage, Galvantula definitely deserves a spot, at least in C+ rank. With its overall stat boost in TS, it can do everything it once did even better. It can be even faster, and it can be even stronger. This little piece of irony is ready to shock your pants off and do it with style.

 

[Maniacr]

I would like to propose for at least B+ Rank. With Swift Swim and its boosted stats, Mega Swampert becomes an extremely powerful Mega Evolution in Tier Shift. Thanks to Politoed being so popular in Tier Shift, Mega Swampert is very useful. Unfortunately that is its downside.

Ordinary stats: HP: 100, Attack: 110 , Defense: 90, Special Attack: 85, Special Defense: 90, Speed: 60

(Mega ) HP: 100, Attack: 150 , Defense: 110, Special Attack: 95, Special Defense: 110, Speed: 70

Tier Shifted Stats: HP: 105, Attack: 115 , Defense: 95, Special Attack: 90, Special Defense: 95, Speed: 65

(Mega) HP: 105, Attack: 155 , Defense: 115, Special Attack: 100, Special Defense: 115, Speed: 75

With its terrible speed stat, Rain support is necessary if you wish to sweep with it. Otherwise, Mega Swampert makes for a great bulky tank.

 

[dhelmise]

dropped chatot and dragalge is complete