STABmons Viability Ranking

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So, in light of the recent meta coming taking an extremely stally turn, with Chansey-Quag cores becoming more effective as of late, Gothitelle should move up from B- up to A or B- a the least. Armed with shadow tag and all the moves needed to break all the common walls and cores (Trick for Chansey, Heatran, and Ferrothorn, Thunderbolt for Skarm, Energy Ball for Quagsire and other bulky waters, the always effective Hp Ice, rounded out with Psystrike), it's an extremely underrated and underused mon that is essentially the equalizer in a match between offense and well-built stall, which, if you didn't know, currently heavily favors stall.
 

Unranked -> C+ Rank

After testing Mega Glalie for a while, I've come to the conclusion that it should be ranked somewhere; I believe this rank is C+. Mega Glalie doesn't look very appealing, really. No new moves of note, mediocre stats in general, still bad Speed because priority everywhere, and general opportunity cost in using. It's totally understandable! But, then you look a bit further into it. Mega Glalie is a very powerful nuke with a very powerful STAB Double-Edge. While this may seem like a small niche, I've found it insanely useful. The main reason for this is because Mega Glalie is very effective against standard stall at the moment. Here are some calcs to demonstrate:

-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 496-588 (129.8 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 208-246 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 319-376 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 162-192 (46 - 54.5%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Latias: 306-362 (84 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I know what you're thinking, huh? A wall of calcs? Really? What does that even prove? Well, it proves just how powerful this menace is. However, anyone can show you calculation of x Pokemon defeating y Pokemon, but I think these are relevant. All of these Pokemon are used on stall, and all of them are 2HKOed with ease. Double-Edge dents anything that has to switch into it. I've been using this on HO with a suicide Skarmory lead, and it's been working so well to prevent them from being removed by applying a ton of offensive pressure. All of these Pokemon are pressured, and all offensive Pokemon are pressured. The real kick to Mega Glalie, however, is Explosion, which blasts the opponent to smithereens! Literally! Explosion prevents Defog or Rapid Spin, and hurts like hell. Earthquake smacks Heatran and OHKOes it, so that's cool!

However, Mega Glalie is really mediocre otherwise. It's slow, not bulky, has a bad typing, and kills itself very quickly. I believe it fits the C Rank description perfectly, "These Pokemon can threaten or check some portions of the metagame but often have large flaws that require more support". Mega Glalie can threaten some portions, the slower-paced portion, and requires support because of its large flaws. I think it belongs in C+ versus C or C- because it's better than Bronzong, better than Bibarel, and certainly better than Vaporeon. Hell, I'd even say B- isn't too bad, but I think I'm stretching and grasping at straws at that point! So yeah, and just a general note: please don't comment on putting it lower without using it n_n! It kinda doesn't look too great on paper, but it's very effective in battle.
 
Deoxys-D should be somewhere on this list. With it's 160 base defenses and new access to Stored Power, it can easily run Cosmic Power/Stored Power with little risk. It also has access to Nasty Plot, Recover, Substitute, Spikes/Stealth Rock, Counter/Mirror Coat, and a plethora of other viable moves.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
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Question from a STABmons noob: Why is Diggersby so good?
I'm not the most experienced person with STABmons, but it's FakeSpeed set is really dangerous. Against offensive teams it can revenge about all non-Ghost, Rock or Steel types, and even some Rock and Steel types when weakened. It's also extremely strong with Huge Power and Ground STAB patches up the weakness against Rock and Steel types. Normal is an excellent type and gives it setup options as well, even though the revengekiller set is usually preferred. In ORAS it even got Knock Off to hit bulky Ghosts and Gengar harder!
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Question from a STABmons noob: Why is Diggersby so good?
Its so good because its the premier revenge killer and nearly impossible to counter, which makes it really amazing. Imagine Talonflame in OU. Make it stronger, give it better coverage, and make it resistant to rocks. Theres an idea of what diggersby is like.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Deoxys-D should be somewhere on this list. With it's 160 base defenses and new access to Stored Power, it can easily run Cosmic Power/Stored Power with little risk. It also has access to Nasty Plot, Recover, Substitute, Spikes/Stealth Rock, Counter/Mirror Coat, and a plethora of other viable moves.
Where would you put it?
 
Question from a STABmons noob: Why is Diggersby so good?
What's been said already is quite accurate. I'm just adding that, due to STABmons' tendency to encourage people to run very frail Setup Sweepers, Diggersby finds it easy to fit in as an anti-meta Pokemon.

It's been suspected twice already. That should give you an idea of how good it is.

About Deoxys-D, it takes time to set up. By the time it gets to +3 Cosmic Power something can Belly Drum and Knock Off the daylight out of it. I kind of agree that it deserves a very low rank though. It's got excellent Defenses.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
What's been said already is quite accurate. I'm just adding that, due to STABmons' tendency to encourage people to run very frail Setup Sweepers, Diggersby finds it easy to fit in as an anti-meta Pokemon.

It's been suspected twice already. That should give you an idea of how good it is.

About Deoxys-D, it takes time to set up. By the time it gets to +3 Cosmic Power something can Belly Drum and Knock Off the daylight out of it. I kind of agree that it deserves a very low rank though. It's got excellent Defenses.
C...ish. Remember it still can abuse its bulk and set hazards / taunt, while also being able to abuse psychic's massive support movepool
 
Mega Aerodactyl to A+
Mega Aerodactyl is a very strong pokemon in the metagame. Not only is it extremely powerful with dragon's ascent, it has good coverage with earthquake and a nuke button with head smash. It also has an excellent typing for stabmons, with an immunity to earthquake and a resistance to flying and normal, allowing it to be a very good diggersby and talonflame switch-in. Overall one of the best pokemon in the game and the rank should reflect that.

Keldeo to A+
Keldeo's main job in stabmons is to click water spout and watch things die. Seriously, with specs it ohkos mew, does around 60% to latios, and can 2hko mega venusaur. It also gets good coverage with secret sword, and can use vacuum wave for some powerful priority. It is very hard to counter, and is able to do a lot of damage to stall teams without mega latias or something. Offense teams also get wrecked by it because it gets a kill every time it comes in (generally) IDK what else to say, try it out.

Skarmory to A or A-
Skarmory is not a very good pokemon in this meta. While it is probably the best diggersby counter in the game, it is far to passive. It gives free switchins to practically every special attacker in the game, is able to be taken advantage of with taunt, can't really do anything except whirlwind or metal burst setup sweepers, and is in general a momentum killer. It does offer support in the form of stealth rocks, defog and spikes, but not much else.

Ferrothorn to A
Ferrothorn is similar to skarmory, except it is wayyyy less passive. It can hit switchins with leech seed, and also doesn't have to rely on metal burst or whirlwind to beat things, with powerful gyro balls, horn leechs, power whips and even knock off if you want . It's an amazing glue pokemon that offers switchins to threats such as diggersby, latios, and aegislash, as well as the incredibly important water resistance.
 
Keldeo to A+
Keldeo's main job in stabmons is to click water spout and watch things die. Seriously, with specs it ohkos mew, does around 60% to latios, and can 2hko mega venusaur. It also gets good coverage with secret sword, and can use vacuum wave for some powerful priority. It is very hard to counter, and is able to do a lot of damage to stall teams without mega latias or something. Offense teams also get wrecked by it because it gets a kill every time it comes in (generally) IDK what else to say, try it out.
I've been using this for sometime now. The Specs set is truly a monster. The only time I've ever not used Water Spout is when I'm against a Chansey. It is a nuke. However, the specs set is easily outsped. Diggersby can take it out with Fakespeed. Talonflame has Dragon Ascent. Lati@s outspeed it. M-Pidgeot outspeeds. Scarf Lando-T which seems to be on the rise now KOs it. Aerodactyl KOs it. Basically any flying type that outspeeds it, any fakespeed user and most scarf users can take out Keldeo easily. Plus, even if they don't, your HP is going to be low, so you'll be forced to use another move such as Origin Pulse. I ended up swapping the Specs for a Scarf now though, and it seems to be working well.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Proposals

A --> A+
For a long time I argued that regular Aerodactyl was better, but I disagree with that now and think the Mega is very effective in this metagame. Bulky spreads are able to handle physical attackers while also maintaining a blistering Speed and high damage output with Tough Claws. This thing can tear up a lot of teams.
A+ --> A-
Agreeing that Skarm is just too passive. WW is great and Metal Burst can deal some damage, but that severely competes with its other slots when it still wants Roost, King's Shield, hazards/Defog, and even Taunt. Still a fantastic Diggersby check due to the prevalence of weaker elemental punches/Knock Off vs. Wild Charge, and with King's Shield it's one of the best answers to BD sets.
A- --> A
Also agreeing that Ferrothorn can do more than just support. The attacks you listed are all relevant to the meta. Its typing is awesome. All around great glue and synergizes great with other bulky supporters that are effective right now like Gyarados, Zapdos, and Latias.
No change
Not sold on this one yet. It is dangerous and often it does blow things up with Water Spout but its dual STABs are resisted by a lot of Pokemon, and like DarkeKnight said, it's easy to pick off without a Scarf or you can just shave off HP with priority and tank Origin Pulse much more comfortably once Water Spout is down in power. We all know its coverage sucks, and since it's almost always choiced, scouting is easier. Basically I think the metagame is getting accustomed to it and has prepared enough to the point where it doesn't steamroll teams anymore. But it's still really really good.
N/A --> C
I suppose as a bulky supporter it has its merits, thanks to Taunt and Hazards along with Recover. Psychic grants a lot of goodies, so there are some tools it gains that I'm sure we're not really utilizing to their fullest quite yet. However, Dark is easy to spam. Let's start with C rank.
A+ --> A/A-
I don't see this as much anymore because I think it's too outclassed by Diggersby. Support sets were popular for a while, but even there it struggled since it's vulnerable to Taunt and can't hit worth shit off 50/60 offenses. Overall, it's a good mon (Water is super awesome offensively) I just can't see it in A+ anymore.
A+ --> A/A-
Tyranitar has left the building. Seriously, where is it lately? Probably a combination of things: Landorus-T is everywhere, Keldeo is still everywhere, Scizor is still (nearly) everywhere, and there are other megas that are just better at fitting on teams, like Aerodactyl and Scizor. Mega Tyranitar used to be my go-to mega. Now, I'm often struggling to find room for any mega because so many threats are viable as standalones. Basically this has too much competition.
B+ --> A-
I have a huge boner for Gyarados right now, whether it be supportive (like my post in Creative & Underused) or bulky setup or Moxie. Its typing is great offensively and defensively and lately it hasn't let me down. Other people are recognizing it too. In the last room tour I joined, it was on both teams in the finals.
A- --> A
See above mostly because that's how this guy starts, only to get better. Intimidate+mega evolution is a slick little combo as we all know. Mold Breaker is just a great ability to have, too. I see Mega Gyara similar to Kyurem-B: Sub, Dance, Attack. Roost when needed. Crabhammer is the STAB of choice because Water is SE against a lot of common threats.
A- --> B+/B
I don't know what this is doing in A anymore. Shift Gear? All right, but its dual STAB blows and hits nothing SE in S rank for example. Is it still abusing Luster Purge? Not with Defiant as common as it is. I think this star is fading, fast.
B --> C+
This was common in the earlier days of XY. Besides always pooping on Keldeo, I don't know what else it wants to do. I guess it's a neat Quagsire counter and U-turn packs great momentum, but there are better team supporters in my opinion.
B --> A-
Hi I'm Clefable and I wall you. Basically this is just another answer to setup if you're looking for something other than Sableye/Quagsire/Diggersby. Namely, it isn't bopped by Fairy STAB like Sableye, it isn't 4x weak to a type like Quagsire, and it isn't offensive like Diggersby. Usually. It can setup on its own, something Quagsire never does, and Unaware is great for doing that.
B- --> B+
I really don't like #TheVoice namely because I *hate* facing it. It's fast, it Sings past subs, and it U-turns outta there just when you think you have it trapped. Sure, it's highly predictable and its STABs are shitty versus things like Heatran and Aegislash. But if the Heatran/Aegi player is foolish enough to let that Pokemon fall asleep, Pidgeot will wear it down with Boomburst/Hurricane (or even Heatwave for Aegi, but I prefer Sing/U-turn/Boomburst/Hurricane.) Adam Levine wants this on his team, so that has to mean something.
B- --> B/B+
The combination of Moonblast/Power Gem/Earth Power is awesome on Geomancy sets. I think people often go for the Mega forme, but standard Diancie is still good, though the Speed even when doubled can be a let down. Luckily she resists Fakespeed, so revenging is a bit harder until Scizor comes in with Bullet Punch.
C+ --> Unranked?
C+ --> Unranked?
C --> Unranked?
D --> Unranked?
D --> Unranked?
D --> Unranked?
What do these things offer that aren't taken care of by something else?

Harder sells:
A- --> B+
All it really traps reliably is Skarmory, which is great for opening up a hole for Diggersby, but Skarmory is pretty threatened by other better Pokemon already, like Thundurus, Charizard, and Heatran. I guess it can trap Ferrothorn and remove it with HP Fire, but when I've run Magnezone, it has been with Volt Switch/Thunderbolt/Doom Desire/King's Shield. Why Electric twice? Because if you kill Skarmory with Volt Switch you give the opponent the upperhand with the switch, and we all know how valuable turns are in STABmons.
A- --> B+/B
So it's a bulky Scrappy spinner? Spinning isn't very hard and Defog is easy, too. OK, so it's a Scrappy Belly Drummer? Kangaskhan has better coverage and Drain Punch.

Let me know what you think!
 
Mega-Beedril isn't ranked, even? I know it can't touch Steel Types except Heatran, but it's still a hard-hitter. With Magnezone by its side, it can UTurn, Trap + Kill Steel Types. Pitch in something to handle FakeSpeeders and you've gotten yourself a wonderful Wallbreaker. Throw in a sweeper like Kyurem-B and you've gotten yourself a wonderful team.

I think B+ would be a nice place for it now.
 
Eevee General I agree with nearly all of those changes except Skarmory. I don't believe its wall set is all that good, but I've been using Skarm HO as a suicide lead and it's incredibly effective. I think a drop to A is warranted, but nothing below it.

DinaIsha Mega Beedrill is really terrible from my experiences with it. It's hard to get in, slow before Mega, terrible typing, and it's really only semi-effective as Mega which is destroyed by priority. If anything, C+ is the place for this, not B+.
 
Guys, has anyone tried to run Mega Zard Y with Flame Charge and Eruption? I think it would wreck house.

Also, I might try Powder Leavanny just for the laughs
 
Guys, has anyone tried to run Mega Zard Y with Flame Charge and Eruption? I think it would wreck house.

Also, I might try Powder Leavanny just for the laughs
The problem with running Eruption in this meta is the amount of Priority in the tier, not to mention how SR is already a problem for zard. I would rather stick to Blue flare, it is weaker but still hits the KOs you need and 2HKOs a great amount of the tier with hazards.
 
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canno

formerly The Reptile
Actually I can see Eruption working, especially since it has Oblivion Wing to heal it all the way back up. I wouldn't replace Blue Flare with it but it could be a nifty 4th slot if you don't feel like running V-Create. Something like OW / Blue Flare / Solar Beam or Focus Blast / Eruption looks promising.

Yes Eruption gets weakened by ExtremeSpeed, but so does Keldeo's Water Spout and it uses it just fine, so I don't see why Zard can't outside of like a competing movepool (V-Create is really good, Focus Blast or Earthquake is useful for Heatran, Solar Beam for dem Waters, ect)
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Actually I can see Eruption working, especially since it has Oblivion Wing to heal it all the way back up. I wouldn't replace Blue Flare with it but it could be a nifty 4th slot if you don't feel like running V-Create. Something like OW / Blue Flare / Solar Beam or Focus Blast / Eruption looks promising.

Yes Eruption gets weakened by ExtremeSpeed, but so does Keldeo's Water Spout and it uses it just fine, so I don't see why Zard can't outside of like a competing movepool (V-Create is really good, Focus Blast or Earthquake is useful for Heatran, Solar Beam for dem Waters, ect)
I've always felt that Earthquake was mandatory. Focus Blast is all around shittier considering Earthquake bops Heatran no problem and you don't have to pray for 2 Focus Misses in a row.

I'd say Oblivion Wing / Blue Flare / Earthquake is static while the fourth slot can go to Eruption or V-create. Solar Beam is cool but not necessary. What are you trying to hit with it anyway? Quagsire? And it's not like Azumarill is switching in anyway during Drought unless it's Thick Fat. Okay, so maybe Slowking? I can see that but then again:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowking in Sun: 195-230 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Assault Vest would obviously necessitate Solar Beam, but what's more popular, AV Slowking or Heatran in general?

Also this conversation is probably better suited for the main thread. Unless you're advocating for a rank change with Eruption, I don't know what it's doing here.
 
Oblivion wing should not be run for the same reasons air slash in ou shouldn't be run. Blue flare/v-create does more damage than oblivion wing on all but 4x fire resists or a 2x fire resist and a flying weakness. Of those relevant, this is infernape, thick fat azumarill, charizard x, and kingdra. Of those, solar beam does more to azumarill and kingdra than oblivion wing, infernape will die anyway because it has no bulk, and earthquake and focus blast do more to charizard x. You might lose out on some passive recovery but that's what roost is for. The best set imo is v-create/blue flare | solarbeam | earthquake | roost. I guess you could run eruption or oblivion wing over roost if you want, up to you. Eruption doesn't seem very reliable though, with only a mediocre speed tier and a 4x weakness to stealth rocks.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
4x weakness to stealth rocks.
^Why you should be running Oblivion Wing. Roost is way too passive for a nuke. Why would I waste a turn recovering when I can use that turn to attack AND recover? And it's not like it's Giga Drain. It has 75% HP recovery, so you don't even need to OHKO to out-recover Roost. The selling point is OW isn't passive recovery, it's active.

Also, why does hitting Kingdra and Thick Fat Azu harder even matter? Kingdra has zero presence in STABmons. Azu is really passive outside of Huge Power, its Scald is weakened by Drought, Moonblast is resisted, so all it can do is Toxic if it carries it. I don't think anyone is counting on Azumarill to beat Mega Charizard-Y anytime soon tbh. And I already listed Earthquake as a necessity on the main set, so you still get the SE against its brother Zard-X.

I see very little reason not to run your STAB moves, especially when you have one of the best moves in the entire game. And like I said, if we're not suggesting a rank change, let's talk about Zard-Y in the main convo.
 
Also, why does hitting Kingdra and Thick Fat Azu harder even matter? Kingdra has zero presence in STABmons. Azu is really passive outside of Huge Power, its Scald is weakened by Drought, Moonblast is resisted, so all it can do is Toxic if it carries it. I don't think anyone is counting on Azumarill to beat Mega Charizard-Y anytime soon tbh. And I already listed Earthquake as a necessity on the main set, so you still get the SE against its brother Zard-X.
That was kinda my point. Those are the only three things that OW hits harder against than with its fire move, and other coverage moves hit them harder anyway. Using oblivion wing offers zero coverage, although I guess the passive recovery is nice. I suppose its up to personal preference whether you run OW or roost.
 

A+ Rank ---> S Rank

Mega Aerodactyl is a very dominant force in the current metagame. I've been thinking about nominating this for a few weeks and I really think it's time for this to happen. Mega Aerodactyl is a Pokemon I'm sure most STABmons players are seeing more and more of lately because it's just so good. Tough Claws Dragon Ascent is a godsend and has the ability to 2HKO a large majority of the tier alone. Diamond Storm is an excellent buff as well, and makes Dragon Ascent's drops in Defense not super detrimental. The most common set is probably Diamond Storm / Dragon Ascent / Roost / [Taunt / Coverage] and it fulfills the role of a fast and powerful attacker extremely well. But I think what really pushes Mega Aerodactyl into S Rank is how it has the natural ability to counter Diggersby without much investment, and that's just excellent for an offensive Pokemon. Mega Aerodactyl is dominating the metagame right now, and I think this move should be made to reflect that.
 
Two newcomer questions:

1. What sort of utility does Sableye have? Why is so high up? Does it have to mega-evolve? This is one question more or less.

2. Shouldn't Chansey and Blissey be in the highest tier because of Imposter? Is there an unwritten rule to ban the combination or what? Ctrl + F'd the whole topic and didn't find a single mention of this.
 
Two newcomer questions:

1. What sort of utility does Sableye have? Why is so high up? Does it have to mega-evolve? This is one question more or less.
Sableye is in S Rank thanks to its excellent ability to halt set up sweepers and shuffle things around. Picking from Topsy-Turvy to block set up sweepers, Dark Void to cripple anything it would like, and Parting Shot to keep momentum going is what makes Sableye so good. On top of this, it has Recover so it's not going to go down super easily. Mega Sableye is good, but it's not the reason Sableye in its base form is S Rank. So, to summarize: no to Mega, it's high up for utility purposes and shuffling.

2. Shouldn't Chansey and Blissey be in the highest tier because of Imposter? Is there an unwritten rule to ban the combination or what? Ctrl + F'd the whole topic and didn't find a single mention of this.
Chansey and Blissey are good, yes, and Chansey is usually better than Blissey, but Imposter is not available for them. Perhaps you mean Transform? Transform Chansey is really good, but it's halted by powerful attackers and / or Substitute. After you've been playing for a bit, Chansey just doesn't become as overwhelming as you'd naturally assume. There's no ban on this combination because it can be stopped; however, it is an excellent strategy.

Welcome to STABmons n_n.
 
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