Battle Maison Discussion & Records

I like it.

4 Speed EVs on Jellicient would allow it to outspeed the 80 Speed tier and avoid ties:

80 - Abomasnow (1,2), Empoleon (1,2,4), Lapras (2,3,4), Magnezone (1,3,4), Swampert (2,3,4), ALL Sylveon, Wailord (3,4), ALL Weezing, ALL Whiscash

Putting 4 EVs in SDef would result in an even number, giving an extra point from Assault Vest. A physically focused spread could also be a consideration. Movepool-wise, Ice Beam would give better coverage than Dazzling Gleam, which is redundant with Sylveon on the team.

252 HP and no Speed on Sylveon looks questionable - maxing Speed won't make it a speed demon, but it would be a lot less slow with 112 Speed:

111 - Clawitzer 4
110 - Lilligant (2,3), Porygon-Z 3, Rampardos 2, Roserade (1,4)
108 - ALL Excadrill, Regigigas 2 after Slow Start
106 - Armaldo 2, Golem 3, Marowak (3,4)
105 - Articuno (1,2), Cresselia (1,2,3), Kingdra 2, Nidoking 1, Pinsir 3, Suicune (1,2,3)
104 - Gourgeist (1,3,4)
103 - Magmortar 1, Darmanitan 3
102 - Tangrowth 2, Vileplume (1,4)
101 - Gyarados 4, Milotic (1,3,4)
100 - Altaria (1,4), Braviary 1, Chandelure (3,4), Dragonite (1,3), Drifblim 1, Gallade 3, ALL Goodra, Mamoswine (3,4), Mandibuzz (3,4), ALL Meganium, Regice 2, Shiftry (3,4), Togekiss 1, Venusaur (1,4)
99 - Poliwrath 2, ALL Vanilluxe
98 - Blastoise (3,4), Feraligatr (1,3)
97 - Golem 2, Granbull (3,4), Heatran (1,2,3)
96 - Exeggutor 1, Nidoqueen (2,3,4)
95 - Absol (1,2), ALL Claydol, Florges (3,4), Gothitelle 1
94 - Seismitoad 1, Heracross 1, Nidoking 2
93 - Skuntank 4
92 - Slurpuff (1,3), Rhyperior 2
91 - Tyrantrum (2,3)
90 - Bisharp (1,2,4), Breloom 4, Dewgong (1,3,4), Honchkrow (3,4), Ludicolo (1,2,3), ALL Luxray, Mamoswine 2, Metagross (3,4), Milotic 2, Politoed (3,4), Poliwrath (1,3,4), ALL Porygon2, Samurott (1,3,4), Skarmory 4, Togekiss 2, Venusaur 2
88 - Barbaracle (2,3,4), Blastoise (1,2), Exploud (1,2,3), Gogoat 1
87 - Lanturn (2,3,4)
86 - Nidoqueen 1, Mr. Mime 3
85 - Emboar (1,3), Flareon (1,2,4), Florges (1,2), ALL Glaceon, Gothitelle (2,3,4), Scizor (2,4), ALL Umbreon, Vaporeon (2,3,4), ALL Walrein

Additionally, max Speed Adamant Excadrill hits 210 Speed with Scarf - it could be cut to 135 Speed (212 EVs) to hit 202 Speed with Scarf without losing out on anything.

I like the sound of Excadrill/Salamence/Jellicent. Sylveon I'm less convinced of, but I've no idea what to use in its place, either - maybe Togekiss, Zapdos, Thundurus or Talonflame?
This team could obviously be improved, but the problem is that I don't build my Mons for Maison, I build them for battling online and against my friends. I actually thought of putting 44 Speed EVs on Jellicent and Sylveon so that they'd outspeed Walrein 4 and give it fewer attempts for OHKO hax, but that wouldn't do them any good outside of Maison so I scrapped the idea. I play Maison too casually and thus can't reach really high streaks, although I sure as hell love trying and improving my teams.

Ice Beam seems like a good improvement for Jellicent, but I don't like the idea of physically defensive spread. I like Jellicent's ability to survive Thunderbolts and Shadow Balls, and I don't remember there being any instance where I wished it had more physical bulk.

When it comes to Sylveon, I have no intention of scrapping it. It was originally a filler as I had absolutely no idea what to have as my fourth Pokemon, but Sylveon has performed really, REALLY well and I honestly can't think of anything that would be better for the team. Specs Hyper Voice is a complete nuke and has great coverage, and Sylveon in general gives me a better matchup against Dragons, although Jellicent's Ice Beam would do that too. Togekiss, Zapdos, and Thundurus would increase my team's weakness against Rock and Ice and I tried to avoid overlapping weaknesses as much as possible.
 

cant say

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I was finally able to break my previous record in Doubles but I'm still pretty disappointed as I was hoping I could do better and I really like this team. 228 victories, hopefully I can break it some day.

I call this strategy the "Land and Sky Offense", as it focuses on spamming Earthquake and Aerilate Hyper Voice. All of the types that resist Flying are weak to Ground and two of the three types that resist Ground are weak to Flying, so they cover each others pretty well. Earthquake is physical, Hyper Voice is special, and they're both reliable and powerful spread moves, so the strategy is quite effective. This team also has the so called "fantasy core" (Steel/Dragon/Fairy), although that wasn't my intention originally. Anyway, here's the team:


Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Drill Run

I didn't know I could love an Ability this much. I used to think that Sand Rush Excadrill is the shit, but I was wrong. Mold Breaker is THE shit. There's no better feeling in this world than the one you get after you OHKO a Gengar with Earthquake. It's literally better than sex. Other important targets include Eelektross and Latios, who are both 2HKO'd by Earthquake. The greatest thing is that the enemy AI does not understand Mold Breaker, so it keeps switching Pokemon like Mismagius into my Earthquakes, expecting the Pokemon to be immune to the hit. I've had very enjoyable matches against trainers that lead with Gengar AND Mismagius, as if their Levitates meant something. Excadrill is awesome, I love it.


Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate / Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

I know most people prefer physical Salamence, but I went for special here. Intimidate instantly cripples physical attackers and special moveset means that Salamence doesn't mind opposing Intimidate or burn. No strategy required here, just click Hyper Voice and watch as things die. Flamethrower is there for Steel-types, but I used it like five times during those 229 battles. Protect is necessary to safely get the Speed boost and beat things like Virizion 1 and 3, both of which outspeed Mence during the turn of Mega Evolution and deal nasty damage with Stone Edge. Protect also causes the AI to waste turns using Ice Beam, allowing my leads to safely defeat bulkier targets that fall to EQ + EQ + HV.
Oh man, this was gonna be my main core for my doubles run! It was bound to be used before I got around to it though as I've been super busy lately :( Really glad to see it work so well though. Maybe I'll go to my backup plan; Mega Pidgeot + [undecided Earthquake spammer] haha
 
So in between runs of Triples loveliness I amassed a streak of 1,269 in singles:



Don't mind the omega ruby milk chocolate truffle and the alpha sapphire dark chocolate truffle, they'll be consumed when the time is right.

Team, as a reminder:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite ** Melbourne: Return/Power-Up Punch/Sucker Punch/Earthquake, Adamant, Scrappy -> Parental Bond, 252Atk/4SpD/252Spe
Suicune @ Leftovers ** Holy Water: Scald/Icy Wind/Calm Mind/Rest, Bold, Pressure, 196HP/252Def/60Spe
Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb ** pH Balance: Earthquake/Toxic/Substitute/Protect, Careful, Poison Heal, 236HP/4Atk/12Def/252SpD/4Spe

But a funny thing happened when I was driving to Best Buy on Sunday September 14 (coincidentally to purchase that TV you see in the above pic):

Battle 1,268: #RP7W-WWWW-WWWA-GBCH

I was met with some random Hex Maniac who led with Drifblim. Not a threat by any means—Drifblim4 can only threaten me with TB paralysis (the move itself does like 22%) or long Hypnosis-induced sleep (during which I can't be paralyzed) along with Aftermath. I can't Mega Evolve because I want to keep Scrappy in effect. Can only get to +1 but that doesn't really matter, certainty not against a Medicham that's OHKOed by even +0 Return.

What does matter is Medicham using HJK on Kanga right after I Mega Evolve and select Return.

Bewildered (but not nearly enough to lose control of my car!), I realized I'd been tricked into thinking this was a regular Hex Maniac. In actuality, I had never been threatened by or tipped off about a Hex Maniac that could use Set 3 pokes, believe it or not. Never had any reason to distinguish them from each other like Veterans or Ace Trainers, with this team or Suizorus, as Haxorus and Kanga's opening gambits against Hex Maniacs are virtually undisturbed.

Anyway, I knew it was the 145 speed Jolly Medicham that outspeeds Kanga pre-ME (142). Kanga always outspeeds and OHKOs lead Medicham4, which is why I didn't Sucker Punch, a move that would have won me this battle guaranteed as at +1 it does 102% min:

+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 138-163 (102.2 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(138, 139, 141, 142, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 163)

Sad, but whatever. Sad in that if I had any doubt it was Medicham4, I should have used Sucker Punch, but I'm weirdly principled in that I'm not going to use a move I don't need to. Using Sucker Punch on Medicham4 implies that I need Sucker Punch to kill it, and I "don't want the game thinking I don't totally have it owned with Return". Like, using Sucker Punch is a sign of weakness, basically. Cute principles, huh?

Anyway, my first instinct was to switchstall Medicham out of Ice Punch PP, and after realizing that going to Suicune and having it miss Icy Wind was likely a losing proposition:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 91-108 (45.5 - 54%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
(91, 91, 93, 94, 96, 96, 97, 99, 99, 100, 102, 103, 103, 105, 106, 108)

So I went to Gliscor first. As it turns out, the freeze it immediately incurred on Suicune proved to be crucial, as I wanted to be able to use Icy Wind immediately, not having to use Scald first. Perhaps this meant that I should have chanced Icy Wind upfront, since Suicune was going to have to take five Ice Punches anyway if my strategy was to switchstall (which would result in a freeze 41% of the time since Suicune would have to take five of them after Pressure and Gliscor Protects), but missing Icy Wind would have all but guaranteed a loss.

After the Turn 5 freeze, I switchstalled, throwing Protect in there after every Gliscor switch in. On turn 17, I switched my frozen Suicune into Medicham's final Ice Punch (and get back to 163HP with Lefties), meaning that on Turn 20 Gliscor would have the option of staying in after switching in and Protecting. Medicham used HJK on Turn 18, and again on Turn 19 as I protected, halving Cham's HP while Gliscor's went up to 95. The second HJK was interesting for a number of reasons:

1) ZH is stronger
2) Cune may have to switch into an HJK if Cham is opting to use HJK "for no reason"
3) Cham is now in kill range of EQ + Scald

My point was going to be that switching in Cune would have been very risky, and that Double Protecting could possibly kill Cham for me, but actually, calcing it now, this is ultra sad:

4 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 69-82 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(69, 70, 70, 72, 72, 73, 75, 75, 76, 76, 78, 78, 79, 79, 81, 82)

This oversight is a direct consequence of...I don't even know, lol. Probably "not enough fucks given", because by this time I was parked and had access to the Showdown calculator on my phone, but I just felt there was no way Gliscor did 50% to Medicham here with EQ. I also strongly felt that Cham would use HJK again, and knew that I wouldn't die even if the Protect coinflip didn't go my way. So of my five options, I knew I couldn't switch to Suicune, and Subbing or using Toxic were even worse ideas. I knew I couldn't *lose* if Protect failed cause I'd just use it again then switch Suicune into a likely ZH, but that's still bad form. So it used ZH as Protect failed on Turn 20 (my Double Protect success rate is like 20%), and Cham used ZH to take Gliscor to 17HP, which went back up to 61HP after I Protected worry-free (well, immediate–worry-free, since there's a chance I actually lose for the first time lol). Switched Cune into ZH, was at 117 HP after Lefties.

So of course it CHed Cune with HJK (its penultimate one, not that it mattered too much). In hindsight the CH only 35% mattered because I needed to CH or Burn with my freeze-thawing Scald to change how the rest of the battle played out. After Protecting on Turn 24 I EQed, taking a...Bullet Punch. Weird because it had ZH and HJK PP left, and this would give me a bit of a chance to beat poke 3 if I could just get a Toxic in. Poke 3 turned out to be Slowbro, which could either be:

3 | Slowbro | Bold | Leftovers | Psychic | Surf | Slack Off | Amnesia | HP/Def
4 | Slowbro | Quiet | Leftovers | Psychic | Surf | Blizzard | Trick Room | HP/Def

Essentially identical for my purposes. I really didn't want to be naked and have it use Trick Room if it happened to be Slowbro4, so I used Sub. Probably a mistake here too, since I'm in KO range of Blizzard if it IS Slowbro 4, and I'm in dire need of HP and have a drawback-free Protect at my disposal. I do Sub on this Turn 26 , and it uses Surf, meaning it's probably Slowbro3 but I can't be too sure. I use the only move I can in Protect, hoping it doesn't TR...and it uses Surf again. More confident that it's Slowbro3, I'm a tad more hopeful, but I'm also fully aware of how much Sub/Protect PP I have. I Protect on Turn 31 as it Surfs, and am back at 75 HP, and I close my DS to think of whether I'll have any Sub/Protect PP left when I'm done stalling. I have four Protect PP left and 13 Subs, so...maybe, but this is looking bad. I reopen my DS, and pick Protect by mistake because it was pretty bright and I couldn't see the last move I chose. Obviously that little misclick shouldn't be rewarded, and it fails, and my streak is washed away by a final Surf.

At the time, I didn't know how big the Turn 20 "not EQing" mistake was, or realize that it didn't matter that much that Medicham CHed Cune with HJK (it did have 25% luck on its side to be both Pure Power and Medicham3, of course). I wanted to know if I would have won despite all this horseshit if I hadn't misclicked. Here's my notes.

so if i hadnt misclicked, i have four protect pp left and 13 sub pp

32. sub #4/surf #7
33. protect #13/surf #8 (74 hp)
34. sub #5/surf #9
35. protect #14/surf #10 (73 hp)
36. sub #5/surf #11
37. protect #14/surf #12 (72 hp)
38. sub #6/surf #13
39. protect #15/surf #14 (71 hp)
40. sub #7/surf #15
41. protect #16/surf #15 (0pp, 70hp)

i prob still die because even if i hit with toxic slowbro leaves me with 38-47 hp and the next psychic prob kills. if i had ONE more protect pp i would probably have won without the misclick lol

0 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 236 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 45-54 (25 - 30%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
(45, 45, 46, 46, 48, 48, 48, 49, 49, 49, 51, 51, 51, 52, 52, 54)


One more Protect PP. As in, why did you Double Protect on Medicham on Turn 20 lol. I would still have needed at least 2 more Protect PP to get past Slowbro with Toxic because of Leftovers, so I guess I don't feel too bad about it.

-----

So bad hax and questionable play abound, the saddest part still being "just use Sucker Punch". Anyway, in my opinion, my reluctance to share the date of my loss with you all would ordinarily have been irresponsible for would-be chasers of the Singles crown, and an abuse of the exceptional * by my streak's number. I too would take considerable issue with this...if I hadn't made it back up to exactly 800 in less than a week. Some of you may disagree with this line of thinking, and I don't blame you. I actually almost posted my true feelings when I got back to 800 (with proof pics of 1,267 and 800*), which would have been something along the lines of "ok i lost at 1,268 last week but i'm back at 800, StarKO or VaporeonIce or whoever, if you're around there and want to take a shot at 1,268 you're welcome to but my loss really ticked me off and i can assure you that 1,267 may as well be a moving target." I can't be any more candid than that—if I had actually posted, it would have supremely motivated me out of pride to get to 1,267 even faster than I did. I hope you all can see and understand that!

At the end of the day, I can't prove that I didn't lose a bunch of times at 300 and 700 and 450 or whatever (or can't prove it, as I didn't take a timestamped picture of when I got to 800). I'm pretty sure I have two separate pictures of "Battle 1,001! Are you ready?" but those doesn't really prove anything (I could still have lost at 300 a bunch of times).

I like to think I would have posted about the ridiculous hax I would have encountered at the Battle 300s and 700s and 450s that I would be covering up by "pretending" I really am essentially over 2600-0 with this team. I really do. I probably *would have* if the battles had been sufficiently outlandish, feeling that you all would understand my plight in trying to get back to 1,268. There was simply no such plight, though, because this team is broken. I mean, who loses at 1,268 and just runs it back up to 800 in a week then stops to entertain a triples team he'd been theorymonning since around battle 500, the point where he realized that "lol, the maison is easy and this team is broken"? Someone with a broken team, that's who.

Anyway, kind of like my comment about recognition, perhaps I am assuming that more of you guys would care about the prospect of a bunch of covered up losses en route to surpassing a record that wasn't as "ongoing" as my silence would have had you believe than actually do care. When I got back to 800, I actually let out a chuckle irl. That chuckle was half miffed cockiness ("look how fast I made it back to 800, this is like fifth place already, fuck you Anastasia, that was a shitty fluke") and half incredulity ("sheesh, I genuinely can't believe how easy it was for this team to just waltz back up to 800, it's almost embarrassing how broken this team is").

So the final tally by my name should read 1,267 and an asterisk at 1,268, if you don't feel I've abused that privilege, lol.
Confirming Kangaskhan's weakness to getting really unlucky when playing non-standard trainers while driving.

I wanted to see how broken the archetype of Mega Kanga + some combination of status absorbing and PP stall was, so I tried to duplicate a team I saw described on a Japanese site but never saw in action. It has the Kangaskhan and Gliscor you all know and love, and since ain't nobody got time to soft reset for a Suicune, this fearsome, ferocious beast was in its place.

Chansey @ Eviolite
- Natural Cure
- Bold, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe
- Substitute
- Minimize
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

At first glance, this seems like a crazy "wtf how can you rely on hax in the Maison" set but Chansey is a PP staller first and an attacker second. Pretty much everything you'd switch Suicune in against when using Kangliscune also warrants going to Chansey with this team. Here's a couple random neutral hits for comparison:

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 57-67 (28.5 - 33.5%)
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 111-132 (31 - 36.9%)

252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 84-100 (42 - 50%)
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 62-74 (17.3 - 20.7%)

Suicune's got Pressure, Leftovers, and the ability to be more threatening when set up. Chansey's got more breathing room against crits and secondary effects, especially those coming from special attackers, as well as the ability to be obtained much more easily - hell, it doesn't even need 5 IVs! It could pull off "sweeps" with Seismic Toss surprisingly frequently thanks to the Maison's litany of unremarkable Pokemon that can't break a Chansey's Substitute. Almost more valuable were the "semi-sweeps" it could pull off where it took care of a lead like Togekiss I didn't really want to switch Kanga or Gliscor back in against and then weakened the 2nd Pokemon with Seismic Toss before intentionally fainting so Kanga could come in and get to +2 for free.

On my first try using this team, I lost battle #666 haha: Y2GG-WWWW-WWX4-VXRL

Recap: Was facing Ace Trainer Bunny who led with a Gardevoir. Switched to Chansey and it was Gardevoir 4. Set up 3 Minimizes and a Sub and KOed Gardevoir while thinking "cool, none of these specially defensive Pokemon can handle Chansey." Next thing out was Florges 4. Final mon was Gyarados, the one problem Pokemon on her roster. I switched to Kangaskhan as it Dragon Danced. The next turn, it survived Return with <10 HP as it Dragon Danced again. I thought I was dealing with Gyarados 4 at this point, which was bad because +1 Gyarados outspeeding the turn before should have ruled it out, but I selected Return for fear of Gyarados using Rest and setting up another DD since +2 Gyarados 4 doesn't KO Kangaskhan with Aqua Tail (incidentally,+2 Gyarados 2 and 3 cannot KO with Waterfall either). Unfortunately, it ended up being Gyarados 1, which KOed Kangaskhan with Aqua Tail, got a Moxie Boost (which we now know is definitely a 1 in 3 rather than a 1 in 2 chance), and landed a necessary (maxes out at 90% otherwise) critical hit to prevent Chansey from finishing it off with Seismic Toss. I suppose Gliscor could have landed a last-ditch Toxic at the end if Aqua Tail missed, but with the luck I've run into you know that's not going to happen.

That battle seems to be another piece confirming that the AI uses a version of Forewarn modified to include type effectiveness as a heuristic for what comes out 2nd, as Florges (strongest move - either Petal Dance or Moonblast depending on whether STAB is considered, Sp. Atk stat of 180) came in before Gyarados (90 BP STAB Aqua Tail, Attack stat of 182) against a Pokemon with twice as much Special Defense as Defense.

Other than this battle, everything was pretty boring. I honestly don't think this team even had any 1-0 victories aside from times I was ahead 2-1 and allowed whatever was out to get Destiny Bonded or Perish trapped to get the battle over with a few seconds sooner. That's much less a "I did so awesome with this team" statement than wishing I could have applied the relatively "normal" luck from this streak, such as avoiding a bad run-in against shakier lead matchups like Walrein or a well-disguised Zoroark or even running into a Gyarados on one of the rare occasions Kangaskhan had either fainted or was on the bench at low health, to one of the times I was using the Glalie team and lost to even more absurd circumstances 100+ battles sooner.

There were a couple times against Veterans I got nervous - once, I switched Gliscor in against Zapdos and Heat Wave burned it. Luckily, it was a Zapdos 2 with Pressure so Chansey PP stalled it out of attacks and Kangaskhan was able to come in and connect with PuP at least 3 times without getting paralyzed. The other time, Kangaskhan got frozen by an Articuno 2's first turn Ice Beam and stayed frozen until fainting. I went to stall with Gliscor, and for whatever reason Articuno wasted the rest of its Sheer Cold PP before using Ice Shard more than once or twice. From there, Chansey was able to set up and handle the remaining two - Regice 1 was one of them because I remember Chansey's based 4 Speed EVs allowing it to set up another Substitute before Regice used Toxic, and the other one was some other special attacker that got Seismic Tossed.
 
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Oh man, this was gonna be my main core for my doubles run! It was bound to be used before I got around to it though as I've been super busy lately :( Really glad to see it work so well though. Maybe I'll go to my backup plan; Mega Pidgeot + [undecided Earthquake spammer] haha
Try it man, it's a really fun team to use. Hopefully you can do better than me. I personally wouldn't use M-Pidgeot in Maison as you'd face Blizzard, Head Smash, Stone Edge, Thunder, and OHKO spam probably in every match. Sounds a bit risky to me.
 

cant say

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Try it man, it's a really fun team to use. Hopefully you can do better than me. I personally wouldn't use M-Pidgeot in Maison as you'd face Blizzard, Head Smash, Stone Edge, Thunder, and OHKO spam probably in every match. Sounds a bit risky to me.
Oh for my initial streaks I'm just chasing 50 wins for the trophy in each format so I want to try out a few new Megas / gimmicks so streak length isn't an issue, and M-Pidgeot probably isn't viable in any other format so I may as well give it some love :p (mostly coz I went and bred a shiny HP ground one)
 
I need quite a bit of help with my Super singles team here. I had hoped to be able to get 50 wins using Pokemon that could be found in ORAS exclusively. Theorymoning lead me to use a set of Adaptability Crawdunt/DD SubRoost Mega Altaria/Evolite Analytic Magneton. On paper, it looked pretty good. Water/Dark has few resists and Adaptability Crawdaunt just tears through many of the mons in the Maison. his common weaknesses are resisted both by Magneton and normal Altaria, providing easy switch-ins, especially for Fast Electrics and Grass types. Altaria particularly could set up to +6 against many grass types, then wreck face with Pixilate Return, which with Crawdaunt STABS provide perfect neutral coverage. Magneton eats up Electric and Fairy attacks and proceeds to hit hard with Analytic boosted attacks, checking them with a strong flash Cannon

In practice however, i have difficulty getting past 40 wins. Crawdaunt is kind of slow and everybody carries Focus Blast, limiting my switch-ins to Magneton or other coevrage moves, which he struggles to tank with his below-average bulk. Magneton is very bulky against many types but cries if somebody shakes a little bit of dirt underneath its magnets. Electric/Steel checks certain Pokemon, especially Fairies that are SE against Crawdaunt and Altaria, but has terrible coverage offensively and leaves me walled by many Pokemon depending on my coverage moves(which aren't that many as well...) Altaria suffers from 4MSS. sub/Roost/DD/Return is great for boosting and warding off status and crits but the problem then is that M-Altaria is weak to the poisons/steels that it cannot muscle through. I have lost streaks at 40 thrice to Steelix. Coverage move in Either EQ or Flamethrower is nice but then i lose the ability to boost to high heavens and check grass types. I thought of swapping Crawdaunt for Wide Lens Azumarill for more bulk, but he does not have the power to muscle through the Maison as a first poke and leaves me vulnerable if he faints


So i want to limit myself keeping with pokemon that can be found in ORAS. It does not have to be just the Hoenn Dex only though i do kind of want to limit my choice of legendaries to the Lati twins and the Regis. So what options do i have here?I though of swapping Magneton with Electivire, because activating Motor Drive from baiting electric attacks aimed at my Water lead mgiht actually solve his speed issues and he packs EQ to deal with opposing electrice attacks, although what else i am hard pressed to think further. The Water/Fairy/Dark offensive core seems an idea worth continuing although Azumarill, while being able to learn moves of this varaint does have problems with pokemon weak to non-STAB Knock off. (For example, Knock Off fails to KO any TR Setters and Trick Room is almost a given if i do see one pop up.
 

NoCheese

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So i want to limit myself keeping with pokemon that can be found in ORAS. It does not have to be just the Hoenn Dex only though i do kind of want to limit my choice of legendaries to the Lati twins and the Regis. So what options do i have here?I though of swapping Magneton with Electivire, because activating Motor Drive from baiting electric attacks aimed at my Water lead mgiht actually solve his speed issues and he packs EQ to deal with opposing electrice attacks, although what else i am hard pressed to think further. The Water/Fairy/Dark offensive core seems an idea worth continuing although Azumarill, while being able to learn moves of this varaint does have problems with pokemon weak to non-STAB Knock off. (For example, Knock Off fails to KO any TR Setters and Trick Room is almost a given if i do see one pop up.
Well, the classic Dragon / Water / Steel core is typically strong. What about something like Latios / Mega Slowbro / Magneton? Latios is absurdly versatile, and though it lacks the raw power that Mega Mence brings, it gives you an Earthquake immunity, and a semi-offensive, semi-crippler set with Life Orb (or Focus Sash) + Memento set plays very well with Slowbro, since Mega Bro's immunity to critical hits means you can count on the stat drops applying when trying to set up Slowbro after a Memento.

Just muscling through things with Mega Salamence seems reasonable too, though that naturally wouldn't work with Mega Slowbro, so you'd need alternative Water-type support. Of course, this is all just top of the head stuff, but I hope it's of some use.
 
Regarding ORAS-only: A few pages back I discussed my Mega-Salamence/Suicune/Aegislash set. To sum up Adamant Mega-S only needs 1 DD to outspeed and KO most of the Maison with Return/Earthquake, doesn't need max speed EVs to do so (allowing you to dump EVs into HP for greater durability/bigger Roosts), and the AI doesn't regard Salamence as a 'setup' pokemon, as leads with taunt and other abilities never used them - and ALWAYS used Protect if the Poke had it. Suicune was just standard CM Crocune, not hard to do; only took me a day of resetting to get an Outstanding Bold one.

Aegislash is... harder to replace. Ideally, you want something that'll resist Rock, Ice, Electric, and/or Grass; something that draws Earthquake is also good to gain switchins to Sale. Priority is also a good thing to have, as it's something Salamence and Suicune lack.

Metagross, Excadrill (available on one of the islands with Mold Breaker, that reminds me gotta check if island spawned today), Heatran, Cobalion.... Steel's the obvious group to turn to, and Excadrill is the best fit for MSalamence/Suicune of the options. I.... may replace Aegislash myself, paralysis sucks. Damn, if only Excadrill got priority; its defenses are lacklustre and might not survive several normal attacks after Swords Dancing.
 


Well, i just finished a streak of 77 wins with an ORAS-only team of Azumarill/MegaAltaria/Electivire

Azumarill (F) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

Altaria (M) @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 20 Spe
- Roost
- Return
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Electivire (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: x SpA / x SpD
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick


So this team took the good part of an entire weekend and change to set up and achieve this streak. As above, i originally started off with a Crawdaunt/MAltaria and Evolite Analytic Magneton. Water/Dark/Fairy has no resists in the Maison and both M-altaria and Magneton seemed to be able to cover Crawdaunt's Weaknesses. However, Crawdaunt was slow and lacked the bulk to deal with fast pokemon that carried plenty of fighting moves, Altaria needed a little set up and Mono-Fairy is walled by Steel and Poison types who can easily KO back and Magneton, while powerful with a slow Analytic Tbolt and flash Cannon has no offensive presence beyond that is walled by pretty much any Ground Type. HP Ice and Evolite is not enough to save it if the ground so much as shakes

After much thinking, i decided to use Azumarill. It trades speed and the ability to set up for a lot more Bulk and similar Water/Fairy/Dark/Aqua Jet coverage, although the power difference between Huge Power STAB and Adaptability STAB is quite noticeable and Knock Off without STAB fails to KO most TR setters. Having to carry Wide Lens, while allowing me to use a more powerful Aqua Tail, cripples my ability to deal with burns (Flame Body hax is depressingly common) or carry Sitrus

Then as usual with a Water lead, Fast Electrics and Para hax are a huge problem. I could use a Ground type but then of those available in Hoenn, I would be doubling up on either a Grass weakness or opening myself up to a sweep from Water or Ice types. Of the Electrics, another problem i found when using Magneton was that i could not delete opposing ELectrics fast enough and while their Tbolt is a 8HKO, it means that Magneon's defensive ability is weakened, especially with no reliable cover. So Electivire it was, as Elekid can be found in one of the Mirage Mountains. Serving as my Electric immunity, her speed issues are also settled with Motor Drive activating, allowing me to run Adamant and hit hard with EQ and Wild Charge. Ice Punch is for Garchomp, Gliscor and other Grass types, while Low Kick is for those Bulky Steels. i could have used Cross Chop but.... nope. A weakness though is that as a switch in, it cannot do much else and take lots from neutral non-Electric hits. Wild charge and Life Orb does no favours to its Longevity either. furthermore, it needs Life Orb to score Certain KOs against other Pokemon with Electric moves, else it will take massive damage, although it really could use Air Balloon to ward off EQs. Focus Sash because many an Ice Punch or Low kick against bulky Ground or Steels is a 2HKO.

Finally Mega Altaria. Mega Evolving serves a pretty strong offensive and defensive purpose as well. Transforming to its Mega Form, it still keeps its Grass, Bug and Fighting Resist and loses its Dragon and Rock weakness while gaining an Electric and Dark resist and reducing its Ice Weakness. Thus there are ample opportunities to set up a DD as Altaria's 70/110/105 defenses can stomach a hit or two, Roost to recover health, then go ham with Pixilate Return. Sub blocks Status and Leech Seed and gives Altaria the power to wall most grass types and other status sets, allowing Altaria the freedom to set up to +6 easily. However, Altaria suffers from severe 4MSS because Fairy Offensive and Defensive is synergiezes pretty badly, seeing as you fail to hit your own weaknesses. Altaria will cry if Steelix, Heatran Muk or any half decent Steel or Poison type appears as the last Pokemon

I feel though that Lum Dragonite would be a much better trade because it doesn't need Sub and can Carry Dragon/Ground coverage whereas Altaria is a Stellar defensive Pokemon but could have done with a more defensively-oriented Ability. Azumarill/Electivire works quite well,but could certainly do with a with a Poison/ground Resist. Maybe i might try it with M-Scizor next time round.
 
The one thing I'd add to the previous two posts is that making sure you have switch-ins to stuff that threatens your lead is a good idea, but beyond that it's going to be better to subscribe to "the best defense is a good offense" rather than trying to come up with a team that resists as many types as possible.

Not all types are equal in how much one resist can cover them. In probably the most extreme example, it's one thing to resist Rock and another to be able to switch in on CB Tyrantrum's Head Smash or Sniper Barbaracle's Stone Edge and take them out, and the stuff in the latter category is going to be dead weight most battles. Same goes for something like Ice, when in addition to the possibility of getting frozen by Blizzard on the switch you may have to contend with a second attack from something speedy like Froslass or evasion from Glaceon.

On the other end of the spectrum, something like Gliscor can effectively switch in to so many Fighting type Pokemon and moves because those attacks lack any nasty side effects and their users don't have much in the way of status protection or stat boosting (in fact, some of them would be pretty tough matchups for Gliscor if not for the stat drops from a Superpower or Close Combat). Grass is another type with mostly straightforward attacks where finding something that can outspeed and KO most of its members is a lot easier than trying to fit in a team member that resists it.
 
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Would I be nuts to run...

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Relaxed, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp. Def (May swap to a specially defensive spread)
Ability: Oblivious -> Shell Armor (In case of Taunt lead)

- Scald
- Slack Off
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind

Chansey @ Eviolite
Bold, 4 HP, 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def
Ability: Natural Cure

- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Heal Pulse
- Aromatherapy

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Bold, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Speed
Ability: Intimidate

- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun
- Will-o-Wisp
- Snarl

Whimsicott @ Sitrus Berry
Timid, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def, 252 Speed
Ability: Chlorophyll (OK, lets be serious, Prankster)

- Moonblast / Knock Off
- Safeguard
- Taunt
- Worry Seed

Mega Slowbro + Eviolite Chansey as the core, walling physical and special threats like no one's business. Slowbro sets up to become unbreakable from both sides (or focusing on just one, if needed) thanks to crit immunity, reliable recovery, and status protection from Aromatherapy and Safeguard. Chansey supports as one of the game's very few pure cleric + healers, and by far the bulkiest (only real competition is Blissey, Meganium, and Chimecho) and a very bulky special wall that shares no weaknesses with Slowbro and covers its Ghost weakness (moot, considering Ghosts are immune to Seismic Toss). Arcanine further supports with Intimidate, WoW, and Snarl, while healing itself with Morning Sun, or Chansey can heal it while it cripples the foe. Flamethrower because fuck Ferrothorn (which eats the rest of the team for breakfat, btw). Safeguard + Taunt might look stupid, but consider a few things: 1) you can't Taunt a Nasty plot user + a Toxic mon at the same time. 2) You can't Taunt Scald, Sludge Bomb, Poison Fang, or Discharge 3) Magic Bounce Espeon with Yawn. Worry Seed is there exclusively to remove Water-immunity abilities (Dry Skin, Water Absorb, Storm Drain), disable Rest, and remove bothersome abilities (Toxic Heal, Contrary). Moonblast is just general coverage with a handy side effect. KNock Off could be used to remove items; importantly, it can remove Tricked Choice items on my own Arcanine/Chansey.

Slowbro cover's Chansey's Fighting weakness, Arcanine handles Grass, Whimsicott takes Electric, Dark, Grass, Ground.
Chandelure has me worried.

Sableye could work here: Prankster, WoW, Snarl, Knock Off, and Recover could replace Arcanine, but opens me to Ferrothorn.
I am actually crazy enough to stallwar the Maison, it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe be REALLY dickish and throw it on Battle Spot once or twice.
 
Would I be nuts to run...

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Relaxed, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp. Def (May swap to a specially defensive spread)
Ability: Oblivious -> Shell Armor (In case of Taunt lead)

- Scald
- Slack Off
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind

Chansey @ Eviolite
Bold, 4 HP, 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def
Ability: Natural Cure

- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Heal Pulse
- Aromatherapy

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Bold, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Speed
Ability: Intimidate

- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun
- Will-o-Wisp
- Snarl

Whimsicott @ Sitrus Berry
Timid, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def, 252 Speed
Ability: Chlorophyll (OK, lets be serious, Prankster)

- Moonblast / Knock Off
- Safeguard
- Taunt
- Worry Seed

Mega Slowbro + Eviolite Chansey as the core, walling physical and special threats like no one's business. Slowbro sets up to become unbreakable from both sides (or focusing on just one, if needed) thanks to crit immunity, reliable recovery, and status protection from Aromatherapy and Safeguard. Chansey supports as one of the game's very few pure cleric + healers, and by far the bulkiest (only real competition is Blissey, Meganium, and Chimecho) and a very bulky special wall that shares no weaknesses with Slowbro and covers its Ghost weakness (moot, considering Ghosts are immune to Seismic Toss). Arcanine further supports with Intimidate, WoW, and Snarl, while healing itself with Morning Sun, or Chansey can heal it while it cripples the foe. Flamethrower because fuck Ferrothorn (which eats the rest of the team for breakfat, btw). Safeguard + Taunt might look stupid, but consider a few things: 1) you can't Taunt a Nasty plot user + a Toxic mon at the same time. 2) You can't Taunt Scald, Sludge Bomb, Poison Fang, or Discharge 3) Magic Bounce Espeon with Yawn. Worry Seed is there exclusively to remove Water-immunity abilities (Dry Skin, Water Absorb, Storm Drain), disable Rest, and remove bothersome abilities (Toxic Heal, Contrary). Moonblast is just general coverage with a handy side effect. KNock Off could be used to remove items; importantly, it can remove Tricked Choice items on my own Arcanine/Chansey.

Slowbro cover's Chansey's Fighting weakness, Arcanine handles Grass, Whimsicott takes Electric, Dark, Grass, Ground.
Chandelure has me worried.

Sableye could work here: Prankster, WoW, Snarl, Knock Off, and Recover could replace Arcanine, but opens me to Ferrothorn.
I am actually crazy enough to stallwar the Maison, it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe be REALLY dickish and throw it on Battle Spot once or twice.
Pulling this off in Doubles seems like a real challenge. Dual Electric-type leads (common on Scientist and Roller Skater teams) can easily knock out Slowbro before it has a chance to move, as can any pair of powerhouses, so long as they have a strong super-effective move against Slowbro. Two against one is bad, even for something as bulky as Mega Slowbro. On top of that, this team has absolutely no defense against OHKO moves, meaning Walrein could just come in and snipe Slowbro, no questions asked.

In Singles, you can get away with one super sweeper with no real back-up (so long as that sweeper is Drapion). In Doubles, it just won't work with the amount of offensive pressure two enemy Pokemon can put on your sweeper. Maybe try out Mega Slowbro in Rotations? It seems like it could get away with more shenanigans there with teammates (e.g. Gliscor) that can help it beat OHKO users and manage some of its weaknesses. Good luck!
 
Pulling this off in Doubles seems like a real challenge. Dual Electric-type leads (common on Scientist and Roller Skater teams) can easily knock out Slowbro before it has a chance to move, as can any pair of powerhouses, so long as they have a strong super-effective move against Slowbro. Two against one is bad, even for something as bulky as Mega Slowbro. On top of that, this team has absolutely no defense against OHKO moves, meaning Walrein could just come in and snipe Slowbro, no questions asked.

In Singles, you can get away with one super sweeper with no real back-up (so long as that sweeper is Drapion). In Doubles, it just won't work with the amount of offensive pressure two enemy Pokemon can put on your sweeper. Maybe try out Mega Slowbro in Rotations? It seems like it could get away with more shenanigans there with teammates (e.g. Gliscor) that can help it beat OHKO users and manage some of its weaknesses. Good luck!
It doesn't have to stay in and attempt to setup against two dangerous leads like Magnezone+Thunder Jolteon; that's what backups are for. I'm not stupid enough to leave in a Slowbro on that. :P
But yeah, this was kinda something my half asleep brain spewed out last night, so I figured there'd be flaws (like dual electric types, OHKO moves. Maybe Topsy Turvy if the AI even has a Malamar past battle 40?)
Rotation though, yeah, that might actually go better. Less slots devoted to Heal Pulse and such. I think I'll change things around and try it there; I never could get the Rotations maison trophy...

And yes, I've utterly adored Drapion sweeps in the Maison. Pretty sure I used that and a Encore+Disable Alakazam to get my XY Singles trophy, iirc.
 
I've been lurking in this thread for a little while, and I now have all five maison trophies!
 
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Lumari

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TFP Leader
To be frank, I did expect to lose my final XY streak before reaching 1000... but not like fucking this. At least I didn't lose to Mara, heh. As we all saw recently, this sort of bullshit has killed WAY more impressive streaks than mine, but still. It happened a few times prior during wonder trades, but that was like a year ago (also haven't really wondertraded anymore since like June), and it never had this drastic sort of consequences.

upload_2015-1-27_21-4-15.jpeg


Because of school and OR I had taken a two-week break from the XY maison, this was the first time I played X since I posted my HA ratio data. The hardware waited half an hour before failing. On the positive side, I can retire my X cart now - which means less swapping game carts :3
This is the final progress pic I took. The final tally is 606 wins, but I've got no way to prove it, you'll have to take my word for it. (to those fortunate enough not to know, in the event of a game eject your streak progress is updated to where you last took a break, not to where the hardware failed)
upload_2015-1-27_21-4-41.jpeg


I did save the occasional battle vid, but due to some idiotic technical circumstances I can't upload them. Basically, when I got my first game when I was little, in my youthful innocence I thought up a cool personal IGN - little did I know that it happened to double as a porn acronym. I used this IGN in like 80% of all my pokemon games ever (whenever I picked the male character), and it never gave me any trouble or anything; however, apparently it's reached swastika proportions by now, so in the most recent game update, a few days after I got OR, Nintendo apparently updated the slur filter as well, causing any pokemon with that OT to be banned from the internet, whether it be wondertrade, GTS, passerby trades, battles, ... or battle vids. Nintendo didn't confirm this or anything (they didn't reply to my email asking if they knew a way to fix this other than restarting games), but it sounds plausible enough and I can't enter it as a nickname for my pokemon either. This sweet display of bullshit (come on, I can perfectly live with naughty acronyms being banned, but please update the slur filter BEFORE people get their games and enter it as an IGN, tyvm) cost me my 135-hour omega ruby save file, but there was no way in hell I was gonna erase a 1000+ hour save file that was on its 'final encore' anyway - hence, no battle vid. I mean, if people still want me to put a vid, I can just film the last vid I saved with my camera and put it on dropbox, but I forgot my password and don't really feel like recovering it right now. This is the closest I can get:
upload_2015-1-27_21-6-0.jpeg
(proof that the format is triples, whereas the progress pic is proof that I actually won this battle). I was at 300, around Christmas, when I noticed this IGN issue because it caused trading with cant say to fail, and I had to wait a couple of weeks before I could get together with a friend to use his bank to save a bunch of pokemon from my OR, which gave me plenty of time to net some sweet progress on this streak. I thought it was funny how my all-time low on Pokemon coincided with my all-time high, but then I didn't know how it was to end yet, lol.

Please let me know if there's something else I can add as streak proof :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right. I know I've discussed the squad here and here; however, I'm gonna discuss it one final time because those posts mostly focus on the team's evolution and are kinda all over the place regarding the final version. And I mean, in spite of everything this is a top 10 streak with Blaziken, and I'm sure the fanboys looking for a nice 'ken team would appreciate being directed to a writeup immediately :> and if you've gotten tired of me rambling about this team, which frankly wouldn't be surprising, you don't have to read it ^^ the team hasn't substantially changed since my 298 streak, just some EV optimisations and Protect > Superpower on Azumarill, as I more or less announced anyway.


By-Tor (Greninja) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/19/19/31/31/31
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Mat Block
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot
Completely standard Mat Block Greninja, commonly considered the best set in terms of coverage, utility, and reliability.


The Snow Dog (Manectric) @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod -> Intimidate
IVs: 21/15/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Volt Switch
-Protect

(Thunder Wave leads? What are those?) Pretty self-explanatory set I reckon; Thunderbolt is the go-to STAB move, Volt Switch is arguably the most important move on the team, and Protect is Protect. I opted for Flamethrower over HP Ice for two reasons: I already had Ice coverage in Greninja's Ice Beam, and HP Ice is so disgustingly weak when not 4x SE that it makes Manectric flat-out deadweight against opposing Lightningrod users. Lightningrod as the pre-mega ability is mandatory for invaluable support (and Intimidate isn't exactly bad either, lol)


Bob (Talonflame) @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Brave Bird
-Tailwind
-Taunt
-Protect
Fairly standard Tailwind Talonflame, max HP investment in order to be able to take more BB recoil and survive more attacks; no Speed investment because there aren't any relevant Taunt targets worth creeping for. Taunt is sort of an anomaly on this set because most people prefer to run Flare Blitz; however, I'd go as far as to say that Taunt is objectively better. The amount of stuff this move stops is so huge it's not even funny - it dates all the way back from my first teams, when I added it to stop Trick Room, but it also stops other common annoyances such as Stockpile users, Double Teamers (hello Cresselia2, nothing more satisfying than having that *** Struggle to death), status users (e.g. Swagger). As for Flare Blitz, I agree that Fire-type coverage is extremely useful on a lead trio (e.g. for Bug/Steels, hello Escavalier4), but since that's taken care of by Manectric's Flamethrower, there's nothing stopping me from running Taunt.


Galbatorix (Azumarill) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Huge Power
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/31
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
-Waterfall
-Play Rough
-Aqua Jet
-Protect
The EVs may seem a tad convoluted, but they simply maximise power and bulk, while putting Azumarill at 61 Spe, 1 point above the many, many 60s, and making SpD > Def for random Download boosts. Wide Lens is the only item that should be considered on Azu, in order to patch up Play Rough's accuracy. The moveset should be straightforward otherwise; I ran Protect > Superpower because the latter is basically only for Empoleon, Blissey, and Ferrothorn, which are sufficiently covered by my other mons.


Flashheart (Blaziken) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/31/13/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Low Kick
-Rock Slide
-Protect
Completely standard set for Blaziken, as far as that exists for a mon that nobody else seems to use lol. Flare Blitz and Low Kick are the best and most reliable STAB options available (why oh why doesn't this thing learn Close Combat), Protect is not only useful for being Protect but also for Speed Boost, and Rock Slide is the least useless coverage option available. I still only use it like once every thirty battles, though. Expert Belt is a poor man's Life Orb, which was way more useful for Hydreigon; Blaziken's super effective STAB coverage is easily good enough to make EBelt a viable alternative.


Eddie (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
IVs: 31/X/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Dragon Pulse
-Dark Pulse
-Earth Power
-Protect
Completely standard I suppose; Earth Power is there over something like Flamethrower because I didn't have a Ground-type move otherwise in order to cover Electrics, and I chose Modest over Timid because I have Tailwind anyway and there isn't that much that Timid gains over Modest.

The front line is what makes this team work the way it does. My previous, terrible, teams had focused on Tailwind- and Mat Block-supported Earthquake spam, and while the Earthquake part sucked, Mat Block and Tailwind were highly powerful, as everybody who's ever used them knows. Manectric was inspired by turskain's Lucario-Greninja triples team, which uses Volt Switch Rotom-W in the center position. Those unaware of the Mat Block Volt Switch combo's awesomeness might want to think of a Mat Block opening as a two-turn affair. The combo effectively lets you choose your own middle lead and hugely amplifies your potential coverage; instead of 'Thunderbolt+Thunderbolt' or 'Thunderbolt+Flamethrower', you get access to 'Volt Switch+Flare Blitz/Low Kick', 'Volt Switch+Dark Pulse/Dragon Pulse', and 'Volt Switch+Waterfall/Play Rough/Aqua Jet' - the AI is hard-pressed to come up with a team that walls that. Additionally, Greninja/Manectric/Talonflame's offensive synergy is nothing to scoff at either - the one free turn granted by Mat Block in tandem with their huge Speed and excellent combined coverage was enough to demolish many a team as well, and a first turn Volt Switch often wasn't the go-to play at all. However, Manectric has one additional advantage over Rotom-W: its base forme's Lightningrod. Naturally, a Greninja/Talonflame lead is annoyingly vulnerable to Electrics, so they really appreciate a partner that cripples those simply by being on the field. Absorbing Thunder Waves never hurts either. Originally the go-to play for the first turn was Mat Block+Volt Switch+Tailwind, but by now my plays are a lot less clear-cut. Of the backups only Hydreigon really appreciates Tailwind, Blaziken doesn't need it except maybe on the first turn, and it's wasted on Azu; also, I often opted to stay in with Manectric when he could put in decent work against the opposing leads.
If Volt Switch is chosen on the first turn, the most appropriate backup is rotated in; therefore I obviously have one physical (Blaziken) and one special breaker (Hydreigon), as well as a secondary blanket check to basically everything (Azumarill). If I opted to switch, Blaziken was the preferred option due to simply how much is covered by Fire/Fighting STAB (basically the reason I picked Blaziken in the first place, especially Fighting STAB is really valuable in a maison full of fat, annoying stuff like the Regis, Snorlax, Blissey, Regigigas, Slaking, and Regigigas) as well as Speed Boost, which usually renders a first-turn Tailwind unnecessary. Hydreigon used to be Nidoking in the first version of this team, which fit the bill of 'strong, special breaker' remarkably well but had downright terrible defensive synergy with Blaziken, which was especially apparent against Trick Room - Hydreigon was the closest equivalent and actually has excellent defensive synergy with Blaziken. He's flat-out better than Nidoking otherwise as well. My Trick Room matchup improved exponentially after adding Hydreigon: basically, avoid the first-turn TR - usually not hard at all with Talonflame's Taunt and Greninja's Dark Pulse/Manectric to murder Slowthings and setters out of Talon's reach - and then Hydreigon generally carves through those teams like butter. However, Hydreigon really elevated this team to another level in more ways that turned out to be a lot more awesome in practise than they seemed in theory. His cross-field moves gave my team even more flexibility, and while Greninja's Dark Pulse and Talon's Brave Bird were pretty damn useful for sniping stuff across the field, there's even less that can argue with Modest Hydreigon's Life Orb-boosted STAB Pulse moves. Additionally, his Earthquake immunity proved useful in more ways than just his defensive synergy with Blaziken, because it allowed me to often Volt Switch out Manectric when an Earthquake user was among the opposing team, basically gaining a free switch-in even after the Mat Block turn (again, this a lot cooler in practise than it sounds). Azumarill is a really welcome balancing element in this relatively fast team: its excellent bulk and jack-of-all-trades typing allow it function well both outside and, more importantly, inside Trick Room. Otherwise, Azumarill is mostly useful for its renowned ability to beat 95% of all offensive mons one-on-one (including e.g. all of the maison's Raikou sets, just to give an idea how ridiculous this thing is) and its freaking Aqua Jet, which comes in really handy because this team can often fall just short of a KO, making Azu's revenge killing capabilities come in really handy.

The biggest threat to this team is easily Trick Room, with Mara as the main offender - she's basically the only trainer with a consistently decent at least matchup against my team. I conveniently managed to avoid her for like 300 battles straight (between the high 100s and 497, so pretty much during my entire leaderboard storm ^^ So much for AI anti-teaming lmfao), but then the AI threw her three times at me in like 15 battles so that sort of made up for it. In case of only one setter, I 'can' basically always avoid TR by either Taunting or killing it - things do get sticky in the event of multiple setters (basically only against Mara) or Fake Out support (basically only from Jynx). Easily the most dangerous setters are Aromatisse4 (Aroma Veil, can only be KOed by triple targeting, and slaughters Hydreigon), Bronzong1 (more annoying utility moves+Sitrus Berry and possible Heatproof making it nigh unkillable in the left position), and Cresselia4 (stupid bulk+Moonblast for Hydreigon+legendary teammates lol. I thought that, if not Mara, Cress4 in the left position would be the opponent I'd eventually lose to). Another potential downfall is trying too rigidly to Taunt+kill setters in a convoluted situation with multiple setters, which cost me my previous streak.
She led off with Bronzong (left), Musharna (mid), Dusknoir (right), I naturally lead off with Greninja (left), Manectric (mid), and Talon (right). I don't really know for sure which one of those leads is gonna set up TR; Mush is out of the question because he's gonna target Ninja with Energy Ball, but Dusknoir and Bronzong both can't really threaten my leads. Because Bronzong at least has a powerful attack to hit Manectric neutrally, I guess Dusknoir, Taunt it, and double target Bronzong with Manectric and Greninja. Bronzong survives and sets up TR. Dusknoir tries to set up TR also, but can't because of the Taunt. wut. That's what I get for assuming -as I've always done- that she's only gonna have one of her leads set up TR, apparently I was giving her too much credit. Live and learn I suppose. I've mock battled it twice afterwards, both times Bronzong and Dusknoir both tried to set up TR (and thus ended up resetting it).
The remainder of her lineup was pretty bad as well, featuring Seismitoad (which severely dents Azumarill with Poison Jab), and TR-counter-counter Aromatisse. Because this also turned out to be that battle where Play Rough's 1% miss chance decided to kick in, another attempt ended prematurely. I would have won easily if I had just allowed Bronzong and Dusknoir to reset each other's TR. Guess I can bring that tidbit of knowledge along in a subsequent attempt (if there's gonna be one).
(replay: XCUG-WWWW-WWWA-ARDX; probably still works because it was uploaded before the update to the slur filter) How to play this one: Dark Pulse Bronzong, Brave Bird Dusknoir, Volt Switch to Hydreigon via Bronzong. TR is most likely gonna go up, yes, but it most likely would have done so anyway and you're bringing in Hydreigon on a lineup that can't really threaten him. Hydreigon OHKOes Musharna, so if Talon and Ninja are out of direct KO reaches, you're set for a 3-0 lead, and even within TR that's 'always' winnable (unless there's dual screens at the same time lol, see my Nidoking streak :p), and otherwise just leave Dusknoir alive because he's a sitting duck anyway once TR is up and may even end up resetting it. And even if Aromatisse appears (which it did), it is KOed by two Brave Birds/Brave Bird+Waterfall/Brave Bird+Aqua Jet+whatever, and there's a reason I have Protect on Hydreigon. I realised I should have played like this when I was around 200 battles in this streak, and I cleanly won the mock battle like five times in a row (narrowest victory was 6-3 iirc). I didn't lose because Mara essentially hard countered my team (not to say it was an easy matchup lol), I lost because I failed to think out of the box. Kinda overdue to discover new depths to your team's potential, heh - but still, it shows me improving as a player. Judging by this streak, I did indeed.
19/02 edit: TD7G-WWWW-WWXB-SCX7 (yup that's more like it n_n another Mara battle, on my OR run with the same team, again Aroma4, Cofag, and possible Zong1, in addition to Slowking -although this lineup was just a tad less terrible than the one in the 299 loss- but this time I did play it (mostly) like I'm supposed to. Dat slow Volt Switch btw ^^)


Opponents that outspeed Greninja are obvious annoyances as well. Electrics are neutered by Lightningrod, Aerodactyl and Crobat are conveniently outsped by Manectric in its Mega forme; the standard play is Protect with Manectric and Ice Beam with Greninja (which always survives because Sash), in the right position they're beaten by a second turn Thunderbolt. Choice Scarf users can be kept in check via clever use of Protect and Talon's Brave Bird (e.g. Protect with Manectric and Talon against Darm4 and Dark Pulse it, then kill it with BB; or use BB first turn to substantially weaken Entei3's Eruption, yada yada). Fake Out from the likes of Infernape, Ludicolo, and Jynx is annoying as well, but it only got really hairy one time when I misplayed and Mat Block got disrupted and I got to eat a +1 Torrent-boosted Surf from a center Empoleon4. Individual threats include the traditional Zapdos2 (only hit super effectively by Ice Beam and Double Team sucks, so must be muscled through quickly; Taunting it works as well, but there's nothing more annoying than inadvertently Taunting Zapdos1 and giving some other dangerous legendary a free turn), Cresselia2 in the left position (Taunt bait otherwise, but again there's the possibility of inadvertently Taunting an innocent set). Continuing on the Zapdos note, Ampharos4 is surprisingly annoying, as it's one of the very few Electrics not neutered by Manectric (because it prefers Focus Blast and Power Gem regardless) and while Hydreigon easily beats it with Earthquake, it can't switch in because of Focus Blast and the rest of my team has trouble hitting through Ampharos without taking a huge chunk of damage. May add more later.

Traditional threats such as status and Quick Claw users are covered relatively well imo. Quick Claw users are covered by Mega Manectric's Intimidate, which prevents Muk's Explosion and Ursaring's Earthquake from OHKOing any of my leads on the Mat Block turn; Leafeon has a terrible matchup against my leads anyway, while Donphan admittedly is dangerous. Talonflame's Brave Bird 2HKOes all of them at worst as well, so I'm not afraid of a QC proc on the second turn. Status is covered remarkably well between Manectric's Lightningrod absorbing Thunder Waves, Talon's Taunt preventing basically everything from the mid and right positions, and Talon's cross-field Brave Bird OHKOing asshats like Lilligant, Vileplume, and (often) Absol. Sleep is pretty rare anyway (Greninja beats Altaria and Crobat - which always Taunts Greninja anyway, in the right position simply Protect+Mega with Manectric turn 1 and kill it turn 2 - Drifblim sucks, Jynx opens with Fake Out and is dead before it can use Lovely Kiss, and Politoed always uses Focus Blast/Hydro Pump), and my team doesn't really give a fuck about Will-O-Wisp (two of the physical attackers are immune to it; only Azu hates it).
I may edit more into this post if I remember more stuff

-----------------------------------------------
All this happened yesterday, I took two days to write this post because I blew off some of my frustration with a cute af ORAS singles team that I thought up late November-ish but couldn't use until a couple of days ago because of naughty IGN reasons (three of my favourites, but no stat-boosting lead, Mega Khan, or dragon, lol; still the pokemon aren't exactly exotic. Got the Starf Berry now so it looks solid ^^). Regarding this incident, I mainly set out on this streak to have the numbers confirm how much this team rules, which I guess I sort of did; after all, a technically ongoing 606 streak >>>>> a 298 streak cleanly lost to (what I considered it at the time) a hecking difficult matchup, and it's not like I have proven that much as a battle facility player already. It still massively sucks that I didn't get to make it to 1000 because of something like this, but hey, at least I now know which mons to use in the ORAS maison, lol - as I've stated multiple times, it's incredibly fun and incredibly rewarding to play, so I'm not getting bored of it just yet as long as I still have something to go for :3 I'm gonna get all the trophies first though, but then I'll probably try again and hopefully won't be screwed over by faulty technology. One time is plenty, thanks, and I just have to hope it's gonna be the only one. I've got no reason to assume this team can't make it, judging by how utterly devastating it is if played right, as well as that slight bit of extra consistency I've noticed in myself. Never a dull moment with this team.
 
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cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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tl;dr

haha nah good job The Dutch Plumberjack! I'm mainly posting to confirm the dodgy IGN stuff since DP (hehe) and I tried to hash this out for a good while. Anything with that IGN suddenly could not be traded (even from past gen games). He legit had to transfer everything to bank and restart his game. I would have cried if that was me ;_;
 
What do you peeps think of this team in super singles?

Dragonite/lum berry, Nature Adamant

EV's 252 atk/ 252 spd/ 4 hp

Moveset:

Dragons Dance

Dragons Claw

Earthquake

Fire Punch

Gengar/Focus Slash, Nature Timid

EV's 252 sp.atk/ 252 spd/ 4 hp

Moveset:

Shadow Ball

Destiny Bond

Thunderbolt

Psychic

Kangaskhan/Kangaskhanite, Nature Jolly

Ev's 252 hp/ 252 atk/ 4 spd

Moveset:

Earthquake

Power Up Punch

Return

Sucker Punch

I currently have a on going streak of 79 with this team at the moment but it's not too hard to get a streak of 79 so I was wondering what your opinions on this team are.

A quick edit to talk a bit about how I play this team: I Start with Dragonite and If I have time to power up with dragons dance I will but if I know I can only get 1 move off or if I can only kill the other starting pokemon with 2 hits in a row. If Dragonite faint's I will put Gengar in IF I know that he can either win the battle by destiny bonding or if I have fainted at least one pokemon and the next one is a little low. I usually use Gengar for destiny bond, either to get rid of a pokemon I know will get rid of Khan instantly or to get to get rid of the last pokemon. In every other situation I just put in Khan and I will use Sucker Punch if I know that it can KO the target and that said target is a huge threat to Khan. I will really only use power up punch if Khan is put in with either 2-3 pokemon still up for the enemy as it can usually sweep the last pokemon with ease.
 
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image.jpg

Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
240 Spe/248 HP/20 Def
Jolly nature
-Protect
-Swords Dance
-Baton Pass
-Poison Jab

I've found that baton passing confuses the AI a huge amount, since they are only focused at fighting the pokemon in the battle. I've accumulated 50+ win streaks with Scolipede at the head, passing speed boosts and the like to waiting team members. This strategy does wear itself out, however, as the computer eventually will ALWAYS lead with a fire or flying type, no exception. Change it up a bit every now and then.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
What do you peeps think of this team in super singles?

Dragonite/lum berry, Nature Adamant

EV's 252 atk/ 252 spd/ 4 hp

Moveset:

Dragons Dance

Dragons Claw

Earthquake

Fire Punch

Gengar/Focus Slash, Nature Timid

EV's 252 sp.atk/ 252 spd/ 4 hp

Moveset:

Shadow Ball

Destiny Bond

Thunderbolt

Psychic

Kangaskhan/Kangaskhanite, Nature Jolly

Ev's 252 hp/ 252 atk/ 4 spd

Moveset:

Earthquake

Power Up Punch

Return

Sucker Punch

I currently have a on going streak of 79 with this team at the moment but it's not too hard to get a streak of 79 so I was wondering what your opinions on this team are.

A quick edit to talk a bit about how I play this team: I Start with Dragonite and If I have time to power up with dragons dance I will but if I know I can only get 1 move off or if I can only kill the other starting pokemon with 2 hits in a row. If Dragonite faint's I will put Gengar in IF I know that he can either win the battle by destiny bonding or if I have fainted at least one pokemon and the next one is a little low. I usually use Gengar for destiny bond, either to get rid of a pokemon I know will get rid of Khan instantly or to get to get rid of the last pokemon. In every other situation I just put in Khan and I will use Sucker Punch if I know that it can KO the target and that said target is a huge threat to Khan. I will really only use power up punch if Khan is put in with either 2-3 pokemon still up for the enemy as it can usually sweep the last pokemon with ease.
All 3 of your team members are tried-and-tested Maison goodstuffs. I liked running Shadow Ball / Sludge Bomb / Dazzling Gleam / Destiny Bond on my Gengar, but his moveset is really flexible! When you're using DNite as a lead you have to watch out for Ice types, which you have nothing to help deal with on your team. I would recommend instead leading with Kangaskhan which only really fears strong Fighting types as you can just switch to Gengar to deal with them, and have DNite in the back. Extreme Speed is a great move to use on him if you're not leading so try fitting it on somewhere if you can. It's weird to have a Jolly Kang with 0 speed, I would either rebreed it to be Adamant or re-EV so it's max attack and speed.

This strategy does wear itself out, however, as the computer eventually will ALWAYS lead with a fire or flying type, no exception. Change it up a bit every now and then.
Why do people still believe that the game will counter-team you on purpose? The game will not "ALWAYS' send out stuff that your team doesn't like, and changing your team up every few battles will do nothing to 'confuse' it or whatever you think you're doing.
 
Why do people still believe that the game will counter-team you on purpose? The game will not "ALWAYS' send out stuff that your team doesn't like, and changing your team up every few battles will do nothing to 'confuse' it or whatever you think you're doing.

You know, I wondered the same thing myself, so I put it to the test.

I hacked a completely unlegit, theoretically unstoppable OP Raikou, and put it to the test.

Raikou@ Air Balloon
Ability: Wonder Guard
Modest 6 HP 252 Sp Att 252 Spd
~Thunderbolt
~Searing Shot
~Ice Beam
~Refresh/Shadow Ball

I started with Refresh and switched to Shadow Ball to see if the AI would change at all now that Toxic and stuff did something.

What I expected if the AI were to counterteam me: Mold Breaker pokemon, Toxic, Leech Seed, Will-o-Wisp, Confuse Ray, Trick.

I was going to test a good number of battles post-40, but I noted what trainers and pokemon I faced before then, and it was smooth sailing until battle 40. I then preceded to have Raikou die 3 times in 4 battles and the last poke Entei2 killed my other two mons to defeat me in battle 44.

I purposefully never switched Raikou out so I could see what the AI would do with the pokemon that could touch it. If nothing on their team could touch me, it made very odd switches, including switching first turn after sending in a poke after I KO'd one of their mons.

I have three hypotheses that can be tested.
1. The AI counterteams you starting battle 40/41 if you are using this Cheese Raikou.
2. I got 3 unlucky battles out of 4 just happening to start after battle 40.
3. Toxic is really common and I never really notice/GF set up these pokes to deal with hack/cheese/wonder guard strats.

Obviously, more battles would need to be done to say that the AI does counterteam. I also cannot upload battle videos with the Raikou since it is illegal/hacked.

The ????? means the AI switched into something that got OHKO'd while I wasn't paying attention.
 

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Toxic is pretty common. 21 of the "set 4 + Legendaries" Pokemon have it (including the Trick + Toxic Orb Metagross), and your opponent gets three Pokemon on their team, giving them three chances. In contrast, only five non-legendary Set 3 Pokemon have it and 6 non-legendary Set 2 Pokemon. It's pretty common in Set 1 (something like 14 users), but I don't know the relative frequency of Toxic Pokemon among the opponents you face. That said, the high number of Toxic users post-battle 40 doesn't even include the Will-o-Wisp/Swagger/Leech Seed users.

The problem with the "tests" everyone runs is that they do, like, twenty battles and think they've "proven" something. Even before we consider the small sample size the question itself isn't even clear. Are we saying that they adjust their teams to BEAT your team? Or just to have something that can actually HIT each Pokemon on your team (which is all that a "WonderTomb" approach can really prove)? Do they only care about your lead Pokemon? Are they primarily looking for type advantage? Even if someone comes back having done several hundred battles with their "cheap" team (AND a few hundred battles with a legal team, because the data is useless without a control group) and shows that the AI actually sends out counters to the cheap team but not the non-cheap team, I'm not sure what they've really shown when it comes down to battles with legal Pokemon.

And, let's be perfectly clear here: The AI uses Will-o-Wisp on their own partners in Multi battles. It thinks that Carbink is a better switch-in to Drapion than Choice Band Tyrantrum. I REALLY don't think it's sophisticated enough to "counterteam." But if someone provides really strong evidence it they DOES, and can actually find out how they do it, then all that does is provide is with more information to help us plan teams that exploit that pattern in the AI. But we'd need a LOT of data points before we could say anything, statistically speaking.

From my own experience, I consider my 525 (or whatever) streak with Dragonite/Aegislash/Gliscor as proof enough that the AI doesn't counterteam. Froslass, Glaceon, and Protean Greninja are super-obvious answers to those three Pokemon, and while I did have strategies for them (that blatantly failed with even minor hax), they could easily mess me up if they came in when I was vulnerable. The fact that I won over 500 battles with a team with such a gaping weakness makes me pretty confident the counterteaming idea is all BS.
 
Toxic is pretty common. 21 of the "set 4 + Legendaries" Pokemon have it (including the Trick + Toxic Orb Metagross), and your opponent gets three Pokemon on their team, giving them three chances. In contrast, only five non-legendary Set 3 Pokemon have it and 6 non-legendary Set 2 Pokemon. It's pretty common in Set 1 (something like 14 users), but I don't know the relative frequency of Toxic Pokemon among the opponents you face. That said, the high number of Toxic users post-battle 40 doesn't even include the Will-o-Wisp/Swagger/Leech Seed users.

The problem with the "tests" everyone runs is that they do, like, twenty battles and think they've "proven" something. Even before we consider the small sample size the question itself isn't even clear. Are we saying that they adjust their teams to BEAT your team? Or just to have something that can actually HIT each Pokemon on your team (which is all that a "WonderTomb" approach can really prove)? Do they only care about your lead Pokemon? Are they primarily looking for type advantage? Even if someone comes back having done several hundred battles with their "cheap" team (AND a few hundred battles with a legal team, because the data is useless without a control group) and shows that the AI actually sends out counters to the cheap team but not the non-cheap team, I'm not sure what they've really shown when it comes down to battles with legal Pokemon.

And, let's be perfectly clear here: The AI uses Will-o-Wisp on their own partners in Multi battles. It thinks that Carbink is a better switch-in to Drapion than Choice Band Tyrantrum. I REALLY don't think it's sophisticated enough to "counterteam." But if someone provides really strong evidence it they DOES, and can actually find out how they do it, then all that does is provide is with more information to help us plan teams that exploit that pattern in the AI. But we'd need a LOT of data points before we could say anything, statistically speaking.

From my own experience, I consider my 525 (or whatever) streak with Dragonite/Aegislash/Gliscor as proof enough that the AI doesn't counterteam. Froslass, Glaceon, and Protean Greninja are super-obvious answers to those three Pokemon, and while I did have strategies for them (that blatantly failed with even minor hax), they could easily mess me up if they came in when I was vulnerable. The fact that I won over 500 battles with a team with such a gaping weakness makes me pretty confident the counterteaming idea is all BS.
Did I not make it very clear that my one simple test proves nothing except that Regiggigas is no joke? I went in assuming that the AI just sends out random pokemon, and wanted to show that even this very obvious, very illegal, and very counterable strat makes the AI do nothing different.

If the AI counterteams at all, which is probably doesn't, then it would have to be very simple. If it did do anything, which it probably doesn't, I would assume they would want to stop Wonder Guard hacks. Hopefully I can get around to doing more battles tomorrow post-40. To find out if the AI send more Toxic and friends than normal. Which it probably doesn't.

What is the value of doing this? Because I am curious to whether the AI does cheat. Which it probably doesn't.
 

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