ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Kink]

Shut the fuck up about your fucking Scald bans. Get a pacifier for your anus if you're that butthurt over it.

In other news, with the drop of Mega-Medicham into UU, I'd definitely say that Celebi and Cresselia should rise a rank right now since they are right now the only two counters to MegaCham that still have viable functions on team builds (and maybe Spiritomb).

Snorlax should also bump up a rank (A-). It's such a good Defensive Pokemon that can be thrown on a lot of different playstyles. It functions similarly to Blissey in the fact that it's a fat-ass special sponge with actual offensive options.

In my opinion, with the rise of Entei in UU, RestTalk Snorlax is arguably the best counter to it right now.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 208 HP / 124 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 148-175 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 208 HP / 124 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 178-210 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 58.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 208 HP / 124 Def Snorlax: 197-232 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Snorlax Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 178-210 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

(NOTE: This is koko's 208 HP / 124 Def / 176 SpDef Careful Snorlax.)

And considering it's running a Careful set, it has the bulk to switch into a shitton of Specially-oriented Pokemons, such as Hydreigons w/out Superpower, Shaymins, Pidgeots, and one of the handful of Pokemon that can deal with SubCM Chandelure.

In conclusion, Snorlax should go up to A- given the current metagame trends.

Furthermore, is it just me, or is A and A- rank a tad bit oversaturated? For one thing, I don't think Infernape is still necessarily an A- material anymore. For another thing, Beedrill-Mega should go up to A+ simply because it's such a good source of chip damage that can combine with other Volt-Turners (Raikou, Crobat, Celebi, Jirachi) to form really strong cores that complement each other in offensive power and defensive typing.

Mega Medicham hasn't "dropped" to UU, it's being suspected. Viability Rankings try to avoid being influenced by the inclusion of tests.

Also, your Snorlax calcs are a little off. I believe the Standard Rest Talk set is 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

edit: I also disagree with the changing of either Infernape or Beedrill. I'd go into insane detail but here's the TL;DR version: Infernape is one of the most diverse set up sweepers / anti-leads in the game with access to a plethora of offensive and support moves that make it far too viable for B rank, while Mega Beedrill simply cannot compete with more bulky / defensively reliable u-turners in the tier, especially with Entei and Lucario's E-speed running around. Priority decimates Beedrill, S/R causes it longevity problems, and frankly, its coverage is underwhelming against one of the biggest threats in the tier right now: Crobat.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Mega Medicham hasn't "dropped" to UU, it's being suspected. Viability Rankings try to avoid being influenced by the inclusion of tests.

Also, your Snorlax calcs are a little off. I believe the Standard Rest Talk set is 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD

Fair enough. tbh I just ripped the EV spread from Kokoloko's RMT in the "Team ShowCase" thread. Also, the EVs for standard Curselax 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpDef Careful. Regardless, calcs.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 136-162 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 64.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 165-195 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 11% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 182-215 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[pokemonisfun]

Shut the fuck up about your fucking Scald bans. Get a pacifier for your anus if you're that butthurt over it.

O_O

 

[Ununhexium]

Also, your Snorlax calcs are a little off. I believe the Standard Rest Talk set is 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD

that spread was used to dodge the 2HKO from Victini V-Create. I think the eaglehawk spread is correct (by random coincidence i just came up with it yesterday not knowing it was a thing already lol) and i think its enough to like survive Draco Meteor + Superpower from LO Hydreigon or something

 

[Kink]

that spread was used to dodge the 2HKO from Victini V-Create. I think the eaglehawk spread is correct (by random coincidence i just came up with it yesterday not knowing it was a thing already lol) and i think its enough to like survive Draco Meteor + Superpower from LO Hydreigon or something

erm, I wrote the analysis, the set I suggested is actually the classic Curselax EV spread. It also survives Draco + Superpower.

 

[DiscoDucky]

that spread was used to dodge the 2HKO from Victini V-Create. I think the eaglehawk spread is correct (by random coincidence i just came up with it yesterday not knowing it was a thing already lol) and i think its enough to like survive Draco Meteor + Superpower from LO Hydreigon or something

erm, I wrote the analysis, the set I suggested is actually the classic Curselax EV spread. It also survives Draco + Superpower.

It really doesn't matter which spread is "more correct", there's numerical proof that Snorlax functions as a counter / hard check to Entei.

 

[dingbat]

av entei is legit

prediction is a skill related thing, not a viability related thing

changes have been made.

 

[TheTraininator]

Here you go, by the way. :)

 

[Master B8s]

Gonna remark on the last sentence here: You cannot ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever use prediction in an argument. Ever. So you predict I'm gonna switch in Diancie (let's pretend Diancite lasted a little longer) with my Lucario in, so you go for the Iron Head? Whoops, I predicted your prediction and stayed in and boosted to +2 on the Iron Head, then +4 on the switch out. GG.

Seriously, there's a few unbreakable rules about Pokemon, and not using prediction in an argument is one of the most ironclad.

My bad he used 50/50 for his argument so I got caught up in that that's bad on my part, but the rest of my post still stands.

please don't talk about av entei, thanks.

AV Entei, whether being inferior to the CB set, is still a viable set, and one I find very effective.

 

[Schpoonman]

Totally understandable. And AV Entei is actually pretty sweet. You can't be burned, so weaker Scalds don't actually bug you that much. Meanwhile, you have the freedom to switch your moves, can use some of Fire's neat resistances and Entei's good bulk to eat a lot of attacks and retaliate with Sacred Fire or pick off weak threats with Extreme Speed.

 

[r0ady]

I'm going to agree with eaglehawk whole heatedly on the snorlax nom. Being able to switch into entei is monumental imo, and not to mention the curselax set is almost as if not just as threatening as crocune. Pretty much the only thing stopping a snorlax from setting up is a fighting type or absurdly strong physical attacker, but with snorlaxs access to body slam he can very easily punish these mons who think they can just switch in, and the exact same goes for whimsi who tries to switch in and encore it.

 

[Machi]

Beedrill-Mega should go up to A+ simply because it's such a good source of chip damage that can combine with other Volt-Turners (Raikou, Crobat, Celebi, Jirachi) to form really strong cores that complement each other in offensive power and defensive typing.

Another important aspect to consider is that Mega-Beedrill has one less competition with the speed tiers, with the loss of Mega-Zam, so he can afford to slightly invest in bulk so to speak to tank some priority better, or weak resisted special attacks. It has become more positive for him since other speedy megas have left the tier, making running max speed less of a necessity.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Also fell stinger beedrill can be dangerously game breaking if your opponent has something like a focus sashed user alive to pick off or anything quite weakened or decently weakened that's weak to bug and you think will stay in. Lots of people are like "oh I'll just sack my low health mon coz he will obviously use uturn" but then bam gettjng the +2 means you ohko crobat now and almost everything that doesn't resist your stab except except some big time walls.

 

[Karxrida]

Also fell stinger beedrill can be dangerously game breaking if your opponent has something like a focus sashed user alive to pick off or anything quite weakened or decently weakened that's weak to bug and you think will stay in. Lots of people are like "oh I'll just sack my low health mon coz he will obviously use uturn" but then bam gettjng the +2 means you ohko crobat now and almost everything that doesn't resist your stab except except some big time walls.

Fell Stinger is hilariously weak even with Adaptability and forces you to forgo one of Protect, U-turn, or Knock Off/Drill Run and leave you walled by something. There's also the issue of somehow not getting revenged by Scarfers, priority, and Mega Aero (not a UU player so correct me if I'm wrong to assume Jolly is common). Hell, Cresselia can revenge you if you don't have Knock Off.

+2 252+ Atk Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 265-313 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[YABO]

Fell Stinger is hilariously weak even with Adaptability and forces you to forgo one of Protect, U-turn, or Knock Off/Drill Run and leave you walled by something. There's also the issue of somehow not getting revenged by Scarfers, priority, and Mega Aero (not a UU player so correct me if I'm wrong to assume Jolly is common). Hell, Cresselia can revenge you if you don't have Knock Off.

+2 252+ Atk Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 265-313 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Each Beedrill set gets stopped by something and its coverage options are generally considered weak regardless. They only see usage in niche positions as you would normally rather click U-turn. Fell Stinger may not be the best option out there but it certainly is one that should be considered simply due to the lack of other options that are solid.

 

[DMT]

Can we get Braviary out of C? I think it's down there cuz no one bothers to use it.
I get that it doesn't exactly look super cool and all, but I mean, as a stallbreaker, it can set up on so much of the tier. Umbreon, Florges, Blissey, Mega-Aggron (besides roar), Swampert (again, roar), Cresselia, Aromatisse, Empoleon (roar), Forretress, Gligar, Vaporeon, it can setup on bulky Arcanine even if burned, and that's the defensive shit. It can setup on choiced stuff like scarf Hydreigon/LO noivern, it can take a shit ton of special hits, and yeah I dunno.

I mean, SubBU is the set I've been using, and it's cool guy. Scarf/Band are ridiculously strong after the whole defiant thing, and yeah.

Big Linda for S something other than C.

 

[Kurona]

Each Beedrill set gets stopped by something and its coverage options are generally considered weak regardless. They only see usage in niche positions as you would normally rather click U-turn. Fell Stinger may not be the best option out there but it certainly is one that should be considered simply due to the lack of other options that are solid.

The very fact you're clicking U-turn all the time should make it clear enough why set-up moves don't work well lol. As Karxrida said, it's hilariously weak, and Beedrill has trouble deciding whether to run Drill Run or Knock Off on it's set to even think about a sixth option.

 

[DiscoDucky]

fell stinger sounds like something that's more trendy than reliable.

Is the moveset UTurn/Poison Jab/Protect/Fell Stinger?

 

[Duskane]

fell stinger sounds like something that's more trendy than reliable.

Is the moveset UTurn/Poison Jab/Protect/Fell Stinger?

U turn,Knock off/drill run,Protect and Fell stinger

does anyone not run protect on beedrill?(because i don't)

 

[Swagodile]

U turn,Knock off/drill run,Protect and Fell stinger

does anyone not run protect on beedrill?(because i don't)

Running Protect is pretty much mandatory on Mega Beedrill, due to turn order being decided before Mega Evolution.

Fell Stinger is simply not reliable, especially on Mega Beedrill, who is a hit and run Pokemon.

I remember people hyping up Fell Stinger on Assault Vest Escavalier when XY began, and it also turned out to be gimmicky.

 

[Celsius]

It is too risky to run Beedrill without Protect , his speed is "low" and he is too frail to take a hit while he is mega-evolving .
For example you can't Mega-Evolve face to face with a Celebi Max Speed if he runs Psychic , or a Starmie without Protect ... But with Protect you can , and then hit first .

 

[Duskane]

Running Protect is pretty much mandatory on Mega Beedrill, due to turn order being decided before Mega Evolution.

Fell Stinger is simply not reliable, especially on Mega Beedrill, who is a hit and run Pokemon.

I remember people hyping up Fell Stinger on Assault Vest Escavalier when XY began, and it also turned out to be gimmicky.

get why people run it but id rather risk the speed ties or mega evolve on so say slower threats in UU Suicune donpan etc etc

and yeah gimicks do get old very fast sturdy weakness policy agility skarmoray one

 

[YABO]

The very fact you're clicking U-turn all the time should make it clear enough why set-up moves don't work well lol. As Karxrida said, it's hilariously weak, and Beedrill has trouble deciding whether to run Drill Run or Knock Off on it's set to even think about a sixth option.

Well how often does Beedrill actually click something other than u-turn or poison jab. When I was running Beedrill at the beginning of ORAS I came to the conclusion that clicking Drill Run was literally a waste of a turn as it hardly did any damage to most things that come in on U-turn. Knock Off is similar despite its added utility of removing an item. Both only have marginal use in a normal battle. Also, don't sell a +2 U-turn short. About a month back I ran a SD set with U-turn and some strong defensive pivots. Basically what ended up happening was I would SD on the switch to either Hippow, Pert, etc. then in the case of the former two I would smack with roughly 50% damage iirc. As I said before, its not the BEST option but the other options aren't too thrilling either.

 

[Limitless]

When I was running Beedrill at the beginning of ORAS I came to the conclusion that clicking Drill Run was literally a waste of a turn as it hardly did any damage to most things that come in on U-turn.

Uh, what? Breaking something like Empoleon seems like a cool thing to do. And not that I've used PIF's set or claim for it to work, but if it did break Crobat, I would think that's highly valuable too. Just because your allotment of teams don't utilize the set doesn't mean a team designated to exploit the rarity of the set won't work. If you break Crobat, odds are something like Serperior and/or Mienshao now sweep.

I can't stand when people downplay a creative set just because another set may be more viable in general. Take the creativity for what it is: a niche move-set that will likely win you more games than any generic set ever will.

 

[YABO]

I can't stand when people downplay a creative set just because another set may be more viable in general. Take the creativity for what it is: a niche move-set that will likely win you more games than any generic set ever will.

That's what I was saying. Drill Run/Knock Off is standard on MDrill. Breaking Empoleon is neat. Regardless, in the vast majority of cases you're going to be clicking U-turn as it's
a) the safest option
b) preserves momentum
c) still does a fk ton to most common switch ins.

I didn't devalue any particular set just pointed out that the common moves only have niche usage in most battles; just like Fell Stinger has limited usefulness. If anything, we're arguing the same point that the final move on your Beedrill should be tailored to whatever your squad can't handle.