Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Notorious544d]

Manaphy needs to move to A Rank ASAP.

In a metagame where M-Slowbro and M-Sableye has revived heavy stall, Manaphy's Tail Glow/Rain Dance/Rest set crushes stall teams so well. Its 100/100/100 bulk allows it to set up +3 or even +6 really easily and under the rain, even Chansey takes 80%+ from a rain boosted +6 scald. It doesn't even need to run energy ball but its still an option for M-Slowbro (although a boosted scald will still 2HKO if it hasn't started setting up yet).

If that wasn't enough, the fact that it doesn't take a mega slot is the icing on the cake. With stall teams typically running Jirachi for M-Gardevoir, stall really doesn't have a reliable way to counter Manaphy yet.

 

[blinkie]

Manaphy needs to move to A Rank ASAP.

In a metagame where M-Slowbro and M-Sableye has revived heavy stall, Manaphy's Tail Glow/Rain Dance/Rest set crushes stall teams so well. Its 100/100/100 bulk allows it to set up +3 or even +6 really easily and under the rain, even Chansey takes 80%+ from a rain boosted +6 scald. It doesn't even need to run energy ball but its still an option for M-Slowbro (although a boosted scald will still 2HKO if it hasn't started setting up yet).

If that wasn't enough, the fact that it doesn't take a mega slot is the icing on the cake. With stall teams typically running Jirachi for M-Gardevoir, stall really doesn't have a reliable way to counter Manaphy yet.

Yeah defs agree with this nomination. You used to have to run Psychic for mega Venue but now you never see it anymore freeing up the moveslot. Megagross + Manaphy core is everywhere on ladder and Manaphy really fits right in with lots of bulky offense teams looking for a stallbreaker. It just 6-0s most stall teams you see on ladder.

 

[HardlySaucy]

Can someone please explain a few rankings I don't understand? Not that I disagree, I just thought these were much more useful than made out to be.
Conkeldurr, Sylveon, Hydreigon Zapdos and Thundurus-T all work really well for me, and definitely outclassed other similar things ranked above them. I found Chesnaught much less reliable then Conkeldurr, for example. Again, I'm not asking for a rank change, I just don't understand how they are considered bad enough to be ranked so low.

 

[Miridy]

Can someone please explain a few rankings I don't understand? Not that I disagree, I just thought these were much more useful than made out to be.
Conkeldurr, Sylveon, Hydreigon Zapdos and Thundurus-T all work really well for me, and definitely outclassed other similar things ranked above them. I found Chesnaught much less reliable then Conkeldurr, for example. Again, I'm not asking for a rank change, I just don't understand how they are considered bad enough to be ranked so low.

Conkeldurr does not outclass Chesnaught by any means, they serve a different purpouse, Conkeldurr is a Tank able to take burns, While Chesnaught is a Wall with an interesting type and ability, combined with utilities moves like Leech Seed and Spikes, the only thing they are actually similiar is being a Fight type and learning Drain Punch.

 

[Celticpride]

Can someone please explain a few rankings I don't understand? Not that I disagree, I just thought these were much more useful than made out to be.
Conkeldurr, Sylveon, Hydreigon Zapdos and Thundurus-T all work really well for me, and definitely outclassed other similar things ranked above them. I found Chesnaught much less reliable then Conkeldurr, for example. Again, I'm not asking for a rank change, I just don't understand how they are considered bad enough to be ranked so low.

With regards to Thundurus-T, a big part of why it's so low is that Thundurus-I is that much better, and you can't use both. If Thundurus is S-Rank or not is up for debate, but it's still very good overall. Thundurus-T does have a higher Special Attack, but it doesn't have access to Prankster T-Wave, Defiant, a noticeably higher speed tier, and a higher attack stat. Thundurus-I can basically do everything it's counterpart can do, but it can also go mixed, emergency stop sweepers, and outrun base 110's. In addition, with Thundurus-T, you almost always have an idea what it's running, Thundy-I has much more versatility and can lure common checks thanks to it's versatility. There's not too many teams that the Therian form would do flat out better than it's Incarnate form imo. The last time this came up most of the posts related to the Therian forms use on Rain teams iirc, but that was back in XY.

 

[thegrovylekid]

I wasn't really referring to Stone edge, as obviously like you said you wouldn't stay in on it anyway. Pidgeot is going to be the target of more moves with imperfect accuracy than just stone edge, and although a miss should never be relied on, a m-lopunny missing her hjk or Latios missing his Draco in situations where you can't afford to switch something else in could be potentially game changing. It is a very small disadvantage, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Not really. If you're banking on 90% accuracy moves to miss, prepare to be dissappointed. I've never seen HJK miss unless I was messing around with Glaceon, and who runs thunder or blizzard? Regardless, Torn-T is not better then Mega pidgeot in most regards. The only things it has going for it are it's ability to hold an item and better movepool. Mega Pidgeot for B-

 

[Punchshroom]

Regardless, Torn-T is not better then Mega pidgeot in most regards. The only things it has going for it are it's ability to hold an item and better movepool. Mega Pidgeot for B-

Lemme correct that for you.

Mega Pidgeot is not better than Torn-T in most regards

Mega Pidgeot has:
+ an accurate Hurricane
- a lower speed tier prior to Mega Evolution, which is a concern due to its fraility and mediocre defensive typing

Torn-T has:
+ access to hold items, such as Life Orb which makes it stronger than Mega Pidgeot, or Assault Vest to help improve its longevity
+ Regenerator which greatly lessens the need for anti-hazard support (people argue for Roost on Mega Pidgeot, most likely because EmPidge doesn't have much better options)
+ a much greater movepool which includes Fighting coverage, Grass Knot, Knock Off, which cripples things that stop / hardwall Mega Pidgeot such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Chansey, Mega Diancie, and even Taunt to prevent things like Suicune, Chansey, Gliscor, Clefable, and even Manaphy from doing much
+ doesn't have to deal with any 'lower speed tier' bs
- a noticeably less accurate Hurricane and Focus Blast (<- this can be remedied with Superpower anyway)

Now you may argue that accurate Hurricanes is all the special Flying-types are used for anyway which would make Mega Pidgeot a "no-brainer" choice over Tornadus-T, but when you are both giving up a Mega Slot and the coverage + longevity that Torn-T has just for the accurate Hurricanes, Mega Pidgeot suddenly seems like a much less appealing choice as a whole. It's not like Mega Pidgeot sweeps through everything either plus it is extremely predictable, so it doesn't seem like a worthy investment in the first place; at least Tornadus-T can keep the foes on edge with its longevity, power, and tricky coverage moves.

 

[astroboy]

Not really. If you're banking on 90% accuracy moves to miss, prepare to be dissappointed. I've never seen HJK miss unless I was messing around with Glaceon, and who runs thunder or blizzard? Regardless, Torn-T is not better then Mega pidgeot in most regards. The only things it has going for it are it's ability to hold an item and better movepool. Mega Pidgeot for B-

whaaaat? torn-t has the advantage of regenerator, and that's just... wow its so great with NO downsides. i mean, pidgeot's ability isnt bad by any means, but regen is one of the best abilities in the game and totally increases its longevity (plus with a lil more special bulk, and with an AV set its pretty effective)
also holding an item is amazing you're really underselling it. with a life orb, tornadus-t actually hits a little harder than pidg, and has the ability to get past a lot of walls that pidg has troubles with (namely t-tar)
but i mean, thats not to say using pidgeot doesnt have its advantages with super , but i just dont think pidg can be b- if its basically on par with a non-mega that can hit harder than it?

also

I've never seen HJK miss unless I was messing around with Glaceon

what

EDIT: ninja'd damnit

 

[thegrovylekid]

whaaaat? torn-t has the advantage of regenerator, and that's just... wow its so great with NO downsides. i mean, pidgeot's ability isnt bad by any means, but regen is one of the best abilities in the game and totally increases its longevity (plus with a lil more special bulk, and with an AV set its pretty effective)
also holding an item is amazing you're really underselling it. with a life orb, tornadus-t actually hits a little harder than pidg, and has the ability to get past a lot of walls that pidg has troubles with (namely t-tar)
but i mean, thats not to say using pidgeot doesnt have its advantages with super , but i just dont think pidg can be b- if its basically on par with a non-mega that can hit harder than it?

also


what

EDIT: ninja'd damnit

Glaceon @Brightpowder with snow cloak

I'm not saying Regenerator is BAD. It's extremely useful, especially on Mienshao. However, Mega Pidgeot doesn't need to take self-damage to hit hard, and a turn of protect definitely isn't bad to get your speed up, look at Sceptile. Mega Pidgeot has the excellent ability to hit hard while jelling momentum, something Torn-T has a hard time doing if it's constantly switching out to heal.

EDIT: KEEPING momentum, not Jelling it

 

[Karxrida]

Glaceon @Brightpowder with snow cloak

I'm not saying Regenerator is BAD. It's extremely useful, especially on Mienshao. However, Mega Pidgeot doesn't need to take self-damage to hit hard, and a turn of protect definitely isn't bad to get your speed up, look at Sceptile. Mega Pidgeot has the excellent ability to hit hard while jelling momentum, something Torn-T has a hard time doing if it's constantly switching out to heal.

Neither of them should be running Protect because they don't NEED Protect; Sceptile would rather run Substitute + 3 Attacks or 4 Attacks and is already stupidly fast before Mega Evolving, and Pidgeot is actually at a pretty decent 101 before it does so itself. I mean you could probably run it on Pidgeot because its options are so barren, but it's not like it's totally necessary.

 

[Arch]

It's still stunning to me that people think M-Pidgeot is frail and / or has issues M-Evolving.

 

[Froggyboy]

Flygon D -> Unranked
Flygon doesn't really have a niche that isn't outclassed by another Pokemon or just not worth it. Garchomp outclasses the scarf set, it is pretty frail, it is pretty weak without a Band, and then it gets outsped by most megas and easily revenge killed.
Flygon's only notable niches are U-Turn and Defog. U-Turn isn't really worth the power drop from Garchomp, and there are better ground types that can use Choice Scarf and U-Turn. And there are better defoggers than Flygon, like Lati@s, Skarmory, and Mew.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

How the hell did Flygon even get ranked anyway? Its damage output is shit, it's not even good at Defogging, it's not bulky, its damage output is shit, and... Why would you use this thing over anything in literally anything it can do? This isn't DPP, don't use Flygon. Scarf sets are outclassed by Garchomp, Band sets are outclassed by anything that can use a Choice Band, Defog sets are outclassed by basically every Defogger.... Yeah, no reason to use this thing. At least Zygarde is decent enough for people who want to use a Dragon/Ground type but think Garchomp is too mainstream... Flygon is just shit.

Just... How did this get ranked in the first place?

Flygon is very rank, and so we need to unrank it. Here's a gun so you can shoot me for saying that.

 

[Numera]

Lemme correct that for you.

Mega Pidgeot has:
+ an accurate Hurricane and Heatwave.
+ More power than AV sets, the ability to not be hindered by LO damage whilst still doing fair damage or the ability not to be locked into a move.
+ Knock Off resilient, increasing what it could potentially switch in on by a small margin.
+ Is immune to ghost, increasing what it could potentially switch in on by a small margin.
+
- a lower speed tier prior to Mega Evolution, which is a slight concern due to its fraility and mediocre defensive typing. 101 still outspeeds a fair share off of HO teams.
- More vulnerable to hazards.

Torn-T has:
+ access to hold items, such as Life Orb which makes it stronger than Mega Pidgeot, or Assault Vest to help improve its longevity
+ Regenerator which greatly lessens the need for anti-hazard support (people argue for Roost on Mega Pidgeot, most likely because EmPidge doesn't have much better options)
+ a much greater movepool which includes Fighting coverage, Grass Knot, Knock Off, which cripples things that stop / hardwall Mega Pidgeot such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Chansey, Mega Diancie, and even Taunt to prevent things like Suicune, Chansey, Gliscor, Clefable, and even Manaphy from doing much
+ doesn't have to deal with any 'lower speed tier' bs
+ Is resistant to fighting, increasing what it could potentially switch in on by a small margin.
- a noticeably less accurate Hurricane and Focus Blast (<- this can be remedied with Superpower anyway)
- To be more powerful than MPidgeot there's some form of consequence, whether it be locked into a move or taking 10% every attack. Alternatively, it can run AV, but that's flat out weaker.

Now you may argue that accurate Hurricanes is all the special Flying-types are used for anyway which would make Mega Pidgeot a "no-brainer" choice over Tornadus-T, but when you are both giving up a Mega Slot and the coverage + longevity that Torn-T has just for the accurate Hurricanes, Mega Pidgeot suddenly seems like a much less appealing choice as a whole. It's not like Mega Pidgeot sweeps through everything either plus it is extremely predictable, so it doesn't seem like a worthy investment in the first place; at least Tornadus-T can keep the foes on edge with its longevity, power, and tricky coverage moves.

Just like to quickly add that due to Roost, MPidgeot has longevity anyway, Torn-T isn't sweeping jack shit, MPidgeot has more power unless Torn-T is specs or LO (which is either locked into a move or doing 10% to itself every attack LOL) and that regardless of what you've proved here, there are still reasons to use MPidgeot over Torn-T and thus it's not completely eclipsed, only partially. I've also gone over your post in bold to add some points to both mons, as you've missed reasons to use MPidgeot over Torn-T, and visa versa oddly enough. Whether or not you were lazy or biased is beyond me, but I've added them so it's ok now. I've come to the conclusion, once again, that MPidgeot is not completely eclipsed, and that for me keeps it out of C. Adding on what TFL said and I really believe Mega Pidgeot should be B- Rank.

 

[craing ;_;]

i think there's a disparity between how people should be playing m-pidgeot and torn-t. pidgeot is moreso suited for offense paired with something like duggy that is able to spam reliable hurricanes to do dmg, force out switches and act as a reliable pivot that offers crucial momentum for its playstyle. torn-t on the other hand is self-reliant and is usually the support/utility of the team itself. not going to reiterate everything of what people already said, but torn-t obviously is the better option in most scenarios. better coverage options, bulk, recovery, versatility and handles a wider range of threats. the distinction between these two are that pidgeot relies on specialization in the fact that it can spam hurricane (fishing for confuse is also a great boon) while on the other hand torn-t is just a bundle of stuff in one. torn-t is often pressured as a pivot because of this, questioning whether it should risk a miss, switch out to stay healthy or midway plays in knocking off and uturning out. the reliability and offensive utility pidgeot offers is definitely its main selling point and shouldn't be overlooked when considering either of these two for your team. hope this clears any confusion about these two entities o.o . B- is a rly far stretch as far as it's ranking goes, especially if we are considering gren usage atm. C+ should be a fair medium imo.

 

[Tokyo Tom]

Flygon D -> Unranked
Flygon doesn't really have a niche that isn't outclassed by another Pokemon or just not worth it. Garchomp outclasses the scarf set, it is pretty frail, it is pretty weak without a Band, and then it gets outsped by most megas and easily revenge killed.
Flygon's only notable niches are U-Turn and Defog. U-Turn isn't really worth the power drop from Garchomp, and there are better ground types that can use Choice Scarf and U-Turn. And there are better defoggers than Flygon, like Lati@s, Skarmory, and Mew.

How the hell did Flygon even get ranked anyway? Its damage output is shit, it's not even good at Defogging, it's not bulky, its damage output is shit, and... Why would you use this thing over anything in literally anything it can do? This isn't DPP, don't use Flygon. Scarf sets are outclassed by Garchomp, Band sets are outclassed by anything that can use a Choice Band, Defog sets are outclassed by basically every Defogger.... Yeah, no reason to use this thing. At least Zygarde is decent enough for people who want to use a Dragon/Ground type but think Garchomp is too mainstream... Flygon is just shit.

Just... How did this get ranked in the first place?

Flygon is very rank, and so we need to unrank it. Here's a gun so you can shoot me for saying that.

Eh, I feel like you guys didn't read the nomination post at all...I never mentioned anything about Scarf or Band or whatever Flygon. The main niche is its Defog set because of its amazing typing and ability (with all hazards up, it only takes 6% switching in), and its ability to beat the majority of "mid-game" (by this I mean, more longevity than a suicide lead) Stealth Rockers in the OU metagame 1v1; namely, Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Empoleon, etc. Don't forget about it's ability to put the hurt on a lot of OU's Spikers as well, namely Klefki, Skarmory, and the aforementioned Ferrothorn, while taking comparatively little damage from each in return.

That being said, there are a few Stealth Rockers Flygon understandably can't beat. Clefable is the main one I've heard about, but I just wanted to say SR Clefable's utility has decreased quite a bit due to the prevalence of things such as Mega Sableye, which pretty much force it to run Calm Mind to keep up, or Unaware which generally needs the moveslots for Wish, Protect, Heal Bell, n' other stuff. Garchomp is another one, but Garchomp is a different case as it typically has very short longevity on the builds it's used on. The majority of builds that Garchomp is used on treat it as a suidice Rocker, meaning that it ususally sacrifices itself to get rocks, or doesn't hang around for more than a few turns after it gets Rocks.

Finally, Flygon's role isn't limited to just Defogging, it can serve as a utility check to things such as Excadrill and Mega Scizor.

If you need specifics:

This is what I would call the "optimal" set for Flygon to serve its purpose (of course, it can definitely afford to drop a little more speed if necessary)

Flygon @ Leftovers
Levitate | 208 HP / 148 Def / 152 Spe | Naive
Earthquake | Defog | Roost | Fire Blast

Overall, obviously not the best Pokemon in OU by any means, but a neat hazard control 'Mon that carves a small niche out for itself, imo.

And just a note, a bulkier spread of 208 HP / 240 Def / 60 Spe Naive can be considered if the extra speed isn't needed (admittedly, it really isn't a lot of the time) and it helps Flygon check stuff like Mega Metagross, Beedrill, and Kabutops a bit better (Jolly Meteor Mash only has a 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers, while Flygon 2HKOs in return IIRC. Also it has a very good chance of living a 252+ LO Kabutops Stone Edge followed by Rain Waterfall after Leftovers, while OHKOing with EQ in return after 2 rounds of LO damage - two unlikely scenarios, but felt that they were worth pointing out.)

But yeah, overall, remember I'm not advocating for the new like S-rank 'Mon or anything, it's D-rank, which means it has a tiny niche, and I think that's exactly what Flygon is in ORAS.

also thanks to .cuteuser ben gay for letting me know, didn't get a notif that the bae flygon was bein' attacked n' such for some reason, heartless users man gosh *-*

 

[Tramuntana]

I have to disagree with you tokyo, most of those ground-weak mons you put are enough bulky to stomach an earthquake, and jirachi and empoleon in particular can anihilate it with an ice type move (who they usually carry to better check dragon types). ay other neutral to his STAB moves just laughs of flygon and puts the rocks back at any time. ferrothorn and mega scizor in particular, instead counter flygon, either via leech seed or SD+Bullet Punch unless you manage to include fire blast on the set and it manages to ko them, but this means you either forfeit roost (in which case you won't defog very well) or a STAB move, which means you get screwed by one half the tier or the other, depending on which one you dropped. metagross mega also has ice punch in his overly-long list of moves so better you don't mention him. skarmory disabled by flygon just because he has crappy attack and won't fight back? LOL, i better stop trying to find sense of this post anymore.

seriously, i would rather prefer relying on a magic bouncer to keep hazards if i had to choose between them and flygon, and that's saying something

 

[Pooch13]

Back to Pidg vs tornadus, the difference is that for m pid you probably have to team build around him 90% percent of the time so its not actually takong the mega slot but its rather the focus of your team. Imo its like Mega cross who its better to build around its weaknesses rather than throw it in any team at random. Its not like lopu or metaG or gallade who fit in many teams easily.

 

[henry]

I have to disagree with you tokyo, most of those ground-weak mons you put are enough bulky to stomach an earthquake, and jirachi and empoleon in particular can anihilate it with an ice type move (who they usually carry to better check dragon types). ay other neutral to his STAB moves just laughs of flygon and puts the rocks back at any time. ferrothorn and mega scizor in particular, instead counter flygon, either via leech seed or SD+Bullet Punch unless you manage to include fire blast on the set and it manages to ko them, but this means you either forfeit roost (in which case you won't defog very well) or a STAB move, which means you get screwed by one half the tier or the other, depending on which one you dropped. metagross mega also has ice punch in his overly-long list of moves so better you don't mention him. skarmory disabled by flygon just because he has crappy attack and won't fight back? LOL, i better stop trying to find sense of this post anymore.

seriously, i would rather prefer relying on a magic bouncer to keep hazards if i had to choose between them and flygon, and that's saying something

Did you read his post at all? Nowhere did he say it's more useful or replaces the incredibly niche role a magic bouncer; they perform different roles regardless. Also, he ranked flygon D, while the next highest magic bounce user is espeon, which is incredibly unreliable to "deal" with hazards because it has no bulk.

 

[Clone]

I have to disagree with you tokyo, most of those ground-weak mons you put are enough bulky to stomach an earthquake, and jirachi and empoleon in particular can anihilate it with an ice type move (who they usually carry to better check dragon types). ay other neutral to his STAB moves just laughs of flygon and puts the rocks back at any time. ferrothorn and mega scizor in particular, instead counter flygon, either via leech seed or SD+Bullet Punch unless you manage to include fire blast on the set and it manages to ko them, but this means you either forfeit roost (in which case you won't defog very well) or a STAB move, which means you get screwed by one half the tier or the other, depending on which one you dropped. metagross mega also has ice punch in his overly-long list of moves so better you don't mention him. skarmory disabled by flygon just because he has crappy attack and won't fight back? LOL, i better stop trying to find sense of this post anymore.

seriously, i would rather prefer relying on a magic bouncer to keep hazards if i had to choose between them and flygon, and that's saying something

In what world Does Jirachi run an ice type move? That's some gen 5 shit and even then tht was an offensive set, not a stealth Rock set. Also Flygon is a better form of hazard control than magic bounce lol. Espeon is shit, Mega Sab has to mega evolve first and loses to Clefable, earth plate Lando t, Lando I, and Lum SD chomp, while diancie fare seen worse against a lot more hazard setters. And even then Flygon is d while Sab and mega diancie are in the a ranks. You're acting like Tom is nomming him for s. Flygon is good enough for D. I've used him and it's not nearly as bad as you say he is, which just goes to show your lack of experience with him.

Also Fire Blast is a thing on Flygon so Ferro and Scizor 'countering' Flygon is nothing short of being blatantly false.

 

[Chaoswalker]

As much as I love Flygon, I don't know how often it could switch in to get off those defogs. It can enter on Lando-T, and that's actually pretty awesome, but other than that... I suppose beating Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor is kind of cool. It could kind of deal with Bisharp with max defense investment, but there goes all your speed. :I

Looking at the other D ranks though, I think Flygon does have something to offer some teams as the defogger who lures and beats Ferrothorn.

 

[Emberclaw]

Hydreigon from D->B
Okay the jump might be alot, but the hydra is seriously underrated in this generation

The choice scarf set is pretty deadly this generation, checking many new megas like Metagross, Sceptile, Lopunny (Focus Blast). Heck, it is a pretty effective revenge killer for weakened foes. Literally nothing can switch into it safety if you don't figure out his moveset. Iron tail sets wrecks fairies, Heatran need to be wary of earth power, Chansey fears superpower, Fire Blast kills ferrothorn and skarm, heck, even Lando-T or Rhyperior might get nailed by surf too. People can get caught pretty off-guard by a physical set (105 attack ain't too shabby).

Seriously, it's CS set (most viable one anyway), is even better than Latios'. It has no weaknesses to pursuit and sucker punch, has a much better movepool, more physical bulk, access to mometum etc. etc. 5 less special attack seems like an extremely good trade-off for all these advantages. Sometimes you can even manage to bluff a choice scarf set while using specs or band.

Levitate is sweet too, with all these scarf lando-T running around.

But of course it has its weaknesses, such as being more or less helpless to most fairies without iron tail, it still has its niches in this meta, and is worthy of B, where it requires slightly more team support to function well.

Edit: As previously mentioned, LO sets are also deadly and can actually out a huge dent in many Ou teams

It must not seriously be in the same tier as Flygon and Steelix
Also a good teammate for metagross

 

[RufflesPro]

Hydreigon from D->B
Okay the jump might be alot, but the hydra is seriously underrated in this generation

The choice scarf set is pretty deadly this generation, checking many new megas like Metagross, Sceptile, Lopunny (Focus Blast). Heck, it is a pretty effective revenge killer for weakened foes. Literally nothing can switch into it safety if you don't figure out his moveset. Iron tail sets wrecks fairies, Heatran need to be wary of earth power, Chansey fears superpower, Fire Blast kills ferrothorn and skarm, heck, even Lando-T or Rhyperior might get nailed by surf too. People can get caught pretty off-guard by a physical set (105 attack ain't too shabby).

Seriously, it's CS set (most viable one anyway), is even better than Latios'. It has no weaknesses to pursuit and sucker punch, has a much better movepool, more physical bulk, access to mometum etc. etc. 5 less special attack seems like an extremely good trade-off for all these advantages. Sometimes you can even manage to bluff a choice scarf set while using specs or band.

Levitate is sweet too, with all these scarf lando-T running around.

But of course it has its weaknesses, such as being more or less helpless to most fairies without iron tail, it still has its niches in this meta, and is worthy of B, where it requires slightly more team support to function well.


It must not seriously be in the same tier as Flygon and Steelix
Also a good teammate for metagross

While Hydra is certainly underrated in OU, it is no where near B rank. And if it would move up, it would be for neither of your reasons.

The Mixed sets sucks in OU, Iron Tail doesn't KO anything, Superpower is actually lackluster unless you invest enough, and it suffers from heavy 4MSS, and the Choice Scarf set is decent at best.

IMO Hydreigon's best set right now is Choice Specs. Choice Specs Hydreigon hits like a truck, especially with Modest, since Timid doesn't outspeed anything significant. Just to give you guys an example, Fire Blast from Modest Specs Hydreigon is actually guaranteed 100% 2HKO on 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable. It's typing is also actually pretty solid, resisting Sucker Punch and Knock Off, while being immune to Psychic-type and resistant to water (Basically perfect Slowbro counter, and a good check to Mega Sableye). U-turn can be used on the Specs set to also gain some momentum. While whenever you want to drop a draco, anything non-resistant just dies. Even resistant takes a buttload of damage (unless heatran or something). Draco Meteor, for example, OHKOs Rotom-W, and does 83.8 - 98.5% to 4 HP Bisharp.

What's also surprising is that Dark Pulse is pretty spammable, 2-3HKOing a considerable amount of the tier, most of them which lack recovery (Heatran is downright 3HKOed WITHOUT any kind of hazards). It also has a few things over Lati@s, including Fire Blast and resistance to Ghost- type. It is however heavily outclassed. And would require a considerable amount of team support. IMO Hydreigon should be somewhere in C, not too sure so I'm gonna say neutral C.

 

[boltsandbombers]

While Hydra is certainly underrated in OU, it is no where near B rank. And if it would move up, it would be for neither of your reasons.

The Mixed sets sucks in OU, Iron Tail doesn't KO anything, Superpower is actually lackluster unless you invest enough, and it suffers from heavy 4MSS, and the Choice Scarf set is decent at best.

IMO Hydreigon's best set right now is Choice Specs. Choice Specs Hydreigon hits like a truck, especially with Modest, since Timid doesn't outspeed anything significant. Just to give you guys an example, Fire Blast from Modest Specs Hydreigon is actually guaranteed 100% 2HKO on 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable. It's typing is also actually pretty solid, resisting Sucker Punch and Knock Off, while being immune to Psychic-type and resistant to water (Basically perfect Slowbro counter, and a good check to Mega Sableye). U-turn can be used on the Specs set to also gain some momentum. While whenever you want to drop a draco, anything non-resistant just dies. Even resistant takes a buttload of damage (unless heatran or something). Draco Meteor, for example, OHKOs Rotom-W, and does 83.8 - 98.5% to 4 HP Bisharp.

What's also surprising is that Dark Pulse is pretty spammable, 2-3HKOing a considerable amount of the tier, most of them which lack recovery (Heatran is downright 3HKOed WITHOUT any kind of hazards). It also has a few things over Lati@s, including Fire Blast and resistance to Ghost- type. It is however heavily outclassed. And would require a considerable amount of team support. IMO Hydreigon should be somewhere in C, not too sure so I'm gonna say neutral C.

I don't know where you got the information that choice specs is the best set, and tbh it's a terrible item on hydreigon. Being choice locked into one of its stab moves is really bad in this meta, and the mixed LO set is devastating to switch into for balance teams, as flash cannon cleanly 2hkos clefable and earth power 2hkos non-av azumarill, while it can run superpower or fire blast for steel types. And don't act like something not named Chansey / blissey or a fairy is switching into one of its stabs.
Heck, specs Hydreigon is ass even in UU, where the dragon basically rules the tier.
Anyways, hydreigon is pretty solid in this meta and I agree with others that it deserves C+ at the very least, and maybe B-

 

[Emberclaw]

I don't know where you got the information that choice specs is the best set, and tbh it's a terrible item on hydreigon. Being choice locked into one of its stab moves is really bad in this meta, and the mixed LO set is devastating to switch into for balance teams, as flash cannon cleanly 2hkos clefable and earth power 2hkos non-av azumarill, while it can run superpower or fire blast for steel types. And don't act like something not named Chansey / blissey or a fairy is switching into one of its stabs.
Heck, specs Hydreigon is ass even in UU, where the dragon basically rules the tier.
Anyways, hydreigon is pretty solid in this meta and I agree with others that it deserves C+ at the very least, and maybe B-

I agree that B- might be more suitable, but definatly it cannot be in D.

Or even C