Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[Alphanex20]

Welp, I just wanted to ask about these...

Tyrantrum@Lum Berry (Nickname: Grimlock)
ROCK HEAD Ability (Yes this is soon-to-be-legal)
Jolly Nature
252Atk 4def 252Spe
Head Smash
Earthquake
Outrage
Dragon Dance

When I saw that HA Tyrunt was set to be given out on Serebii, I thought "I MUST try this in the Maison." I wondered if it was worth using with Head Smash's 80% accuracy, but I'm not 100% sure yet (I haven't tested it obviously, but I wanted opinions). Jolly outspeeds everything below Aerodactyl/Jolteon after a DD, along with the CB Tyrantrum I keep hearing horror stories about. Outrage and EQ are pretty straightforward, coverage-wise.


Beedril@Beedrilite (Hopefully Shiny and Nickname: Waspinator)
Jolly Nature
252Atk 4Def 252Spe
Protect
Poison Jab
U-Turn/X-scissor
Drill Run/Knock Off

Something I was hearing tear stuff up at Maison over in the ORAS section. I probably won't get a massive streak with it, but I do want the trophy (and to use this). Protect lets you mega up and scout sets safely (and gain a massive speed boost). Mainly I was wondering which Bug STAB and coverage to go with, U-Turn for moving around (notably lets you bring something in on a sash user and pick it off) or X-Scissor for brute power, along with either Knock Off (you outpace most ghosts and can easily OHKO them) or Drill Run (mainly for non-Sturdy rocks and steels and Heatran, who you can clean out easily, but there are Sashed and Shuca variants which you can't break). Partner-wise I'm mainly leaning toward Aegislash and a flyer, but again I'm not 100% on anything yet.

If you have any ideas for helping me, please give them (also if you get the name references you are awesome).

 

[cant say]

Welp, I just wanted to ask about these...

Tyrantrum@Lum Berry (Nickname: Grimlock)
ROCK HEAD Ability (Yes this is soon-to-be-legal)
Jolly Nature
252Atk 4def 252Spe
Head Smash
Earthquake
Outrage
Dragon Dance

When I saw that HA Tyrunt was set to be given out on Serebii, I thought "I MUST try this in the Maison." I wondered if it was worth using with Head Smash's 80% accuracy, but I'm not 100% sure yet (I haven't tested it obviously, but I wanted opinions). Jolly outspeeds everything below Aerodactyl/Jolteon after a DD, along with the CB Tyrantrum I keep hearing horror stories about. Outrage and EQ are pretty straightforward, coverage-wise.


Beedril@Beedrilite (Hopefully Shiny and Nickname: Waspinator)
Jolly Nature
252Atk 4Def 252Spe
Protect
Poison Jab
U-Turn/X-scissor
Drill Run/Knock Off

Something I was hearing tear stuff up at Maison over in the ORAS section. I probably won't get a massive streak with it, but I do want the trophy (and to use this). Protect lets you mega up and scout sets safely (and gain a massive speed boost). Mainly I was wondering which Bug STAB and coverage to go with, U-Turn for moving around (notably lets you bring something in on a sash user and pick it off) or X-Scissor for brute power, along with either Knock Off (you outpace most ghosts and can easily OHKO them) or Drill Run (mainly for non-Sturdy rocks and steels and Heatran, who you can clean out easily, but there are Sashed and Shuca variants which you can't break). Partner-wise I'm mainly leaning toward Aegislash and a flyer, but again I'm not 100% on anything yet.

If you have any ideas for helping me, please give them (also if you get the name references you are awesome).

Since the last 3 posts are talking about STAB options and accuracy I think you can guess what my answer is going to be. All I'm going to say is there's a reason that Rotom-W runs Hidden Power Water instead of Hydro Pump here. If you want to run Head Smash then you need to increase your accuracy through either Hone Claws or Gravity, but that requires a whole lot of team support to pull off. Maybe it could work in Rotations where you can Dragon Dance and rotate to a Gravity user, you also don't waste turns trying to get Tyrantrum in like you would in singles (I might have to try out Tyrantrum as my fourth team member in the Sand-Room team I have planned for Rotations)

Mega Beedrill is really fun to use though! Don't count on it to take a hit but it gets enough OHKO's / can U-turn out of stuff it can't kill anyway that it works pretty well

 

[Mulan15262]

While I agree with you (non accurate moves have their place), the question was about main STAB options. Azumarill has Play Rough as secondary STAB because it should probably be sweeping with Belly Drum + Aqua Jet anyway, if Aqua Jet wasn't perfectly accurate then the strategy wouldn't be as viable. Air Slash wasn't Togekiss' main move on its set either as it's main role was to Yawn and Safeguard so your Kangskhan / Aegislash could get in safely. When a Pokemon's main move (ie: the one you rely on the most) is inaccurate then you're asking for trouble. Imagine how much more viable Tyranitar would be if it had a reliable rock move (just as an example).

I think to provide I better answer, Mulan15262 needs to tell us what the move + Pokemon are exactly

edit: auto correct had some funny fixes

I'm trying for a team that is partially Beat Up Whimsicott and Justified Terrakion. The Whimsicott uses Beat Up on Terrakion to boost it to +6 (I'm playing in Triples), and then the Terrakion mostly sweeps the other team with Earthquake and Rock Slide. I some other good pokemon so my team isn't entirely reliant upon it working and can still function well even if Terrakion gets KOed or Whimsicott is KOed before it can get to +6. I try to have Terrakion use Earthquake instead of Rock Slide whenever I can, though.

 

[VaporeonIce]

I'm trying for a team that is partially Beat Up Whimsicott and Justified Terrakion. The Whimsicott uses Beat Up on Terrakion to boost it to +6 (I'm playing in Triples), and then the Terrakion mostly sweeps the other team with Earthquake and Rock Slide. I some other good pokemon so my team isn't entirely reliant upon it working and can still function well even if Terrakion gets KOed or Whimsicott is KOed before it can get to +6. I try to have Terrakion use Earthquake instead of Rock Slide whenever I can, though.

Ha, I've had passing thoughts about making a Whimsicott+Terrakion triples team myself. I say go for it; Triples is definitely the most forgiving format, and if nothing else, you'll learn a lot. Watch out for Wide Guard!

Alphanex20 , I wouldn't touch Rock Head Tyrantrum with a ten foot pole, simply because of that 80% accuracy. If you're bold enough to try the Rotations thing, then go for it. My main hesitation is that the Rotations set-up requires EVERYTHING going right (successfully setting up Gravity, setting up a DD with Tyrantrum without having it faint, not losing all 8 of Head Smash's PP to stuff like Pressure/Protect/Steelix/Cobalion...), when usually, something will go wrong. But if you're bold enough to try it, more power to you!

 

[turskain]

I think 99% accuracy gained through Wide Lens is good enough.

The bigger problem is the opportunity cost of having to run Wide Lens to become reliable and the other features of the Pokémon in question. The reason you don't see Wide Lens Azumarill on a 1000-win team in Singles is that it's generally outclassed by Greninja and Suicune.



The matter of accuracy is very simple: only use 100% accurate moves. The exceptions to this rule are specific 90-99% accurate moves such as Icy Wind, Toxic, Leech Seed, Rock Blast (Cloyster), Rock Slide (Doubles/Triples coverage move), and using Wide Lens to elevate a 90% accurate move to 99% accuracy. If the move doesn't fit this criteria, consider an alternative like HP Water on Rotom-W, keep the inaccurate move if there are no alternatives and it is rarely used, or ditch the Pokémon altogether.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I'm trying for a team that is partially Beat Up Whimsicott and Justified Terrakion. The Whimsicott uses Beat Up on Terrakion to boost it to +6 (I'm playing in Triples), and then the Terrakion mostly sweeps the other team with Earthquake and Rock Slide. I some other good pokemon so my team isn't entirely reliant upon it working and can still function well even if Terrakion gets KOed or Whimsicott is KOed before it can get to +6. I try to have Terrakion use Earthquake instead of Rock Slide whenever I can, though.

Take this with a grain of salt, because my experience with this sort of team was limited to Gen V, but Weavile was only about a million times better and more practical than Whimsicott ever could have been for the Beat Up user.

For the simple reason that Weavile can kill a number of Terrakion's checks, whereas Whimsicott can only give them that adorably useless million-watt smile. Starmie, Sceptile, Lati@s, and certain things that simply outspeed it and are annoying, like Gengar. Weavile's Beat Up does inflict more damage than Whimsicott's, but that's the price you pay for a partner that actually maintains your momentum with you.

But I digress. A lot of poke builds have changed between the Subway and Maison and I've run no calcs. Back then, an Expert Belt was enough for Weavile to secure some kills. Unfortunately I don't remember my backup well, but they would have had to have at least 115 attack.

 

[Theorymon]

Hey yall, been lurking this thread since the gen 4 days (because Jumpman16 used to talk a lot about battle frontier on IRC lol).

In anticipation for the inevitable battle frontier we're probably getting in whatever version will feature Zygarde finally not sucking, I've decided to breed stuff for Battle Maison!

At the moment I'm thinking of just stealing VaporeonIce 's team since his team seems like it really fits what I like the most about the battle tower stuff (exploiting the AI). However, I'm wondering, are there any interesting ORAS modfications that can be made to this team? I know the ORAS Battle Maison isn't any different, but in the back of my mind I wonder if any of the new mega evos could do something interesting. I assume not since the team seems to be full of synergy, but I wanna ask just in case!

Also in general, what are the best new mega evos for maison at the moment?

 

[GG Unit]

Take this with a grain of salt, because my experience with this sort of team was limited to Gen V, but Weavile was only about a million times better and more practical than Whimsicott ever could have been for the Beat Up user.

For the simple reason that Weavile can kill a number of Terrakion's checks, whereas Whimsicott can only give them that adorably useless million-watt smile. Starmie, Sceptile, Lati@s, and certain things that simply outspeed it and are annoying, like Gengar. Weavile's Beat Up does inflict more damage than Whimsicott's, but that's the price you pay for a partner that actually maintains your momentum with you.

But I digress. A lot of poke builds have changed between the Subway and Maison and I've run no calcs. Back then, an Expert Belt was enough for Weavile to secure some kills. Unfortunately I don't remember my backup well, but they would have had to have at least 115 attack.

Mat Block can help out with a lot of those specific issues, but the bigger problem is that it's hard to justify using a Pokemon whose main purpose is powering up one teammate's spread moves, especially one like Rock Slide that has low BP (probably the only Rock resist it can KO at +6 is Dugtrio) and can miss.

If you want to use a template of "middle Pokemon gets team support and KOs everything with a powerful move" you'd probably be better off with an Eruption or Water Spout user which would hit much harder on the first turn, which would free Whimsicott to use moves that could better support the rest of the team like Tailwind, Fake Tears, Worry Seed (for Water or Fire absorbing abilities), and so on.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Hey yall, been lurking this thread since the gen 4 days (because Jumpman16 used to talk a lot about battle frontier on IRC lol).

In anticipation for the inevitable battle frontier we're probably getting in whatever version will feature Zygarde finally not sucking, I've decided to breed stuff for Battle Maison!

At the moment I'm thinking of just stealing VaporeonIce 's team since his team seems like it really fits what I like the most about the battle tower stuff (exploiting the AI). However, I'm wondering, are there any interesting ORAS modfications that can be made to this team? I know the ORAS Battle Maison isn't any different, but in the back of my mind I wonder if any of the new mega evos could do something interesting. I assume not since the team seems to be full of synergy, but I wanna ask just in case!

Also in general, what are the best new mega evos for maison at the moment?

I was theorymonning (ba dum ching!) an Azelf (or Uxie or Mesprit) + Durant + Megagross team that I was never going to actually use (I have plenty Entrainment Durant in my life already). The lead pixie would use Stealth Rock if Durant could freely use Entrainment on the lead (to break Sturdy and help Megagross KO resists with Bullet Punch...and SR actually REALLY helps there), and Taunt/Trick if something would stop it from doing so (e.g. a Protect lead), with Healing Wish/Memento/Explosion as a way to get Durant in safely. Durant would use Entrainment. Megagross would be Jolly nature with Protect/Hone Claws/Bullet Punch/Rock Slide or EQ. But I couldn't find a way to make Megagross beat both stuff like Steelix and Magnezone (requires EQ) and avoid Flame Body/Static from Talonflame/Zapdos/Moltres (requires Rock Slide). I guess EQ would be pretty reliable, though; you'd just have to hope you have Stealth Rock when those three Pokemon come out. It probably wouldn't win 1000 battles, but it might be able to win 200.

 

[Mulan15262]

Take this with a grain of salt, because my experience with this sort of team was limited to Gen V, but Weavile was only about a million times better and more practical than Whimsicott ever could have been for the Beat Up user.

For the simple reason that Weavile can kill a number of Terrakion's checks, whereas Whimsicott can only give them that adorably useless million-watt smile. Starmie, Sceptile, Lati@s, and certain things that simply outspeed it and are annoying, like Gengar. Weavile's Beat Up does inflict more damage than Whimsicott's, but that's the price you pay for a partner that actually maintains your momentum with you.

But I digress. A lot of poke builds have changed between the Subway and Maison and I've run no calcs. Back then, an Expert Belt was enough for Weavile to secure some kills. Unfortunately I don't remember my backup well, but they would have had to have at least 115 attack.

Barely anything will outspeed Terrakion after the Talonflame uses Tailwind (really only slower pokemon in TR or faster pokemon with their own Tailwind). Whimsicott also sits there as an easy KO for the opponent, making foes target Whimsicott instead of Terrakion (working multiple times due to Focus Sash). Whimsicott can also get rid of some rock resists (especially Rock/Ground or Water/Ground) with Giga Drain, or power up Terrakion's Rock Slide/Earthquake with Helping Hand. Whimsicott just mostly sticks with its role as a team supporter and that it does pretty well.

Mat Block can help out with a lot of those specific issues, but the bigger problem is that it's hard to justify using a Pokemon whose main purpose is powering up one teammate's spread moves, especially one like Rock Slide that has low BP (probably the only Rock resist it can KO at +6 is Dugtrio) and can miss.

If you want to use a template of "middle Pokemon gets team support and KOs everything with a powerful move" you'd probably be better off with an Eruption or Water Spout user which would hit much harder on the first turn, which would free Whimsicott to use moves that could better support the rest of the team like Tailwind, Fake Tears, Worry Seed (for Water or Fire absorbing abilities), and so on.

Most of the rock-resists can be taken out by a +6 Earthquake from Terrakion. If either one would leave me missing a KO, Whimsicott can use Giga Drain or Talonflame can use Brave Bird/Flare Blitz on the pokemon and take it out. Once Whimsicott gets KOed (as almost always happens), I send in Tornadus, Gyarados, or Mega Latios and now have two powerful attackers.

The only FE pokemon that resist both Rock and Ground are Breloom, Torterra (both easily beaten by Talonflame), Flygon (which I've yet to see), and Bronzong (which is probably KOed by +6 Rock Slide after Talonflame's Flare Blitz).

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Whimsicott also sits there as an easy KO for the opponent, making foes target Whimsicott instead of Terrakion (working multiple times due to Focus Sash).

Not to play devil's advocate, but this isn't really true, especially with how radically different their typings are.

The specific examples I mentioned, for instance- Starmie, Sceptile, Lati@s- have no reason not to opt to slay Terrakion since their STAB moves will easily do the job. Not only that, in the case of the latter two, they have basically no reason to target Whimsicott with anything in their movepool as long as Terrakion is present. Strong steel types are a coin flip as they can target either one as long as the move will do the job. In the case of Sturdy Magnezone4, this pretty much means you have to target it with two pokes to be safe.

There are a few very strong neutral hits that can and will target Whimsicott instead, sure, but unless you're using a lv1 Aron or some other extremely weak NFE, you should never assume that just by having inherently lower stats, it becomes a magnet for abuse.

This isn't to say you aren't equipped to handle those matchups, but the logic behind it isn't very sound.

 

[GG Unit]

Barely anything will outspeed Terrakion after the Talonflame uses Tailwind (really only slower pokemon in TR or faster pokemon with their own Tailwind). Whimsicott also sits there as an easy KO for the opponent, making foes target Whimsicott instead of Terrakion (working multiple times due to Focus Sash). Whimsicott can also get rid of some rock resists (especially Rock/Ground or Water/Ground) with Giga Drain, or power up Terrakion's Rock Slide/Earthquake with Helping Hand. Whimsicott just mostly sticks with its role as a team supporter and that it does pretty well.



Most of the rock-resists can be taken out by a +6 Earthquake from Terrakion. If either one would leave me missing a KO, Whimsicott can use Giga Drain or Talonflame can use Brave Bird/Flare Blitz on the pokemon and take it out. Once Whimsicott gets KOed (as almost always happens), I send in Tornadus, Gyarados, or Mega Latios and now have two powerful attackers.

The only FE pokemon that resist both Rock and Ground are Breloom, Torterra (both easily beaten by Talonflame), Flygon (which I've yet to see), and Bronzong (which is probably KOed by +6 Rock Slide after Talonflame's Flare Blitz).

If Whimsicott is using Giga Drain, Terrakion's not +6. You're not going to be attacking with Rock Slide and Earthquake at the same time; if there's a Ground immunity and a Rock resist next to one another (and this is assuming everything goes right prior to a +6 Terrakion attacking, meaning nothing gets hit with Fake Out, outspeeds/Quick Claws and KOs Whimsicott or Terrakion, dodges a Rock Slide, etc.) you have to make a choice and if the one you didn't attack KOs Terrakion, that's basically trading 2 of your Pokemon for one of theirs. The 3rd team member can't pick off every Trick Room, Focus Sash, Sturdy, Quick Claw, etc. user all at once.

 

[Mulan15262]

If Whimsicott is using Giga Drain, Terrakion's not +6. You're not going to be attacking with Rock Slide and Earthquake at the same time; if there's a Ground immunity and a Rock resist next to one another (and this is assuming everything goes right prior to a +6 Terrakion attacking, meaning nothing gets hit with Fake Out, outspeeds/Quick Claws and KOs Whimsicott or Terrakion, dodges a Rock Slide, etc.) you have to make a choice and if the one you didn't attack KOs Terrakion, that's basically trading 2 of your Pokemon for one of theirs. The 3rd team member can't pick off every Trick Room, Focus Sash, Sturdy, Quick Claw, etc. user all at once.

If Terrakion has already gotten to +6 on turn 1, Whimsicott can use Giga Drain on all later turns. Whimsicott also has a Focus Sash so that one hit thanks to a Crobat that outspeeds and normally OHKOes Whimsicott (which did in fact cause me a few headaches before I chose a Focus Sash for Whimsicott's item). Also note that my team is not entirely reliant upon this strategy working, I've gotten through a few battles where Terrakion was not able to get to +6 and deal massive damage. Yes, those cases you listed aren't that good, but I've gotten through those a few times thanks to other good pokemon in reserve. Also keep in mind that this is Triples so if I leave a pokemon not KOed and it takes out Terrakion, I probably still KOed 2 pokemon for that one, and Whimsicott isn't completely useless if Terrakion is KOed. Terrakion also isn't useless if Whimsicott is KOed before it can use Beat Up on Terrakion.

Also, quite a few Trick Room users would still be KOed by Terrakion before it can use Trick Room.

 

[turskain]

So I just lost my Rotations streak at 400-something - in the same way as the 528-streak, misplaying against Destiny Bond and getting +6 Klefki killed, which was completely avoidable.

While I failed to get a record, I will post the changes in Team Substitute V2 (in bold):

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 212 HP / 84 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SDef / 188 Spe
-Outrage
-Substitute
-Roost
-Dragon Dance

Gengar @ Focus sash
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Bomb
-Destiny Bond
-Toxic

Dragonite's new EV spread achieves the following calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 12 Def Dragonite: 161-192 (83.4 - 99.4%)
252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 212 HP / 12 Def Dragonite: 152-182 (78.7 - 94.3%)
252+ SpA Articuno Blizzard vs. 212 HP / 12 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 164-194 (84.9 - 100.5%)
+2 84+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 192-226 (100 - 117.7%)

Power isn't as necessary in Rotations, and the Sub/Roost component of Dragonite is improved a lot. The odds against Mold Breaker Haxorus4 and Mold Breaker Sawk4 (with Taunt) are also improved. Speed target is the same as before to outspeed Tyrantrum4.

Gengar has Toxic over Protect. In XY, Toxic never misses when used by a Poison-type Pokémon; Gengar can use Toxic reliably and effectively even with its low bulk thanks to this. It speeds up battles against Quagsire, Volcarona, Articuno1, and many other targets that are vulnerable to Toxic and generally adds another way to win that is useful at times.

These are somewhat minor changes and the team still functions similarly - if you want to grab #1 in Rotations, this is the team I'd recommend. The rest of the team is unchanged; I experimented with Return and PuP on Megakhan, but found that Fake Out + Double-Edge served the team's needs the best.




I also improved Lucario/Greninja for Doubles V2 slightly (and lost to misplays early on with that, too):

Gastrodon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 0 Speed
EVs: 164 HP / 108 Def / 220 SAtk / 12 SDef
-Earth Power
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Clear Smog

You've already probably seen Clear Smog on Eppie's new Doubles team. Just to be clear, while Eppie was the first to post the addition of Clear Smog in this thread, it was originally theorymon'd on IRC by me after I lost at 200-something on a second run, and I've talked about it there quite a bit.

Clear Smog has perfect accuracy (like Aura Sphere), is an attacking move with 50 base power (so it is usable with Assault Vest), and removes stat changes from the target like Haze. It allows Gastrodon to take on Calm Mind boosters, remove Double Team boosts from the likes of Zapdos2, Dragon Dances from Gyarados4, and more. It is the optimal 4th move for Assault Vest Gastrodon; Sludge Bomb and other options I'd considered were mostly filler, but this move greatly increases Gastrodon's utility and especially helps against Zapdos2 and Lati@s1 with my team.

I considered different EV spreads, but settled on an almost identical one to the previous one in the end. Surviving Ludicolo4 Giga Drain and others wasn't relevant with this team, as Talonflame disposes of all threatening Grass-types before they can hit Gastrodon; as such, I moved 16 EVs from HP to Def for slightly better physical bulk and to minimize residual damage with 207 max HP (one point below a multiplier of 16, minimizing both Hail/Burn/Toxic). The drawback is that it now survives Ludicolo4 Giga Drain and others 1/16 of the time instead of every time (barring a crit); depending on your team, you might want to move 1-2 points of Def to SDef to survive those attacks or use the old spread. 164 HP is probably better as it minimizes residual damage with basically zero difference from 180HP, but it is a somewhat negligible difference.

Quiet 0 Speed is better than Modest 31 Speed most of the time; I was worried about Rhyperior and wanted to hit the same tier as Brave Aegislash when breeding the original Gastrodon, but this was not as useful as I thought it would be and Aegislash isn't used at all on this team, unlike the Triples squads it originally served on. Quiet loses out on very little outside TR and improves its performance by a good bit under it.





I don't intend to throw more runs at either mode with these teams, because I already have #1 in Rotations and #2 in Doubles, and am getting a bit sick of playing the same stuff over and over - as the inattentive misplays that I lose to allude to. Howewer, these are the final versions of the two teams as far as I'm concerned, so you should use these changes if you use Lucario/Greninja for Doubles V2 or Team Substitute, and I'll edit a link this post in the streak posts.

 

[iamfanboy]

Well, I just learned one more (stupid) thing about Rotations - Healing Wish does NOT work. I thought I was so damn clever, waiting until the last possible moment while Toxic'ed to bring back my Azumarill, when "WTF Healing Wish failed?!?!?"

At least I know my anti-anger pills are working, because I didn't chuck the DS, or even have an urge to.

Does Healing Wish work in Triples? I don't see why it wouldn't, but then, I don't see why it wouldn't've in Rotations either...

God, what a weird bastard of a format.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Well, I just learned one more (stupid) thing about Rotations - Healing Wish does NOT work. I thought I was so damn clever, waiting until the last possible moment while Toxic'ed to bring back my Azumarill, when "WTF Healing Wish failed?!?!?"

At least I know my anti-anger pills are working, because I didn't chuck the DS, or even have an urge to.

Does Healing Wish work in Triples? I don't see why it wouldn't, but then, I don't see why it wouldn't've in Rotations either...

God, what a weird bastard of a format.

Were all four of your Pokemon still alive when you tried to use Healing Wish? Healing Wish works by fainting your active Pokemon to heal a non-active Pokemon. It does this because its switch-in mechanic is the same as U-Turns: it selects a non-active Pokemon to send out. The switch-in mechanic just so happens to be what determines the target for the healing: Healing Wish can't target a Pokemon on the field, just like U-Turn won't let you switch one of your other active Pokemon into the U-Turn user's spot. If you didn't have a "back up," I wouldn't have expected Healing Wish to work.

In Triples, Healing Wish will work to heal a back-up Pokemon, but will not heal one of your three active Pokemon, for the same reason. So if you have three or fewer Pokemon left, it will fail.

 

[iamfanboy]

Were all four of your Pokemon still alive when you tried to use Healing Wish? Healing Wish works by fainting your active Pokemon to heal a non-active Pokemon. It does this because its switch-in mechanic is the same as U-Turns: it selects a non-active Pokemon to send out. The switch-in mechanic just so happens to be what determines the target for the healing: Healing Wish can't target a Pokemon on the field, just like U-Turn won't let you switch one of your other active Pokemon into the U-Turn user's spot. If you didn't have a "back up," I wouldn't have expected Healing Wish to work.

I'm starting to get the distinct impression that I stink at actual battling - for some reason, I thought that Healing Wish healed FAINTED Pokemon, not still-living ones. Who knows where I got THAT idea from.

 

[taylorswift4life]

Just saw this thread and since my super singles streak just ended due to, incredibly inattentive playing. If the first page is still accurate then I've made the list, I think. Here's my team:
Typical Super singles Durant Team tho. Got to 283 before losing.

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Truant
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Entrainment
-Thunder Wave
-Iron Head
-Toxic

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate-->Aerilate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Protect
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Return

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 spdef
-Scald
-Calm Mind
-Substitute
-Rest

Comments: The team functions alright, although I already knew there were pretty terrible flaws. Lead ghosts, protect thundurus, curse regirock, sash anything were among them. Mega Salamence is a cool sweeper ofc, but not really optimal as his bulk is so-so. I was tempted to run a max HP/max spdef one to tank special hits if necessary since i'd be boosting my attack and speed anyway, but I didn't feel like re-EVing mence. In all honesty, Suicune really deserves MVP since it has saved me when I make mistakes--which happened a lot. The Durant EVs were mainly because I found Durant's Attack output to be pretty lack luster without hustle. I never really ohko'd anything. However, Durant did have reasonable physical bulk, meaning that I could entrain something, switch to mence, and save durant for later if mence went down. Thunder Wave was also good for helping me with fast lead ghosts, letting me switch into suicune, outspeed them and win.

Improvements? Swapping out Mega Salamence to a sweeper who can deal with sash or has the bulk to live a sash super effective move. Possibly Dragonite. Or swapping out the sweeper pair for something that can handle lead ghosts and sashers. However, I'll miss Suicune. I've been thinking of using a cloyster + Mega Sableye. Sableye definitely deals with ghosts. Or at least I think it does. It might not. In that case, Mega Tyranitar.

It was definitely fun. Every time I saw first turn protect, I nearly crapped my pants, but usually i'd get lucky enough and pull it off.
Video Proof: L4RG-WWWW-WWX3-VX7S

 

[VaporeonIce]

Just saw this thread and since my super singles streak just ended due to, incredibly inattentive playing. If the first page is still accurate then I've made the list, I think. Here's my team:
Typical Super singles Durant Team tho. Got to 283 before losing.

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Truant
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Entrainment
-Thunder Wave
-Iron Head
-Toxic

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate-->Aerilate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Protect
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Return

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 spdef
-Scald
-Calm Mind
-Substitute
-Rest

Comments: The team functions alright, although I already knew there were pretty terrible flaws. Lead ghosts, protect thundurus, curse regirock, sash anything were among them. Mega Salamence is a cool sweeper ofc, but not really optimal as his bulk is so-so. I was tempted to run a max HP/max spdef one to tank special hits if necessary since i'd be boosting my attack and speed anyway, but I didn't feel like re-EVing mence. In all honesty, Suicune really deserves MVP since it has saved me when I make mistakes--which happened a lot. The Durant EVs were mainly because I found Durant's Attack output to be pretty lack luster without hustle. I never really ohko'd anything. However, Durant did have reasonable physical bulk, meaning that I could entrain something, switch to mence, and save durant for later if mence went down. Thunder Wave was also good for helping me with fast lead ghosts, letting me switch into suicune, outspeed them and win.

Improvements? Swapping out Mega Salamence to a sweeper who can deal with sash or has the bulk to live a sash super effective move. Possibly Dragonite. Or swapping out the sweeper pair for something that can handle lead ghosts and sashers. However, I'll miss Suicune. I've been thinking of using a cloyster + Mega Sableye. Sableye definitely deals with ghosts. Or at least I think it does. It might not. In that case, Mega Tyranitar.

It was definitely fun. Every time I saw first turn protect, I nearly crapped my pants, but usually i'd get lucky enough and pull it off.
Video Proof: L4RG-WWWW-WWX3-VX7S

Entrainment works on Ghost-types.

 

[Mr. Blinky]

Hello. I'm looking for a few ideas and some input on completing my Doubles team. I am extremely confident in my opening pair, and less so on their support. I've had a few streaks end in the 70/80 range, with my record at 91. Here is the core:

Greninja @ King's Rock
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Blizzard
-Surf
-Fling
-Mat Block

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Atk
-Blizzard
-Ice Shard
-Energy Ball
-Protect

Most of the time I open with Mat Block and Blizzard. Abomasnow's Blizzard hits like a truck and usually weakens at least 1 opponent low enough so that Greninja can pick it off with Blizzard or Surf on the following turn. King's Rock is great not only for Fling to create a free turn, but also for minor flinch chances from the 2 spread moves. The core of Ice/Water/Grass attacks can handle almost every opponent, with a few exceptions. This pair will often (~60% of the time) sweep my opponent's entire team, so I've been trying to just make the supporting Pokemon tailored to patch their weaknesses. Opponents that give me the most trouble are Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Weavile, Magnezone, Glaceon, Scarfers, and the occasional Trick Room team (only if Abomasnow goes down)

I've tried many supporting partners for these 2 including: Talonflame, Landorus T, Goodra, Hitmontop, Rotom W, Azumarill, Cobalion, Mienshao, and Metagross. Talonflame seems to be the best at covering these weaknesses, but I find it very risky to switch it in withing sacrificing one of my leads. Landorus T is nice but I feel like he needs a Scarf to hit certain threats, but he also needs to be able to use Protect and change moves because I can't reliably switch him in and out. Having a Fake Out user seems great in my head but in practice it hasn't worked out too well. Tanky walls like Goodra and Rotom are very nice to help Greninja switch in and out, but sometimes they can't hold their own offensively.

So basically I feel like I've hit a mental block of sorts and I would love to hear some partner ideas to try. Currently on a 50 winstreak using TalonFlame and Landorus
and I would really like to ride this one as far as I can. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Over the past few months, I've been building up my winning streak in XY Super Singles. I've held off on buying ORAS so that I could focus on winning more in Singles, because I definitely felt like Whimsicott/Durant/Drapion could go further than they did. This time around, I'm 99.8% sure I'm not the first person to REACH this mark (and I believe Jumpman16 may have something big planned for us), but I'm at least the first person to post about it. So as my reward to myself for finishing my final exams, I'm posting an ongoing streak of 1500 wins in XY Super Singles. I'm pretty pleased to be the first to post 1500 wins, given my insane obsession with symmetry and the fact that I was the first to post 500 and 1000 wins in Singles. That said, I don't expect the trend to continue into 2000 wins :) The team (specifically, Durant) has gone through some modifications, some of which were during the streak itself. Here are the current sets:

Whimsicott (M) @ Focus Sash (Fluffy Bunny)
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid
EVs: 44 HP / 244 Def / 220 Speed
~ Taunt
~ Encore
~ Switcheroo
~ Memento

Durant (F) @ Choice Scarf (The Bug Life)
Ability: Truant
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 220 HP / 4 Atk / 108 Def / 84 SpDef / 92 Speed
~ Entrainment
~ Protect
~ X-Scissor
~ Aerial Ace

Drapion (M) @ Black Sludge (Plaguarism)
Ability: Battle Armor
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
~ Substitute
~ Protect
~ Acupressure
~ Knock Off

Team Plaguarism strikes again! Durant is the only one who has undergone any changes, since Whimsicott and Drapion do their jobs perfectly. It's amazing how much tweaking Durant can patch up holes in the team, though.

The factor motivating the change (from the old 172 HP/108 Def/228 Speed spread) was a battle (sometime after #1000 in this streak) in which Carbink 4 2HKO'd Durant with Power Gem (note: it usually didn't use Power Gem on the first turn; it seemed to select moves somewhat randomly) then Exploded unusually early against Drapion, leaving me to face off against Hawlucha 4. I managed to win thanks to some early evasion boosts (Flying Press missed a couple of times), but it left me well-aware that Durant should probably be EV'd to survive two Carbink Power Gems (since it's the second time that's happened).

I was looking for how to rearrange EVs, but I REALLY didn't want to take aware Durant's ability to survive Breloom 4's crit Focus Punch. Then I wondered: does Durant really need all that Speed? It never comes in against Manectric 4 while it's actually holding the Scarf (I always Switcheroo it away). Same with Terrakion 2. 92 Speed EVs lets it outspeed Scarfchomp by one point (who I could see myself needing to switch Durant in against, thanks to Worker Rasmus's high number of Exploders). I could dip lower, but I like this spread, particularly because it allows me to use Taunt against lead Entei, Memento if they use Flame Charge, and still outspeed them.

I put 84 EVs into SpDef to allow Durant to always survive two non-crit Carbink Power Gems (I can Switcheroo its Score Lens to reduce the crit chance). Then I dumped the rest into Defense (except for the lonely 4 EVs, which went into Attack) for a spreak of 172 HP/4 Atk/156 Def/84 SpDef/92 Speed. I eventually decided that I should check to see if that's actually the most efficient spread. In pretty much all situations, shifting around the EVs and putting them in HP instead of Defense didn't matter, except for this one:

252 Atk Blaziken Flame Charge vs. 220 HP / 108 Def Durant: 132-160 (81.9 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Blaziken 4's Flame Charge does not OHKO a full-health Durant without a crit. I had one battle against a Black Belt where lead Medicham 4 KO'd itself against Drapion (as it always does; unfortunately, there's no way to safely have it self-KO against Durant) and he switched in Blaziken 4. I knew that, if it had Speed Boost, I was screwed (fortunately, in this case, it didn't). If I switched in Whimsicott and it used Flame Charge, it would have +2 Speed, giving it enough to outspeed and KO Durant. Fortunately, it didn't have Speed Boost. I briefly considered 252 Speed on Durant to outspeed +2 Blaziken, but I knew it was better to keep the EVs that beat the threats I HAD encountered (e.g. lead Mienshao 4 using HJK on turn 1) than the ones I hadn't. But with this particular EV spread, I have a trick up my sleeve for that very situation:

Turn 1: Medicham uses Fake Out (it has always used Fake Out or Detect turn 1, but it uses Fake Out far more frequently)
Turn 2: Whimsicott uses Encore. If it didn't try to use Detect, switch to Durant, use Entrainment; if it did use Detect, Encore that, switch to Drapion, set up a Sub. Either way, Durant is at full health.

Set up as much as possible against Medicham (you can actually get several turns if you managed to hit it with Entrainment just by letting it hit Drapion's Subs with HJK). Then, when Blaziken comes in, this happens:

Switch to Whimsicott. If it chooses Flare Blitz, Whimsicott faints and Blaziken is at +1 Speed, meaning Durant outspeeds and hits it with Entrainment. If it uses Flame Charge, Whimsicott lives (barring a crit) and uses Encore. Now Blaziken is faster than Durant, but it's locked into a move that can't KO Durant without a crit, allowing my to use Entrainment most of the time. And while this situation involves relying on getting hit twice without any crits, I have to stress that this is a situation (opposing lead KOs itself early, then Speed Boost Blaziken comes in second) I've literally never encountered in over 3000 battles with this team. And the team can beat it the overwhelming majority of the time. That's pretty cool.

Obviously, this doesn't work against all early self-KO leads (most of them will do damage to Durant), but I believe Blaziken will use Flare Blitz far more frequently, particularly against Drapion. I'm somewhat worried about it coming in against Durant and picking Flame Charge (since it will KO AND boost its speed, assuming Durant has taken a bit of damage). But I'm keeping my strategy of trying to have Durant (or, preferably, Whimsicott) in against opposing leads when they KO themselves, simply because I feel that Emboar 4 is a bigger threat than Speed Boost Blaziken 4 (Emboar 4 kills me regardless of its ability if it comes out at wrong time, Blaziken 4 only kills me if it uses Flame Charge AND has Speed Boost).

So I've gotten a lot better at beating the (very low probability) threats that can cause problems for this team. Other than the "early Exploder + Speed Boost Blaziken/Sub user" threats I've identified before, here are other threats I've identified, but never experienced:

Flame Body second Pokemon + third Pokemon Terrakion, Cobalion, Scrafty, or Umbreon: In most battles, I can keep both of my leads alive, allowing me to switch out of a potential Flame Body Pokemon and use Entrainment on it. I can stall some of them (e.g. Magmortar, Heatran 2, Heatran 4) out of PP, letting them KO themselves with Struggle. I didn't list Virizion because I think Knock Off + Durant Aerial Ace should KO (it's very rare that Durant doesn't survive), and Terrakion will sometimes lose to two burned Knock Offs + Aerial Ace as well. But if Drapion gets burned, Scrafty or Umbreon will stall it out. The biggest Flame Body threat is Volcarona, because I can't switch out against it, even if my whole team is alive, unless Drapion has almost all of its PP left. That's because Volcarona can KO with Bug Buzz through Substitute (but has only tried to use Bug Buzz before running out of Heat Waves ONCE in the entire history of this team, which was battle #1175 that I lost), meaning I have to waste a ton of Protect PP just to stay safe. Talonflame gets special note, because I can scout its ability by waiting for it to use Brave Bird. If it's priority, it's Gale Wings, meaning no risk there.

Second or third Pokemon Cobalion 3 when Drapion is low on PP: I only need 15 Sub+Protect PP to stall out its Iron Heads, and I almost always have more than that. Still, it's a potential risk.

Lead Blaziken 1: This appears on two of out 100 trainers, each of whom have 72 (18*4) sets, making it a 1 in 3600 chance. Still, I'm glad I've never faced it. I would be able to set up Entrainment on it just fine and set up some boosts, but unless I got early Defense boosts without Special Defense boosts (thus baiting it into using Flamethrower instead of HJK), I probably wouldn't be able to set up fully. It's not quite as bad as I thought it was (I can just let it keep breaking my Subs with HJK until I feel I have decent boosts), but it's not great, since I can still only get about 8 boosts max if it hits with HJK every turn)

Lead Speed Boost Yanmega: I immediately switch to Durant and use Entrainment. If it doesn't crit, Durant lives, Yanmega is baited into attacking again, and it gets hit by Entrainment. If it does crit, I switch back to Whimsicott, use Entrainment, and set up Drapion against a -2 Yanmega. I've actually had Yanmega 4 crit Durant on the switch and still won this way (without too many problems), but it does pose a risk, particularly with Bug Buzz SpDef drops.

Lead Hippowdon 4/Umbreon 4 if I never get any crits: Once I'm down to about 10 Knock Off PP, I switch back to Durant and Protect stall them, then switch back to Drapion and set up again once they're out of attacking PP. They're more boring than threatening.

I don't even think about Quagsire 4 anymore. It almost never appears, it usually chooses the wrong moves and dies against Durant when it does appear, and at least Durant (and sometimes Durant AND Whimsicott) are still alive when it comes out, meaning I can easily set up against it by hitting it with Entrainment again. The main risk comes with an Unaware Quagsire 4 back-up following a Taunt lead, because Taunt leads waste all my Protect PP and prevent me from switching out and setting up again. But I pretty much never have to switch out of Unaware Quagsire anyway, because the AI makes dumb choices.

Anyway, I'm not exactly in a position to "race" against people if they do decide to destroy my streak. For all of its strengths, Team Plaguarism is still slow as hell. In a typical week, I'll win about 100 battles. Plus, I want to play Omega Ruby when I get it (I asked for it for Christmas), so I'll be playing that in my free time rather than continuing this streak. I do plan to keep playing XY Super Singles on commutes, which will maybe net me 10-12 battles a day on the weekdays. I'll also play it on the flight home, so I should accumulate wins quick (for this team) for a little while. Of course, "quickly" for this team is like, 200 wins a week, tops, compared to stuff like Jumpman's team, which can probably manage 1000 wins a week.

I hope people enjoyed this read (or parts of it, anyway). I feel very privileged to be a part of this community, and very lucky to have found a team that works so well. The Batle Maison thread (and Orange Islands in general) is a uniquely fun and awesome place on Smogon. Good luck, everyone! See you in Hoenn :)

Proof video: ZWSW-WWWW-WWWK-H744

Well, after a generation in slumber (eff you, Cobalion), Drapion has returned to its former glory. My Singles streaks with Whimsicott/Durant/Drapion (Team Plaguarism) is now at 2366 wins.
Here's the video: 4JAW-WWWW-WWX4-9GKB
It's classic: Pokemon Ranger Cerese leads with Meganium 4, meaning I can switch to Drapion for free on Toxic and set up without even using my other two Pokemon. She doesn't have Unaware Quagsire (not that it would have mattered if she did, since my other two team members were at full health), so it's a free win.

Just so that I actually contribute something besides a number in this post, here are a couple of other threats to my team I've identified:

Lead Zapdos 2: I use Taunt turn 1 and, if it hits, Switcheroo turn 2, Memento turn 3. If I miss on turn 1 and it uses Double Team, things get a lot riskier. I do need to face multiple misses to lose (the initial Taunt miss + Durant misses with Entrainment whenever it comes in) and I have SOME chance of stalling it out (especially if it doesn't use Heat Wave the first turn Drapion comes in), but my odds aren't great. I think I had Taunt miss once against it in my first run with the team, but Entrainment still hit. Fortunately, I don't face a lot of lead Zapdos 2 (knock on wood).

Lead Virizion 1: Taunt leads prevent me from having a guaranteed 21 Acupressures. I usually get 21 Acupressures anyway, because after I run out of Protect, I can keep spamming Acupressure while they miss or fail to break the Sub. Sacred Sword ruins this strategy. This wouldn't bother me so much if Terrakion and Cobalion weren't possible back-ups. Facing one of them without full Attack boosts is a huge problem. Fortunately, that's never happened; I haven't faced too many Virizion 1 either.

In roughly 4000 battles with this team, I'm pretty sure I STILL haven't faced a second Pokemon Flame Body + 3rd Pokemon Umbreon/Scrafty/Mandibuzz/Cobalion. I can only remember one battle with a second mon Heatran + third mon Cobalion, but no burn.

I'm not going to pretend I "beat Jumpman16" or anything because my streak is as long as his streak from Platinum (though targeting that streak was obviously what kept me motivated). The only person who actually knows how far he took his Platinum streak is him. What I will say is that I can understand why he stopped. The closer I've gotten to this goal, the more my motivation has dwindled. I'd been chasing benchmarks like 1500, Eppie's doubles record, R Inanimate's triples record, 2000...but now, the goals are all gone. The only one I could chase is turskain's insane Triples streak, but it would probably take me a year or so to get there. When I play, I often find myself longing for a bad match-up, or something to go wrong. I don't want to lose, I just want to see what would happen. And on rare occasions, those situations do come up, which is nifty. But once you know the ins and outs, this team is a machine, and it plays like one. I already know all the moves to make to maximize every's health while eliminating any chance of surprise hax. The streak is a testament to the power of this team; compared to the top Doubles and Triples streaks and Jumpman's Kangliscune team, I think the amount of legwork I had to put in for this team was pretty minimal. Even some of the theorymon I have done has mostly gone to waste; I'm pretty sure I haven't faced a (non-Forretress) Explosion lead + Sub back-up in the last 2366 battles.

I'll keep playing on commutes when I can't really focus enough for Omega Ruby, but I think the fire that lead me to push for big numbers with this team is gone. Kudos to Peterko for continuing to push his Platinum streak ahead when there was no one close to him; I think both Jumpman and I pushed our teams a lot farther than we would have otherwise because of that.

And, for your viewing pleasure(?), here was one of the actually interesting battles.

#2313: SQ6G-WWWW-WWX4-C9CE: Mienshao 4, Carbink 4, Scrafty 4. Three Pokemon my team has problems with. I KO Mienshao the usual way, but have to sacrifice Whimsicott to steal Carbink's Scope Lens (reducing the crit chance on Durant). Carbink Explodes REALLY early against Drapion, but fortunately, Scrafty doesn't Protect against Durant. Note that Scrafty Protected on the switch, and the AI doesn't seem to like to Protect twice in a row, even when the second one WOULD work because the first one failed. I think Drapion could have stalled out Scrafty's 20 attacking PP, but it was easier because I didn't have to.

Good luck, all!

 

[iamfanboy]

I've tried many supporting partners for these 2 including: Talonflame, Landorus T, Goodra, Hitmontop, Rotom W, Azumarill, Cobalion, Mienshao, and Metagross. Talonflame seems to be the best at covering these weaknesses, but I find it very risky to switch it in withing sacrificing one of my leads. Landorus T is nice but I feel like he needs a Scarf to hit certain threats, but he also needs to be able to use Protect and change moves because I can't reliably switch him in and out. Having a Fake Out user seems great in my head but in practice it hasn't worked out too well. Tanky walls like Goodra and Rotom are very nice to help Greninja switch in and out, but sometimes they can't hold their own offensively.

So basically I feel like I've hit a mental block of sorts and I would love to hear some partner ideas to try. Currently on a 50 winstreak using TalonFlame and Landorus
and I would really like to ride this one as far as I can. Any suggestions are welcome.

As much as I don't feel up to offering advice after my hax-filled loss in Triples earlier (Seriously, what hate-fueled RNG god lets Rock Slide hit all three of my Pokemon and flinch my Eruption AND Tailwind users? Then flinch my sure killer next turn? Goddamn Scarfed Charizard), what about a backup weather setter, or something you can switch into the place of Abomasnow in case of a predicted SFE attack you can't flinch your way out of with Fling? Azumarill resists pretty much everything Aboma's weak to and is a burly Pokemon in its own right - AV Azu is a beast, no two ways about it, and it would help out against specially defensive beasties that might tank your Blizzards. For the other slot... no idea. I like Poison Heal Gliscor as a final staller, and both the Lati twins are pretty solid CM users if you're in a clutch, but who knows for sure? Not me.

By the way, I think imma filch your team. I'm not happy with my current Doubles team, and it gives me good reason to breed up an Abomasnow.

 

[turskain]

Well, after a generation in slumber (eff you, Cobalion), Drapion has returned to its former glory. My Singles streaks with Whimsicott/Durant/Drapion (Team Plaguarism) is now at 2366 wins.
Here's the video: 4JAW-WWWW-WWX4-9GKB
It's classic: Pokemon Ranger Cerese leads with Meganium 4, meaning I can switch to Drapion for free on Toxic and set up without even using my other two Pokemon. She doesn't have Unaware Quagsire (not that it would have mattered if she did, since my other two team members were at full health), so it's a free win.

Just so that I actually contribute something besides a number in this post, here are a couple of other threats to my team I've identified:

Lead Zapdos 2: I use Taunt turn 1 and, if it hits, Switcheroo turn 2, Memento turn 3. If I miss on turn 1 and it uses Double Team, things get a lot riskier. I do need to face multiple misses to lose (the initial Taunt miss + Durant misses with Entrainment whenever it comes in) and I have SOME chance of stalling it out (especially if it doesn't use Heat Wave the first turn Drapion comes in), but my odds aren't great. I think I had Taunt miss once against it in my first run with the team, but Entrainment still hit. Fortunately, I don't face a lot of lead Zapdos 2 (knock on wood).

Lead Virizion 1: Taunt leads prevent me from having a guaranteed 21 Acupressures. I usually get 21 Acupressures anyway, because after I run out of Protect, I can keep spamming Acupressure while they miss or fail to break the Sub. Sacred Sword ruins this strategy. This wouldn't bother me so much if Terrakion and Cobalion weren't possible back-ups. Facing one of them without full Attack boosts is a huge problem. Fortunately, that's never happened; I haven't faced too many Virizion 1 either.

In roughly 4000 battles with this team, I'm pretty sure I STILL haven't faced a second Pokemon Flame Body + 3rd Pokemon Umbreon/Scrafty/Mandibuzz/Cobalion. I can only remember one battle with a second mon Heatran + third mon Cobalion, but no burn.

I'm not going to pretend I "beat Jumpman16" or anything because my streak is as long as his streak from Platinum (though targeting that streak was obviously what kept me motivated). The only person who actually knows how far he took his Platinum streak is him. What I will say is that I can understand why he stopped. The closer I've gotten to this goal, the more my motivation has dwindled. I'd been chasing benchmarks like 1500, Eppie's doubles record, R Inanimate's triples record, 2000...but now, the goals are all gone. The only one I could chase is turskain's insane Triples streak, but it would probably take me a year or so to get there. When I play, I often find myself longing for a bad match-up, or something to go wrong. I don't want to lose, I just want to see what would happen. And on rare occasions, those situations do come up, which is nifty. But once you know the ins and outs, this team is a machine, and it plays like one. I already know all the moves to make to maximize every's health while eliminating any chance of surprise hax. The streak is a testament to the power of this team; compared to the top Doubles and Triples streaks and Jumpman's Kangliscune team, I think the amount of legwork I had to put in for this team was pretty minimal. Even some of the theorymon I have done has mostly gone to waste; I'm pretty sure I haven't faced a (non-Forretress) Explosion lead + Sub back-up in the last 2366 battles.

I'll keep playing on commutes when I can't really focus enough for Omega Ruby, but I think the fire that lead me to push for big numbers with this team is gone. Kudos to Peterko for continuing to push his Platinum streak ahead when there was no one close to him; I think both Jumpman and I pushed our teams a lot farther than we would have otherwise because of that.

And, for your viewing pleasure(?), here was one of the actually interesting battles.

#2313: SQ6G-WWWW-WWX4-C9CE: Mienshao 4, Carbink 4, Scrafty 4. Three Pokemon my team has problems with. I KO Mienshao the usual way, but have to sacrifice Whimsicott to steal Carbink's Scope Lens (reducing the crit chance on Durant). Carbink Explodes REALLY early against Drapion, but fortunately, Scrafty doesn't Protect against Durant. Note that Scrafty Protected on the switch, and the AI doesn't seem to like to Protect twice in a row, even when the second one WOULD work because the first one failed. I think Drapion could have stalled out Scrafty's 20 attacking PP, but it was easier because I didn't have to.

Good luck, all!

Amazing work! Your legwork is definitely not minimal compared to other top streaks - 4000 battles with Durant/Whimsicott/Drapion has probably taken a good bit more real-time than my 5615 ongoing wins in Triples (which is sitting at around 280 hours assuming a rate of 20 battles per hour) and the consistency required to get 2000+ with Durant is no joke.

Losing the fire is something I can relate to; 1000, 2000 and later 3000 to one-up that were my main goals in Triples and there wasn't much motivation past that point, and the lengthy trip in alternate teams is similar to the "wanting to see something new but not wanting to lose" line of thought you mention. I usually play different modes when that happens - lack of motivation leads to sloppiness and the Maison will quickly take advantage of it, with #3186 coming up right after the 3000-mark for me - and a bunch of losses right after hitting a benchmark (#733, #529 twice, #1011... most of my streak losses had it as a factor, it seems).




I've edited some notes into the Greninja/Lucario V2 streak post. The "216-Pokémon list" isn't quite as applicable to Doubles as it is for Singles, but there's definitely value in making one.

 

[DoomOvDoom]

I was finally able to break my previous record in Doubles but I'm still pretty disappointed as I was hoping I could do better and I really like this team. 228 victories, hopefully I can break it some day.

I call this strategy the "Land and Sky Offense", as it focuses on spamming Earthquake and Aerilate Hyper Voice. All of the types that resist Flying are weak to Ground and two of the three types that resist Ground are weak to Flying, so they cover each others pretty well. Earthquake is physical, Hyper Voice is special, and they're both reliable and powerful spread moves, so the strategy is quite effective. This team also has the so called "fantasy core" (Steel/Dragon/Fairy), although that wasn't my intention originally. Anyway, here's the team:

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Drill Run

I didn't know I could love an Ability this much. I used to think that Sand Rush Excadrill is the shit, but I was wrong. Mold Breaker is THE shit. There's no better feeling in this world than the one you get after you OHKO a Gengar with Earthquake. It's literally better than sex. Other important targets include Eelektross and Latios, who are both 2HKO'd by Earthquake. The greatest thing is that the enemy AI does not understand Mold Breaker, so it keeps switching Pokemon like Mismagius into my Earthquakes, expecting the Pokemon to be immune to the hit. I've had very enjoyable matches against trainers that lead with Gengar AND Mismagius, as if their Levitates meant something. Excadrill is awesome, I love it.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate / Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

I know most people prefer physical Salamence, but I went for special here. Intimidate instantly cripples physical attackers and special moveset means that Salamence doesn't mind opposing Intimidate or burn. No strategy required here, just click Hyper Voice and watch as things die. Flamethrower is there for Steel-types, but I used it like five times during those 229 battles. Protect is necessary to safely get the Speed boost and beat things like Virizion 1 and 3, both of which outspeed Mence during the turn of Mega Evolution and deal nasty damage with Stone Edge. Protect also causes the AI to waste turns using Ice Beam, allowing my leads to safely defeat bulkier targets that fall to EQ + EQ + HV.

Jellicent @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain

Jellicent is purely a gluemon. This bulky offensive set may seem weird and shit, but it's perfect for this team. Jellicent effortlessly switches into Water-, Fire-, and Fighting-moves for Excadrill, Ice Beams for Salamence (thawing itself out with Scald), and Poison- and Steel-moves for Sylveon. The synergy that Jellicent has with this team is out of this world. It also handles bulky Water-types with Ice coverage, as those things threaten both of my leads. Assault Vest gives Jellicent massive special bulk and gives it the ability to survive a Shadow Ball from powerful Mons like Gengar and Chandelure.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I didn't really know what to have as my last Pokemon, so I went with Sylveon to fuck with specially defensive Dragons like Latias that would threaten Salamence. I've used Shadow Ball like once, Psyshock and HP Fire never. Specs Pixilate Hyper Voice is so obscenely powerful that Sylveon doesn't really need anything else. I've swept entire teams of legendaries with this thing. Sylveon is insane. And cute.

So, here's the loss: F7SW-WWWW-WWX4-YQN8

I had really bad luck in this match. The problem was Suicune 2 as a lead. I had six full mock matches against the team and I won five out of them, so victory definitely wasn't out of my reach. The thing that makes Suicune 2 so troubling is that it can target either Excadrill or Salamence and it seems to have no preference in this situation. Most of the time you can defeat a certain threat because you know what it's going to do, but that's not the case here. In addition to those six full matches I played several first rounds just to examine what the Suicune would do, and the choice between Hydro Pumping Excadrill and Ice Beaming Salamence seems to be pretty much 50/50. It's just coin flip. I was always able to win easily when I Protected against an Ice Beam, but losing Excadrill made thing considerably more difficult (just like in the real match), although I was able to win a couple of those matches too. Another problem was Registeel, which threatened Sylveon so I couldn't just switch to Jellicent and Sylveon at the beginning. Jellicent also had no real way of getting rid of Registeel, making everything more complicated. I think I could have still beaten the real match if it wasn't for that unlucky critical hit against Jellicent, as it can survive a Thunderbolt from Thundurus 2:

252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Jellicent: 146-174 (70.5 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Basically, it was the combination of bad matchup and bad luck that sealed my fate during that one time that it actually mattered.

 

[turskain]

I was finally able to break my previous record in Doubles but I'm still pretty disappointed as I was hoping I could do better and I really like this team. 228 victories, hopefully I can break it some day.

I call this strategy the "Land and Sky Offense", as it focuses on spamming Earthquake and Aerilate Hyper Voice. All of the types that resist Flying are weak to Ground and two of the three types that resist Ground are weak to Flying, so they cover each others pretty well. Earthquake is physical, Hyper Voice is special, and they're both reliable and powerful spread moves, so the strategy is quite effective. This team also has the so called "fantasy core" (Steel/Dragon/Fairy), although that wasn't my intention originally. Anyway, here's the team:

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Drill Run

I didn't know I could love an Ability this much. I used to think that Sand Rush Excadrill is the shit, but I was wrong. Mold Breaker is THE shit. There's no better feeling in this world than the one you get after you OHKO a Gengar with Earthquake. It's literally better than sex. Other important targets include Eelektross and Latios, who are both 2HKO'd by Earthquake. The greatest thing is that the enemy AI does not understand Mold Breaker, so it keeps switching Pokemon like Mismagius into my Earthquakes, expecting the Pokemon to be immune to the hit. I've had very enjoyable matches against trainers that lead with Gengar AND Mismagius, as if their Levitates meant something. Excadrill is awesome, I love it.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate / Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

I know most people prefer physical Salamence, but I went for special here. Intimidate instantly cripples physical attackers and special moveset means that Salamence doesn't mind opposing Intimidate or burn. No strategy required here, just click Hyper Voice and watch as things die. Flamethrower is there for Steel-types, but I used it like five times during those 229 battles. Protect is necessary to safely get the Speed boost and beat things like Virizion 1 and 3, both of which outspeed Mence during the turn of Mega Evolution and deal nasty damage with Stone Edge. Protect also causes the AI to waste turns using Ice Beam, allowing my leads to safely defeat bulkier targets that fall to EQ + EQ + HV.

Jellicent @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain

Jellicent is purely a gluemon. This bulky offensive set may seem weird and shit, but it's perfect for this team. Jellicent effortlessly switches into Water-, Fire-, and Fighting-moves for Excadrill, Ice Beams for Salamence (thawing itself out with Scald), and Poison- and Steel-moves for Sylveon. The synergy that Jellicent has with this team is out of this world. It also handles bulky Water-types with Ice coverage, as those things threaten both of my leads. Assault Vest gives Jellicent massive special bulk and gives it the ability to survive a Shadow Ball from powerful Mons like Gengar and Chandelure.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I didn't really know what to have as my last Pokemon, so I went with Sylveon to fuck with specially defensive Dragons like Latias that would threaten Salamence. I've used Shadow Ball like once, Psyshock and HP Fire never. Specs Pixilate Hyper Voice is so obscenely powerful that Sylveon doesn't really need anything else. I've swept entire teams of legendaries with this thing. Sylveon is insane. And cute.

So, here's the loss: F7SW-WWWW-WWX4-YQN8

I had really bad luck in this match. The problem was Suicune 2 as a lead. I had six full mock matches against the team and I won five out of them, so victory definitely wasn't out of my reach. The thing that makes Suicune 2 so troubling is that it can target either Excadrill or Salamence and it seems to have no preference in this situation. Most of the time you can defeat a certain threat because you know what it's going to do, but that's not the case here. In addition to those six full matches I played several first rounds just to examine what the Suicune would do, and the choice between Hydro Pumping Excadrill and Ice Beaming Salamence seems to be pretty much 50/50. It's just coin flip. I was always able to win easily when I Protected against an Ice Beam, but losing Excadrill made thing considerably more difficult (just like in the real match), although I was able to win a couple of those matches too. Another problem was Registeel, which threatened Sylveon so I couldn't just switch to Jellicent and Sylveon at the beginning. Jellicent also had no real way of getting rid of Registeel, making everything more complicated. I think I could have still beaten the real match if it wasn't for that unlucky critical hit against Jellicent, as it can survive a Thunderbolt from Thundurus 2:

252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Jellicent: 146-174 (70.5 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Basically, it was the combination of bad matchup and bad luck that sealed my fate during that one time that it actually mattered.

I like it.

4 Speed EVs on Jellicient would allow it to outspeed the 80 Speed tier and avoid ties:

80 - Abomasnow (1,2), Empoleon (1,2,4), Lapras (2,3,4), Magnezone (1,3,4), Swampert (2,3,4), ALL Sylveon, Wailord (3,4), ALL Weezing, ALL Whiscash

Putting 4 EVs in SDef would result in an even number, giving an extra point from Assault Vest. A physically focused spread could also be a consideration. Movepool-wise, Ice Beam would give better coverage than Dazzling Gleam, which is redundant with Sylveon on the team.

252 HP and no Speed on Sylveon looks questionable - maxing Speed won't make it a speed demon, but it would be a lot less slow with 112 Speed:

111 - Clawitzer 4
110 - Lilligant (2,3), Porygon-Z 3, Rampardos 2, Roserade (1,4)
108 - ALL Excadrill, Regigigas 2 after Slow Start
106 - Armaldo 2, Golem 3, Marowak (3,4)
105 - Articuno (1,2), Cresselia (1,2,3), Kingdra 2, Nidoking 1, Pinsir 3, Suicune (1,2,3)
104 - Gourgeist (1,3,4)
103 - Magmortar 1, Darmanitan 3
102 - Tangrowth 2, Vileplume (1,4)
101 - Gyarados 4, Milotic (1,3,4)
100 - Altaria (1,4), Braviary 1, Chandelure (3,4), Dragonite (1,3), Drifblim 1, Gallade 3, ALL Goodra, Mamoswine (3,4), Mandibuzz (3,4), ALL Meganium, Regice 2, Shiftry (3,4), Togekiss 1, Venusaur (1,4)
99 - Poliwrath 2, ALL Vanilluxe
98 - Blastoise (3,4), Feraligatr (1,3)
97 - Golem 2, Granbull (3,4), Heatran (1,2,3)
96 - Exeggutor 1, Nidoqueen (2,3,4)
95 - Absol (1,2), ALL Claydol, Florges (3,4), Gothitelle 1
94 - Seismitoad 1, Heracross 1, Nidoking 2
93 - Skuntank 4
92 - Slurpuff (1,3), Rhyperior 2
91 - Tyrantrum (2,3)
90 - Bisharp (1,2,4), Breloom 4, Dewgong (1,3,4), Honchkrow (3,4), Ludicolo (1,2,3), ALL Luxray, Mamoswine 2, Metagross (3,4), Milotic 2, Politoed (3,4), Poliwrath (1,3,4), ALL Porygon2, Samurott (1,3,4), Skarmory 4, Togekiss 2, Venusaur 2
88 - Barbaracle (2,3,4), Blastoise (1,2), Exploud (1,2,3), Gogoat 1
87 - Lanturn (2,3,4)
86 - Nidoqueen 1, Mr. Mime 3
85 - Emboar (1,3), Flareon (1,2,4), Florges (1,2), ALL Glaceon, Gothitelle (2,3,4), Scizor (2,4), ALL Umbreon, Vaporeon (2,3,4), ALL Walrein

Additionally, max Speed Adamant Excadrill hits 210 Speed with Scarf - it could be cut to 135 Speed (212 EVs) to hit 202 Speed with Scarf without losing out on anything.

I like the sound of Excadrill/Salamence/Jellicent. Sylveon I'm less convinced of, but I've no idea what to use in its place, either - maybe Togekiss, Zapdos, Thundurus or Talonflame?