Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[Sir Slaking]

I think Serperior should be placed as a B/B+ rank. It may have low attacking stats,but a free nasty plot courtesy of the new ability Contrary makes it incredibly dangerous. It sits at a great speed of 113, just above the 110 speed tier of most of the dangerous megas along with Thundurus, which means it has an advantage over most of the OU metagame. While it definitely has its checks/counters in the form of heatran or fast megas like Lopunny/MManectric, those can be dealt with. You can't just splash it on any team, but with the right support Serperior will straight up wreck most people. All it needs is a slow u-turn/volt switch and it can start immediately pumping out damage with leaf storm. What makes Serperior even better is that it's a fantastic damage source that doesn't take up your mega slot either, while also being able to use support sets. It's movepool isn't huge, but it's coverage is good enough that it has multiple utility options in the fourth slot such as Sub or Glare, which can greatly help/hinder your team.


The only thing that stops me from saying it deserves to be in the A tier because it's hard countered by the heavily popular Heatran. Serperior needs the team support to deal with heatran, but once its threats are gone, Serperior turns into a monster late game sweeper.

 

[branflakes]

It seems too early to properly evaluate Serperior's effectiveness in OU. On paper it seems really good in some areas, but even with the coverage it gets, it's not enough to OHKO a lot of things at +2 with a Life Orb. Heatran is one of the few (or only) things that actually walls the HP Fire set, but you definitely don't need to wall Serperior to put an end to its sweep. Mega Metagross, Mega Altaria, Charizard, Unaware Clef, Gengar, Heatran, Talonflame, Thundurus, Mega Venusaur, Celebi, Mega Heracross, Jirachi, Amoonguss, Chansey, Dragonite and Klefki are all pokemon that can either survive any hit or reliably deal with a +2 Life Orb Serperior in some way. And while in some cases this may require sacrificing something to stop the sweep, that doesn't necessarily mean Serperior will be pulling its weight in every match.

That being said, Serperior is still a really interesting addition to the meta. And it's really powerful with the right support and against the right teams. It's just really difficult to categorize because it's so unique. It's really the first viable Contrary sweeper and it functions differently from any other sweeper.

Should we hold off on its discussion or try to place it somewhere and let it shift around naturally?

 

[D_what]

Just wanting to clarify, but when you say "put an end..." to a "+2 LO Serperior" is this assuming that you're switching in on a Serperior that has already got a Leaf Storm boost, and switching in to the +2 LS will now put it at +4? Because if so, whatever switches in to that initial Leaf Storm has to be able to eat a +2 Leaf Storm (not hard) AND a +4 coverage move (harder), unless (like Talonflame) they can move first. But base 113 y'know?
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD (Mega) Metagross: 322-382 (88.4 - 104.9%)
I still agree with what you're saying though, even if some of those checks are a little hairy. Although (assuming) that I'm taking from the post what I've assumed above, that's only after Serperior has got that initial +2. If it hasn't and you switch in onto a +0 Leaf Storm and THEN it gets the +2, then nevermind! Moral of the story: Avoid sacrifical fodder when facing Serperior unless it's actually able to do something.

I still think it's too early to rank. It hasn't "settled" yet and peoples opinions are still wildly differing. We're getting there, though. Moar replays for preference.

EDIT: wait how does Gengar stop its sweep it still can't eat a +0 and a +2 Leaf Storm :O no comprendo

 

[branflakes]

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 242-286 (92.7 - 109.5%)

I guess I miscalculated that one before. My bad.

Some of the pokemon I listed above actually aren't reliably switching into a Leaf Storm. Most are, however, able to survive a +2 LO hit from full. This means Serperior probably has taken something down with Leaf Storm, grabbing a boost in the process. In that sense, it isn't really an argument supporting or denying Serperior's capabilities as a sweeper. I'll be honest and say that I still don't know how well this thing functions because it's really hard to evaluate it on paper. It actually seems like less of a sweeper and more like a strange wall-breaker that helps teams by forcing sacrifices when it comes in at the right time. Like Greninja but with a few more switch-ins since grass STAB sucks.

 

[Sochlo]

Honestly people shouldn't expect Serperior to straight up sweep a team from full, it functions as a late game cleaner and it performs that role incredibly well. You don't want to sac anything against this thing unless you have something faster that can take it out (113 speed tho) or a Heatran (Assuming HP Fire), making late game decisions against it difficult.

On paper this thing is incredibly good against stall, because most stall cores are too passive to stop it, but there are things like Jirachi and Chansey who can status it before +6 and Serp REALLY doesn't like any kind of status. You can get around this by running Taunt (admittedly a pretty good 4th move option) but then you miss out on recovery from Giga Drain/Synthesis and lose Glare. So how well it does vs certain playstyles is determined by what 4th move it runs.

Serperior has a lot of flaws as a Pokemon, but it has a well defined niche and it's difficult to ignore the amount of utility it can bring along with its cleaning potential. I think B- is a good place for it.

 

[Flarowak]

Only non-mega can switch in consistently. And still, even 252/92 have a chance to get the 2hko from fire blast, and non-mega Alteria is far too weak for it to be kept non-mega.

The point of having her is to tank the zards not hit harder than them. She doesn't need to go mega against zard y tbh. Despite not having the attack stat, she can wear it down easily. Unless it's a defensive zardy it isn't taking physical hits all that well anyway, and if it is defensive it isn't hitting as hard. If she can tank zard I dont see why she would want to mega. Switch in moght have a better chance, but that's what team mayes are for.

 

[Ptyra]

Any opinions on Hawlucha? Personally, I feel like it should move down to B, but I thought I'd ask you now.

I don't see why it is B+ honestly. First of all, it is weak without boost and it's rare to find occasions to set up. Then, there are many other better offensive Fighting types : Mega Gallade (who completely outclasses it), Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Mega Lopunny (also completely outclasses) and Mega Heracross. They all outclass it or have better niches.

Hawlucha -> B-

I also support Megazam's dropping, it doesn't deserve B+ rank imo.
It has litterally no bulk, so that's basically impossible to switch it. Yes that's also the case of Mega Beedril, but Beedril which is in the same rank has many advantages of Megazam : Adaptability which makes Beedril hit extremely hard with stabs, and boosted U-Turn which allows him to deal great damages and gaining momemtum.
Also, Megazam is not powerful because it has a poor stab and its ability is very situational, only Psyko is powerful. Its coverage moves lack power to achieve OHKO on many threats like Latios, Megagross. Megazam is not a wallbreaker, and there are better revenge killers. However, it has some niches but not B+ material imo.

Mega Alakazam -> B

 

[Roxachronic]

I hadn't even checked this thread for a while since I disagreed with alexwolf on a fundamental level, but it already looks a lot more accurate to me. The only mon I feel strongly about rising or falling is Reuniclus rising to C+, as its potential to sweep I feel is at least as high as Haxorus and Zygarde's, the other two sweepers in C+ rank. As far as the topics pointed out in post 89...

• Clefable to S: I'm not sure how much I agree with this. It's a mon that tends to be highly effective against more standard balanced teams, but not so much against very slow-paced or very fast-paced teams. I honestly feel a large part of the issue with Clefable is that people just assume Heatran can arbitrarily beat it by walling it and PP stalling it, when you actually really need Taunt, Roar, and/or Flash Cannon. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with Fable going to S though, it's one of the few mons I can think of that hasn't lost much popularity throughout the entirety of XY, so it must mean something n_n
• Tornadus-T to A-: Tornadus-T is either incredibly shaky, incredibly weak, or its both and is wearing an Assault Vest. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to switch in to, gains momentum easily with Regenerator U-turn, and is a major headache for stall teams. Its AV form is also a nice mon to use on aggressive teams, since its one of the few mons that can switch in to Mega Sceptile without losing momentum, as well as a few other random special mons like Gengar and non-Icy Wind Keldeo. With that in mind, I agree with it rising to A-.
• Serperior's initial rank: I used Serperior in custom games quite a while back, around MLuke era. It didn't impress me then, and it doesn't impress me now. I would even go as far as to say it's a gimmick; it essentially went from a PU mon to a PU mon with Nasty Plot. While this kinda helps, it's coverage is absolutely horrid, having only 2 non-HP Special moves that are viable, and one of those two being a non-STAB Dragon-type move. While it does have access to Knock Off and Aqua Tail, they're hitting things pretty weak off of a measly 75 Attack. All in all, using Serperior just results in the question: "Why am I not using Mega Sceptile right now?" Serperior for C- at best.
• Volcarona: I haven't really seen enough play of it recently to judge it, but at a glance it looks about right in B- rank; a high-maintenance, high-reward mon, similar to Mega Garchomp, Mega Tyranitar, and Lucario.

In regards of consistent damage Serperior actually outbeats M-Sceptile if you take their most consistent stab into account, for example:

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA (Mega)Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Unlike serperior M-Sceptile cannot use Leaf Storm consistently, it uses it as a hit-and-run tactic, but puts you on a bad situation if predicted and makes you lose momentum, on the Contrary(see what I did here?) Serperior Leaf Storm is completely spammable and also provides you with benefits, and if we take into account that Serperior is much better against Stall than M-Sceptile(aka the most used playstyle) then it is in that situation that I wonder why is it ranked A-? Sure you outrun M-Lopunny, but so does Scarf Latios/Scarf Lando-T which don't require a Mega slot.

 

[Albacore]

Hawlucha should not drop imo, it's still a really good cleaner. It has almost perfect STAB coverage besides Zapdos who is a rarity at this point, it has an excellent speed tier which lets it check a bunch of things (run Jolly btw) and puts in work vs offensive and defensive teams alike. I don't see how it's difficult for it to set up when it can usually take one hit (it's frail but it's not *that* frail, and it has a neat defensive typing which enables it to take on a few Pokemon like Bisharp and Excadrill quite well) SD up, activate its Sitrus Berry, and potentially pull of a sweep. Or it can just sub on more defensive Pokemon like Hippowdon, Gliscor, Chesnaught, and Celebi, SD up, and clean. Even without an SD boost it's not really weak thanks to its high-powered moves and can quite easily, for example, sub up on a slightly weakened Latios until it's to a range where Acrobatics KOs and potentially clean the rest of the team from there.

One of the most notable things about it is that it uses the ubiquitous Landorus-T as setup fodder which is pretty significant given how common it is and the fact that many teams use it as their only check to physical attackers, particularly Fighting types exactly like Hawlucha (aka all the things that have been mentioned as "outclassing" Hawlucha when they clearly don't and I don't think I should have to explain why). The amount of teams it just ruins is really impressive, people are not prepared for Hawlucha at all and it's very consistent from what I've experienced, it should definitely not drop.

 

[Vinc608]

Hawlucha should not drop imo, it's still a really good cleaner. It has almost perfect STAB coverage besides Zapdos who is a rarity at this point, it has an excellent speed tier which lets it check a bunch of things (run Jolly btw) and puts in work vs offensive and defensive teams alike. I don't see how it's difficult for it to set up when it can usually take one hit (it's frail but it's not *that* frail, and it has a neat defensive typing which enables it to take on a few Pokemon like Bisharp and Excadrill quite well) SD up, activate its Sitrus Berry, and potentially pull of a sweep. Or it can just sub on more defensive Pokemon like Hippowdon, Gliscor, Chesnaught, and Celebi, SD up, and clean. Even without an SD boost it's not really weak thanks to its high-powered moves and can quite easily, for example, sub up on a slightly weakened Latios until it's to a range where Acrobatics KOs and potentially clean the rest of the team from there.

One of the most notable things about it is that it uses the ubiquitous Landorus-T as setup fodder which is pretty significant given how common it is and the fact that many teams use it as their only check to physical attackers, particularly Fighting types exactly like Hawlucha (aka all the things that have been mentioned as "outclassing" Hawlucha when they clearly don't and I don't think I should have to explain why). The amount of teams it just ruins is really impressive, people are not prepared for Hawlucha at all and it's very consistent from what I've experienced, it should definitely not drop.

I used Hawlucha in XY OU (after Aegislash s'ban) and in ORAS OU, and i think it is better in XY OU. Your argument is valid for XY OU, because it was the same. Hawlucha is really good against HO and Balanced.
Even if it is able to have a free switch against common sweepers of HO, here is a common scenario :
- Hawlucha sets up a SD, the opponent switch into Landorus-T Scarf.
- Landorus-T outspeeds and goes for Stone Edge (~50%), Hawlucha is able to activate Sitrus Berry, and Hawlucha kills Landorus-T.
- Priorities like Megagross' Bullet Punch are able to pick Hawlucha off, assuming Stealth Rock is up (Bullet punch does ~40%).

In XY OU, Clefable was commonly used with a Specially Defensive + Magic Guard, and Hawlucha could sweep just after a little prior damage. But now, Clefable runs Unaware and a Physically Defensive.

In conclusion, Hawlucha was better in XY OU (in the post-Aegislash era), and i think it should drop in B.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

In conclusion, Hawlucha was better in XY OU, and i think it should drop in B.

Except it was completely unviable for most of XY due to Aegislash being on every single team before it got banned.

It also received a few new moves due to ORAS tutors (though sadly no Ice Punch) and hardly every Clefable is Unaware either.

All in all I think its much better in ORAS than it was in XY, but anywhere in B is probably fine for it as it certainly has flaws.

 

[Vinc608]

Yeah, i should have said after the Aegislash era. I edit my previous post.

 

[Masamune]

Why is Alakazam-M B+ when regular Alakazam is only C? LO Alakazam is almost as good as modest Alakazam-M, and certainly not four tiers worse. I mean, it has the advantage of keeping Magic Guard, and whilst Trace can be used to pull off some great plays, it's not exactl reliable.

 

[Flarowak]

Why is Alakazam-M B+ when regular Alakazam is only C? LO Alakazam is almost as good as modest Alakazam-M, and certainly not four tiers worse. I mean, it has the advantage of keeping Magic Guard, and whilst Trace can be used to pull off some great plays, it's not exactl reliable.

Honestly even with just his speed boost megazam has a great advantage over vanilla due to the fact it can outspeed a lot of crucial megas like lopunny, metagross and gallade. Although I do think Alakazam could do with a bit of a rise now though. Greninja leaving certainly helped him out a bit.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Why is Alakazam-M B+ when regular Alakazam is only C? LO Alakazam is almost as good as modest Alakazam-M, and certainly not four tiers worse. I mean, it has the advantage of keeping Magic Guard, and whilst Trace can be used to pull off some great plays, it's not exactl reliable.

Mega Alakazam's base 150 Speed stat is just that big of a deal. With it, Timid Mega Alakazam can outrun the entire relevant unboosted metagame (speed tying with Mega Aerodactyl at worst) while also beating even some faster boosted threats like Jolly Mega Gyarados. Even with a Modest nature, it still beats basically every unboosted Pokemon besides the few super fast Megas while still beating things like DD Mega Tyranitar (less relevant now, but oh well) and Adamant variants of DD Dragonite, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Altaria, all at +1. It even outruns some bulky DD Charizard X variants, depending on their speed investment. Alakazam can do none of this. In fact, Mega Alakazam is so fast that it can run a Modest nature and be both stronger and faster than a LO Alakazam. Plus, the lack of Life Orb recoil as a Mega means that it doesn't miss Magic Guard as much as regular LO Alakazam would. Not to mention that Trace has a lot of neat applications, which shouldn't be taken for granted. Overall, the lack of Mega Alakazam's raw speed is what makes LO Alakazam a lot less attractive of an option despite the fact that it saves your Mega slot, especially when you've got these lightning-fast Megas that Mega Alakazam can outspeed with a Timid nature where most other Pokemon would be outrun themselves. Alakazam's biggest niche is arguably its ability to run a Focus Sash revenge killer set thanks to Magic Guard cancelling all forms of passive damage, so if you'd like to argue for a higher rank based on a niche like that, feel free to. I just don't think it's enough to put anywhere near Mega Alakazam's level, though.

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

Short post here, but I just wanted to point out that metagross isnt as big of problem for latios as some are making him out to be. A very common and viable set latios runs is LO with earthquake, metagross can not switch into this set see below,

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Metagross: 142-168 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 122-146 (40.5 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I mean sure if metagross is at 100% he can survive this, but if he is at 100% then he probably hasnt mega evolved which means

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Metagross: 168-198 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I am pretty sure most metagross run a -spdef nature, but even if they dont metagross can not reliably switch into latios, especially if he is non mega because he then gets 100% outsped the next turn.
Idk I just wanted to point this out because I feel like people are under the assumption that metagross can just switch into latios and take complete advantage of him, which is simply not the case. And obviously metagross can have a different set with some more hp evs or a nature that doesnt affect his defenses, but I still think this was worth mentioning.

 

[kiloments]

Hawlucha should not drop imo, it's still a really good cleaner. It has almost perfect STAB coverage besides Zapdos who is a rarity at this point, it has an excellent speed tier which lets it check a bunch of things (run Jolly btw) and puts in work vs offensive and defensive teams alike. I don't see how it's difficult for it to set up when it can usually take one hit (it's frail but it's not *that* frail, and it has a neat defensive typing which enables it to take on a few Pokemon like Bisharp and Excadrill quite well) SD up, activate its Sitrus Berry, and potentially pull of a sweep. Or it can just sub on more defensive Pokemon like Hippowdon, Gliscor, Chesnaught, and Celebi, SD up, and clean. Even without an SD boost it's not really weak thanks to its high-powered moves and can quite easily, for example, sub up on a slightly weakened Latios until it's to a range where Acrobatics KOs and potentially clean the rest of the team from there.

One of the most notable things about it is that it uses the ubiquitous Landorus-T as setup fodder which is pretty significant given how common it is and the fact that many teams use it as their only check to physical attackers, particularly Fighting types exactly like Hawlucha (aka all the things that have been mentioned as "outclassing" Hawlucha when they clearly don't and I don't think I should have to explain why). The amount of teams it just ruins is really impressive, people are not prepared for Hawlucha at all and it's very consistent from what I've experienced, it should definitely not drop.

Of course Albacore would defend Hawlucha. (jk). However I kinda agree with him in that Hawlucha is very underprepared for. Sort of like mega lopunny. Different weaknesses and possible roles on teams, but they are both extremely fast and often difficult to play around. I'm not saying that you should be running dedicated checks or anything crazy, but considering Mega Lopunny is S rank atm, if you can check lopunny you can probably check Hawlucha. Be aware that this is not completely true and take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Kingler]

Why is Alakazam-M B+ when regular Alakazam is only C? LO Alakazam is almost as good as modest Alakazam-M, and certainly not four tiers worse. I mean, it has the advantage of keeping Magic Guard, and whilst Trace can be used to pull off some great plays, it's not exactl reliable.

Mega Alakazam is a great revenge killer versus rain, sun, AND sand teams (copies Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, and Sand Rush) that aren't common but most teams are vulnerable to due to their rarity. In addition, it's a great late-game cleaner that can clean up pretty easily due to its coverage between Psychic, Shadow Ball and Focus Blast (252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 220-260 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Metagross does like 50% with bullet punch). As Agent Gibbs said, with Timid it can even outrun +1 Jolly DD Gyarados and KO it with Psychic (late-game, Gyara quite likely won't have more than about ~55%, which is what Mega Alakazam does even to bulky DD Gyarados). Its Speed clearly gives it an edge over LO Zam along with the ability to take priority slightly better and the freedom to run Modest. B+ is definitely fine for it IMO, and it pretty much outclasses normal Zam mostly despite taking up your Mega slot.

 

[Flamebot]

Can someone explain why Omastar is B when Kabutops and Kingdra are B+? Imean personally I think Omastar is as useful as Kingdra

 

[Adamantx]

Can someone explain why Omastar is B when Kabutops and Kingdra are B+? Imean personally I think Omastar is as useful as Kingdra

Kingdra would have the slight edge IMO because it has (arguably ) better typing, better overall bulk (Omastar's physical bulk is a lot better but kingra's special bulk is a lot better than Omastar's, kingdra's are more even though), better speed so it doesn't get outsped by scarfers/boosted threats in rain, and a more useful secondary STAB that gives it great coverage with only it's STABs, whereas omastar has to rely on unstab moves to hit water resists. Omastar is significantly stronger, has some benificial resists (think Talonflame), and has interesting coverage options like earth/ancient powers, so it still has a niche, but kingdra has the edge.

Edit: Oh, and I guess omastar has shell smash if you are into that, although it sounds like that'd be really difficult to set up.

 

[p2]

Someone want to explain how Gorebyss and Venomoth made OU?

Smash Pass and Wonder Skin QuiverPass

Some people do want Gorebyss to be replaced with Huntail though, as Huntail got Sucker Punch in its new ORAS movepool, so it has something to deal with priority

edit: And I completely missed the other replies on the last pages

 

[TFL]

I would like to see

-> B and

-> B+.

I find Kabutops to be comparable with Mega Swampert in that they can both be played around by many teams. They have to predict certain switches coming in, otherwise, they lose in the 1v1 and will have to switch out and lose that precious momentum (and Rain turns).

Omastar is just so much more consistent. In most matches it's just click Hydro Pump, because it gets you calcs like this: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias in Rain: 162-191 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Bundy300]

Sad to see Zoroark will not even be acknowledged for D rank but oh well..

Now I will nominate another mon who is suprisingly not even on the rankings!

Milotic

Milotic is a solid B rank pokemon in my opinion. With 95 base HP 79 Def & 125 SpDef you can be sure it's going to be able to tank hits. I think the best way to use Milotic is defensively but let's take a look at his other 2 relevant stats. 81 Speed & 100 SpAtk. Milotic is pretty fast for a defensive pokemon and it's always good to have one that can actually dish out some damage even uninvested. Aside from it's speed are three things wich make Milotic stand out next to other bulky waters. One is his unique ability Marvel Scale. What it does is boost it's already good Defense by another 50% when afflicted with a status. I don't need to tell you guys that nowadays EVERY team spreads status, so this ability will be live. The second is the fact it has the move Recovery, wich is less special but very important. The third reason however is what got me sold.

I bet you are all getting fed up by all these CM Clefable's & Sableye's, SD Scizors & Bisharps.
Milotic has an awnser to this, it lies in the move Haze. Haze is a simple move all it does is reset stat changes, but it's the best at it too. It's better than Dragon Tail, Roar etc. Why? Because it does not make you move last, is not blocked by fairy types and subs. The whole + is that most of the time, milotic is going to outspeed what it Hazes. Switching in is no problem.


His set that should be used in OU is

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic/Ice Beam
- Haze

I don't really have much left to say, so I will give some examples showing how Marvel Scale makes Milotic even better.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 157-186 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 105-124 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 184-217 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 117-138 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 17% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 78-93 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 117-138 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

You can't tell me this isn't good. I don't see how Milotic got forgotten so easily.

Some more calcs :

+2 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I put them at +2 just to show how weak they are to Milotic. Realistically you wouldn't be hit by anything higher than +1.

I think that's enough for now.

 

[MrAldo]

Yeah, I agree with Hawlucha staying up in B+. Amazing STAB combination in fighting/flying, being able to hit mostly everything at least neutrally and this lessen the need to run a coverage move being able to pull off the sub sitrus set with SD really well. Fantastic late game cleaner as well, reaching a ridiculous speed after unburden unless you have strong priority (talonflame should be dead if you wanna pull off a sweep with this guy though). Also being able to set up against plenty of defensive mons including the extremely common Landorus-Therian is a really impressive feat. Also having a pretty amazing speed tier also helps it case, 118 speed is really good in this new ninja-less meta.

I dont feel it deserves to drop, it needs support but every mon in the B ranks need it and with the proper one it can excel on its job. It fits in B+ really well.

Also:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias in Rain: 162-191 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Holy shit, Omastar for B+. You just gotta click hydro pump :O

 

[astroboy]

Sad to see Zoroark will not even be acknowledged for D rank but oh well..

Now I will nominate another mon who is suprisingly not even on the rankings!

Milotic
View attachment 33832

Milotic is a solid B rank pokemon in my opinion. With 95 base HP 79 Def & 125 SpDef you can be sure it's going to be able to tank hits. I think the best way to use Milotic is defensively but let's take a look at his other 2 relevant stats. 81 Speed & 100 SpAtk. Milotic is pretty fast for a defensive pokemon and it's always good to have one that can actually dish out some damage even uninvested. Aside from it's speed are three things wich make Milotic stand out next to other bulky waters. One is his unique ability Marvel Scale. What it does is boost it's already good Defense by another 50% when afflicted with a status. I don't need to tell you guys that nowadays EVERY team spreads status, so this ability will be live. The second is the fact it has the move Recovery, wich is less special but very important. The third reason however is what got me sold.

I bet you are all getting fed up by all these CM Clefable's & Sableye's, SD Scizors & Bisharps.
Milotic has an awnser to this, it lies in the move Haze. Haze is a simple move all it does is reset stat changes, but it's the best at it too. It's better than Dragon Tail, Roar etc. Why? Because it does not make you move last, is not blocked by fairy types and subs. The whole + is that most of the time, milotic is going to outspeed what it Hazes. Switching in is no problem.


His set that should be used in OU is

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic/Ice Beam
- Haze

I don't really have much left to say, so I will give some examples showing how Marvel Scale makes Milotic even better.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 157-186 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 105-124 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 184-217 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 117-138 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 17% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 78-93 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 117-138 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

You can't tell me this isn't good. I don't see how Milotic got forgotten so easily.

Some more calcs :

+2 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 124-147 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I put them at +2 just to show how weak they are to Milotic. Realistically you wouldn't be hit by anything higher than +1.

I think that's enough for now.

what can milotic do other things cant do better?? i havent really used it but it just seems rlly passive,lackluster, and outclassed by other bulky waters. jsjs. i mean from what i see now, i really wouldnt like it being ranked, maybe someone can convince me otherwise tho.