You should specify Mega Slowbro here, regular Slowbro is just decimated.
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Almost Any Ability MK3
- Thread starter Monte Cristo
- Start date
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don't really see why I would be calcing slowbro but point taken.
Just letting people know there is an updated calculator that has all of the new megas plus more sets for most things: http://gamut-was-taken.github.io
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos in Strong Winds: 452-536 (117.7 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 324-382 (97 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 752-886 (106.8 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 472-556 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 372-438 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 558-658 (120.2 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 214-254 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 204-242 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 228-270 (80.2 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golurk: 236-278 (61.7 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Shield: 226-266 (69.7 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 268-316 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Doublade: 150-178 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 182-215 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sure, it'll die after like 3 Head Smashes, but with proper support, it'll just destroy everything. Even Intimidate only turns OHKOs into 2HKOs. And apart from Hippodown, nothing can switch into a Head Smash.
OLD GREGG (im back baby)
old gregg for life
Archeops is broken af without Defeatist. Not only is it broken just based on offensive stats but it has a fast taunt to boot. Can set rocks, I mean the Arc ban is a no brainer. Defeatist maybe a shit ability but without it, Archeops has a field day. Doesn't even need Adaptability to be rediculous. Life orb+Magic guard would fuck shit up.
Don't use Adaptability imo. Archeops lacks good Flying STAB. Tough Claws boosts other relevant coverage like Aqua Tail, so use that instead.
Ok. So for many of us, the banning of mamoswine is a little out of the blue. I disagree with this ban, and in this post am going to put my thoughts down on paper, or keyboard whatever. Sorry if this post gets rambly.
When discussing bans, there is one main question we need ask ourselves. Paraphrased from this thread: Can said pokemon, in common battle conditions, consistantly sweep most teams in the metagame with little effort? I don't know what other people think, obviously, but I personally believe no. Not to say that I have never lost to mamoswine before; infact using a balance team that is quite mamoswine weak I have lost multiple times to it. But I do not think it can consistantly sweep against most teams. In many ways, it is similar to mega heracross in XY. Both are very strong pokemon with very few counters, with similar damage output, as well as near perfect coverage. They also both have a pretty low speed (75 and 80) and somewhat comparable bulk, although M-heracross beats it out by a bit along with a better typing. Mega heracross was a top tier threat in XY, but no-one would consider banning it because it cannot sweep teams. It is simply too slow to ever do that. While mamoswine does have a form of priority in ice shard, it lacks a set-up move such as swords dance to really be able to use it to kill anything, except things it does super effective damage against.
For example, lets look at a bog-standard HO team: deoxys-s | metagross | terrakion | victini | thundurus| latios (not a real team, just some random HO pokes) There is no way mamoswine would be able to "auto-pilot" sweep a team such as this, or for that matter any offense team without like 4 ice weaknesses, as monte has said mamoswine is capable of. Of course, the mamoswine user can always outplay the other player, for example use earthquake on thundurus predicting a switch, but that is up to the user. There are lots of pokemon that are like this; they have the power to KO almost everything but require prediction. Some examples in ou are azumarill, conkeldurr, landorus, mega heracross itself. None of these are broken, even though with proper prediction they are very hard to switch into.
Let's take a look at some other team styles. Obviously sun and rain teams will destroy mamoswine; although it may not be completely useless against more balanced variants. Now of course, we get to stall and balance, which is where mamoswine works best. I want to both dispel this belief that mamoswine can auto-pilot its way through stall teams, as that is simply not true. Stall teams can counter and check mamoswine with several pokemon, including but not limited to: intimidate skarmory, mega slowbro, intimidate slowbro,surskit, levitate doublade, levitate heatran, even levitate infernape which is legit, although has less of a niche now that bisharp is banned. Some checks, or pokes that can switch into it sort of include PH suicune, gale wings skarmory, delta stream mandibuzz, hell you could even run delta stream or thick fat skarmory, which actually seems kinda cool. This is AAA, defensive pokemon pokemon get boosts too y'know. Aside from this, mamoswine is hardly the only pokemon to do well against stall in AAA. I could name dozens of pokemon that have a limited number of counters; victini, terrakion, thundurus, snorlax, latios, gengar, genesect, shaymin, tyranitar, dragonite, and so on and on and on.
So, um, to reiterate. I believe that mamoswine is not broken because it is way too slow to sweep most teams. It does have priority, but it is not strong enough to kill anything except extremely weakened pokemon and things weak to ice. While it does do very well against stall, this is AAA, lots of things do as well or better against stall, and that is not a good reason for a ban. Finally, can we have the initial reasoning for the ban, as well as hopefully a reply to this post? We got no reasoning at all, just told that you and "top players I trust", aka like 3 of your friends, have decided this. The rest of the community has had no involvement in this at all.
When discussing bans, there is one main question we need ask ourselves. Paraphrased from this thread: Can said pokemon, in common battle conditions, consistantly sweep most teams in the metagame with little effort? I don't know what other people think, obviously, but I personally believe no. Not to say that I have never lost to mamoswine before; infact using a balance team that is quite mamoswine weak I have lost multiple times to it. But I do not think it can consistantly sweep against most teams. In many ways, it is similar to mega heracross in XY. Both are very strong pokemon with very few counters, with similar damage output, as well as near perfect coverage. They also both have a pretty low speed (75 and 80) and somewhat comparable bulk, although M-heracross beats it out by a bit along with a better typing. Mega heracross was a top tier threat in XY, but no-one would consider banning it because it cannot sweep teams. It is simply too slow to ever do that. While mamoswine does have a form of priority in ice shard, it lacks a set-up move such as swords dance to really be able to use it to kill anything, except things it does super effective damage against.
For example, lets look at a bog-standard HO team: deoxys-s | metagross | terrakion | victini | thundurus| latios (not a real team, just some random HO pokes) There is no way mamoswine would be able to "auto-pilot" sweep a team such as this, or for that matter any offense team without like 4 ice weaknesses, as monte has said mamoswine is capable of. Of course, the mamoswine user can always outplay the other player, for example use earthquake on thundurus predicting a switch, but that is up to the user. There are lots of pokemon that are like this; they have the power to KO almost everything but require prediction. Some examples in ou are azumarill, conkeldurr, landorus, mega heracross itself. None of these are broken, even though with proper prediction they are very hard to switch into.
Let's take a look at some other team styles. Obviously sun and rain teams will destroy mamoswine; although it may not be completely useless against more balanced variants. Now of course, we get to stall and balance, which is where mamoswine works best. I want to both dispel this belief that mamoswine can auto-pilot its way through stall teams, as that is simply not true. Stall teams can counter and check mamoswine with several pokemon, including but not limited to: intimidate skarmory, mega slowbro, intimidate slowbro,
So, um, to reiterate. I believe that mamoswine is not broken because it is way too slow to sweep most teams. It does have priority, but it is not strong enough to kill anything except extremely weakened pokemon and things weak to ice. While it does do very well against stall, this is AAA, lots of things do as well or better against stall, and that is not a good reason for a ban. Finally, can we have the initial reasoning for the ban, as well as hopefully a reply to this post? We got no reasoning at all, just told that you and "top players I trust", aka like 3 of your friends, have decided this. The rest of the community has had no involvement in this at all.
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Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Don't have the time or the coffee to stay up and answer all of this but that 2nd to last sentence is just you trying to be cheeky about this. "Omg I can assume that monte cristo just makes up shit so he can ban things he loses to. Look at me, I'm so edgy"
Like you're a good user but that was a pretty fucking dumb line. The rest of the community ofc would not be trusted with this because I don't trust the general public with important matters, it doesn't make sense because most people can bullshit their way into voting into an unhealthy meta.
Also, Mamo does beat stall easily, those mons you listed were pretty shaky "checks" seeing as doublade hates hazards and dislikes knock off as it 3hkos (meaning doublade loses eviolite, thus becoming a LOT worse overall and cannot switchin since no real recovery and no way to punish switches from mamo). Intimidate Slowbro gets lefties knocked off and is pressured very easily. Although I'll give you that, since intimidate slowbro wasn't even good in the first place. Although not bad, just not optimal in a meta where optimal efficiency is needed in a playstyle like stall. Levitiate heatran stopped being good a long time ago and gets beaten by superpower. And the fact that you're running defensive infernape, on stall, is bad. It was good on some offensive builds but it was stuck between intimidate or unaware for bisharp and levi for everything else. For stall it's worse as there are much better glues to be using and it doesn't provide much other utility and is bait for lots of things.
DT Skarm can be good, and is one of the only real "counters" next to intimidate/mega slowbro but DT Mandibuzz is bad cause rocks + icicle still 2hkos. Feel free to correct me on that but yeah, that should be correct.
And on that list...
- Victini- volt absorb most waters, ff most mons, ff ferro esp, and intimidate slowbro, vaps or crocune. Victini is S (now) but it's way too punishable in general to be banned
- Terrakion- levitate doublade is actually good since no knock off, intimidate hippo (unlike vs mamo) and most other intimidate mons. That is if it runs CB adapt. The checks for LO/SD adapt and other odd sets are different. Although I did originally want this thing banned, I am considering it over a long process
- Snorlax? Are you awake? Literally like 2-4 out of 6 mons on every stall team can deal with this one way or another. Not listing the huge amount of counters
- Thundy- intimidate hippo, volt absorbers, delta zapdos, ph zapdos, sylveon, and more if I had time to list out the full list. It depends on set ofc, and whether its mixed with tbolt or mixed with wild charge, etc but these should mostly work.
- latios- doublade, sylveon, slowking, ff ferro, PH crocune, PH mew, and more stuff
- genesect- it's hard NOT to find a counter for this thing on like every team now that protean isn't as big. But PH crocune or unaware cro cune, ff ferro, ff doublade, sylveon delta dos, ph dos and more
- gengar- ph zapdos, ph crocune, regen crocune, tenta (eh mediocre, but it's actually proven useful during the current meta), and other things I'm too lazy to list
- ttar- not even worth replying to, ttar isn't even a threat to stall. Strong jaw banded maybe (even though its more or less a bad-ish set) and mega tar is just beaten by a fuckton of unaware mons and the regular checks n counters
- dragonite- used to be a lot better before protean and aerilate were banned, but haven't found really naything pressive from dnite, most stall teams don't even have a rough time.
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 190-224 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 333-395 (111.3 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 117-138 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 138-164 (42.5 - 50.6%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(after one round of LO damage and one rocks switchin, or simply 2 rocks switchins, terrakion is not a check, it is a revenge killer)
(fyi the difference between check and revenge killer is check can come in safely on like one move or can only take one hit, but can eliminate the foe and beat it depending on how you get it in. A revenge killer simply cannot get in and has to wait to get in for free)
I'm having a mind block of speedy things in AAA that don't resist ice shard rn cause so much of AAA is priority based. But you get what I'm trying to get across, it's not as simple as you think. And revenge killers aren't exactly the best answer to shit considering you have to sack a mon and it's easy to end up pressuring the foe again and again with little punishment. Esp for things immune to magnet pull.
This is not the most clear or even competent answer you'll get from me. This post will have lots of flaws probably. Why? Because you people are too fucking hasting when I said I will get to the post when I am in a position to do it. Bitching about me not answering quick enough isn't going to help you at all. It's only going to annoy me getting an alert for something useless that I've already heard a million times.
You mean a ground type gets shit on by an ice type? NO WAY. in all seruoisness though i await your detailed post.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
I'm assuming you're referring to Hippowdon. So yes, beating one of the bulkiest and most reliable walls on stall easily with no need to worry compared to something like terrakion, does make it more of a threat. So why wouldn't I bring it up
Yeah looking back the second to last line was a bit rude, sorry.
Just looking at this, some of those counters aren't really counters
- Victini- Often runs a grass move, even on band sets, such as grass knot for tough claws and solarbeam for desolate land/drought sets. This rules out all counters except char x and flash fire ferro. it can even just muscle past volt absorb waters:
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune in Sun: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Terrakion- yeah, about right. Only really doublade, intimidate hippo and mega slowbro
- Snorlax- Snorlax runs ph curse sets, and can just boost its way past counters. the only way is like taunt counter skarmory or unaware chesnaught or something; pokemon that phaze it out will lose to last mon snorlax, and gale wings skarmory loses.
- Thundy- yeah this all seems right, but it can run other sets than mixed refridge, such as a set someone was using with no guard thunder and focus blast.
- latios- you seriously underestimate the power of latios. it 2hkos or ohkos every pokemon on that list except doublade and slowking. you almost have to run a regenvest steel type to counter this, such as metagross.
- genesect- most of those would be good against physical sets, but when it comes to stallbreaking I was talking more about things like life orb sheer force mixed sets, and things like no guard sets can be annoying.
- gengar- none of those are counters except like tenta, they all take like 70% from sludge wave.
- ttar- you need intimidate mons for this, adaptability band does around 60% to normal skarmory
- dragonite- tough claws band just does so much:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 187-222 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery if they have hazards you need to bring levitate doublade or something along those lines
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Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
I never implied you said that, I was bringing up calcs vs top offense mons in order to show how strong it's priority was. I might reply to that full rebuttal list soon if I have the time or interest. But I'm glad we're at least keeping it civil
A little while ago, I was making a new team (Which kind of sucked, as at some point the Pokemon had no synergy or lost all my momentum) I was seeking for a good Water type Primordial Sea user, preferably a Special one. I found this and it worked pretty well!
Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot / Flash Cannon
Empoleon was way better than I expected! It checks a ton of stuff that don't have a Fighting, Ground or Electric type move, though they're admittedly common types. It does especially well against Fire types (due to Primordial Sea), Steel types, Water types and Fairy types. In my experience, it's pretty easy to get in and nuke something with a Primordial Sea STAB Specs Boosted Scald or Hydro Pump. Scald is useful early game when there are still good resists alive that you can burn or you don't want to waste Hydro Pump's PP. I honestly rarely used the other attacks so you could run whatever you want, but Ice Beam is useful against Grass types and Dragon types. Grass Knot is useful against Water types and Flash Cannon can be used for Fairies, though you KO moves already. All you gotta do is bring it in on something passive or something that doesn't have a strong attack against it, or bring it in with a double switch or slow momentum. Once you're in the opponent is basically required to switch in a wall to check this, so they aren't able to send in something that can actually beat it. All types that can hit it SE with STAB can't switch in, as most Pokemon of those types are OHKO'd. It really does do great in battle, for me at least. Of course watch out for Desolate Land, but that's about all that you really gotta worry about.
Edit: 88 Speed EV's are to outspeed max speed Thundurus at +2 (as my team has a Tailwind user) You can tweak this to creep whatever you want.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite in Rain: 199-234 (61.6 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 216 HP / 228 SpD Dragonite in Rain: 160-189 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus in Rain: 266-313 (89.5 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon in Rain: 207-245 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados in Rain: 159-187 (45 - 52.9%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Celebi in Rain: 147-173 (36.3 - 42.8%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This damage is pretty crazy already. I don't think I need to calculate non-resists.
EDIT: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 204-240 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It beats Chansey after a bit of residual damage. (Absorbing some Volt Switches or a few layers of Spikes.)
Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot / Flash Cannon
Empoleon was way better than I expected! It checks a ton of stuff that don't have a Fighting, Ground or Electric type move, though they're admittedly common types. It does especially well against Fire types (due to Primordial Sea), Steel types, Water types and Fairy types. In my experience, it's pretty easy to get in and nuke something with a Primordial Sea STAB Specs Boosted Scald or Hydro Pump. Scald is useful early game when there are still good resists alive that you can burn or you don't want to waste Hydro Pump's PP. I honestly rarely used the other attacks so you could run whatever you want, but Ice Beam is useful against Grass types and Dragon types. Grass Knot is useful against Water types and Flash Cannon can be used for Fairies, though you KO moves already. All you gotta do is bring it in on something passive or something that doesn't have a strong attack against it, or bring it in with a double switch or slow momentum. Once you're in the opponent is basically required to switch in a wall to check this, so they aren't able to send in something that can actually beat it. All types that can hit it SE with STAB can't switch in, as most Pokemon of those types are OHKO'd. It really does do great in battle, for me at least. Of course watch out for Desolate Land, but that's about all that you really gotta worry about.
Edit: 88 Speed EV's are to outspeed max speed Thundurus at +2 (as my team has a Tailwind user) You can tweak this to creep whatever you want.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite in Rain: 199-234 (61.6 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 216 HP / 228 SpD Dragonite in Rain: 160-189 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus in Rain: 266-313 (89.5 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon in Rain: 207-245 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados in Rain: 159-187 (45 - 52.9%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Celebi in Rain: 147-173 (36.3 - 42.8%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This damage is pretty crazy already. I don't think I need to calculate non-resists.
EDIT: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 204-240 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It beats Chansey after a bit of residual damage. (Absorbing some Volt Switches or a few layers of Spikes.)
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A mon I've taken to using is Thick Fat Hippo, to act as a sort of softish check to frige-speeders and non-DLand Tini on my stall team. Works pretty well since it had a bonus of taking about jack all from offensive zapdos's coverage and taking SF Ice beams from Gene alright too. The SpDef set with Thick Fat was cool too but I ended up just getting Molly whopped by turbotini without def investment. Also note Tini can still grass knot you etc. will add calcs when at comp. (disclaimer, might actually suck but idk took like 30 from Fridge Mamo return so that was something.)
252 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power (Ice) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Hippowdon: 84-100 (20 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Hippowdon: 66-78 (15.7 - 18.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Hippowdon: 112-132 (26.6 - 31.4%) -- 18.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Hippowdon: 79-94 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Hippowdon in Sun: 178-211 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (still scary as fuck tho lol)
Keep in mind you're not gonna beat Zapdos without toxic but many run Bounce so it's not always the best answer.
252 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power (Ice) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Hippowdon: 84-100 (20 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Hippowdon: 66-78 (15.7 - 18.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Hippowdon: 112-132 (26.6 - 31.4%) -- 18.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Hippowdon: 79-94 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Hippowdon in Sun: 178-211 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (still scary as fuck tho lol)
Keep in mind you're not gonna beat Zapdos without toxic but many run Bounce so it's not always the best answer.
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I was literally in the middle of building a team with this in it lol. thick fat is cool because it lets you stop volt switch spam from most things, as well as be a pretty good check to victini and a better check to things like the rare charizard x.
Definitely all great pluses. It's a pretty cool pivot on defensive teams considerng it takes neutral hits really great too based on it's dumb high physical defenses. I like to partner it with something like PH Mandibuzz since it can eat up stronger special hits given investment while appreciating the Ice-type switch in. Magic Bounce Clefable also blocks status for it (or just Heal Bells it away) and appreciates the like of Scizor and MegaGross getting taken care of.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ir76oRT9A83HLN8hj_cuzdWW84QvFF4wZ9Skf0ByvWE/edit?usp=sharing
guide to diancie. There's a video to go along with it but it's not edited
guide to diancie. There's a video to go along with it but it's not edited
no illusion set smh
Illusion Rock Polish Set Best Set.
EV
Banned deucer.
WHY. Please add something to the discussion other than "Yolo where's teh Illusion Diana?"
Why is Illusion good on Diancie? Who makes a good decoy so it can set up a Rock Polish? What are some other good Illusion users?
*crickets*
Magic Bounce makes it immune to WoW, Spore, Toxic and T-Wave. Illusion is perfect if I send out something which is immune to or resists Diancie's weakensses. Shaymin-S for example. Immune to ground, resists water and grass and is neutral to steel. If your opponent doesn't have anything that's going to hit super-effectively, he'll probably switch, allowing you to use Rock Polish. Max speed Diancie hits 700 speed then, which outspeeds the entire metagame. Except for the weird stuff like Scarf Deoxys-S(I've actually seen someone use this.). But max speed is pretty useless. 160 speed EVs are enough to outspeed any scarfed Pokemon not called Ninjask, Deoxys or Electrode. You could probably lower those EVs a lot more too and put it into Attack. As for Pokemon who Diancie can take care of, see Monte's list.
The main advantage of Rock Polish over HP-Fire is that you don't need to invest as much on speed. Also, since it outspeeds everything, standard scarf revenge killers can't touch it. It's typing also gives you a handy resistance to flying, allowing you to take care of birds as well.
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 140-165 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 144-171 (59.7 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Thundurus Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 132-156 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chatot Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 137-162 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Chatot Chatter vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 127-150 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even with a band/specs they 2HKO at best. Only bird that Diancie doesn't OHKO is Skarmory.
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 121-144 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 94-109 (35.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 186-218 (69.9 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if you get that handy defense boost:
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +1 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 62-74 (23.3 - 27.8%) -- 73% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +1 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 125-147 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO
Some other calculations:
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 158-186 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 216-255 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Flaws:
Lack of STAB on Earth Power is infuriating. You can't OHKO Snaquaza's Empoleon set.
You'll have a problem with Steel types that resist or are immune to ground.
Bullet Punch while uncommon, OHKOs.
Walled by Aegislash/Doublade/Hippowodon and a few others. This is its biggest flaw IMO.
I'd type more but I'm tired now, maybe later.
The main advantage of Rock Polish over HP-Fire is that you don't need to invest as much on speed. Also, since it outspeeds everything, standard scarf revenge killers can't touch it. It's typing also gives you a handy resistance to flying, allowing you to take care of birds as well.
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 140-165 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 144-171 (59.7 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Thundurus Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 132-156 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chatot Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 137-162 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Chatot Chatter vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 127-150 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even with a band/specs they 2HKO at best. Only bird that Diancie doesn't OHKO is Skarmory.
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 121-144 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 94-109 (35.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 186-218 (69.9 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if you get that handy defense boost:
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +1 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 62-74 (23.3 - 27.8%) -- 73% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +1 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 125-147 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO
Some other calculations:
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 158-186 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 216-255 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Flaws:
Lack of STAB on Earth Power is infuriating. You can't OHKO Snaquaza's Empoleon set.
You'll have a problem with Steel types that resist or are immune to ground.
Bullet Punch while uncommon, OHKOs.
Walled by Aegislash/Doublade/Hippowodon and a few others. This is its biggest flaw IMO.
I'd type more but I'm tired now, maybe later.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
AAA Skarm matchups (A- to S)
Zapdos- Obvious lose here. However at +4 with rocks you can kill Dos with Brave Bird
Deoxys-S- Unless Deo is running HP Fire you're safe to SD, defog, roost, brave bird etc. Probably most deos will try to force the defog by spiking and not give you turns to SD so they can get a switch into something before you can SD and start rampaging.
Braviary- You win pretty easily considering it has nothing to hit you and you can roost and SD all over it.
Staraptor- Read: Braviary. Except CB CC is safer than CB Superpower from Brav.
Terrakion- If you're boosted you easily beat it but CB Adapt Terrak pressures you really badly. So it's a mixed bag but it really depends on who is pressuring who
Victini- Victini easily beats you however if you boost you can just rip through it because skarm boosted beats most offense mons.
Heatran- Resists BB. Is Fire type. Pretty self explanatory. FF Skarm beats chlorotran though
Entei- Boosted beats it. But sacred fire and flare blitz really do hurt.
Lucario- You resist espeed however, defensive skarm should watch out- +2 adapt/tough claws close combat really hurts. SO offensive skarm CAN win this matchup depending on who's boosted or not
Snorlax- Unless lax is fire punch it can't do much while you can set up to +6 and roost and if it boosts too much, just kill it.
Thundurus- Obvious lose for defensive sets. But +2 Sharp Beak skarm with rocks can OHKO offensive thundy with brave bird
Latios- Latios can threaten the OHKO with tinted draco or thunderbolt but +2 skarm OHKOs with BB so, mixed bag
Aegislash- Unless you're at like +2 and it's in blade form, this will be a hard matchup, while it can skarm LO or spooky shadow balls to murder skarm.
Gengar- Tbolt and Shadow Ball are very threatening, but your brave bird is as well. Defensive Skarm sets however just kinda lose.
Mew- WoW threatens any non magic bounce skarm (btw magic bounce skarm is bad) so it's best not try your luck unless you're boosted quite a bit
Chansey- Set up bait, but Thunder Wave can really be annoying if you're not careful
Genesect- Flamethrower is really problematic, but genesect just loses if you're at +2
Diancie- You just lose, t you can set up on it easily if it doesn't have CM or HP Fire
Blaziken- you don't even need to boost to beat Blaziken, you just win. FF Skarm also has a (fairly) good time against it
Heracross- lol
Mandibuzz- You ca set upto +4 but foul play just gets os strong aftr a while, and unaware can make you cry because you boost, then you realize it's immune to boosts then get OHKOd by Foul Play lol.
Gyarados Mega- Defensive sets can win, and so can gale wings BB. But if Gyara is already boosted like +2 or +3 then don't even try, cause it's more risk than reward
Honchkrow- Heat wave sets hurt unless you're LO. But if it's not running 4th slot heat wave, you can just set up on it and roost off BB/SP dmg
Deoxys-D- Defog away hazards, no move thratens you, you can easily get to +6. So yeah, easy set up bait
Manaphy- It's a game of who boosts first. +3 surf kills but so does +2 Brave Bird.
Kyurem- Eh, Skarm can win, esp if boosted, Nothing too threatening aside from life orb HP fire.
Goodra- Flamethrower is an issue, but FF Skarm just has a field day with it. If you're boosted you wreck goodra though.
Suicune- Suicune beat you unless you boost to like +4 and scald burns fucking suck.
Cresselia- Easy set up bait, but watch out for twave
Landorus I- Simple set up bait, can't do much with the mixed/refridge set but the sheer force set is really threatening
Vaporeon- Kind of easy set up bait, but at the same time you have to worry about scald burns
Mega Swampert- Rain boosted waterfalls hurt offensive sets, but if you've boosted enough BB will kill making it an easier matchup
Deoxys-S- Unless Deo is running HP Fire you're safe to SD, defog, roost, brave bird etc. Probably most deos will try to force the defog by spiking and not give you turns to SD so they can get a switch into something before you can SD and start rampaging.
Braviary- You win pretty easily considering it has nothing to hit you and you can roost and SD all over it.
Staraptor- Read: Braviary. Except CB CC is safer than CB Superpower from Brav.
Terrakion- If you're boosted you easily beat it but CB Adapt Terrak pressures you really badly. So it's a mixed bag but it really depends on who is pressuring who
Victini- Victini easily beats you however if you boost you can just rip through it because skarm boosted beats most offense mons.
Heatran- Resists BB. Is Fire type. Pretty self explanatory. FF Skarm beats chlorotran though
Entei- Boosted beats it. But sacred fire and flare blitz really do hurt.
Lucario- You resist espeed however, defensive skarm should watch out- +2 adapt/tough claws close combat really hurts. SO offensive skarm CAN win this matchup depending on who's boosted or not
Snorlax- Unless lax is fire punch it can't do much while you can set up to +6 and roost and if it boosts too much, just kill it.
Thundurus- Obvious lose for defensive sets. But +2 Sharp Beak skarm with rocks can OHKO offensive thundy with brave bird
Latios- Latios can threaten the OHKO with tinted draco or thunderbolt but +2 skarm OHKOs with BB so, mixed bag
Aegislash- Unless you're at like +2 and it's in blade form, this will be a hard matchup, while it can skarm LO or spooky shadow balls to murder skarm.
Gengar- Tbolt and Shadow Ball are very threatening, but your brave bird is as well. Defensive Skarm sets however just kinda lose.
Mew- WoW threatens any non magic bounce skarm (btw magic bounce skarm is bad) so it's best not try your luck unless you're boosted quite a bit
Chansey- Set up bait, but Thunder Wave can really be annoying if you're not careful
Genesect- Flamethrower is really problematic, but genesect just loses if you're at +2
Diancie- You just lose, t you can set up on it easily if it doesn't have CM or HP Fire
Blaziken- you don't even need to boost to beat Blaziken, you just win. FF Skarm also has a (fairly) good time against it
Heracross- lol
Mandibuzz- You ca set upto +4 but foul play just gets os strong aftr a while, and unaware can make you cry because you boost, then you realize it's immune to boosts then get OHKOd by Foul Play lol.
Gyarados Mega- Defensive sets can win, and so can gale wings BB. But if Gyara is already boosted like +2 or +3 then don't even try, cause it's more risk than reward
Honchkrow- Heat wave sets hurt unless you're LO. But if it's not running 4th slot heat wave, you can just set up on it and roost off BB/SP dmg
Deoxys-D- Defog away hazards, no move thratens you, you can easily get to +6. So yeah, easy set up bait
Manaphy- It's a game of who boosts first. +3 surf kills but so does +2 Brave Bird.
Kyurem- Eh, Skarm can win, esp if boosted, Nothing too threatening aside from life orb HP fire.
Goodra- Flamethrower is an issue, but FF Skarm just has a field day with it. If you're boosted you wreck goodra though.
Suicune- Suicune beat you unless you boost to like +4 and scald burns fucking suck.
Cresselia- Easy set up bait, but watch out for twave
Landorus I- Simple set up bait, can't do much with the mixed/refridge set but the sheer force set is really threatening
Vaporeon- Kind of easy set up bait, but at the same time you have to worry about scald burns
Mega Swampert- Rain boosted waterfalls hurt offensive sets, but if you've boosted enough BB will kill making it an easier matchup
I might do more of these for other pokemon when I get time/not listening to k pop.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-204693049
can we ban terrak yet?
EDIT: here's a match from room tour finals, for all the illusion diancie haters
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-204717008
can we ban terrak yet?
EDIT: here's a match from room tour finals, for all the illusion diancie haters
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-204717008
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