Project ORAS Duo Destruction

[OP]

macle approved, credit to Ray Jay and Iss for the original idea and GlassGlaceon for the initial Gen 6 thread.

What's Duo Destruction?

The object of this is to post the best possible Pokemon that counter the duo posted by myself at the beginning of every round. The overall goal is to find out the best or unique ways of handling common cores in the current meta game. You may also participate in this by disproving others' cores and prevent them from earning points, while potentially earning points yourself.

How's this going to work?

At the beginning of a round, I will post a core or "duo." Everyone can then post one or two Pokemon that counter the core on their own. You must take into account situations where Stealth Rock is up on both sides as well as when it is on neither side. Your core must be able to switch into any move from the core and act as if they know exactly what you will do. You post must include the complete set(s) and may not have a Pokemon that is already being used in the current round. Include reasoning and how your Pokemon play against the core. If your post doesn't sufficiently cover why your Pokemon counters the core, you will not receive points. A replay always helps to demonstrate, but doesn't take the place of your reasoning. Feel free to question others' post with your own reasoning or a demonstration of how they might be incorrect. I reserve the right to take off points for competitively nonviable pokemon and false reasoning.

What are these points and how do I score them?!

If at the end of the round, your Pokemon is not proven wrong and is viable in today's meta, you will earn two points. If you use two Pokemon or a blatantly unviable one, you earn one point. If I or other users deem your Pokemon to not fully counter the duo, you will earn zero points. Lastly, I may award points for other bonus things such as disproving many people, having an exception counter, or great creativity.

Good luck everybody! I'll most likely be posting a new core every week or so, giving plenty of time for Pokemon to be posted and torn down by other people. If your Pokemon get proven to be unsuccessful or you wish to change, please delete your original post or edit the new one into it to make it easier for me.

Leaderboard

Stratis - 4
Pancham - 2
Fran17 - 2
Pawou - 1
Fiend Hound - 1

 

[OP]

Here's the first core! Got the idea from the Good Cores thread and that's where I will likely take more duos from in the future. Good luck!

Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 Atk / 200 SpA / 200 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Sucker Punch

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Thanks Inscribe for the sprites!!

 

[Pancham]

Shellos
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 52 Def / 180 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Stockpile
- Scald
- Infestation

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Shadow Ball vs. 228 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Shellos: 9-13 (33.3 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Shellos comes in on either of these skanks, and sets up Stockpiles all over their faces. While doing so, Gastly is killing itself with Life Orb, and Mienfoo does shitty damage, cuz it is a shitty thot. SO yah, Shellos slays this core, cuz Shellos is BOMB.

 

[Anthiese]

fuck off Pancham I was here first

The Thickness (Chespin) @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 236 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb
- Rock Slide / Drain Punch

Oh Chespin. How do i love thee? Let me count the ways.

1. Bulletproof keks Gastly's STABs so all it can do is hit with Sucker Punch.
2. Mienfoo cant handle Chespin boosting in it's face. Without Acro it cant deal signifigant damage back.
3. Chespin is totally cute, deserves points for that thought alone.
4. GG

EDIT: Relevant Calcs
With Eviolite
0 Atk Mienfoo U-turn vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Chespin: 10-12 (40 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Without Eviolite
0 Atk Mienfoo U-turn vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Chespin: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

i'll concede on that note but

madoka a shit and tried to beat foo with fake out + feint meowth what a loser

 

[mad0ka]

[00:28:56] @Mambo: madoka i dont see a reservation?
bitch reserving chespin

EDIT: jac a huge thot

EDIT2: hahah jac chespin is a shit and doesnt even work
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-201253162

 

[sparktrain]

Hippo has just enough bulk to work

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 20 Atk / 52 Def / 180 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Stockpile
- Slack Off

I'm sorry it hits such an ugly defense number, but Hippo needs every last point in HP and SpD to avoid the 2HKO from LO Gastly (and minimize the chance after rocks). If you switch in on Gastly, spam Slack Off until you're at around 80% or so and until Gastly's taken some LO/Sandstorm damage, then KO Gastly with Crunch, then spam Slack Off vs. Mienfoo, Stockpile when possible since it'll likely use Knock Off at some point, and eventually beat Mienfoo with EQ. If you switch in on Mienfoo, use Stockpile ASAP and get a few boosts while using Slack Off as needed, then go ahead and wear down Mienfoo with Earthquake, and take down Gastly with Crunch. If you switch in on Mienfoo U-turn... it sucks, but you have to spam Slack Off until Gastly dies to LO recoil and Sandstorm damage.

calcs

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Shadow Ball vs. 212 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 9-13 (34.6 - 50%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
:/
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 212 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 7-9 (26.9 - 34.6%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 212 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 5-7 (19.2 - 26.9%) -- 18.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off vs. 212 HP / 116 Def Hippopotas: 5-7 (19.2 - 26.9%) -- 18.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 212 HP / 116 Def Hippopotas: 9-12 (34.6 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

20 Atk Hippopotas Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 7-10 (33.3 - 47.6%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
20 Atk Hippopotas Crunch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Gastly: 16-20 (84.2 - 105.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

it's kinda unreliable since it relies on Shadow Ball never dropping SpD, Sludge Bomb not poisoning, Gastly not getting a bunch of max rolls, Gastly never critting, etc which is annoying because Hippo is required to spam Slack Off and pray it doesn't get haxxed, but it works if no hax occurs.

 

[doomsday doink]

reserving Grimer

jklol

 

[Berks]

skrelp + lickitung

Skrelp @ Eviolite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Knock Off
- Body Slam

RestTalk Skrelp nearly completely destroys this whole core. Gastly is OHKOd by Adaptability Hydro Pump, and Meinfoo doesn't come anywhere close to 2HKOing Skrelp, allowing Skrelp to eventually wear it down. Skrelp can function without its Eviolite, but it is suboptimal so avoid switching in on Knock Off (still survives everything tho). Unfortunately, Gastly's Shadow Ball is just barely a possible 2HKO, so we add a bulky Normal-Type. Wish support Lickitung is great, beating Gastly with Knock Off and providing wish support to the already bulky attacker of the duo, Skrelp. You can predict any switch to Foo and Wish, then bring in Skrelp, and everybody's dead. Voila!

EDIT: if we are not considering max rolls, Skrelp does a great job of beating both of these guys, and I feel that would warrant two points. However, I do have a question: is the pokemon listed first the one we're switching in on, or do we take into account every scenario?

 

[Pancham]

fuck off Pancham I was here first

The Thickness (Chespin) @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 236 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb
- Rock Slide / Drain Punch

Oh Chespin. How do i love thee? Let me count the ways.

1. Bulletproof keks Gastly's STABs so all it can do is hit with Sucker Punch.
2. Mienfoo cant handle Chespin boosting in it's face. Without Acro it cant deal signifigant damage back.
3. Chespin is totally cute, deserves points for that thought alone.
4. GG

EDIT: Relevant Calcs
With Eviolite
0 Atk Mienfoo U-turn vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Chespin: 10-12 (40 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Without Eviolite
0 Atk Mienfoo U-turn vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Chespin: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

i'll concede on that note but

madoka a shit and tried to beat foo with fake out + feint meowth what a loser

Why don't you just change the EVs to a more physically bulky variant? Seeing as you don't need SpD EVs as much, right? :O Maybe try 25/16/12 and see how that works

 

[Stratis]

Well you failed to give gastly substitute or mienfoo feint for abra. Also that is a weird mienfoo with no special bulk so focus sash abra easily kills both of those as long as it's the second pokemon you use and gets a free switch in. What this means is that the first pokemon you use is ENTIRELY irrelevant... sadly. I had thoughts of using the same strategy with choice scarf vullaby and rufflets since they are powerful and bulky enough to easily take SR + sucker, but honestly abra seems like the more viable and acceptable answer.

Well this first poke really doesn't matter at all... I guess I'll try to pick something to go with the "blatantly unviable" rule. I'll just use stunky since it fucks with both of these. I dislike the calc spread and I'm making this physical with play rough so I'll just use my own ev spread. Stunky doesn't really have a standard set. Stunky evs are so awkward (72 leftover makes me cringe).

Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: After Math
Level: 5
EVs: 12 Hp / 172 Atk / 140 Def / 108 Spd / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Play Rough
- Pursuit
- Crunch

0 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 12 HP / 140 Def Eviolite Stunky: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO

0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 12 HP / 140 Def Stunky: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Mienfoo Stone Edge vs. 12 HP / 140 Def Stunky: 9-11 (39.1 - 47.8%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

--------

252 Atk Stunky Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 10-14 (47.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Stunky Explosion vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 14-17 (66.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

--------

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Hidden Power Fighting vs. 12 HP / 108 SpD Eviolite Stunky: 6-9 (26 - 39.1%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Hidden Power Fighting vs. 12 HP / 108 SpD Stunky: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

--------

252 Atk Stunky Crunch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Gastly: 30-36 (157.8 - 189.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


You just hit whatever with a stab move, play rough, or explosion if you can do nothing and can't switch out. Play rough restricts sucker punch and defog sets but hits fighting types and pawniard better than dark/poison. Anyways, you can just ignore stunky entirely. I added the calcs though just for the the sake of the thread. I hope stunky and my version of it doesn't qualify as "blatantly unviable" since it could have been anything.

Abra @ focus sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
Evs: 240 Spa / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting

236 SpA Abra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 24-30 (114.2 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

236 SpA Abra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gastly: 38-48 (200 - 252.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So yeah. First poke didn't matter but I tried to stick with something that could at least put up a fight with mienfoo and gastly, and it wasn't just a pushover death fodder to switch into abra.

 

[OP]

So I wanted to see how hard this actually was to find a viable pokemon with a decent set, because all I've seen so far are people using two pokemon or Stockpile gimmicks. It took me awhile but I found one that's actually ok, Reflect Staryu! Because no Special Defense EVs are being used on Gastly, Staryu OHKOs with Psychic, without any investment. Afterwards it can wall Mienfoo pretty easily by using Reflect. I used a specially defensive version to easier take on Gastly, because Mienfoo wasn't really a problem. Can i give myself 2 points pls

Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 156 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Reflect
- Recover
- Whatever you want

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-201829181

 

[Stratis]

Nice I didn't think of trying to use reflect staryu to try and counter both. However, you might want to consider at least 36 evs into special attack to boost it to 14. Otherwise psychic only has a 62.5% chance to kill gastly from full health if there are no stealth rocks (gastly then dies to life orb) assuming that mienfoo is in the lead and hits staryu on the switch with knock off. Without Eviolite staryu would take a 17 - 21 damage sludge bomb and presumably die. If gastly dies to recoil after staryu goes down does that still fulfill the objective of countering both? Mienfoo could also u-turn into gastly after it uses knock off and then gastly has the potential to live the psychic and kill with sludge bomb leaving mienfoo alive as both gastly and staryu die. An addictional point to special attack on staryu fixes this problem entirely though.

0 SpA Staryu Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gastly: 18-22 (94.7 - 115.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Edit: I was going to mention that mienfoo might be better off using stone edge over drain punch to crit through staryu reflect but for the purpose of general counters I'm going to assume there's never crits and even with reflect in play mienfoo will go for the consistant 6 damage drain punch and not the extra crit chance (and less accuracy) with stone edge to do 15 - 18 damage.

Edit2: I noticed a second problem. It seems that max damage rolls on sludge bomb and/or sucker punch can kill staryu. In the case of your replay it seems you did not get potential max damage rolls. The max damage roll on sludge bomb is especially important.

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 116 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Staryu: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 16)

76 Atk Life Orb Gastly Sucker Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Staryu: 5-6 (23.8 - 28.5%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
(5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6)

16 + 6 = 22. This then leads to the question of whether gastly would go for that sucker punch to kill or could you comehow predict that it would sucker punch instead of another sludge bomb and use recover? I wouldn't normally expect a player with staryu to be able to predict a sucker punch in this situation. I don't think this area of forced prediction should be part of a counter though which leads me to believe that staryu doesn't always work as a counter. Should max damage rolls be treated like crits in a counter scenario? I ignore the possibility of crits but max damage rolls are always something I consider for these. The 30% chance to poison with sludge bomb is significant enough that also affects staryu potential to reliably counter.

 

[OP]

Nice I didn't think of trying to use reflect staryu to try and counter both. However, you might want to consider at least 36 evs into special attack to boost it to 14. Otherwise psychic only has a 62.5% chance to kill gastly from full health if there are no stealth rocks (gastly then dies to life orb) assuming that mienfoo is in the lead and hits staryu on the switch with knock off. Without Eviolite staryu would take a 17 - 21 damage sludge bomb and presumably die. If gastly dies to recoil after staryu goes down does that still fulfill the objective of countering both? Mienfoo could also u-turn into gastly after it uses knock off and then gastly has the potential to live the psychic and kill with sludge bomb leaving mienfoo alive as both gastly and staryu die. An addictional point to special attack on staryu fixes this problem entirely though.

0 SpA Staryu Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gastly: 18-22 (94.7 - 115.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Edit: I was going to mention that mienfoo might be better off using stone edge over drain punch to crit through staryu reflect but for the purpose of general counters I'm going to assume there's never crits and even with reflect in play mienfoo will go for the consistant 6 damage drain punch and not the extra crit chance (and less accuracy) with stone edge to do 15 - 18 damage.

Edit2: I noticed a second problem. It seems that max damage rolls on sludge bomb and/or sucker punch can kill staryu. In the case of your replay it seems you did not get potential max damage rolls. The max damage roll on sludge bomb is especially important.

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 116 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Staryu: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 16)

76 Atk Life Orb Gastly Sucker Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Staryu: 5-6 (23.8 - 28.5%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
(5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6)

16 + 6 = 22. This then leads to the question of whether gastly would go for that sucker punch to kill or could you comehow predict that it would sucker punch instead of another sludge bomb and use recover? I wouldn't normally expect a player with staryu to be able to predict a sucker punch in this situation. I don't think this area of forced prediction should be part of a counter though which leads me to believe that staryu doesn't always work as a counter. Should max damage rolls be treated like crits in a counter scenario? I ignore the possibility of crits but max damage rolls are always something I consider for these. The 30% chance to poison with sludge bomb is significant enough that also affects staryu potential to reliably counter.

Gastly actually has a -SpDef nature, meaning it's always an OHKO. If you're wondering why this nature was chosen, all of Gastly's stats are important to it, barring its bulk. Defense is better for taking priority hits such as random Shadow Sneaks, while having a lower SpDef will very rarely be relevant for Gastly.

For the purpose of this project, high rolls will be treated the same way as crits. They have the same likelihood and I see so reason to differentiate between the two. If we were to take account "hax" near nothing viable would come out of this project and there would be no point. As long as you come up with a Pokemon that beats the given duo a majority of the time, that's good enough for me. For example, although Pawou's Hippo loses to any sort of unfortunate luck, I will still accept it because it will beat the duo in more realistic situations than not.

 

[Stratis]

Gastly actually has a -SpDef nature, meaning it's always an OHKO

Is this a mistake then? That gastly you posted is Hasty Nature. Hasty is -Def +Spe not -Spd +Spe.

Did you intend for gastly to be Naive Nature all along?

As long as you come up with a Pokemon that beats the given duo a majority of the time, that's good enough for me.

Okay, this is good to know and opens up the door to more possibilities that can't handle max damage rolls.

 

[OP]

Is this a mistake then? That gastly you posted is Hasty Nature. Hasty is -Def +Spe not -Spd +Spe.

Did you intend for gastly to be Naive Nature all along?



Okay, this is good to know and opens up the door to more possibilities that can't handle max damage rolls.

Oh, I could've sworn I used Naive oops. I'll keep it as is, but the fact of the matter is Psychic will kill a vast majority of the time because of its already good chance to kill and the fact that after any prior damage at all from Life Orb or Stealth Rock it becomes a guaranteed KO.

 

[OP]

Points time!

Pancham

Shellos is p cool and beats the core. 2 points.

Jac

Disproven by madoka, Synthesis can be pp stalled. 0 points.

Pawou

Pretty bad set and shaky counter, but it works. 1 point.

HMBerkele

Putting in the '&' makes the hide tags act funny :[
I don't believe this core wins. If you can show me a replay of it working where it doesn't require prediction I'll give you your points, but for now 0 points.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-203228965

Stratis

Looks good! 1 point.

I think I made last round a bit too difficult, this time we'll have a balanced core using Stunky and Timburr. Goodluck!

Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 16 HP / 12 Atk / 224 Def / 68 SpA / 188 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pursuit
- Sludge Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 36 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up

 

[leingodf8]

Generic Vullaby Set
Vullaby @ Eviolite
116 HP / 236 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Overcoat
Impish
Brave Bird
Knock Off
Roost
Defog or whatever else you want

For starters I'll say that timburr's EVs are wrong, you have 196 def on a 55 def poke. Should either bring it up to 236 or drop it to 156. I would suggest the 156 route, since then you can have 76 HP and 36 Atk.

Anwyays, against timburr vullaby will lose on the switch in if it uses bulk up (outside the fringe chance vullaby manages to get absolutely maximum damage rolls both times). Without throwing all the calcs out there, it basically ends with a timburr sitting in the red / low yellow at +1/+1 or +2/+2 and a dead vullaby. But any other situation vullaby will win.

As for stunky, vullaby wins a long slow roost battle. If stunky manages to poison vullaby right away theres a chance it will win.

0 Atk Vullaby Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 16 HP / 224 Def Eviolite Stunky: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
(3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)

0 Atk Vullaby Brave Bird vs. 16 HP / 224 Def Stunky: 12-15 (52.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15)

68 SpA Stunky Sludge Bomb vs. 116 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 6-7 (24 - 28%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
(6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7)

If it gets its eviolite knocked off it will lose if it is poisoned but otherwise would win.
68 SpA Stunky Sludge Bomb vs. 116 HP / 76 SpD Vullaby: 7-10 (28 - 40%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
(7, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)

 

[Tricking]

Fletchling @ Berry Juice
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 252 Def / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Substitute

This set, I've used in one of my teams so far (so it isn't gimmick!) can set up to +4 against Stunky and Timburr and KO them easily.

Relevant calcs:

Hide

68 SpA Stunky Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Fletchling: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO => ACTIVES BERRY JUICE
196 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 172 Def Fletchling: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO => ACTIVES BERRY JUICE
0 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 156 HP / 252 Def Fletchling: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO => ACTIVES BERRY JUICE
0 Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 156 HP / 252 Def Fletchling: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 85.5% chance to 3HKO => worst case scenario, but Fletch still wins.
+4 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 16 HP / 224 Def Eviolite Stunky: 25-30 (108.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 76 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 50-60 (200 - 240%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Fiend]

Zubat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Atk / 196 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Curse
- Taunt

If on switched in on Timburr: Switch in --> Taunt --> Roost --> Roost --> Taunt --> Curse --> Roost --> Brave Bird --> Roost -->. Brave Bird. Here Timburr should be dead; if not (ie they Drain Punch at some point or something odd) Roost and Brave Bird once more.

Now you should live a Fire blast from Stunky, so just Roost + Curse + Roost and then Brave Bird twice. You might need to Roost in between Brave Birds however.


If on switched in on Stunky: Switch in --> Roost + Curse up to +3. Brave Bird once, Roost, Brave Bird again.
Timburr now dies from Brave Bird and you live any of its attacks.

Ecna is the amazing artist.​

 

[Stratis]

Fletchling doesn't work with Stealth rocks on the field.

5 damage knocks fletch to 16 health. Knock off does minimum 7 damage which brings fletchling to 9 health. Drain punch does 9 damage minimum which would finish fletchling off. Acrobatics can not ohko timburr obviously.

196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 76 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 18-24 (72 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For your knock off calc you say it's the worst case scenario but that fletchling still wins. Are you not including stealth rocks damage from switching fletchling in?

 

[Stratis]

Shellos @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 hp / 132 Def / 100 Spd / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
-Stockpile
-Scald
-Recover
-Clear Smog

36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 7-9 (25.9 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

+1 36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 9-12 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. +3 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 4-6 (14.8 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. +3 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 3-4 (11.1 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO

36 Atk Guts Timburr Drain Punch vs. +3 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 4-6 (14.8 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 36 Atk Guts Timburr Drain Punch vs. +3 228 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Shellos: 6-7 (22.2 - 25.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

-----

0 SpA Shellos Clear Smog vs. 76 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 3-4 (12 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

0 SpA Shellos Scald vs. 76 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 6-7 (24 - 28%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO

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30 SpA Stunky Sludge Bomb vs. 228 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Shellos: 6-7 (22.2 - 25.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

68 SpA Stunky Sludge Bomb vs. +3 228 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Shellos: 3-4 (11.1 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO

0 SpA Shellos Scald vs. 16 HP / 188+ SpD Eviolite Stunky: 6-7 (26 - 30.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO after burn damage

Standard Shellos set. Switch in, stockpile, and kill stuff. Guts boost from scald doesn't even matter once shellos is +3 defense. Lots of speed ties with timburr

Wooper does the same thing here but with unaware + curse/stockpile instead of clear smog + stockpile.

Rest skrelp was an idea as well but I didn't like the damage that knock off spam from timburr does. Acid armor skrelp would be a strange move to carry on it.

 

[apt-get]

Archen @ Eviolite
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 156 hp / 236 def / 76 spd / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
-Roost
-Knock Off
-Iron Defense
-Acrobatics

24 - 6 from SR = 18 hp.

36 Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 156 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Archen: 5-7 (20.8 - 29.1%) -- 81.1% chance to 4HKO
36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 156 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Archen: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. +2 156 HP / 236+ Def Archen: 6-7 (25 - 29.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+6 36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. +6 156 HP / 236+ Def Archen: 9-12 (37.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

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0 Atk Archen Knock Off vs. 76 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 3-4 (12 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 76 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 30-36 (120 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 76 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 20-26 (80 - 104%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +2 76 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 14-20 (56 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +3 76 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +6 76 HP / 156 Def Timburr: 8-12 (32 - 48%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO (luckily timburr would never have time to get this high)

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68 SpA Stunky Sludge Bomb vs. 156 HP / 76 SpD Archen: 4-6 (16.6 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
12 Atk Stunky Sucker Punch vs. 156 HP / 236+ Def Archen: 7-10 (29.1 - 41.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO

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0 Atk Archen Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 16 HP / 224 Def Eviolite Stunky: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Archen Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 16 HP / 224 Def Stunky: 7-10 (30.4 - 43.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO


Switching in on timburr archen can easily set up iron defense boosts faster than timburr can boost with bulk up. From there archen can roost, knock off timburrs eviolite, and attack with acrobatics. Stunky is entirely irrelevant in this match up since the hardest thing it can hit Archen with is a resisted sludge bomb (archen can roost/iron defense during a sucker punch). Archen absolutely annihilates that stunky set.

Once the iron defense, bulk up, drain punch, roost, knock off, acrobatics battle between timburr and archen is other then stunky just dies. Timburr can not boost quickly enough or outheal archen's damage with drain punch and even if it could acrobatics has 8 more pp than drain punch.

Just for fun lets say you use air cutter archen instead of acrobatics and use a Bold Nature to simply serve as a quicker/stronger counter to timburr.

0 SpA Archen Air Cutter vs. 76 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 8-12 (32 - 48%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Archen Air Cutter vs. 76 HP / 236+ SpD Timburr: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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0 SpA Archen Air Cutter vs. 16 HP / 188+ SpD Eviolite Stunky: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Archen Air Cutter vs. 16 HP / 188+ SpD Stunky: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

Reminder that roost makes it so drain punch is SE against you.

Would you still win?

 

[Stratis]

That version of Vullaby does not work because it can not reliably kill timburr. Even if it could kill timburr it would take too much damage and be revenge killed by stunky sludge bomb.

25 - 6 from rocks = 19 hp vullaby

Lets assume that timburr uses bulk up when vullaby switches in.

0 Atk Vullaby Brave Bird vs. +1 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)

+1 36 Atk Timburr Knock Off vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Vullaby: 3-4 (12 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

+1 36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Vullaby: 10-13 (40 - 52%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
(10, 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13)

19 - 3 = 16 - 4 from recoil = 12 hp vullaby

25 - 12 = 13 hp Timbur

From here vullaby can not attack again and is forced to roost because recoil would take it's health too low and it would be in range for stunky to kill it with sludge bomb. ALSO it would not even kill timburr and timburr would live on 1 hitpoint and kill vullaby with a drain punch. If Vullaby roosts it will take 24 damage from a super effective drain punch and die.

If vullaby uses knock off first then it would go like this.

0 Atk Vullaby Knock Off vs. +1 76 HP / 76+ Def Timburr: 2-3 (8 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO

+1 36 Atk Timburr Knock Off vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Vullaby: 3-4 (12 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

19 - 3 = 16 hp vullaby

25 - 2 = 23 hp Timburr

+1 36 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Vullaby: 10-13 (40 - 52%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
(10, 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13)

0 Atk Vullaby Brave Bird vs. +1 76 HP / 76+ Def Timburr: 14-20 (56 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 20)

23 - 18 = 5 hp timburr

17 - 12 = 5 - 6 from brave bird recoil = dead vullaby.

I can not find a scenario in which vullaby reliably counters this dou or even kills timburr.

 

[Stratis]

Reminder that roost makes it so drain punch is SE against you.

Would you still win?

No, I checked the calculations again and it would be unlikey to beat timburr. I absentmindedly didn't consider that fighting would be SE against archen after roost. Luckily you caught that right away.

 

[Anthiese]

Macle's Blog (Croagunk) @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up

Lordly mon, Lordly set. Bulk up is assurance to run through them more easily, with my great resistances I have little to no troublw dealing with them. Nothing they have will avert me.

>FIRE BLAST THE GUNK SLAYER
25% boost aint shit to me, i got some lotion with aloe vera to soothe muh skin

FEAST YOUR EYES

Calcs vs Stunky

Croagunk's Moves (select one to show detailed results)
Drain Punch 30.4 - 39.1%
Gunk Shot 21.7 - 26%
Knock Off 8.6 - 13%

Stunky's Moves (select one to show detailed results)
Sucker Punch 13.6 - 18.1%
Fire Blast 22.7 - 31.8%
Sludge Bomb 13.6 - 13.6%
Pursuit 9 - 13.6%

Calcs vs Timburr with Eviolite

Croagunk's Moves (select one to show detailed results)
Drain Punch 28 - 36%
Gunk Shot 40 - 52%
Knock Off 8 - 12%

Timburr's Moves (select one to show detailed results)
Drain Punch 13.6 - 22.7%
Knock Off 13.6 - 18.1%
Mach Punch 9 - 13.6%

Calcs vs Timburr without Eviolite

Croagunk's Moves (select one to show detailed results)
Drain Punch 36 - 48%
Gunk Shot 60 - 72%
Knock Off 8 - 12%

Timburr's Moves (select one to show detailed results)
Drain Punch 22.7 - 27.2%
Knock Off 13.6 - 18.1%
Mach Punch 13.6 - 18.1%