Metagame NP: RU Stage 5: Gods and Monsters (HOUNDOOMINITE IS BL2, READ POST #178)

[atomicllamas]

I'm pretty sure that Hitmonchan's usage can at least partially be attributed to Mega Sharpedo and we need to ddos blametruth.

 

[trc]

One of the two biggest threats to stall is gone, and the other can be dealt with by Quagsire outside of CB which can be pivoted around. I think Jelli's spot will be taken ;)

 

[mertyville]

can't we just create a complex ban and ban hitmonchan being used higher than NU?

 

[Da Pizza Man]

can't we just create a complex ban and ban hitmonchan being used higher than NU?

Problem is that will make it look like its BL2 and when we get rid of that ban the situation will be even worse

 

[Psynergy]

At this point I'm no longer surprised that Ambipom/Claydol/Hitmonchan continue to stay RU by usage. Doesn't make it any less disappointing to see them get so much usage though.

As much as I liked Mega Sharpedo that thing had to leave one way or another so I've got no complaint there. Mildly disappointed we lost Sharpedo as a whole though, always liked using regular shark in RU but ah well. Quagsire is looking really cool for dealing with setup sweepers though.

 

[Kevun]

This is pure theorymon, but I think if Mawile has a chance of being relevant in RU, it would be this set:

Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang

When I first saw Mawile drop, I dismissed it as shit, because of its crap stats. But, when I looked into it, I found out it actually has some potential, with a boosting move in Swords Dance, priority, and essentially ~130 base attack on its most important moves thanks to Sheer Force. At +2, Mawile can OHKO a lot of the tier's bullkiest things with rocks, like specially defensive Alomomola, Aromatisse, and Bronzong. The only wall it really loses to is Gligar, but running Ice Fang would result in a OHKO. Sucker Punch is powerful enough to pick off a lot of fast attackers, KOing Pidgeot, Sceptile, Jolteon, and Meloetta after rocks, and picks off many more with some prior damage. While its speed really sucks, its fast enough to outpace or at least compete with most bulky mons, like Rhyperior and Mola (unfortunately not Gligar, unless if you run Jolly and lose a lot of power). Theoretically, it wouldn't have /that/ hard of a time finding a setup opportunity due to its unique typing, things like choice locked Dragalge, Skuntank, CB Tyrantrum, Shiftry, Cresselia, etc. and has enough bulk to live most neutral hits. Tbh, I wouldn't really use Iron Head if you run SD, since the only relevant KOs you gain are Rhyperior and Granbull, while Fire Fang overall has much better coverage. It seems decent enough to be used at least, but idk if it'll be that good/relevant.

sexy calcs

Against slower mons:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 348-411 (102.9 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 419-495 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 363-426 (89.4 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 460-541 (151.3 - 177.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 270-320 (70.4 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after (Still strong af)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 395-465 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Fire Fang vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 328-387 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 183-217 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Golbat can't really touch you, so its setup bait)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 325-383 (75 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (OHKO w/ Iron Head or tiny bit of prior damage)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Fire Fang vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 187-221 (59.9 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Fire Fang vs. 174 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 764-899 (235.8 - 277.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 341-402 (86.7 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cresselia: 285-335 (64.1 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Against faster mons:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 225-265 (73 - 86%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 237-279 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 203-239 (63.2 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 460-543 (134.8 - 159.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 279-330 (102.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 294-347 (139.3 - 164.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. -1 160 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 448-528 (123.4 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
96 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 151-178 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, it struggles a bit against faster stuff that can take a Sucker Punch, like Tyrantrum, Pangoro, Houndoom, Drapion w/ EQ, and Hitmonlee, but Mawile's power is still pretty impressive imo.

 

[noobcubed]

Potentially might Baton Pass be more useful than either Fire Fang or Iron Head in that fourth slot? I mean, if we're trying to make Mawile relevant (though personally I want it to drop to PU since we really need both Fairy- and Steel-types down there).

 

[Djqubi]

January 2015's RU Tier Shift in a Nutshell

 

[The Lucky Absol]

I'll miss Gallade, it was one of my favorite pokemon to use in the tier. ;-;
Glad to see Quag drop though, I wonder how that will go.

 

[Djqubi]

Don't really know which Pokemon can set up, but 95% of the time, no one sets up other than something like CM Cress, which makes Quagsire's niche kinda useless. I've been using him since Sharpedo was knocked to UU by Mr.T, and although he is a decent defensive wall, I feel like Alomomola is better at walling.


Then again, I'm not that good of a player, so if anyone had a better experience than I did, then go ahead.

 

[The Lucky Absol]

Don't really know which Pokemon can set up, but 95% of the time, no one sets up other than something like CM Cress, which makes Quagsire's niche kinda useless. I've been using him since Sharpedo was knocked to UU by Mr.T, and although he is a decent defensive wall, I feel like Alomomola is better at walling.


Then again, I'm not that good of a player, so if anyone had a better experience than I did, then go ahead.

Unaware makes it excellent for dealing with slurpuff and fletchinder

 

[boltsandbombers]

Unaware makes it excellent for dealing with slurpuff and fletchinder

Same goes for doublade :o

 

[tehy]

And SD drap

And then i started using mold breaker sd panda

FARE THEE WELL SDDRAP i smiled a lot from using you

 

[aVocado]

Dragalge is arguably the best Pokemon in the metagame right now in my opinion. It just has the bulk, power, typing, AND stats to back it all up along with an amazing movepool that it can change around to its preference. The way I see it, Dragalge is the definition of bulky offense and it single-handedly made the metagame more bulky offensive, thanks to its pros that I mentioned in the last sentence. Choice Specs is undoubtedly the set people have been using the most, and it's probably the best set it has, but I wanna bring up something I noticed from playing around with Dragalge a lot (i literally probably used him on every effective team I made so far). What I noticed was that, from playing with both Choice Specs and Life Orb a lot, I seem to be preferring Life Orb in almost all scenarios, and there are a few reasons for that. One of them is the fact that it can use Toxic Spikes freely, and to be frank it's pretty much the best Toxic Spikes setter right now because unlike Weezing it has actual offensive presence and good overall stats. The other is the ability to freely change between its moves. The majority of teams right now carry both a Steel- and a Fairy-type, the former because Registeel, Bronzong, and Cobalion are all great stealth rock setters with the first two being excellent Dragalge checks and Cobalion being an overall good pivot with a combination of SR + Volt Switch + Taunt, and the latter simply because Aromatisse is common because it's a pretty solid cleric/wish passer, and Slurpuff is a pretty scary sweeper. That really limits Dragalge's potential and can open the way to some unfortunate mind-games, not allowing Dragalge to spam either of its STABs freely. With Life Orb, it doesn't have to predict as much, can abuse switches to set up toxic spikes, and in the case a Fairy switches into a predicted Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse, you can just KO it with Sludge Bomb in the next turn.

Life Orb isn't the end all be all item for Dragalge though, mainly because with LO, hazards, and the fact that it likes to often switch into a couple threats (Alomomola, Eelektross, Jolteon, Rotom-C off the top of my head) means it can be worn down a lot easier, and that's why I mostly always pair it with a Wish passer, usually Alomomola because of its excellent type synergy with Dragalge.

Note that I'm not saying Dragalge should be suspected, although I won't be surprised if it actually was (in the recent future), and I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I'm probably the one who underestimated this thing the most up until now, mostly because the other megas are so good and that it's walled by any Steel-type if it doesn't use Earthquake, and even then Earthquake can only do so much to Cobalion and Doublade, and can't even hit Bronzong. But I used it recently, and I specifically used one with Super Fang, and jesus fuck I just realized its potential. I used it alongside both Dragalge and Tyrantrum on a quick/kind-of-a-joke-team (I know it's overkill; that was the point pretty much) and it actually ended up working. The idea was to use Super Fang against Steel-types then tickle them a bit with Double-Edge/explode and if possible set up a layer or two of Spikes, which isn't likely a lot of the time but it's still nice, and thas seriously opens up the way for both Dragalge and Tyrantrum. Once the opposing Steel-type has taken a Super Fang, it can pretty much only switch in once on Dragalge's Draco Meteor, and after that Tyrantrum can have a field day just clicking Outrage assuming no fairies are on the opposing team. That was just an example for my case though, a simple Dragalge/Tyrantrum + Glalie core works, you probably don't actually have to use all 3 like I did lol. It really, really pressures the opponent's Steel-types, and I fucking love that.

Bottom line is, Glalie's access to Super Fang and a ridiculously powerful Double-Edge, along with a potential Ice Shard and Explosion is really amazing and can help a lot of Pokemon by luring Steel-types and basically bringing their HP so low that they're basically useless, and that goes a long way to help any Dragon-type or anything that dislikes the common Steel-types (see: Slurpuff). It's Ice Shard is pretty useful against both Mega Sceptile and Pidgeot, which is nice too.

 

[Expulso]

Dragalge is arguably the best Pokemon in the metagame right now in my opinion. It just has the bulk, power, typing, AND stats to back it all up along with an amazing movepool that it can change around to its preference. The way I see it, Dragalge is the definition of bulky offense and it single-handedly made the metagame more bulky offensive, thanks to its pros that I mentioned in the last sentence. Choice Specs is undoubtedly the set people have been using the most, and it's probably the best set it has, but I wanna bring up something I noticed from playing around with Dragalge a lot (i literally probably used him on every effective team I made so far). What I noticed was that, from playing with both Choice Specs and Life Orb a lot, I seem to be preferring Life Orb in almost all scenarios, and there are a few reasons for that. One of them is the fact that it can use Toxic Spikes freely, and to be frank it's pretty much the best Toxic Spikes setter right now because unlike Weezing it has actual offensive presence and good overall stats. The other is the ability to freely change between its moves. The majority of teams right now carry both a Steel- and a Fairy-type, the former because Registeel, Bronzong, and Cobalion are all great stealth rock setters with the first two being excellent Dragalge checks and Cobalion being an overall good pivot with a combination of SR + Volt Switch + Taunt, and the latter simply because Aromatisse is common because it's a pretty solid cleric/wish passer, and Slurpuff is a pretty scary sweeper. That really limits Dragalge's potential and can open the way to some unfortunate mind-games, not allowing Dragalge to spam either of its STABs freely. With Life Orb, it doesn't have to predict as much, can abuse switches to set up toxic spikes, and in the case a Fairy switches into a predicted Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse, you can just KO it with Sludge Bomb in the next turn.

Life Orb isn't the end all be all item for Dragalge though, mainly because with LO, hazards, and the fact that it likes to often switch into a couple threats (Alomomola, Eelektross, Jolteon, Rotom-C off the top of my head) means it can be worn down a lot easier, and that's why I mostly always pair it with a Wish passer, usually Alomomola because of its excellent type synergy with Dragalge.

Note that I'm not saying Dragalge should be suspected, although I won't be surprised if it actually was (in the recent future), and I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I'm probably the one who underestimated this thing the most up until now, mostly because the other megas are so good and that it's walled by any Steel-type if it doesn't use Earthquake, and even then Earthquake can only do so much to Cobalion and Doublade, and can't even hit Bronzong. But I used it recently, and I specifically used one with Super Fang, and jesus fuck I just realized its potential. I used it alongside both Dragalge and Tyrantrum on a quick/kind-of-a-joke-team (I know it's overkill; that was the point pretty much) and it actually ended up working. The idea was to use Super Fang against Steel-types then tickle them a bit with Double-Edge/explode and if possible set up a layer or two of Spikes, which isn't likely a lot of the time but it's still nice, and thas seriously opens up the way for both Dragalge and Tyrantrum. Once the opposing Steel-type has taken a Super Fang, it can pretty much only switch in once on Dragalge's Draco Meteor, and after that Tyrantrum can have a field day just clicking Outrage assuming no fairies are on the opposing team. That was just an example for my case though, a simple Dragalge/Tyrantrum + Glalie core works, you probably don't actually have to use all 3 like I did lol. It really, really pressures the opponent's Steel-types, and I fucking love that.

Bottom line is, Glalie's access to Ice Fang and ridiculously powerful Double-Edge, along with a potential Ice Shard and Explosion is really amazing and can help a lot of Pokemon by luring Steel-types and basically bringing their HP so low that they're basically useless, and that goes a long way to help any Dragon-type or anything that dislikes the common Steel-types (see: Slurpuff). It's Ice Shard is pretty useful against both Mega Sceptile and Pidgeot, which is nice too.

spoiler this post has literally no format and will be total aids to read :/

Draco Plate > LO b/c a) you can fake Specs, b) you can still use TSpikes and c) why compromise that excellent bulk?

but yeah with the ability to check the soon-to-be-released Serperior and Emboar this thing is only going up ;o I could actually see a suspect for it soon tbh

Super Fang Mega Glalie is so epic tbh, it's nice to use things like this to break down Steel-types. Especially as there are a ton of Steel-types rn, it's easy to make cores designed to wear them down and smash through opposing teams.
The "formula" is basically pick 2 of the following: Tyrantrum / Dragalge / Slurpuff / Mega Abomasnow / Mega Glalie / Meloetta / Mega Pidgeot (only 1 mega ofc)

Ones that get VoltTurn benefit from the presence of a Pursuit-trapper, like Houndoom or Skuntank. *-*

in other news, contrary serp comes out tomorrow; what do you guys think?

 

[aVocado]

Serperior will probably be running Dragon Pulse and Dragalge probably wouldn't take a +2 Dragon Pulse all that well. I like LO because of the overall boost to all moves rather than just Dragon-type moves but yeah that could be used.

 

[TheTraininator]

I CAME TO FUCK BITCHES UP​

(Contrary Serperior is released now btw)

 

[boltsandbombers]

(As is Reckles Emboar)

Only one more week...

 

[Froggyboy]

What does everyone think of a RestTalk Serperior?

Serperior @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse / Glare

Serperior really only needs Leaf Storm thanks to Contrary, and I see setting up to +6 not being too difficult. Meadow Plate is to boost Serperior's Leaf Storm without locking yourself into a move, and or taking chip damage every turn, RestTalk is RestTalk, and the last move slot is up to Dragon Pulse or Glare. You are going to absolutely need Dragon Pulse if you are going to get past Dragalge, though if your team isn't weak to Dragalge, first off, how the fuck, secondly, you can make a more defensive spread and use Glare.
Just something I came up with on the fly, but I think it's decent.

 

[The Lucky Absol]

What does everyone think of a RestTalk Serperior?

Serperior @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse / Glare

Serperior really only needs Leaf Storm thanks to Contrary, and I see setting up to +6 not being too difficult. Meadow Plate is to boost Serperior's Leaf Storm without locking yourself into a move, and or taking chip damage every turn, RestTalk is RestTalk, and the last move slot is up to Dragon Pulse or Glare. You are going to absolutely need Dragon Pulse if you are going to get past Dragalge, though if your team isn't weak to Dragalge, first off, how the fuck, secondly, you can make a more defensive spread and use Glare.
Just something I came up with on the fly, but I think it's decent.

Serperior isn't bulky enough with that 75/95/95 bulk to be able to run a RestTalk Set, and by investing in HP you lose out one of its best aspects; being able to outspeed most of the unboosted tier. Also, by running glare instead of dragon pulse, you won't be able to do anything at all to Druddigon and Dragalge. The last point I'm going to make is that Serperior gets giga drain, so using rest is almost pointless.

 

[Explorer]

I'm probably the one who underestimated this thing the most up until now, mostly because the other megas are so good and that it's walled by any Steel-type if it doesn't use Earthquake, and even then Earthquake can only do so much to Cobalion and Doublade, and can't even hit Bronzong. But I used it recently, and I specifically used one with Super Fang, and jesus fuck I just realized its potential. I used it alongside both Dragalge and Tyrantrum on a quick/kind-of-a-joke-team (I know it's overkill; that was the point pretty much) and it actually ended up working. The idea was to use Super Fang against Steel-types then tickle them a bit with Double-Edge/explode and if possible set up a layer or two of Spikes, which isn't likely a lot of the time but it's still nice, and thas seriously opens up the way for both Dragalge and Tyrantrum. Once the opposing Steel-type has taken a Super Fang, it can pretty much only switch in once on Dragalge's Draco Meteor, and after that Tyrantrum can have a field day just clicking Outrage assuming no fairies are on the opposing team. That was just an example for my case though, a simple Dragalge/Tyrantrum + Glalie core works, you probably don't actually have to use all 3 like I did lol. It really, really pressures the opponent's Steel-types, and I fucking love that.

Bottom line is, Glalie's access to Super Fang and a ridiculously powerful Double-Edge, along with a potential Ice Shard and Explosion is really amazing and can help a lot of Pokemon by luring Steel-types and basically bringing their HP so low that they're basically useless, and that goes a long way to help any Dragon-type or anything that dislikes the common Steel-types (see: Slurpuff). It's Ice Shard is pretty useful against both Mega Sceptile and Pidgeot, which is nice too.

Personally I love M-Glalie, too, but I generally use

Glalie (M) @ Glalilite
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-Body Slam
-Earthquake
-Explosion
-Crunch/Taunt

I like Body Slam for the paralysis chance, but I should probably switch it to Double-Edge. Earthquake and Crunch together hit Steels, including Bronzong, most Fire-types hard, and Jellicent. Explosion is the nuke. However oftentimes I run Taunt to make Mega-Glalie an anti-lead, shutting down hazards/Thunder Wave, and then go boom, giving myself a 5-5 matchup.

 

[Sleepless]

I want to bring to discussion a neat overlooked, somewhat unfair, feature of Serperior and it is his ability to be a great switch-in to Defog's, especially of Gligar's as the evasion boost can be a difference.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-201852783

 

[Chadtherest00]

Lol man I'm surprised no one is talking bout mega audino.

I was running a double stun version that I pulled off against a vgc qualifier

So here's my take on double stun this time around

Audino
Regen
Mega stone
Wish
Toxic
Thunder wave
protect

Give that I was told to give an explanation for the tech choices I will do so

To some exten mega audino can be used very well if played with the right tech choices personally I went with an old spec I used for chansey or blissery. The double stun. The reason for two status is quite simple in the sense of if one way doesn't work the way you wanted it there's always an alternative route you can take

For example if a Pokemon that can be poison is about to get safe switched you have a chance to predict and fire off a thunder wave. We all know by now it lowers speed and with a chance at a free turn why not?

Plus I spoke with one of the sites vets and asked for some suggestions and of course I got some very helpful answers
In the form of a wish. Wish + regen = pluses. In a sense of being able to switch out and giving another pokemon on your team some HP while healing yourself in the same token.

Although there are some issues seeing that mega audino doesn't have regen. Mega audino can still be played as a hard wal cover. While trying to find an answer you can keep audino as a regular audino then when you feel you have to pull the trigger fire off your mega audino.

Protect is prolly the thing I see the most cycable due the the fact that mega audino does get a boost in special attack there letting you use the helpful moon blast.

Well these are my pro tips and I hope some of you guys try it out for yourself and do tell me what you think bout it I've always loved feedback

 

[Chadtherest00]

I'm probably the one who underestimated this thing the most up until now, mostly because the other megas are so good and that it's walled by any Steel-type if it doesn't use Earthquake, and even then Earthquake can only do so much to Cobalion and Doublade, and can't even hit Bronzong. But I used it recently, and I specifically used one with Super Fang, and jesus fuck I just realized its potential. I used it alongside both Dragalge and Tyrantrum on a quick/kind-of-a-joke-team (I know it's overkill; that was the point pretty much) and it actually ended up working. The idea was to use Super Fang against Steel-types then tickle them a bit with Double-Edge/explode and if possible set up a layer or two of Spikes, which isn't likely a lot of the time but it's still nice, and thas seriously opens up the way for both Dragalge and Tyrantrum. Once the opposing Steel-type has taken a Super Fang, it can pretty much only switch in once on Dragalge's Draco Meteor, and after that Tyrantrum can have a field day just clicking Outrage assuming no fairies are on the opposing team. That was just an example for my case though, a simple Dragalge/Tyrantrum + Glalie core works, you probably don't actually have to use all 3 like I did lol. It really, really pressures the opponent's Steel-types, and I fucking love that.

Bottom line is, Glalie's access to Super Fang and a ridiculously powerful Double-Edge, along with a potential Ice Shard and Explosion is really amazing and can help a lot of Pokemon by luring Steel-types and basically bringing their HP so low that they're basically useless, and that goes a long way to help any Dragon-type or anything that dislikes the common Steel-types (see: Slurpuff). It's Ice Shard is pretty useful against both Mega Sceptile and Pidgeot, which is nice too.[/quote]


I liked sub versions of him

 

[pokemonisfun]

If you guys don't mind/haven't already I would like for Pidgeot Mega to be banned or suspected its too strong to stall against and its making me lose so many ladder points which is distressing me. I'd also be okay with just banning Refresh+Pidgeot or Work Up+Pidgeot.

edit: the whole dugtrio bullshit really hampers all my counters except special defense cressy which gets roflhurricane confused