NU Armaldo [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

[boltsandbombers]

WhinoTheRhino Everything that has even slight viability or relevance in NU will eventually get an analysis, so don't worry about that aspect.

blast edit: all fully evolved mons as well

Really? 0.o

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Ah, I forgot that NU gives all mons analysis, since we're the bottom tier (although not anymore?). Anyways, thanks for the heads up!

-Cleaned up the overview, eliminating unneeded information in some areas and being more detailed in others

 

[marilli]

First off: we neeed some kind of coverage against steelix on the main set. It's clear that a Spinner that loses to, and gives a completely free switch to, all the SR users in the tier defeats the purpose of being a spinner in the first place. I feel that X-Scissor is a more expendable coverage, and you can instead opt for Earthquake (hits Camerupt) or Low Kick (hits fatties, and Steelix even harder)

252+ Atk Armaldo Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 152-180 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- before Mega Evolution
252+ Atk Armaldo Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 134-158 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is great damage to a big metagame threat that would otherwise get completely free turns to switch in and take potshots.

Also I know people are gonna laugh but I honestly think AV isn't that bad of an item choice on the main set if it is going to be 3 attacks + rapid spin. Yes, SD set doesn't want AV, and neither does SR sets. But if you have 3 attacks + rapid spin, with max attack Adamant slow bulky attacker, you don't want any of the damage boosting items. LO, CB, Plate is bad in these types of sets, so the situation here is that you're kind of forced into lefties even though it's not particularly synergetic to the set. AV lets you tank attacks that you shouldn't, allowing you to get a hard hit or spin off. Armaldo is bulky, but 6% isn't always something that will come relevant. Unless the damage calcs against the more relevant physical threats turn out that lefties actually turns 2hkos into 3hkos, lefties isn't any better than AV.

Of course losing the option to SR sucks, so if SR + Spin is the main set then sure, Leftovers it is, but if it isn't (and it's hard to get both Spin + SR as Armaldo) then AV isn't actually that terrible. It's not like SD is an integral part of Armaldo's success, so only thing you lose out is SR.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Wow, using Low Kick to get Steelix is smart! Totally missed that one. And with your explanation, I'm inclined to agree on the AV stuff. Armaldo gets very few free turns to setup Swords Dance, and likewise with Stealth Rock. And besides, I think we can put SD and SR in the main set along with AV, and just explain how item choice affects the moveset in usage tips. I'll do some testing with Low Kick and EQ to get a feel for them, but I'm definitely putting them in the analysis now. If anyone has more input, specifically on AV (as I'm unsure what to do with AV), then please post.

 

[Punchshroom]

Ugh, I just don't know what to do with this thing. It would be more notable for its ability to handle Garbodor if it weren't for the fact that Sandslash exists, so Armaldo is hard pressed to find something it isn't hopelessly outclassed at (these can be noted in Overview as well btw). In any case, the ability to at least fare well against Garbodor is reason enough to prioritize the set to have a favorable matchup with it.

Rapid Spin
########
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: X-Scissor / Rock Blast
move 4: Earthquake / Stealth Rock
ability: Battle Armor
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
nature: Adamant

For starters, I feel Low Kick is being overrated; sure Low Kick scores a stronger hit on Mega Steelix (and Hariyama), but it still doesn't 2HKO while Earthquake already lands the 3HKO on both of them anyway, plus it deals more significant damage to the likes of Mega Camerupt and especially Garbodor since it doesn't make contact, which brings me to my next point...

Garbodor is the matchup where Leftovers would be significantly more useful than AV, otherwise Armaldo can have a tougher time keeping up, especially given its hazard weakness as it is. Assault Vest may help Armaldo spin better against most faster opponents, but considering the amount of damage it takes from hazards even that can be a struggle and thus is inconsistent when compared to Leftovers, which helps Armaldo in one of its very few favorable matchups in the tier and is a common Pokemon at that. Assault Vest can still be mentioned in Set Details probably since the sole advantage Armaldo has over Sandslash is less special weaknesses, but mention it in the context that it simply doesn't have much else going for it :[

X-Scissor is not a bad option to slash alongside Rock Blast, or even before it imo. Rock Blast doesn't feel very essential at all to Armaldo in my experiences as it is mainly used as a sort of 'tech move', for things like Scyther or Sub Vivillon, rather than a legitimate attacking option. X-Scissor would make for a better STAB option to throw out due to more consistent damage output and it at least doesn't suck against a majority of Stealth Rock users like Rock Blast would (they either resist Rock or are weak to Bug). Also it can be used to check Malamar if need be.

 

[marilli]

And besides, I think we can put SD and SR in the main set along with AV, and just explain how item choice affects the moveset in usage tips.

Let me clarify, I think SD shouldn't be on the main set. You need Rapid Spin on Armaldo, otherwise that defeats the purpose of using him. You need Knock Off for quick OHKO on Ghost-types. You need EQ or something like that to break your main defensive checks, and you're left with no STAB. Unless someone else on the QC would really like to disagree, SD isn't getting on the main set.

Yes, the main disadvantage AV over Leftovers is that it doesn't help against things that Armaldo ~ideally~ should be facing: physical attackers such as Kangaskhan, Tauros, Garbodor, etc. Armaldo has the Normal resistance without being weak to ground or fighting, which is exactly what he should aim to do because that actually gives him a better matchup than Kabutops would. If you are weak to normal-type attackers like Kangaskhan, but need spin support, Armaldo is better than Kabutops, who gets KOed by Fighting / Ground coverage these Pokemon carry. This is the main advantage you should mention Armaldo has over Kabutops, not his marginally higher Attack stat. I know you mention the Kangaskhan 2 lines under, but you said that the attack increase over Kabutops is its main draw which isn't quite true

You say Armaldo beats all relevant spinblockers, but isn't true for Gourgeist-XL which takes a big dump all over him. Just mention it does hefty damage to offensive spinblockers. Even the initial Knock Off damage is only a 3hko, which gets worse with no item, then with the burn.

Team options need to be more in depth as well. For instance you could name specific Pokemon that commonly use Sash or Sturdy, such as Jynx and Sawk.

Sorry for overloading ya but i know you've spent a long time on it so I want to get it checked and ready to be written asap

 

[Ares]

While a straight up SD set can be threatening in times, I think it is severely outclassed by a ton of other mons. So leave it as mention in oo for now, seeing as armaldo already has 4MSS for what it wants to put on the first set.

I think Aqua Tail is good enough for a mention in moves as it allows you to hit Ground-types (which are the majority of rock setters) that you would other wise be hard walled by.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Aqua Tail specifically hits Mega Camerupt and Rhydon, and other bulky Grounds like sandslash.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

So many posts in such a short period! I'll be working on incorporating all of this new information into the analysis. :)

Edit: Should Low Kick be in Moves or OO? I'm leaning towards OO I think.

 

[ryan]

imo moves should be

name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Rock Blast
move 4: Aqua Tail / Earthquake

Armaldo sucks. Giving it Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin is going to make it suck much more. It is already cramped for moveslots, and putting on the pressure of setting up hazards and removing them is terrible. It's not bad on Prinplup because it's bulky as fuck, has good defensive typing, and isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

X-Scissor for Malamar and Low Kick for Mega Steelix are worth mentioning in moves. Low Kick kind of sucks in NU outside of hitting Mega Steelix, so I really don't think it's worth using over Aqua Tail or Earthquake. Stealth Rock is worth mentioning in Other Options, but it's not good enough on Armaldo to warrant being mentioned anywhere else.

 

[Punchshroom]

imo moves should be

name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Rock Blast
move 4: Aqua Tail / Earthquake

Armaldo sucks. Giving it Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin is going to make it suck much more. It is already cramped for moveslots, and putting on the pressure of setting up hazards and removing them is terrible. It's not bad on Prinplup because it's bulky as fuck, has good defensive typing, and isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

X-Scissor for Malamar and Low Kick for Mega Steelix are worth mentioning in moves. Low Kick kind of sucks in NU outside of hitting Mega Steelix, so I really don't think it's worth using over Aqua Tail or Earthquake. Stealth Rock is worth mentioning in Other Options, but it's not good enough on Armaldo to warrant being mentioned anywhere else.

Again, I don't see what is so amazingly good about Rock Blast that it warrants a mandatory moveslot. Can't X-Scissor be slashed alongside it at least, or even before? Or maybe slash the moves in slots 3 and 4 such as way that it optimizes neutral coverage, like X-Scissor / Aqua Tail (Bug + Water) and Rock Blast / Earthquake (Rock + Ground).

 

[CanadianWifier]

Again, I don't see what is so amazingly good about Rock Blast that it warrants a mandatory moveslot. Can't X-Scissor be slashed alongside it at least, or even before? Or maybe slash the moves in slots 3 and 4 such as way that it optimizes neutral coverage, like X-Scissor / Aqua Tail (Bug + Water) and Rock Blast / Earthquake (Rock + Ground).

Rock Blast prevents SubBU Braviary from setting up on you, though rip

 

[ryan]

Again, I don't see what is so amazingly good about Rock Blast that it warrants a mandatory moveslot. Can't X-Scissor be slashed alongside it at least, or even before? Or maybe slash the moves in slots 3 and 4 such as way that it optimizes neutral coverage, like X-Scissor / Aqua Tail (Bug + Water) and Rock Blast / Earthquake (Rock + Ground).

I just think Rock STAB is better than Bug STAB. I'm not opposed to slashing X-Scissor, but I don't think it's ideal.

 

[CanadianWifier]

with malamar running around everywhere, the more bug moves you have on a team the better. Slashing is cool, strong mention in moves if not.

 

[Punchshroom]

I just think Rock STAB is better than Bug STAB. I'm not opposed to slashing X-Scissor, but I don't think it's ideal.

In Armaldo's case, Rock STAB just gives it worse / less than ideal matchups with most SR setters. I also think Earthquake is more worthwhile than Aqua Tail, since EQ already deals good damage on Aqua Tail targets, and its most notable benefit being handling Garbo with little trouble.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Well, Armaldo dropped to PU where he belongs :). AND FRICKIN KABUTOPS ROSE TO RU I'M HAPPY FOR ARMALDO BUT PISSED THAT I HAVE TO REWRITE STUFF. Btw, I won't be able to update this for a couple days, as Apex 2015 had me busy last weekend and homework has flared up. Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[Blast]

Armaldo is PU now so does it even need an analysis anymore? No more Kabutops is good for it but it still has to deal with the fact that it's shit lol

 

[Ares]

I agree, with the addition of Claydol I see no reason to use a slow-weak to rocks Rapid spinner over either Claydol or Cryogonal.

Sorry for the time spent WhinoTheRhino but QC Reject 1/3

 

[ryan]

kabutops is gone, nothing is outright better than armaldo and it beats kangaskhan, don't reject it

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

No... I thought even trash pokes get an analysis in NU?

 

[CanadianWifier]

No... I thought even trash pokes get an analysis in NU?

not anymore

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Well damn. Thanks for the heads up, I usually just go straight to this page instead of looking at the NU analyses page so I missed that. I really hope Armaldo doesn't get rejected, I've been working on him for pretty much 6 months now. (I think this analysis is the oldest currently on the forum lol)

-Cleaning up the analysis, removing mentions of Kabutops
-is Armaldo's good matchup with Garbodor worth mentioning in the overview or only in the set?
-There was somewhat of a consensus that X-scissor is more useful than Rock Blast? So I will slash X-scissor first, if anyone objects please say.
-Does SR deserve to be in moves? I moved it to OO, again, if that's incorrect please say so.
-Should AV be slashed, mentioned in the set, or in OO? It's currently in the set but I am unsure.
-Now that Kabutops is gone, could OO such as Life Orb / Swift Swim maybe have any more use?

 

[Punchshroom]

Alright, if u really want to revamp:

Overview
########

• Access to Rapid Spin
• Mostly outclassed by Sandslash in any defensive role, and Crustle in any setup role. Thus, Armaldo should focus on a tanking (or offensive utility?) role, dishing out strong hits while still supporting with Rapid Spin.
• Weak to Stealth Rock, which severely hampers Armaldo's ability to spin or do any other job
• Semi-unique typing that is completely useless and grants Armaldo common weaknesses (mention Water and Rock-type) and two mostly useless resistances in Normal and Poison. (Mention Armaldo's good matchup with Garbodor?)
• Armaldo's niche in NU is his ability to check Normal-types and spin easily against them. Armaldo specifically checks Kangaskhan well.
• With Knock Off, Armaldo can deal significant damage to offensive spinblockers, removing their item at the same time

- Defensive role sounds vague as it implies Sandslash (and Armaldo) would be walling stuff, when that is not their primary role. Mention that Sandslash, as well as Claydol, have greater resistance to entry hazards which grant them better / more chances to spin.
- Actually don't mention Armaldo's matchup against Garbodor, because if people are interested in that then Sandslash and especially Claydol would be better picks for them.
- This is the big change. Now that Kabutops is gone, Armaldo now has a new niche: a place on Rain teams as an offensive spinner.

Which brings us to...

Rain Offensive Spinner (whatever you can probably name this better than me)
########
name: (name it yourself :P)
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Aqua Tail
move 4: Knock Off / Stone Edge
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Rain Armaldo can spin and tank through Kangaskhan / Kecleon (bothersome threats for fellow Rain sweepers) in the midst of sweeping the foe. Jolly allows Armaldo to outspeed up to Swellow and Adamant Scarf Sawk, which gives Armaldo good sweeping ability in its own right aside from being a spinner. Rain boosted LO Aqua Tail 2HKOes Mega Steelix and smashes the frailer spinblockers in Mismagius and Rotom, not to mention it has decent coverage with X-Scissor (and is stronger than X-Scissor in the Rain!). Knock Off is pretty much only for Gourgeist at this point, but Geist can be put in a bind since Synthesis is nerfed by the Rain. Stone Edge is merely for extra STAB at this point, which can hit Mantine / Pelipper which otherwise walls both STABs and be a problem for Rain in general. The reason I didn't slash Stone Edge alongside X-Scissor is because Rock / Water / Dark coverage is stopped by Virizion which Rain hates giving free turns to, and said coverage turns Armaldo from a potential Virizion check into just more fodder :[

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Yes! Screw you Kabutops, Armaldo has a role that isn't outclassed anymore! Will update soon.

 

[Ares]

Taking back my reject, as having a decent option on rain for hazard removal seems like a decent enough niche.