CAP 20 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[Jukain]

Name: Momentum Stall
General Description: A Pokemon whose purpose is to wall a portion of the metagame while still being able to maintain momentum.
Justification: At the moment, there are three broad categories that teams can be classified into: Hyper Offense, Balanced, and Stall. Middle ground groups can be created between each of these groups such as Bulky Offense (Balanced + Hyper Offense) which contains Pokemon which can tank hits but still do not give up momentum and Semi-Stall (Balanced + Stall) which thrives off of Pokemon which can stall combined with those which can deal heavy damage. However, a style that is heavily underrepresented in OU exists as the middle ground between Stall and Hyper Offense called Momentum Stall (?). A team whose win condition is to whittle the opponent's team while still being able to maintain momentum that most stall teams fail to do. This Pokemon is meant to be the face of this almost unrepresented playstyle almost in the way that Mega Sableye is the face of stall and Mega Lopunny is the face of Hyper Offense.
Questions To Be Answered:
-Since this is meant to be a promotion of a type of playstyle, what Pokemon would make good teammates to make this a viable archetype?
- The concept of momentum has been discussed previously with Tomohawk, however, the product tended to ally itself with balanced teams. How does the introduction of the stall element change the ways that this Pokemon will look for momentum?
- Why is the momentum stall archetype not seen in the OU metagame? Is it due to its lack of viability, its lack of teammates, or just lack of knowledge of it?
- Since this is a relatively unknown archetype, how will the introduction of a Momentum Stall into the metagame affect the usage of other archetypes?
- With this Pokemon attempting to be the face of this new archetype, will CAP 20 be too good on its own and end up fitting on other playstyles better? A similar question, what dictates a Pokemon's optimal team archetype?
- Is one Pokemon enough to revitalize a lost archetype?
Explanation: I don't want this project to end up as Momentum 2.0 in the context of the ORAS metagame; this concept is meant to be a promotion of the Momentum Stall playstyle. Momentum Stall makes an interesting concept due to its underrepresentation and its variance from the other team archetypes. The concept of Momentum Stall has been discussed and even conceptualized in previous CAP projects, however, I believe that this gen with such a blurred line between the three archetypes due to the wide variety of viable Polemon makes this metagame the best to promote this playstyle.

feedback welcome!

I apologize ahead of time if I'm totally misinterpreting what you mean by 'Momentum Stall', but I don't think this is a very good idea. Stall carries momentum via hazard pressure and other certain Pokemon, like bulky setup sweepers (CM Mega Sableye, CM Mega Slowbro, CM Clefable, SD Gliscor...just some examples), though I think what you're referring to is not that but more like the typical 'safe' balanced teams that rely on a combination of defensive pivots (like Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Slowbro, Ferrothorn, and Heatran), potential hazard pressure, revenge killing, and a certain degree of offensive pressure to succeed. You can't really run a more defensive team (thus 'Momentum Stall') out of these types of defensive pivots alone because you don't have the defensive presence required to function over the long-term and deal with threats effectively, especially considering that this type of build would be slower simply due to the type of Pokemon it would employ. 'Momentum Stall' is an inherently flawed idea for teambuilding and as a result doesn't really teach us anything about the metagame. I'd envision that this project would end up as some sort of bulky pivot like the Pokemon I talked about, likely with access to U-turn/Volt Switch, good bulk, and high defensive/momentum utility on the whole. All you'd really do is create a more effective version of Pokemon like Rotom-W, Landorus-T, etc which is heavily explored in the current metagame. The only other thing I can think of that you might mean by 'Momentum Stall' is the sort of balanced build that some players are starting to employ which involves Mega Sableye, entry hazard users, and a more offensive overall build involving Pokemon like Scarftar, Talonflame, Latios, and Keldeo. I think the 'best Pokemon' for this type of team already exists and there's not really much we can learn from that, either. And the last problem: this concept is vague and extremely open-ended. While that could potentially be viewed as a good thing in some situations, in this case it means that the concept provides little real direction or guidance for a project.

 

[Qwilphish]

Thanks for the feedback, glad to be receiving more detailed responses than others even if they are in opposition to it!

There has been a lot of reference to the bulky pivoters, Rotom-W and Lando-T, and those two are actually where this concept was inspired by. These two Pokemon however are almost never seen on archetypal Stall teams because although they are bulky due to their abilities / typings, there stats and movepool do not allot themselves to the stall archetype (i.e. Mediocre Base Defensive Stats, Lack of Reliable Recovery, No Access to Team Support outside of Status / Hazards) and are seen nearly exclusively on balanced teams (not when Lando-T is scarfed of course). That is where I wondered what would happen if these two Pokemon leant themselves more towards a Stall Team whether it be through a lower speed / offensive presence, higher bulk, better team support options, etc.

I do agree that the goal of making this type of "balanced" (not Balanced as in the team structure, but balanced as in the blend of the momentum grabbing aspect of Hyper Offense with the defensive nature of Stall) team a popular team archetype is nearly impossible and I will tone down that part in my initial post, however that does not mean that the concept behind this team structure is impossible. I guess I should use this post to make my interpretation of "Momentum Stall" (the more I read / write this, the more I cringe). I see Momentum Stall as a Stall-team first and foremost. What differentiates itself from typical Stall is that it utilizes moves which gain momentum (this is my main grief with my concept: It's reliance on U-Turn, Volt Switch, and/or Baton Pass) in order to apply Defensive pressure on the opponent in a similar fashion to the way that Volt-Turn teams operate with offensive checks being replaced with defensive counters which will force the opponent to take extra hazard / chip damage as they make their next move. I do not see this hypothetical type of team as inherently flawed as ORAS has proved that Stall is still alive and the addition of momentum seems to be a plus only. The main obstacle at the moment is the lack of Pokemon which can abuse this type of strategy. Pokemon such as Celebi and Zapdos are examples of Pokemon which show how Momentum Stall should operate with their ability to pivot as well as a strong defensive presence (although Zapdos has fallen out of favor with the decline of M-Pinsir it is still an example of a "Stall" Pokemon with pivot capabilities) however they alone are not able to counter much of the metagame.

Hopefully that explanation makes sense and that it clears up key questions that the previous posts mentioned. To the response that this Pokemon will be overpowered, I heartily disagree. Even with the example of Volt Switch Cyclohm, I don't see the where the OP sentiment is coming through. Cyclohm is very adept at walling several Pokemon, however the difference between Cyclohm and what will likely come of this Pokemon is that Cyclohm has a very good offensive presence with a good 112 SpA and great Dual STABs, both qualities Pokemon typically found on Stall don't have / have the moveslots to abuse.

tl;dr Momentum Stall does not rely on offensive presence to abuse its momentum abilities rather it focuses on the albeit weaker defensive presence to stall the opponent.
This is not a bulky attacker/pivoter like Lando-T and Rotom-W. It is a stall Pokemon which has the ability to pivot.

I know this post sounds defensive however I'm glad that I received this feedback as it allowed for me to clear up my concept even if it was a little bit. Please respond once again with rebuttals if I got anything wrong :]

 

[Valmanway]

Name- Ha! You Better Have Burn Heal!

Description- This CAP is designed for the specific purpose of protecting the team from burns, meaning Scald, Lava Plume, and Will-O-Wisp will no longer be significant threats to your physical attackers.

Justification - Let's be honest, burn is everywhere. We see Lava Plume from Heatran, Scald from Keldeo, Slowbro, Suicune, Defensive Starmie, and Manaphy, and Will-O-Wisp from Mega Chariazrd X, Mega Sableye, Mega Gardevoir, Gengar, Talonflame, Rotom-W, and Mew. You know what's crazy about burns? Only Fire-types are 100% immune to them, and for the most part, Fire-types are mainly offensive. What if we make a Pokemon that's designed to handle burns, be they from Will-O-Wisp or Scald, and what would happen to the metagame if this were made? This CAP idea will answer these burning questions.

Questions To Be Answered-

• How relevant are burns in the OU metagame?
• How much do Pokemon truly rely on burning their opponent's teams to succeed?
• Is the burn condition more of a centralizing presence in OU than we think?
• Will this CAP be enough to counteract burn spreaders?
• How will teams try to counteract this CAP?
• Will physical attackers become a little more or a lot more viable with this CAP?

Explanation- Stop me if you've heard this one before. You have a Mega Venusaur and a Lucario, and your opponent has a Keldeo and a Ferrothorn. Your Lucario just finished off their Ferrothorn, and then they switch in their Keldeo. You decide to switch into Mega Venusaur since it can take any of Keldeo's attacks, right? But suddenly, Keldeo fires off Scald! You cross your fingers, praying to Arceus and above that it doesn't burn, but as fate would have it, you now have a burned Mega Venusaur, and now it'll have to deal with that residual damage for possibly the rest of the entire match. Don't you just hate those stories? Me too. This CAP will hopefully put an end to all of those sad tales.

Basically, what this CAP idea aims to do is make it so teams will have a more direct answer to burns. Sure, Fire-types are immune to burns, but the only relevant defensive Fire-types are Heatran, which is weak to Scald, and Mega Charizard X, who is weak to Stealth Rock and still loses a good chunk of its health from Scalds. Scald and Lava Plume are also a problem in the sense that they're luck-based attacks, so even though there are Pokemon that can avoid a 2HKO from Keldeo's Scald, a random burn can be all it takes to bump said Pokemon into 2HKO range. What would normally be a great switch-in to the likes of Keldeo and Mega Slowbro run the higher-than-you-would-think risk of getting burned and wind up being crippled, whether it's by the residual damage or the Attack dropping effect. This random chance can make facing users of Scald and Lava Plume very annoying, and even though we're all used to leaving things up to chance with accuracy and such, there's a fine line between missing an attack and suddenly getting burned. With this CAP, those days of gambling against a random burn will be a thing of the past. Will-O-Wisp is also a commonplace status move, which can make even the strongest of physical attackers into pushovers and can break down walls quicker than you can keep up with. With very few immunities to burn, teams often have to play around burn spreaders in an annoying manner, and there's usually at least one burned Pokemon when facing them. If believe that this CAP will make burns much easier to play around, and may even make this metagame a healthier one.

 

[Ignus]

Name: Knock Off? Knock it off.

Description: A pokemon that not only successfully absorbs the move knock off from a variety of threats, but that uses the opportunity to steal that momentum from the opponent.

Justification: Knock Off. It's massive buff is one of the largest changes between gen 5 and gen 6 - it combined with the buffs to dark type's coverage created the monsters we fear known as bisharp, landorus-t, azumarill, and every other spammer of the damn move in the game. Fortunately, the same generation came with the introduction of mega-evolution: the only 'counter' to the otherwise unstoppable dark earthquake. Unfortunately, a team is limited to a single mega-evolution. But what if I want to use an offensive terror like Mega Latios or Mega Alakazam? Who's going to stop that stupid move now?
Enter CAP 20. The stage is set for the greatest knock off counter the world has ever seen. The best part? It doesn't take up your mega-slot. This introduces opportunities for some of the frailer Megas to get their chance in the limelight - theoretically opening up more teambuilding options in other slots as well.

Questions to be Answered:

• How important is Knock Off in the Metagame as of now?
• What benefit, if any, does an appearance of a "True Knock Off counter" contribute to the usage of Mega Evolutions weak to the move?
• What effect, if any, does a Knock Off counter have on the users of the move?
• What is the most effective way to handle the loss of an item? How does the lack of an item effect the choices you can make within a battle?
• What strengths and weaknesses do the vast majority of knock off users share?

Explanation:
The concept itself is relatively straightforward. Knock off is dumb. I don't like dumb things. Lets make our opponent sad for using dumb things. Hopefully, if this concept is executed correctly, we may see what could be considered one of the defining traits of the metagame make a visible shift at an underlying level, effecting everything from usage to move distribution.
As I mentioned earlier, the biggest reason this concept is strong is because it opens up options for the mega slot. Without its existence, potentially every Mega Evolution that's weak to dark moves or too frail to take the hit could see a bump in their popularity. Knock off is one of the best distributed dark type VGMs in the game, but honestly lacks power after the first hit. If there was a reliable, strong, manly counter out there, it's usage could potentially drop quite a bit. Not only that, but Knock Off is an extremely unique, and relevant, mechanic within the game. Exploring how to handle it could honestly teach us a load about the strengths and weaknesses of the pokemon who currently spam it, as well as the strengths and weaknesses of the move itself.
In addition, the flexible nature of the concept allows us to approach it from a variety of directions. Do we want to abuse abilities like justified or unburden, or just be able to consistently tank and punish the move with an ability like flame body? Does it make sense to try and make a pokemon on the bulkier end of the spectrum despite the lack of an item like leftovers? While dark resistance will obviously be a big part of typing, does it make sense to take a fairy or fighting type when pokemon like Bisharp or Azumarill have STAB Super Effective moves against those types?
Such questions lead to some damn good debates, and hopefully push out some solid discussion in the upcoming steps.

 

[ginganinja]

The stage is set for the greatest knock off counter the world has ever seen. The best part? It doesn't take up your mega-slot.

O.k, neat idea. That said, we could prolly make something generic with 80/80/80 defences, resistances / immunity to Knock Off, and then just give it Sticky Hold and call it a day. The concept doesn't really trigger much _discussion_ because the ways to deal with Knock Off are either already in place, or pretty niche, running with this concept risks pigeon holing us into a locked ability way before we even start.

 

[En Passant]

Name- Ha! You Better Have Burn Heal!
stuff that's way too long to quote

I don't like this idea because it's too easy to do and has somewhat already been done in OU. A Water-type with Water Veil (which, in fact, is every Pokemon with Water Veil, but they all have other problems that make them unviable) and a Fire-type with Water Absorb/Dry Skin/Storm Drain are simple solutions due to being immune to burns and resisting all common moves that can burn, as long as we give them decent bulk. Additionally, we already have Guts users in AV Conkeldurr and non-Mega Heracross (it's ranked C), which benefit from burns; clerics like Chansey and Clefable (which already dgaf about burns if it has Magic Guard) to cure them and heal off the damage; and, in the distant future, Volcanion, which matches simple solution #2. Similarly to ginga's objection to the Knock Off idea, it doesn't look like we'd generate any good discussion from it.

 

[Burt Racecar]

Qwilphish's Momentum Stall
I'm really confused, even after reading both the concept and your response to feedback. I see no real difference between this concept and any other momentum/pivot concept except with the explicit idea that this should be more equipped for stall teams.

Bramblestein's Offense is the Best Defense
Splitting abilities into being offensive and defensive can be shaky; especially for what this concept is calling for. Mega-Sceptile's Lightning Rod is both offensive and defensive and these are the kinds of abilities we would be limited to. There's no way to utilise Moxie or Guts in a defensive capacity, unless we loop back to the concept title of being offensive so as not to be defensive.
I don't think Nidoqueen is a great example to use, it doesn't really use Sheer Force defensively, it's just a pokemon with that ability that can be either defensive or offensive. Similarly (Mega) Scizor has Technician but the option to be defensive or offensive.

heartofgold's Lord of the Crossing
If I recall correctly this was a potential concept for CAP19, which should show the concept has merit.

Valmanway's Ha! You Better Have Burn Heal!
I don't think I have much to add to what Dry Paratrooper already said about this concept. Scald is a really spammable move and gets on everybody's nerves, that much is certain. Especially since the viability of previous OU water absorbers has dropped this Gen (Vaporeon and Jellicent). Perhaps they make it into some teams because of this niche. I think it would be difficult to insulate an entire team against burns in a manner different from what these two outclassed mons could if they wanted do. Plus AV guts Conk already exists.

Ignus' Knock Off? Knock it off.
I like this concept since Knock Off got a massive boost this gen and the move is pretty much a staple on most teams. I disagree with Ginga about just looking at it in ways to prevent Knock Off from affecting CAP. To me this concept is about turning the loss of an item into an advantage (actually I see parallels between this and ways to approach Cretacerus' NFE concept). There are a small amount of 'mons that currently turn consuming an item into an optimal state of play through their ability and/or moves, think unburden Hawlucha.
So this concept should be like that, except geared around losing an item via Knock Off instead of consuming it. The hard part is making it a balancing act, because ideally this pokemon should be good with their item and equally as good without it.
I will admit that there are a limited amount of moves and abilities that can abuse the loss of item through Knock Off. I have a rather niche idea of how this could work but I don't think this is the time nor place.

 

[Yuelia]

[This is still a work in progress; any feedback on this idea is greatly appreciated!]

Name: Element of Surprise

General Description: A Pokemon that, while it has one or two "standard" sets, can also utilize the element of surprise to its advantage to catch opponents off-guard.

Justification: The idea of the "element of surprise" is one that has been discussed for pretty much the entire history of competitive Pokemon, but I don't think it's ever been properly defined. Is it an unusual team build? An unusual set? An unusual ability? Is it worth deviating from the standard set? Can it become the standard set? I think this will allow us to learn a lot about why, and how, surprises can be effective in ORAS OU - and really, any other meta down the line.

Questions to be Answered:

• What exactly is the element of surprise?
• What, precisely, is the difference between it, a lure, and a gimmick?
• Since we're custom-building this mon, is it possible for us to catch other players (who also contributed to the process) off-guard, while still keeping it balanced?
• In the era of Mega Evolutions, can we make a standard set that stands out enough for the surprise to actually be effective?
• Is utilizing the element of surprise more effective than just sticking to the standard? Which is actually more consistent?
• At what point does a surprise become a standard?

Explanation: I can see a ton of ways we can go about this concept - a wide movepool, a typing that can be used either offensively or defensively, two or even three viable abilities - I'm thinking something like UU Krookodile here, which can be used as a defensive Stealth Rocker with Intimidate or a Scarf sweeper with Moxie, two vastly different sets that are both usable in their own way. While it might be tricky to draw the line between something versatile like this and something broken, given how underwhelming the last two CAPs were, that may not even be such a bad thing. It's a challenge, to be sure, but one I think we as a community can meet.

 

[CerberusSONE]

Concept Name: All Animals Are Equal, But Some More Than Others
General Description:
A Pokémon that constantly decentralizes the metagame's top players, while not becoming the most centralizing player itself.

Justification: Each new generation (or game) brings us a slew of new competitors in the OU meta. For example, Greninja, Aegislash, and the many Megas, were introduced in the beginning of Generation 6.
Aegislash witnessed a huge amount of its use in the OU meta, having access to priority Shadow Sneak, a powerful Shadow Ball attack, and a signature move that punished contact attackers. Because of its incredible usage and functions, it was suspected and then banned.
Greninja had a different case, yet the ban hammer fell upon it.
What was it about these two that got them banned? Was it necessarily them being overpowered?
The fact that these two shaped the metagame around them was the behind the reason they got banned.
The Pokémon that could effectively counter them were either few, or had flaws that essentially made them bait to the opponents.
In this Project, we should aim at exploring what competitors in the new post-Greninja OU metagame have potential to be abused and it what way. We should include playstyles and cores that dominate the current metagame, as well as those that are viable but do not see much use. Observing individual Pokémon is an important part of the assessment in the way that we would learn how certain Pokémon look more viable that others (stats, typing, item usage).
The resulting goal should be to create a Pokémon that is able to take on multiple opponents, yet have an equal fallacy to be checked by them. This way the metagame has no real top player, or at least one that stays for a time.

Questions to be Answered:

• Observe the current top Pokémon (on the Usage stats and the OU viability thread). What makes them top threats? What are their strengths and weaknesses?
• We know that a Pokémon's strengths can lower another Pokémon's usage, whether it be outclassing it (Ferrothorn being an overall better hazard lead over Skarmory) or being an effective counter to it. Can a Pokémon's weak points lower the usage of other Pokémon and it what way is it so?
• Given that our Project should not become a top player, how powerful should it be, considering stats, type combos, and current playstyles?
• How in the world do you constantly replace top players in the OU metagame? Does this constant change require the use of cores rather than a single Pokémon?
• How do we keep this Pokémon from becoming the most centralizing player?
• Is there a single role that can take on multiple Pokémon? Does a Pokémon require multiple roles to be viable?
• Following up on the previous question, in what ways does a Pokémon with a single role be come overpowered? With multiple roles?
• What playstyles does a Pokémon need to be suited for to be viable?
• How expansive does a movepool need to be for a Pokémon to be overpowered?
• What kind of OU stat spreads make a Pokémon viable? Abused?
• If we do not want the Pokémon to be a gimmick in the OU competition, what kinds of underrated playstyles should be utilized and what kinds shouldn't?

Explanation:
I've been thinking of making a mon that can take on multiple threats. My problem with bringing up such a cocept was that it was boring and didn't seem to require much thought.
It would be simple to make a Pokémon that can serve as effective checks and counters to Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, and Landorus-T. I don't think a Pokémon like that would be an interesting addition to the metagame.
However, the idea of making a Pokémon that doesn't let a top player sit on its throne for long had me analyzing a lot of current playstyles and competitors in the meta.
Should we frame our Project to create a glass cannon that dishes out heavy hits while not being able to take a hit?
Should our Project be geared towards making a bulky offensive player that has few yet exploitable weaknesses?
Including the discussion of the post-Greninja meta (new threats that can be abused, and playstyles that have fallen in usage), I'd like to see discussion on individual roles in teams, as well as core discussion.
Once we get to the playtest, we would be experimenting a lot with this Pokémon and its role as the dethroner of powerful mons in OU.

I'd just like some comments and critique on this concept. It's been rolling around in my head since CAP 19 and I've had to edit it to fit the current changes to the metagame.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Name: Dangerous Greed

Description: A Pokemon which benefits offensively from consuming items over and over, as opposed to defensively, while still maintaining viability and applying pressure on the opponent.

Justification: Typically, when a Pokemon is granted a move or ability (or a combination of the two, or sometimes with an ability that assists in some way, such as Sturdy) that allows it to continuously consume its item repeatedly, it tends to only make use of it to recover health or to prevent being KOed. There have been no real viable examples throughout Pokemon that allow for a means to make OFFENSIVE use of this maneuver. This would bring a whole new twist to the manipulation of consumable items that has yet to be seen.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How will this Pokemon's ability to reap stacked benefits from one reused item affect the OU metagame?
• Will the Pokemon still be able to function decently well without its item, perhaps by somehow stealing one from an enemy?
• Can the Pokemon be designed to do well offensively with its purpose to the point that reusing items for defensive benefits would be nonviable?
• Should Knock Off, Thief, Trick, and similar moves be able to disrupt this Pokemon's functionality or not? Should it be able to block or punish these attempts?
• Should this Pokemon put pressure on foes by having tricky status options or by being difficult to bring down while setting up?
• Should this Pokemon be able to force switches against relevant Pokemon in OU to better achieve its purpose?

Explanation: Abilities such as Harvest, Cheek Pouch, Unburden, Pickup, Gluttony, and Magician allow for the manipulation of items but usually either end up serving a defensive purpose or being useful only one time, where the benefits cease if the carrier must switch out or gain an item that is not consumable. Recycle is a move that provides another means of recalling a used item but also is almost never relied on for offensive benefits in competitive play. This Pokemon may be able to add something new to the OU metagame by forcing the opponent's choices in a different way, at a different opportunity cost. Additionally, the move Belch is a the strongest special Poison-type move in the game but is largely forgotten about due to its requirement, which is consuming a Berry, and it might have a shot at getting some spotlight if used by a Pokemon with a concept such as this, which brings yet more variety to the game. Generation VI mechanics allow for items to be recalled with Recycle even if the user comes back into battle without its item that it consumed before it switched out in the first place; this generation also brought less reliance on items as well as more conventional ways of removing them from enemy targets, so a Pokemon like this has a good shot at being competitively groundbreaking without being too overpowered.

 

[Tarontos]

Concept Name: The mediocre mon

General Description:
this Pokemon has only OK stats, ability, typing, and move pool but none of them are truly excellent but when put together they make the Pokemon a true threat either offensively or defensively or somewhere in the middle.(edit due to so me confusion the pokemon is meant to be good well having no particularly good parts)

Justification: we have seen many Pokemon over come crippling disabilities through amazing stats, abilities or stats or move pool. examples of this include Greninja( let's be hones his stat's aren't that good) who over came his only respectable stats to be banned from ou. we also have an example of from the only ice type in ou Kyruem b who overcame the deficiency by being a legendary. but we also have clef able something with mediocre stats who over came through fantastic typing a godlike pare of abilities and an expansive move pool. but we don't really have any thing that is really only ok in every thing but some how pulls those traits together to make something devastating. Bisharp is the only currently really good Pokemon that really shows something like this it's stats to be honest are mediocre out side of attack it how ever manages to be viable because it discourages defog and has a very strong sucker punch and can kill faeries.

Questions To Be Answered

• How do the various attributes of a Pokemon mix to make it "good"
• what abilities are ok but don't stand out
• what typing are ok but don't stand out
  
• what stats are ok but don't stand out
  
• how can a move pool be only ok
  
• what can make or break a Pokemon
• exactly how bad can part of something be made before it is entirely debilitated
• can it be done with out making it's role to niche.
• Can it be built?

Explanation: there aren't really any only OK Pokemon that excel in ou with only OK things they all have one or two things that bring them up to snuff to deal with. everything that is in ou is either good in every area or excels one or more.

 

[LightningLord2]

Name: Missing Link

General Description: A Pokémon that makes a gimmicky, niche or plain bad playstyle viable.

Justification: There's several moves, abilities and field effects that are fairly unique and can have a team built around it (e.g. Gravity, Assist, Magic Room). Problem is, many of the more unique options (let's skip the ones designed for doubles and triples) have so many flaws that making a good OU team with them is next to impossible.

Questions To Be Answered:
-What makes those strategies unviable to begin with?
-Can a single Pokémon "save" an entire playstyle?
-How would teams adapt to the presence of a now viable playstyle?

Explanation: In general, many playstyles that are considered gimmicky and unviable rely on either a field effect that doesn't last very long or a massive amount of team support to even work and even then has numerous counters. I'd say it most likely revolves around a field effect that has little usage, which would most likely be Gravity, Magic Room, Wonder Room or one of the terrains (Trick Room is very powerful in doubles, no need to aim for that). The best way to do this is to make sure the Pokémon and its teammates can employ a massive offensive pressure when it gets to play in its favored field. Alternately, this Pokémon could just beat up the things that keep the playstyle from working while still benefitting from it well. I suppose its biggest weakness is that it carries that entire playstyle, so opponents would be quick to notice what you're playing if you run it. This may or may not be avoidable.

 

[trc]

bored so resubmitting

Name: Distribution Revolution

Description: A Pokemon which puts heavy emphasis on the importance of the distribution of EVs.

Justification: EVs are an important, though often forgotten, part of competitive play. In Pokemon, the EVs define the end value of our stats. We are allowed 508 EVs which can be allotted in any of six stats, Attack, Special Attack, Defense, Special Defense, Speed, and HP. The aim of this concept is to create a Pokemon that takes advantage of the allowed amount of EVs in several different ways that result in several notably different ways of using the Pokemon, and seems almost perfect at doing so.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What competitive roles commonly differ based on EV spreads?
• Where can we see examples of this to make comparisons to the current concept?
• How important is specific EV investment in specific stats? Where is it more delicate than others?
• Is it possible to make a Pokemon that can be this delicate itself, where EV differences change its role vastly?
• How will the typing interact with this? Do we want a typing that seems like it would be successful at different roles?
• Will we consider there a finite amount of "usable EV spreads" that we can discover and utilize with this CAP, or is there room for exploration?

Explanation: The majority of offensive Pokemon are recommended to use a very simple EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk or SpA / 252 Spe in order to accomplish their given role. Defensive Pokemon are often seen with more elaborate EV spreads that increase overall bulk while also avoiding specific OHKOes / 2HKOes from certain Pokemon. Pokemon with particularly awkward Speed tiers often only use enough Speed EVs to outspeed the closest relevant threat below their maximum achievable Speed if it threatens that Pokemon in some way. However, there is often more in-depth EV distribution. Some people manipulate the amount of EVs in HP to take less damage from Stealth Rock while switching-in, or to gain more health from Leftovers. In the Genesect metagame, a huge amount of Pokemon with even Defense stats added 4 EVs in one of the defenses so that opposing Genesect would miss out on the Download boost that would favour them more. I want to see how much further we can go with this EV manipulation. I think we can create a Pokemon that can fulfil this criteria and be a positive metagame addition. I'm going to show some examples of hypothetical Pokemon that somewhat portray what I am trying to achieve. The Pokemon could have an interesting Speed tier with average stats all around. Lets say it is a mixed attacker with Speed just above Dragonite and Mamoswine, but gets KOed by Dragonite's Dragon Claw and Mamoswine's Earthquake. It has the moves Icicle Crash and Hydro Pump. If it runs enough Speed for Dragonite and enough Attack for Icicle Crash to KO it, then it will not have enough Special Attack investment leftover to OHKO Mamoswine, and this dies in return. If it runs enough Speed for Mamoswine it can allot more EVs in Special Attack, KO it, but lose out on Dragonite. Another example is a Pokemon that avoids being OHKOed / 2HKOed by both Azumarill and Keldeo with certain amounts of bulk; it can use enough Speed and bulk for Azumarill to survive one hit on the switch-in and KO back, but it lacks the bulk to avoid the 2HKO as it switches in on Keldeo. If it runs more bulk to survive the Keldeo 2HKO, it can't use enough Speed for Azumarill. The idea is to create a Pokemon that can fulfil several different roles depending on its EV spread (an example of such being XY's Mega Venusaur, which can be offensive or defensive, or BW Jirachi, which could wall certain Pokemon, take offensive roles, spread status, or revenge kill with a Choice Scarf), while also having a large amount of specific metagame-relevant examples of things gained and lost by certain EV spreads. This heavily influences the stat stage and may require a fair bit more research than other CAPs, but I think it is an interesting idea worth exploring. There is somewhat precedent with the likes of Jirachi and Mew, but they don't have the exact specific technicalities that this CAP would achieve. Altogether, I think it is an interesting choice for a CAP Pokemon and is definitely worth using.

looking back on it my examples were pretty bad but the concept is still sound imo so ignore the examples

 

[Tadasuke]

Tarontos, why would we ever set out on a project specifically designed to make a mediocre poke?

 

[Tarontos]

Tadasuke not the Pokemon mediocre just have nothing on it that is particularly good but sum together to be good

 

[Deck Knight]

Name: Field Marshall

General Description: A Pokemon that can significantly alter your own or the opponent's field of play through its movepool and team cohesiveness, in order to provide a permanent advantage for its user.

Justification: Perma-weather existed once, now it doesn't. Defog's upgrade made Screens and Hazards a lot harder to keep in play. However, there are still a few moves out there with much more esoteric removal methods, Trick Room and Gravity being two examples. That's not what this concept is really after though. This concept is about the best method for controlling the field to keep your strategy in play, and building a Pokemon that can fit that particular niche.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How important is controlling the field vs controlling the immediate active Pokemon matchup?
• Is presenting both a field control threat and an offensive or defensive threat necessary to maintaining good field control?
• Is a pure utility / field control Pokemon desirable or even viable with the offensive or defensive presence afforded to a metagame with so many viable Mega Pokemon?
• Which strategies are the most prone to having their momentum removed? Which are least likely to have that momentum removed?
• Which strategies gain you the most immediate momentum in the metagame? Which strategies are most often not worth the effort to set up?

Explanation: What I'm really going for here is a revisit of something like Fidgit's concept, where the Pokemon is built around building into your overall strategy and/or quickly turning around an opponent's overall strategy. Hyper Offense for example uses Dual Screens as its field control, while Stall combines Hazards, Recovery, and Phazing to slowly chip away at opponents. A good example of a field control Pokemon would be something like Excadrill, which can both set up its hazard and clear opponents. Other Pokemon have elements of this, but are really more about setting up for you or removing an opponents progress, examples being Ferrothorn for the former and Defog Scizor for the latter.

What doesn't really exist is a Pokemon that is varied enough to combine multiple elements of this. For example, a Pokemon that can set up Screens but it also offensively biased enough to have, say, a strong Brick Break to remove the screens of opponents without removing their own. Mega Medicham can do this in theory, but doesn't in practice - and maybe it is too big an ask, or the opportunity cost is too high. I think a concept that could explore this kind of permanent, or at least very difficult to reverse, field control would be a good test against the new threats in the ORAS metagame.

 

[Woodchuck]

Concept Name: All Animals Are Equal, But Some More Than Others
General Description:
A Pokémon that constantly decentralizes the metagame's top players, while not becoming the most centralizing player itself.

The problem with a concept like this is we will never be able to evaluate the Pokemon's effects on "centralization" via the playtest because the playtest is always centered on the CAP. While we can still learn from most playtests as to how well the CAP fitted its concept, a CAP concept that requires us to evaluate whether the Pokemon successfully decentralized the metagame will always be corrupted by the nature of the playtest.

 

[Bughouse]

Unfortunately, what I keep seeing are broad, multi-option (read: vague) concepts that are interesting to discuss until concept assessment decides what small part of it we will tackle and then become significantly trivial to implement.

I haven't commented on any concepts directly because exactly zero have looked satisfactory to me in their present form.

 

[Zepkhan]

Name:Speed Trick

General Description:A mid-paced pokemon whose speed can be determined by abilities.
Justification:Speed can be a key factor in battles. Often being the determinant of matches, shown by Blaziken’s banning to ubers. Subpunch and Trick Room are also good strategies for slow pokemon. Speed Trick is a pokemon that can play fast or slow depending on playstyles.

Questions To Be Answered:
-What effect would a speed-changing pokemon have on the metagame as a whole?
-Will it be played fast or slow?
-Will speed changing alone make it viable?
-How will it function with various team strategies?

Explanation:Unburden has been a good ability in OU with Hawlucha in combo with Fling and in Ranbats with Slurpuff, Hitmonlee and Accelgor and Red Card. Or if you’re up against an already fast mixed attacker, Tricking it a choice scarf can make an opponent lose momentum or force a switch. Or is it better to take it slow with a SubPunch to a key target a la Breloom. As a trade-off for a speed ability, the pokemon can also have an attack ability.

 

[Bughouse]

This was a concept from 2 caps ago submitted by TooMuchSugar that I always liked. I'm quoting this more or less verbatim because I think TooMuchSugar explained it very well the first time. I slightly updated the explanation to more relevantly fit the ORAS metagame compared to the XY metagame of CAP 18. I also changed the questions section, which was the one part I felt I could significantly improve.

Name: Scarf Is Not Dead

Description: A Pokemon that is a very effective user of a Choice Scarf in the current metagame, and and that is defined by its usage of Choice Scarf.

Justification: With the rise of priority and naturally fast pokemon in XY and ORAS, Choice Scarf, once one of the best items in the game, is now much less commonly seen. There is much less reason to use, for example, one of BW's most common Scarfers, Scarf Keldeo, when you could have a powerful priority user or fast Pokemon with the ability to change moves instead. This project would allow us to explore one of the biggest changes in the new metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:
-How has the importance of speed changed in Gen 6?
-What aspects of a Pokemon will make it an ideal user of a choice item, particularly scarf?
-What qualities would make a Pokemon willing to sacrifice its ability to change moves for extra speed?
-How successful can a Pokemon be when its best set is known and predictable?
-Since Choice Scarf is seemingly less useful of an item, is it even possible to make an OU-viable Pokemon who can do no better than Choice Scarf?
-How mediocre must the Pokemon's other options be to result in Choice Scarf's preeminence?

Explanation:
In Generation 5, a Choice Scarf user was mandatory on every offensive team. Even some stall teams found a team slot to fit a scarfer in. Choice Scarf was by far the best way to revenge kill in BW, as there was far less priority and very few pokemon broke the 110 speed tier. However, this has all gone out the window in Generation 6. Priority is everywhere, with new additions such as Talonflame, Mega Scizor, and Mega Lopunny combined with the newfound power of old abusers like Bisharp and Azumarill. There are also many new additions with incredibly high speed, such as Hawlucha, Mega Manectric, and Mega Aerodactyl. Even Thundurus-I has joined in the revenge killing frenzy with its priority Thunder Wave allowing it to ruin almost every setup sweeper. With all these options, there is virtually no reason to use a choice scarfer today. This project would allow us to explore what qualities would make a Choice Scarf user equally or more desirable than any of these, and also to gain a new understanding of the item itself. Given the extreme importance of revenge killing, I think that these would all be very useful subjects to explore.

The second qualification in the description - that the Pokemon be defined by Choice Scarf - is there to make sure the CAP will not just be a generally good pokemon that can use a Choice Scarf well (Keldeo, Landorus-T), but a Pokemon that is good only with scarf and otherwise mediocre. Think Genesect in very early B2W2 before people started using Rock Polish, but less broken obviously.

I understand that there could be some concern about how focused my concept is on studying a single item. My idea was that, through studying Choice Scarf, we could gain understanding of not just the item itself, but of a lot of other changes that have come with XY - particularly the greater emphasis on momentum and the change in speed's importance in OU. This concept would let us see at what point it is optimal to potentially risk momentum in order to achieve greater speed, what changes in the importance of speed have occurred (I can't make this much more specific because I'm not sure what the answer is), and what other Pokemon a Choice Scarfer would be competing for a teamslot with. I feel that these are great opportunities to learn about the metagame.

the original submission

Name: Scarf Is Not Dead

Description: A pokemon that is a very effective user of a Choice Scarf in the current metagame, and and that is defined by its usage of Choice Scarf.

Justification: With the rise of priority and naturally fast pokemon in XY, Choice Scarf, once one of the best items in the game, is now barely ever seen. There is practically no reason to use, for example, a Scarf Keldeo when you could have a powerful priority user or fast pokemon with the ability to change moves instead. This project would allow us to explore one of the biggest changes in the new metagame, which would be very interesting and useful going into XY.

Questions To Be Answered:
-How has the importance of speed changed in X and Y?
-What factors affect the usefulness of an item?
-What aspects of a pokemon will make it an ideal user of a choice item, particularly scarf?
-What qualities would make a pokemon willing to sacrifice its ability to change moves for extra speed?
-How will the metagame adapt to the addition of a new revenge killer? (assuming that the scarfer will be used primarily as a revenge killer)

Explanation:
In Black and White, a Choice Scarf user was mandatory on every offensive team. Even some stall teams found a team slot to fit a scarfer in. Choice Scarf was by far the best way to revenge kill in BW, as there was far less priority and very few pokemon broke the 110 speed tier. However, this has all gone out the window in X and Y. Priority is everywhere, with new additions such as Talonflame, Aegislash, and Mega-Pinsir combined with the newfound power of old abusers like Bisharp and Azumarill. There are also many new additions with incredibly high speed, such as Greninja and Mega-Manectric, and Deoxys-S, the fastest of them all, has returned to OU as well. Even Thundurus-I has joined in the revenge killing frenzy with its priority Thunder Wave allowing it to ruin almost every setup sweeper. With all these options, there is virtually no reason to use a choice scarfer today. This project would allow us to explore what qualities would make a Choice Scarf user equally or more desirable than any of these, and also to gain a new understanding of the item itself. Given the extreme importance of revenge killing, I think that these would all be very useful subjects to explore.

The second qualification in the description - that the pokemon be defined by Choice Scarf - is there to make sure the CAP will not just be a generally good pokemon that can use a Choice Scarf well (Keldeo, Landorus), but a pokemon that is good only with scarf and otherwise mediocre. Think Genesect in very early B2W2 before people started using Rock Polish, but less broken obviously.

I understand that there could be some concern about how focused my concept is on studying a single item. My idea was that, through studying Choice Scarf, we could gain understanding of not just the item itself, but of a lot of other changes that have come with XY - particularly the greater emphasis on momentum and the change in speed's importance in OU. This concept would let us see at what point it is optimal to potentially risk momentum in order to achieve greater speed, what changes in the importance of speed have occurred (I can't make this much more specific because I'm not sure what the answer is), and what other pokemon a Choice Scarfer would be competing for a teamslot with. I feel that these are great opportunities to learn about the metagame, particularly early in the generation.

 

[noobiess]

Name: Building the Great Wall

Description: A defensive pokémon with the ability to set-up and becomes as dangerous as a set-up sweeper

Justification: Don't you ever miss the times where you had to use a thousand tackles to finally beat that Metapod that only used harden? Or you couldn't kill Geodude because you didn't have water gun? Back in the days, those where the dangerous pokémon. In the current metagame there hardly are any (set-up) walls anymore. Everything hits so hard so fast, that the only way to win is to hit harder and faster. With this concept I want to bring back an old niche: the set-up wall. We know it is possible to do so, we have seen it before. Think of curse Snorlax, Calm mind Slowbro, ... . Now it is time for a comeback!

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is it possible to create a set-up wall in the current metagame?
• How will a set-up wall affect the current metagame?
• What qualities must a set-up wall have to function in the current metagame?
• Can a defensive pokémon as dangerous as an offensive one?
• Can it bring back the nostalgia of the "too hard Metapod"?

Explanation: I actually wanted to create this concept for previous CAP (but was too late) mostly because I miss defensive pokémon in the current metagame. With the current massive offensive base stats (for example Mega-heracross (185), Mega gallade (165), Mega alakazam (175),... ) even the best walls can't counter without taking a big blow to the head. They suffer to survive and are replaced by hard-hitters. It is time to fight back ... with a dangerous set-up wall!
The meaning here is to create a wall that is already able to wall a few specific pokémon very well but still has some obvious flaws. It also has the ability to boots its defenses (aka building the Great Wall) so it can wall a larger amount of pokémon. If CAP20 succeeds in setting up, it should be indestructible and win the match (like a set-up sweeper).
So CAP20 shouldn't be promoted to serve 'just as a wall' for few pokémon but to set-up to go for the win.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Name: Building the Great Wall

Description: A defensive pokémon with the ability to set-up and becomes as dangerous as a set-up sweeper

Justification: Don't you ever miss the times where you had to use a thousand tackles to finally beat that Metapod that only used harden? Or you couldn't kill Geodude because you didn't have water gun? Back in the days, those where the dangerous pokémon. In the current metagame there hardly are any (set-up) walls anymore. Everything hits so hard so fast, that the only way to win is to hit harder and faster. With this concept I want to bring back an old niche: the set-up wall. We know it is possible to do so, we have seen it before. Think of curse Snorlax, Calm mind Slowbro, ... . Now it is time for a comeback!

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is it possible to create a set-up wall in the current metagame?
• How will a set-up wall affect the current metagame?
• What qualities must a set-up wall have to function in the current metagame?
• Can a defensive pokémon as dangerous as an offensive one?
• Can it bring back the nostalgia of the "too hard Metapod"?

Explanation: I actually wanted to create this concept for previous CAP (but was too late) mostly because I miss defensive pokémon in the current metagame. With the current massive offensive base stats (for example Mega-heracross (185), Mega gallade (165), Mega alakazam (175),... ) even the best walls can't counter without taking a big blow to the head. They suffer to survive and are replaced by hard-hitters. It is time to fight back ... with a dangerous set-up wall!
The meaning here is to create a wall that is already able to wall a few specific pokémon very well but still has some obvious flaws. It also has the ability to boots its defenses (aka building the Great Wall) so it can wall a larger amount of pokémon. If CAP20 succeeds in setting up, it should be indestructible and win the match (like a set-up sweeper).
So CAP20 shouldn't be promoted to serve 'just as a wall' for few pokémon but to set-up to go for the win.

Unless I'm misunderstanding this concept, doesn't Clefable already fill this roll? It's a heavily defensive Pokemon with good defensive typing that can set up and sweep if given the time. Mega-Altaria is also in a similar position, among other Pokemon I could mention. In fact, what your describing seems to be in surprisingly high quantity this format.

 

[Birkal]

QC Sweep

Acast - Too limiting for my taste. Forcing us into Protean doesn't really work with our current CAP process. While this could be interesting, it doesn't really fit with what CAP does at the moment. How would this be relevant?
Alfalfa - Too overpowered. Latias and especially Heatran can have an offensive presence dependent on the set you run. Having a CAP with all three parts of the "build triangle" sounds not only broken, but a boring process.
wh0s - Sure. Leads are important (less so with team preview, but whatever), so it would be worth discussing. APPROVED
Sparkl3y - Good core idea, but could use redefining of questions and idea. Studying stall in Gen6 would be interesting, sure, but what would make this stand out?
Ununhexium - Sure. I think it would be fun to select a bunch of different playstyles and talk about the flexibility of certain types / abilities / items / movepools. APPROVED
Phione - Interesting idea, let's do it. To me, I think the most interesting process part of this would be seeing if we could make a "better" pivot than current ones. What are the bare essentials of a pivot? APPROVED
Elite - Yeah, I wouldn't mind discussing it. Relevant to metagame as a sort of "decentralizer" concept, which we haven't done in a while. APPROVED
hendrix - There aren't any abilities out there that can abuse the wazoo out of only 4 turns of hail without bringing it in themselves, which limits our abilities... Not really viable, sorry!
The Avalanches - I find this kind of bland. We don't have as much of this in Gen6, but we've had multi-ability mons in the past. DW Salamence immediately comes to mind.
Cretacerus - Eviolite doesn't really fit the CAP mold. It has initial sparkle in that it's "unique," but what do we really have to learn outside of that?
Amitghosh - Priority is relevant, and this concept seems like a good way to start addressing it. APPROVED
vyomov - The problem with sun is that it's no longer permanent. Nothing we can give a CAP will change that.
NumberCruncher - Luck is interesting, I agree. While I like the core idea of this concept, there is little we can do to prevent luck outside of abilities, as many moves aren't worth taking time out to prevent risk (imo). Gonna say no for now.
Qwilphish - I'm not convinced Momentum Stall is an actual playstyle? Balanced is already the middle ground between stall and offense, so I don't see where this niche fits. Maybe I am misinterpreting this though.
Bramblestein - Seems pretty limiting outside of picking an ability, no? Not fun for a process.
heartofgold - Switching is important, so this could be a great topic to cover. I have no idea what the CAP would look like, which is fun. APPROVED
Valmanway - Seems like more of a "fix" than an interesting topic... People hate burn, but that's part of the metagame. We don't really need to learn about how much we hate it lol.
Ignus - There are numerous ways we could approach this concept, as long as we're making the use of Knock Off a loss of momentum. Not sure how practical it is, but let's discuss it. APPROVED


That's all I have time for at the moment. Will look at some more tomorrow evening! The approved concepts will get their own thread momentarily. For those who weren't approved, consider a) making a new concept, or b) redefining how your concept would fit in with CAP or the metagame. Thanks!

 

[infamy]

Name: Defensive Trapper
General Description: A trapper (i.e., a Pokemon with the ability Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, or Magnet Pull) that beats common checks to defensive team archetypes.
Justification: One often sees the use of trappers on offensive teams in order to eliminate the checks and counters to a particular sweeper. However, stall or semi-stall teams very rarely feature trappers due to the offensive inclination of viable trappers (stuff like Magnezone, Gothitelle and Dugtrio). By trying to create a defensively-oriented trapper, we can balance out the current metagame, where stall is one of the least used playstyles. It can also teach us, either by success or failure, about the nature of trapping Pokemon- whether they are inherently offensive or if GameFreak has just failed to make any successful defensive trappers (Wobbuffet is perhaps the closest, but it hasn't been very viable since Gen 4). It would also introduce an almost entirely new role on stall and possibly change the archetype.
Questions To Be Answered:
-How do trappers function in the OU metagame?
-Is trapping an exclusively offensive capability?
-How will stall teams function with a new niche that allows them to potentially eliminate their checks and counters?
-In the event that the CAP fails, why? Was it because trappers and stall are simply incompatible, or due to many other potential reasons?
-What can we learn about stall from this CAP?
-If this CAP is successful, what Pokemon will rise in usage because of its influence on the meta? Similarly, what will fall?
Explanation: I know stall just got a massive buff in the form of a particular gem-bearing elf, but I feel it's largely underplayed- according to the December usage statistics, stall and semi-stall make up a little bit more than 13% of the OU metagame. Despite the amount of buffs stall got with ORAS- e.g. Mega Sableye, Drain Punch Chesnaught, Mega Altaria- people still aren't using it, and thus it's much more unexplored than more common archetypes like hyper offense and balance. For this reason, I think we should try to explore this lesser-used playstyle in CAP.

 

[noobiess]

Unless I'm misunderstanding this concept, doesn't Clefable already fill this roll? It's a heavily defensive Pokemon with good defensive typing that can set up and sweep if given the time. Mega-Altaria is also in a similar position, among other Pokemon I could mention. In fact, what your describing seems to be in surprisingly high quantity this format.

That is never true. That is why I said 'hardly ever' in stead of 'never'.
In the 'old metagame' a set-up wall was common, and not a gimmicky tactic, while this is not the case in the new metagame.
The offensive pokémon dominate the metagame now. I would prefer to have more balance here, and I think CAP20 is able to have such an effect.