Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[Wargreymon]

Since the decline of Thundurus is real, what's Clefable's best set in this meta? Should it go back to being physically defensive or should you still run some spdef?

 

[ThePack]

Since the decline of Thundurus is real, what's Clefable's best set in this meta? Should it go back to being physically defensive or should you still run some spdef?

Thundurus is still a huge threat in the tier, one you should definitely prepare for, as it often catches teams off-guard, so you should definitely run SpDef on Clef. It also helps for things like Mega Manectric and Keldeo, which are threats.
The Clefable analysis thread recommends a spread of 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD Calm Nature to have a 94.1% chance of avoiding a 2HKO from Mega Lopunny and take on other physical mons better, while also being able to take on mons like LO Thundy.

Calcs

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 169-200 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 179-212 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[D_what]

Is there any point in investing into an offensive Suicune's Speed? Particularly if running Tailwind. 85 isn't a particularly common speed stat, so I'm not sure. Also, is Diamond Storm worth considering on a Timid MDiancie, purely as an alternative to a (notably not-existing) Special Rock move, considering its high BP and MDiancie's naturally high Atk stat? Or is special coverage preferable to a weakened STAB physical move :?

 

[Norne]

Is there any point in investing into an offensive Suicune's Speed? Particularly if running Tailwind. 85 isn't a particularly common speed stat, so I'm not sure. Also, is Diamond Storm worth considering on a Timid MDiancie, purely as an alternative to a (notably not-existing) Special Rock move, considering its high BP and MDiancie's naturally high Atk stat? Or is special coverage preferable to a weakened STAB physical move :?

Just run Naive on Diancie, DS is a great move to have with good coverage.

As of suicune, I'm not sure about a magical number here as the important threats new a decent investment to outspeed and losing bulk will backfire you a lot.

 

[bludz]

Thundurus is still a huge threat in the tier, one you should definitely prepare for, as it often catches teams off-guard, so you should definitely run SpDef on Clef. It also helps for things like Mega Manectric and Keldeo, which are threats.
The Clefable analysis thread recommends a spread of 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD Calm Nature to have a 94.1% chance of avoiding a 2HKO from Mega Lopunny and take on other physical mons better, while also being able to take on mons like LO Thundy.

Calcs

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 169-200 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 179-212 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think there is a little leeway here depending on specifically what you want, but this spread is basically very legit. BTW totally agreed on Thundurus... it is still very threatening.

I'm personally running 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD Calm to always avoid the 2HKO from Latios' Psyshock since that's the switch-in I wanted to be the most reliable. I'll leave the same calcs below for comparison -- not saying my spread is better (hell it's basically the same) -- just to show the minor differences. Leaving out Manectric since LO Thundurus is stronger anyway.

Calcs

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Clefable: 178-211 (45.1 - 53.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Clefable: 172-203 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Clefable: 175-208 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Clefable: 178-211 (45.1 - 53.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[M BLADE]

Aggron had Rock Polish, a higher attack stat and actually passable defences. Even in RU Dragon Dance is considered awful, and I honestly don't see how Rock Head substantially changes it to such a degree where it's suddenly viable. It's still easily worn down, still easy to deal with and still outclassed. By the time you've Dragon Danced with... just about any better DDers which there are a lot of in OU, you aren't exactly missing the power of head smash.
Recoil-less Head Smash is it's one gimmick, and it's not a very good one. Definitely not enough to get past it's other problems.

Aggron has 110 base attack, Tyrantrum has 121. And 82/119 physical defense isn't bad by any means too.
I can say Tyrantrum can be a substitute for Mega Tyranitar, having similar traits but Tyrantrum hits much harder with Head Smash and having less weaknesses while not taking up a Mega slot.
But Tyranitar is much more durable without a doubt.
Still seems a fair trade to me.

 

[The Magical Nacho]

I'd make the Counter argument Tyrantrum benefits more from Rock Head because of Head Smash's obscene power: Head Smash hits hard enough that it essentially eliminates the need for significant coverage.

With STAB, Head Smash reaches 225 power. Unless the target is resisting that and weak to the Fang move (97.5 Strong Jaw neutral fang vs 112.5 resisted Head Smash), there's no reason not to click Head Smash. The main resistors Tyrantrum would have to hit would be Steels that aren't hit SE by Earthquake (essentially, things tanking Edgequake), which includes Ferrothorn (4x Weak to Fire Fang anyway), Excadrill, Chesnaught and Breloom (though he wasn't beating the former anyway, and the latter still hates Head Smash)
0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 150-176 (49 - 57.5%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 166-198 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 170-204 (55.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 270-320 (103.4 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Losing power on coverage moves isn't as big a deal when spamming Head Smash and the occasional Earthquake almost completely mitigates the need for coverage in the first place. At most, he'll use Fire Fang or Ice Fang for 4x targets like Ferro or Garchomp (Neutrality means Boosted Head Smash suffices against Lando-T most of the time).

Tyrantrum obviously isn't faster than Aggron with Rock Polish, but checking the calculator, +1 Jolly w/ Max Speed (397) is still faster than Positive Base 130's, which I'd say is about as fast as he could ask considering it'd be DD instead. The flaw in the Aggron comparison is that using Rock Polish as the boosting move mitigates Speed issues, but doesn't solve the fact that, unboosted Base 110 Attack won't get him that far. If Tyrantrum has any niche, it's going to involve something to boost, be it DD or a Band for Wallbreaking. If we're ranking Mega Tyranitar, I don't see why we can't rank Tyrantrum, who has the exact same speed tier, achieves HIGHER damage output with his main STAB, and doesn't cost your team the Mega slot, meaning he can Wallbreak or punch holes for cleaners/sweepers like Altaria or Metagross, if not just shred Defensive cores with something like Gardevoir.

I won't deny there's probably hints of new toy syndrome, but in the context of OU, I feel Rock Head is a genuine improvement for Tyrantrum over Strong Jaw. If nothing else, a Wallbreaker that can do this
252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 237-279 (77.9 - 91.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Is something Stall can't leave unaccounted for, whether or not it prepares specifically for it. And with Stall (from what I've heard) being arguably the most common playstyle higher up the ladder, those numbers at least are looking pretty terrifying.

While ferro can't switch in freely to the rock head banded fire fang i don't think that worth the move lock unless you have already take care of ferro it but a adamant (or event jolly) strong jaw boosted +1 (which you can setup in the switch) Fire fang OHKO's ferro and still can switch moves freely. But don't get me wrong, the rock Head banded set un my opinion is viably with zone to back it up and Fire fang is not worth running without it's pseudo-STAB.

+1 252 Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


This is for ferro But now i think about it you still need something to get rid of skar(even tho you still can 2HKO it )
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 224-265 (67 - 79.3%

+1 252 Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So zone support pairs well offensivly talking. Zone pair with it well since it gets rid of skar faster and can OHKO m-slowbro but the main problem is M-Bro so anything that can hit it in the speacial side with super effective does the job.. In my opinion the DD strong jaw is a better late game cleaner of even mid game in a really nice scenario

For chesnaught the lum berry won't do much at +1 But with life orb it ensures the 2HKO (
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 247-291 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) so it can't switch in freely but it is still a good problem(for this i would recommend using bidspam like t-flame,staraptor or even mega pinsir).

Zone pair with it well since it gets rid of skar faster and can OHKO m-slowbro but the main problem is M-Bro so anything that can hit it in the speacial side with super effective does the job.

For M-Eye

+1 252+ Atk Tyrantrum Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You only need to run it adamant with lum set or you can use LO.

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tyrantrum Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 187-222 (61.5 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Mr. Goodra]

The above discussion about Clefable's spread got me thinking, what are people finding best works for unaware sets right now? I never really see an agreed spread for spdef unaware and the analysis only covers a def bold spread. It's such a versatile mon and loves that Greninja is gone. Does the magic guard spread transfer with leftovers or do people have to go full spdef to check thundurus due to hazard damage? Thundurus, TG RD mana and mega man are my top concerns but if I could still account for Lati that'd be ace.

Also from personal experience, mega Gyarados is amazing against all play styles right now. It's incredibly consistent and loves having crunch.

 

[Norne]

The above discussion about Clefable's spread got me thinking, what are people finding best works for unaware sets right now? I never really see an agreed spread for spdef unaware and the analysis only covers a def bold spread. It's such a versatile mon and loves that Greninja is gone. Does the Magic guard spread transfer with leftovers or do people have to go full spdef to check thundurus due to hazard damage? Thundurus, TG RD mana and mega man are my top concerns but if I could still account for Lati that'd be ace.

Also from personal experience, mega gyarados is amazing against all play styles right now. It's incredibly consistent and loves having crunch.

I prefer the physically bulky spread with 176 focus on bold,as it ensures survival with lefties factored in as a wish Passer. But yep thundurus wich seems to be declining in usage is an immediate treat without the right investment.

And yep gyarados teams benefit a lot from the trapping meta, the stabilization of the 110 speed tier and the focus on Mega Metagross, Slowbro and to a lesser extent sableye meta often causing mega man and Scarfers decline.

 

[FrocoTerra]

I have recently been running LO Hydreigon in OU. It's doing really well, but I wouldn't mind an outside opinion.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Flash Cannon
-Dark Pulse
-Earth Power

How does this set fit in the meta? Outspeeds max speed Adamant Kyurem-B which is just a precaution, even though most run 200 or so speed. Rest goes in Special Attack with enough left over to hit a Life Orb HP number and the rest in Defense.

How effective is Hydreigon in general in the current meta?

 

[boltsandbombers]

I have recently been running LO Hydreigon in OU. It's doing really well, but I wouldn't mind an outside opinion.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Flash Cannon
-Dark Pulse
-Earth Power

How does this set fit in the meta? Outspeeds max speed Adamant Kyurem-B which is just a precaution, even though most run 200 or so speed. Rest goes in Special Attack with enough left over to hit a Life Orb HP number and the rest in Defense.

How effective is Hydreigon in general in the current meta?

Hydreigon is really damn good in this meta; arguably replacing Greninja as the new balance playstyle destroyer to a lesser extent. Just about everything not a fairy or steel type or named Chansey / blissey is absolutely obliterated by a modest Draco meteor, and most steel types are hit by earth power. Even the standard 96+ SpDef clefable is 2HKOed by flash cannon, which is pretty damn nice. Personally, I like using superpower over earth power for a harder hit on Tyranitar and ferrothorn, the latter which might be finished off by a dark pulse afterwards. Sure, it's speed is /ok/ but once it's inside and you can predict correctly it will deal heavy damage.

 

[Duskane]

g

I have recently been running LO Hydreigon in OU. It's doing really well, but I wouldn't mind an outside opinion.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Flash Cannon
-Dark Pulse
-Earth Power

How does this set fit in the meta? Outspeeds max speed Adamant Kyurem-B which is just a precaution, even though most run 200 or so speed. Rest goes in Special Attack with enough left over to hit a Life Orb HP number and the rest in Defense.

How effective is Hydreigon in general in the current meta?

you could probably swap Earth power for fireBlast or Superpower

Hydreigon fairly solid in UU i ran a Volt turn core with Raikou M beedrill and Hydreigon as the main 3 works very well

Rock head Tyrantrum will probably be pushed to BL 2 or UU its now a somewhat reliable stab(why game freak must rocks moves not 100%) its just amazing power coming from that base attack and access to DD
itll be a nice Pokemon to use even with a scarf plus he got Outrage in ORAS

 

[Kurona]

g

you could probably swap Earth power for fireBlast or Superpower

Hydreigon fairly solid in UU i ran a Volt turn core with Raikou M beedrill and Hydreigon as the main 3 works very well

Rock head Tyrantrum will probably be pushed to BL 2 or UU its now a somewhat reliable stab(why game freak must rocks moves not 100%) its just amazing power coming from that base attack and access to DD
itll be a nice Pokemon to use even with a scarf plus he got Outrage in ORAS

Tyrantrum will not be BL2 at all because there are plenty of rock resists in RU to put it far away from ban-worthy. I think it'll be like D or C- in OU tho since it works as a Mega T-tar substitute

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Stuff about Strong Jaw and Fire Fang

To be frank, if you're not using Rock Head Tyrantrum, you might as well not be using Tyrantrum at all. Strong Jaw Tyrantrum wasn't viable in OU before, and that hasn't changed. What has changed, however, is Tyrantrum's new ability to toss around ridiculously powerful STAB Head Smashes with no recoil. The lesser damage on Fire Fang / Ice Fang is well worth the raw power of Head Smash, which is really the only thing setting Tyrantrum apart at all.

That said, I really don't think a Dragon Dance set is the right direction to go with this guy. I know it's getting compared to Mega Tyranitar, but don't forget that Mega Tyranitar has effectively 100 / 150 / 189 defenses in Sand, as opposed to Tyrantrum's 82 / 119 / 59 bulk. That helps Mega Tyranitar not only set up more easily but also to survive attacks from potential revenge killers. Also, don't forget that DD Mega Tyranitar has slipped considerably in viability as of late, so having a somewhat worse Mega Tyranitar that doesn't take up a Mega slot isn't extremely enticing. Tyrantrum's main problem is just that its speed at +1, while solid, still falls short of the level of those lightning-fast Megas, and it gets outsped and checked by the best Scarf user in the metagame (plus a few others). That prevents it from sweeping offensive and balanced teams very easily, because most of them are going to carry something like Mega Lopunny or Scarf Landorus-T to keep you from getting too far.

I'd say that Tyrantrum's best potential sets will probably be Choice Band and Rock Polish. Choice Band is the one I'm looking forward to the most because it's so simple. Don't overthink it, just come in and spam Head Smash. Even bulky resists like Ferrothorn are losing a third or more of their health to Choice Band Head Smash, so if they're not careful, they might only be able to switch in once before they get 2HKOed the next time. That, or you could slam Ferrothorn with Fire Fang or Superpower. Switching into Choice Band Tyrantrum is like playing Russian Roulette, and if you lose the guessing game, you're probably going to lose something every time Tyrantrum takes the field.

Rock Polish looks decent on paper because the extra speed is so useful against offensive teams. Unlike Aggron, Tyrantrum actually has enough speed to run an Adamant nature and still outspeed even Scarf Landorus-T (Jolly beats even Scarf Latios), whereas Aggron has to run Jolly just to beat most of the fast Megas at +2 and still loses to Timid MegaZam/Jolly MegaDactyl. The raw power of Head Smash is enough to terrorize many frailer teams; even Keldeo is taking up to ~70% from LO Head Smash after Stealth Rock. The main problems I see with this set is the difficultly setting up on offensive teams with so many weaknesses and such low special bulk, vulnerability to quicker Scarf users if you're running Adamant, and vulnerability to Sableye's initial Prankster Will-O-Wisp and Thundurus/Klefki's Prankster Thunder Waves if you're not running Lum Berry (doing so cuts into your power). By contrast, the Choice Band set literally just comes in and throws Head Smash around, which in my opinion makes it easier to use and do massive damage with.

 

[jpw234]

I'd say that Tyrantrum's best potential sets will probably be Choice Band and Rock Polish. Choice Band is the one I'm looking forward to the most because it's so simple. Don't overthink it, just come in and spam Head Smash. Even bulky resists like Ferrothorn are losing a third or more of their health to Choice Band Head Smash, so if they're not careful, they might only be able to switch in once before they get 2HKOed the next time. That, or you could slam Ferrothorn with Fire Fang or Superpower. Switching into Choice Band Tyrantrum is like playing Russian Roulette, and if you lose the guessing game, you're probably going to lose something every time Tyrantrum takes the field.

Rock Polish looks decent on paper because the extra speed is so useful against offensive teams. Unlike Aggron, Tyrantrum actually has enough speed to run an Adamant nature and still outspeed even Scarf Landorus-T (Jolly beats even Scarf Latios), whereas Aggron has to run Jolly just to beat most of the fast Megas at +2 and still loses to Timid MegaZam/Jolly MegaDactyl. The raw power of Head Smash is enough to terrorize many frailer teams; even Keldeo is taking up to ~70% from LO Head Smash after Stealth Rock. The main problems I see with this set is the difficultly setting up on offensive teams with so many weaknesses and such low special bulk, vulnerability to quicker Scarf users if you're running Adamant, and vulnerability to Sableye's initial Prankster Will-O-Wisp and Thundurus/Klefki's Prankster Thunder Waves if you're not running Lum Berry (doing so cuts into your power). By contrast, the Choice Band set literally just comes in and throws Head Smash around, which in my opinion makes it easier to use and do massive damage with.

I'd agree with the CB set. The obvious comparison is to another recent toy in Specs Dragalge, where it's just got good typing and really spammable hard-hitting STABs. Dragon Dance seems eminently underwhelming and I don't see how it's getting around the stuff that beats the other good DDers in the tier.

 

[martyrDOM]

I'd agree with the CB set. The obvious comparison is to another recent toy in Specs Dragalge, where it's just got good typing and really spammable hard-hitting STABs. Dragon Dance seems eminently underwhelming and I don't see how it's getting around the stuff that beats the other good DDers in the tier.

Not too mention the rampant Mach punches and bullet punches. tyrantrum seems to serve as a rampardos that gave up it's strength for a little bulk and speed, but it's damage output is equally hampered by it's weaknesses.

 

[silversurfer718]

I wouldn't call either of those priorities rampant? There are only 3 users of Bullet Punch that see a lot of OU usage, and 1 of them, MMcham is dropping in usuage thanks to MGallade. As for the Mach Punch users, they are all demolished by priority of their own in Tflame. Tflame and CharY are on paper solid offensive partners for Rock TTrum as they can remove any threats to his DD sweep

 

[FrocoTerra]

With a lot of new megas that can't take Birdspam like Gallade, Sceptile, Beedrill and Lopunny as well as the rise of Chesnaught, Talonflame must have risen in usage. I don't have the usage stats, but I can assume that much. Wouldn't this make Tyrantrum even better in OU, as it gets a free switch and turn of setup on all Tflame sets except Will-O-Wisp, and Lum DD sets would stop it 100%

 

[TheTraininator]

With a lot of new megas that can't take Birdspam like Gallade, Sceptile, Beedrill and Lopunny as well as the rise of Chesnaught, Talonflame must have risen in usage. I don't have the usage stats, but I can assume that much. Wouldn't this make Tyrantrum even better in OU, as it gets a free switch and turn of setup on all Tflame sets except Will-O-Wisp, and Lum DD sets would stop it 100%

Talonflame has always been high in usage, even if it has gone up a little bit more recently. The main advantage for Tyrantrum right now is the Will-O-Wisp set you mentioned is losing popularity due to the existence of Mega Sableye, meaning Tyrantrum hardly has to worry about taking a Wisp from Talonflame.

 

[Machi]

Talonflame has always been high in usage, even if it has gone up a little bit more recently. The main advantage for Tyrantrum right now is the Will-O-Wisp set you mentioned is losing popularity due to the existence of Mega Sableye, meaning Tyrantrum hardly has to worry about taking a Wisp from Talonflame.

Well he'll have to worry about it from Sableye though xD so the threat should still be there, if not MEye you have Rotom-W which is just as rampant.

 

[TheTraininator]

Well he'll have to worry about it from Sableye though xD so the threat should still be there, if not MEye you have Rotom-W which is just as rampant.

Oh, yeah, of course, Wisp is still a factor, don't get me wrong, I was just talking about how Tyrantrum doesn't have to worry as much about getting Will-O-Wisped by Talonflame SPECIFICALLY anymore.

 

[FrocoTerra]

Oh, yeah, of course, Wisp is still a factor, don't get me wrong, I was just talking about how Tyrantrum doesn't have to worry as much about getting Will-O-Wisped by Talonflame SPECIFICALLY anymore.

Yeah, it is quite rare for WoW TFlame but originally I said it was the only set that could possibly stop Tyrantrum

 

[pika pal]

Well he'll have to worry about it from Sableye though xD so the threat should still be there, if not MEye you have Rotom-W which is just as rampant.

While true, Mega'd Sableye doesn't outspeed, so it's much harder pressed to Wisp Tyrantrum. Sableye still only checks Tyrantrum with his Prankster turns.
252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 301-355 (99 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rotom-W is faster and probably rampant as well, but the standard 44 Speed EVs won't outspeed a Tyrantrum (of either nature) running Max Speed (Needs 168 Adamant, only 88 Jolly), and then this happens
252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 246-291 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

There's just as much if not more WoW, but Tyrantrum can handle their users a bit more easily than Wisp Talonflame, while either dealing with Smog bird or setting up on it depending on the set (BU has either Taunt or Wisp, and outspeeds no matter what). Doubt I need to post Tyrant's calcs.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 102-120 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 147-174 (48 - 56.8%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO (Sets up on the SD turn)

So, Tyrantrum does have my attention just because it can either be a battering ram of a Wallbreaker (CB) or a sweeper not stopped by arguably OU's premier Revenge Killer (not sure of TF vs Scarf Lando as of now).

 

[LoDart210]

Any good ideas for teammates for CB TTrum? Back in early XY I used him alongside Char Y with surprisingly strong results.

Also, when does rock head become legal?

 

[Salemance]

Any good ideas for teammates for CB TTrum? Back in early XY I used him alongside Char Y with surprisingly strong results.

Also, when does rock head become legal?

30th i think i was told or read. Not the surest.

I had a discussiin with a friend and one of the ideas we tossed round was possibly Celebi to do a dance pass to tyrant would be interesting if say he was scarfed or something (and allowing a bp to tyrant as they switch in talon for easy switch in for the dino) and just being nice idea to help with some of the faster dragons i would spose.