Other ORAS OU Research Thread

[Nova]

Welcome, OU players and all those looking for an excellent competitive Pokemon experience!

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:

• Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• Sign-Ups close Wednesday nights (about three and a half days of sign-ups), so be sure to sign up before they close!
• Errrr....I don't have any prizes (yet), but obviously, your name with be forever in this thread's Hall of Fame =]
• You must post a ladder ranking in order to win the above prize(s).

I feel the previous research threads had some issues of featuring Pokemon that were unviable in OU so I decided to start out with some Pokemon that are good in OU but have untapped potential

This Week's Research Pokemon:

Diancie (Mega)

Alakazam (Mega)

Serperior

How useful are these Pokemon in ORAS OU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning.

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• 
  
  • Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown OU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends.

 

[estralita]

So the way this works is we choose a pokemon, sign up, talk about their uses, and post logs and ladder rankings? Well...
Username: estralita
Alt Name: altstralita
Ladder Ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Serperior

 

[-altercation-]

this is fantastic. will write up more later!

Username: GGamer
Alt: Rise of Anaconda
Ladder Standing: N/A
Research Subject: Serperior

 

[Alter]

Username: Alter
Alt: adjective spaceman
Ladder Standing: n/a
Research Subject(s): Serperior

will post some replays/thoughts later on

 

[Clone]

Ehh, Wynaut

Username: Clone
Alt Name: LT1A Clone
Ladder Ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Serperior, Diancie

Using an OLT account because the ladder reset killed it.

 

[Geotal]

Username: Geotal
Alt Name: Snake Lord Geotal
Ladder Ranking: N/A
Pokemon: Serperior

 

[looiiyut]

Username: looiiyut2
Alt name: Albtest
Ladder ranking: n/a
Pokemon: serperior

 

[ThePack]

Sounds fun :]
Username: ThePack
Alt Name: Anomura
Ladder Ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Diancie

 

[Fourth Inversion]

Username: Fourth Inversion
Alt name: Psychotic Tracing
Ladder Ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Mega Alakazam

Should be interesting. Going with the one I haven't used before in ORAS OU.

 

[Costi]

Username: Costi
Alt Name: Costi93
Ladder ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Alakazam

 

[Invok3r]

Username: Invok3r
Alt Name: Serperior Tactics
Ladder ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Serperior

Should be fun, haven't used this guy yet.

 

[Jukain]

jukain
snake food
0
serperior

 

[ArchPhantom]

Username: ArchPhantom
Alt Name: TheTwistedSamurai
Ladder Ranking: n/a
Pokemon: Diancie-Mega

 

[Fourth Inversion]

Um, so is there a start date for this? It's been a few days since anyone's signed up, so I hope it's alright to try and kickstart some discussion.

In ORAS OU, Mega Alakazam is now forced to run a Timid nature to outspeed all of the newly introduced Megas, but with 175 SpA, still packs quite a punch. I've started to build my team, and am having difficulty deciding on the ideal moveset to best support my teammates. Psychic/Psyshock is mandatory, as is Focus Blast, despite its 50% 70% accuracy to deal with Dark types. Shadow Ball has a low base power for a coverage move, but is necessary to reliably revenge kill some (weakened) dangerous Mega Pokemon, such as Mega Gallade, Mega Metagross, as well as Lati@s. The fourth slot is problematic, as options like Energy Ball (Trace Swift Swim and sweep through a Rain team), Hidden Power Fire or Ice, Encore and Substitute are all appealing. I started by trying Substitute, but found that a lot of players will just stay in and attack, as any switchin will likely be outsped, and will have to take two attacks before striking back. I'm probably going to test Encore next, as that also offers a way of forcing 50/50's with Bisharp, and can shut down a lot of setup pokemon, with the proviso of catching them using a non-attacking move.

Mega Diancie gets incredible coverage with STAB Fairy and Rock moves, along with Earth Power, and it's very easy for an otherwise solid defensive core to be hit super effectively by one of Mega Diancie's moves. I think the main decision with Mega Diancie's moveset is whether or not to run Protect, as not doing so allows you to run Calm Mind/Rock Polish/Hidden Power, to improve your matchup against Stall/Offense/pokemon like Ferrothorn. On the other hand, Mega Diancie doesn't have too much defensive utility, and it has to potentially take a hit with its low defenses + speed tier on the turn that it Mega Evolves, as it can't really spare EVs to invest in bulk. Fairy/Rock doesn't have great defensive type synergy, but Magic Bounce stops it from being statused/Taunted/Encored, and its typing gives it resistances to all of Talonflame's attacks (outside of CB Steel Wing variants), something which is a boon for offensive teams. I'm interested to see what sets people will run, and if anyone takes the option of dropping Diamond Storm for Ancient Power for a purely special set or decides to run with a two attack set.

 

[looiiyut]

Um, so is there a start date for this? It's been a few days since anyone's signed up, so I hope it's alright to try and kickstart some discussion.

In ORAS OU, Mega Alakazam is now forced to run a Timid nature to outspeed all of the newly introduced Megas, but with 175 SpA, still packs quite a punch. I've started to build my team, and am having difficulty deciding on the ideal moveset to best support my teammates. Psychic/Psyshock is mandatory, as is Focus Blast, despite its 50% 70% accuracy to deal with Dark types. Shadow Ball has a low base power for a coverage move, but is necessary to reliably revenge kill some (weakened) dangerous Mega Pokemon, such as Mega Gallade, Mega Metagross, as well as Lati@s. The fourth slot is problematic, as options like Energy Ball (Trace Swift Swim and sweep through a Rain team), Hidden Power Fire or Ice, Encore and Substitute are all appealing. I started by trying Substitute, but found that a lot of players will just stay in and attack, as any switchin will likely be outsped, and will have to take two attacks before striking back. I'm probably going to test Encore next, as that also offers a way of forcing 50/50's with Bisharp, and can shut down a lot of setup pokemon, with the proviso of catching them using a non-attacking move.

Mega Diancie gets incredible coverage with STAB Fairy and Rock moves, along with Earth Power, and it's very easy for an otherwise solid defensive core to be hit super effectively by one of Mega Diancie's moves. I think the main decision with Mega Diancie's moveset is whether or not to run Protect, as not doing so allows you to run Calm Mind/Rock Polish/Hidden Power, to improve your matchup against Stall/Offense/pokemon like Ferrothorn. On the other hand, Mega Diancie doesn't have too much defensive utility, and it has to potentially take a hit with its low defenses + speed tier on the turn that it Mega Evolves, as it can't really spare EVs to invest in bulk. Fairy/Rock doesn't have great defensive type synergy, but Magic Bounce stops it from being statused/Taunted/Encored, and its typing gives it resistances to all of Talonflame's attacks (outside of CB Steel Wing variants), something which is a boon for offensive teams. I'm interested to see what sets people will run, and if anyone takes the option of dropping Diamond Storm for Ancient Power for a purely special set or decides to run with a two attack set.

I've never used mega diancie but i made some calculation about diamond storm and ancient power. If you don't run a CM set, diamond storm is better than ancient power also with a unfavorable nature:

0- Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 254-300 (66.1 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 284-336 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 252-296 (65.6 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Diamond storm is also usefull against gengar (if you win the speed tie)
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 144-171 (55.5 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Mega Diancie Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 217-256 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Diamond storm hits hard standard magic guard clefable
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Fourth Inversion]

In this post, I'll explain the teambuilding process that I went through in my initial draft of the team.

3 Attacks (Psychic/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball) + Substitute. Substitute protects from priority moves, and dodges Sucker Punch. Mega Alakazam is an excellent late game cleaner, and performs best against offensive and balanced builds. The immediate weaknesses (or rather, teams that Mega Alakazam would never be able to perform well against) that came to mind included stall (particularly Mega Sableye stall teams) and priority users. In addition, Mega Alakazam has perfect neutral coverage, but limited super-effective coverage with the standard 3 attacks, and as a result Mega Alakazam can rarely OHKO a pokemon at full health with a neutral hit. Because of this, I decide that Spikes support would also be appreciated, and with those ideas as a starting point, the first draft of my team emerged.

Mold Breaker/Leftovers (Earthquake, Iron Head, Rapid Spin, Toxic). Designed to take on and dismantle Mega Sableye stall, and fat pokemon in general.

Leftovers - (Overheat/Volt Switch/Will-O-Wisp/Pain Split). This is less standard than Rotom-W, but the immediate draw to it was the plethora of resistances it has over Rotom-W including a valuable Fairy resist, which is useful on a team where Mega Alakazam doesn't provide any defensive synergy. Excadrill provides Rapid Spin support, so the Stealth Rock weakness is a bit less of a concern, and although Overheat is a worse STAB than Hydro Pump, in this current metagame, the ability to OHKO Mega Metagross (I'm using some SpA investment, for a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rocks) is something that's useful for any team to have.

Leftovers - (Spikes/Leech Seed/Spiky Shield/Drain Punch). Standard, but very useful for taking on Bisharp and other Dark types, as well as the T-Tar/Excadrill sand core.

Choice Specs - (Hydro Pump/Scald/Secret Sword/Hidden Power [Electric]. Mostly standard, although H.P. Electric on Specs is primarily used as an emergency check for Belly Drum Azumarill. Keldeo adds much needed wallbreaking power to the team, and gives another means of checking Bisharp.

Magic Guard/Leftovers - (Moonblast/Stealth Rock/Softboiled/Fire Blast). I felt that Clefable was the best rock setter for my team, as it offered an excellent defensive typing, being a good switchin to specially based Dragons, and the team had a reasonable answer to the common Steel and Poison types in OU.

On paper, the team seemed to be decent, although there were some weak points that became more obvious with testing. Talonflame was a large problem, particularly Swords Dance + Roost sets, as Rotom-H is not a reliable counter to them, and Clefable, unlike some other Stealth Rock setters, is unable to touch Talonflame with any standard set. Substitute on Mega Alakazam was effective at times, but opponents lacking a reliable counter generally stayed in, and if the Substitute ended up being broken, Mega Alakazam would now be in potential OHKO range of priority moves like Adamant Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch, and Azumarill's Choice Banded Aqua Jet. Although Chesnaught and Keldeo often worked well together, they checked similar pokemon, and the shared weaknesses coming from their Fighting type destroyed the integrity of the F/W/G core. In addition, although Clefable seemed like a good Stealth Rock setter for this team, Clefable's typing, reliable recovery and ability made it the team's go-to switchin, and it was often forced to use Softboiled to remain healthy, instead of setting up Stealth Rocks. These were the key weaknesses I needed to try and address, alongside some others that I'd picked up on, but hadn't actually faced during the initial testing period, such as lacking a good way to kill Mega Slowbro.

 

[Fourth Inversion]

This is my final Mega-Alakazam set.

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Encore

The Speed EVs are standard, and outspeed Scarfed Tyranitar by 1 point before Mega-Evolving, and outspeeds +1 Spe Jolly Mega Gyarados by 1 point after Mega-Evolving (also Mega Beedrill and Mega Sceptile). The remaining 32 EVs are best placed in HP, as it's a roll as to whether Mega-Alakazam can avoid being OHKOed by some faster physical or special attacks like Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor or Sharp Beak Talonflame's Brave Bird. Encore was originally intended to fulfill the same role as Substitute, by dodging Sucker Punch, but it's also surprisingly effective and unexpected in the ORAS Metagame, as slower (non-DD) setup sweepers are more common in ORAS then in XY (for example, Baton Pass Celebi, Swords Dance Gliscor and Mega Slowbro), and consequently, there are more setup moves to lock pokemon into. Mega Alakazam already gets STAB and perfect neutral coverage with the first 3 moveslots, so the 4th move is in effect a 'lure' of sorts, and with the need to run a Timid Nature in ORAS, a non-attacking move is likely to support the overall team better.

Oh, and Psychic is used over Psyshock as it has a higher base power, gets boosted by Sheer Force if you manage to trace it off of a Landorus, and is only better against Chansey + AV users.

I've settled on a preliminary final version of the team, with Ferrothorn replacing Clefable, and Iron Defense Mandibuzz replacing Chesnaught, and, if there's interest left in this thread, I'll start laddering on the registered account name and getting some replays posted.

 

[Noveliss]

Sounds cool. :]
Username: QuagGod
Alt: BrightLikeADiamond
Ladder Ranking: n/a
Pokémon: Diancie-Mega

 

[AM]

Nova what's going on with this project?

 

[AM]

Thread died pretty quickly and Vertex will be making a new version of this later this week.