ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

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I know this is off topic, but I just noticed that Crobat has dropped back down to A+ without anybody really talking about it. When did that happen? I mean, I'm not opposed to it, I'm just curious.

Sorry for the short post by the way, I'll make up for it by contributing something relevant later, I swear.
 

Adaam

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I nominate Mega Ampharos to A rank. (Sorry if I'm not doing this right)

I've been using the phsyically defensive RestTalk et with D Pulse and Volt Switch with great success. It's blistering SpA hits everything hard barring things like Blissey and Florges, even without investment. At the same tme, it checks every current S rank mon, flying types like Crobat and M-Aero, Water types like Empoleon and Vaporeon, and can take neutral physical hits as well. It also can absorb status with Rest, is immune to paralysis, and its terrible speed can be seen as a blessing, as it guarantees a slow Volt Switch which grabs momentum and forms a great VoltTurn core (I personally use Mienshao). However, Hydreigon and Ground types force it out, but hitting hem with a D Pulse on the switch can make the opponent think twice next time before bringing them in on a switch.

Pairing it up with, Vaporeon, for example forms a great defensive core since it eats the Grass and Electric moves Vaporeon hates, while Vapo can take Ice moves and Earthquakes (also it forces out the ground type). Plus, with Heal Bell on Vapo, it can wake up Ampharos during its Rest

Calcs:

252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 172-204 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 86-102 (22.4 - 26.6%) -- 19.7% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 42-50 (10.9 - 13%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 72-86 (18.7 - 22.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 80-94 (20.8 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 93-111 (24.2 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 158-186 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 187-222 (48.8 - 57.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 169-200 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO

8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxicroak: 202-238 (65.7 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 210-248 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 181-214 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 118-139 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (meh I know but you can switch into something that can finish it off or switch back)
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 168-200 (45.1 - 53.7%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 246-290 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 192-226 (58 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 186-220 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

dingbat

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I know this is off topic, but I just noticed that Crobat has dropped back down to A+ without anybody really talking about it. When did that happen? I mean, I'm not opposed to it, I'm just curious.

Sorry for the short post by the way, I'll make up for it by contributing something relevant later, I swear.
I don't mind short posts

Anyways, I shifted several things including Crobat to better reflect the vr since it's a little outdated atm

Also, mega aero has always been a borderline a+/s, and as bouff or whoever noted (outside of this thread), it's been a monthly candidate for S rank but for some reason or another, it falls just a minuscule short of getting the s rank status. I'd like to see some input on this and whether it should go up now or later (again).
 

nv

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Also, mega aero has always been a borderline a+/s, and as bouff or whoever noted (outside of this thread), it's been a monthly candidate for S rank but for some reason or another, it falls just a minuscule short of getting the s rank status. I'd like to see some input on this and whether it should go up now or later (again).
Well I haven't used Mega Aero in awhile, so I don't know how it fares in ladder play, but the fact that on paper it can trap Crobat (a former S rank mon itself) and being able to outspeed all the other Megas and other mons bar Choice Scarf users is a blessing that I feel goes well with its movepool. The fact that it can run Defog, Rocks, Taunt, Pursuit, STABs, and other moves are amazing enough for it to be a great stallbreaker or trapper.

However, while it does have a great movepool and a great Speed tier, it suffers from massive 4MSS. It wants to run all the above mentioned moves but can only afford to run 4 of those. So it can be a decent stallbreaker, but then cannot trap mons as it needs Roost + Taunt to stay alive to keep breaking stall. And if it wants to trap mons, it cannot effectively stallbreak.

In my personal opinion though, it isn't something every team needs a check to but rather a mon that every team naturally has a check for since most UU teams run a Bulky Water or some kind of check to MegaDactyl. So I feel that as of right now it can stay at A+ rank, however with the new drops that may change.
 

Hogg

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As promised, some Ferroseed replays to demonstrate viability:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206863410 - Admittedly up against a crappy player, but you can see Ferroseed distinguish itself.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206892856 - From a tour this morning. Unlike Forry, Ferroseed doubles as a switch-in to bulky waters, as seen here.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206751620 - Against King UU, definitely showing off Ferro's viability on the right team. While Wish support is needed to keep it going, it comes in time and time again, and does things like tanking a +6 Moonblast from CM Florges with ~35% to spare, switching into a weakened Machamp to kill it with Iron Barbs damage (non-CB versions don't even kill with Close Combat), and getting enough chip damage on the whole opposing team (handy for stall).

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-206323578 - Against Meowiekins, Ferroseed puts work in as a consistent defensive pivot, in addition to dropping hazards.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206931964 - Ignore the terrible hax; the relevant bit is that Ferroseed survives a Reckless Mienshao HJK.

Again, it definitely requires team support to work, and won't work on most teams. I wouldn't place Ferroseed above B-, and C might be more accurate. But I definitely think it has a niche, and deserves to at least be ranked.
 
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Hogg

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Did you find out what sort of Reckless Mienshao? Just Scarf probably?
I assume Scarf, based on the lack of LO recoil and the fact thst it stayed in against M-Aero. Still, surviving a STAB SE Reckless HJK is no mean feat, and shows that it still has surprising bulk despite the base 44 HP.
 
I assume Scarf, based on the lack of LO recoil and the fact thst it stayed in against M-Aero. Still, surviving a STAB SE Reckless HJK is no mean feat, and shows that it still has surprising bulk despite the base 44 HP.
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 254-300 (86.9 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Admittedly you did get the lower end of the damage roll, but the fact that a ferroseed can live a Reckless Mienshao HJK is still amazing!
 

Wanka

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Cresselia A- to A: I guess you could say this is more of a prediction rather than an insta bump up. However as most of you know medicham has been roaming around claiming innocent souls and it has brought to myself and a couple of my friends that cresselia is in a sense a hard counter. I mean with a max defense bold set even medis power isnt breaking through that. And cm cress whether it be sub cm or cm moonlight is a fabulous win con after a check is removed so I wouldnt be surprised at all if this thing and or pokes like reuiniclis get more attention. and it kinda stops powerful wallbreakers in general whether a team has medicham or not, but im currently using it as of late and we'll see.


252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 112-132 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- 4.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers re

252 Atk Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 132-156 (30.6 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 171-202 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(ik scarf darm isnt oo relevant but wht the hell)
 
Maybe its stupid but everytime i play UU i see mega beedril its becoming annoying can we get mega beedril for a suspect test please
 
I just realized Togetic isn't ranked. Now that its type combo is unique in UU (RIP Togekiss), can we at the very least put it in C-Rank? It walls big threats like Hydreigon and Zygarde, can provide great support in Defog/T-Wave/Heal Bell, and can Nasty Pass (or even dry pass) to set up a sweep. It has some trouble with top threats like M-Aero and Jirachi, but I think it is useful enough to warrant a ranking among the likes of Braviary, Durant, Golbat, and Zoroark.

PS: Bronzong is so happy that it is viable that it has the only moving sprite on the list. Definitely made me smile :)
Much as I love bronz, he's not the only moving sprite(quilfish is delighted too :)). He should be B tho...
 
Here are a few overworld sprites you can draw into the viability ranking:











I am wondering why Swampert is ranked higher than Mega Swampert? I don't see what it does better that there is a 2 rank difference.
he's not ranked above his mega, they're arranged alphabetically :)
 
he's not ranked above his mega, they're arranged alphabetically :)
That's an older post from when Swampert actually was ranked above his mega, notice that it included the sprites of megas that aren't allowed in UU anymore.

As for your Bronzong rating, why should he move up to B? I'm not for or against the decision, but could you please put some reasoning in your post to tell us why you believe he should be promoted?
 
That's an older post from when Swampert actually was ranked above his mega, notice that it included the sprites of megas that aren't allowed in UU anymore.

As for your Bronzong rating, why should he move up to B? I'm not for or against the decision, but could you please put some reasoning in your post to tell us why you believe he should be promoted?
Ok then sorry. As for bronzing, he's only legitimate counter in UU are hydreigon and rotom-heat and he's an amazing lead, both suicide-wise and normal tank wise, setting up screens and rock with ease and then exploding magnificently.
 

ManOfMany

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As promised, some Ferroseed replays to demonstrate viability:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206863410 - Admittedly up against a crappy player, but you can see Ferroseed distinguish itself.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206892856 - From a tour this morning. Unlike Forry, Ferroseed doubles as a switch-in to bulky waters, as seen here.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206751620 - Against King UU, definitely showing off Ferro's viability on the right team. While Wish support is needed to keep it going, it comes in time and time again, and does things like tanking a +6 Moonblast from CM Florges with ~35% to spare, switching into a weakened Machamp to kill it with Iron Barbs damage (non-CB versions don't even kill with Close Combat), and getting enough chip damage on the whole opposing team (handy for stall).

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-206323578 - Against Meowiekins, Ferroseed puts work in as a consistent defensive pivot, in addition to dropping hazards.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-206931964 - Ignore the terrible hax; the relevant bit is that Ferroseed survives a Reckless Mienshao HJK.

Again, it definitely requires team support to work, and won't work on most teams. I wouldn't place Ferroseed above B-, and C might be more accurate. But I definitely think it has a niche, and deserves to at least be ranked.
Actually, the replay against King UU showed why Ferroseed isn't very viable. It let CM Florges set up on you, and it was ultimately what lost you the game. Forretress would not have lost you the game in that situation. In fact it is not only CM Florges that can set-up on you. Basically anything that runs Substitute, and even pokemon that don't can set up on you. Let's see what can set up on you- Suicune (struggles with leech seed but can stall out ferro with presure), Florges, Reuniclus, Cresselia, Toxicroak, Lucario, Infernape, Absol, Taunt-Bulkup Krook, Curselax, Scrafty, SubBellyChesnaught, SumCM Raikou etc... Ferro is ultimate set-up bait.
It is also really easy to defog/spin on because it can't deal any damage, and most good teams carry one of these. Whereas Forretress can threaten some defoggers/spinners with momentum volt-switch, tentacruel gets scald and stuff like acid spray, even omastar can be good because ice beam reks gligar. It's just not generally worth using unless you are on a full-stall team.
However, I can definitely see the positives of its typing. Perhaps C wouldn't be bad.
 

Hogg

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Actually, the replay against King UU showed why Ferroseed isn't very viable. It let CM Florges set up on you, and it was ultimately what lost you the game. Forretress would not have lost you the game in that situation. In fact it is not only CM Florges that can set-up on you. Basically anything that runs Substitute, and even pokemon that don't can set up on you. Let's see what can set up on you- Suicune (struggles with leech seed but can stall out ferro with presure), Florges, Reuniclus, Cresselia, Toxicroak, Lucario, Infernape, Absol, Taunt-Bulkup Krook, Curselax, Scrafty, SubBellyChesnaught, SumCM Raikou etc... Ferro is ultimate set-up bait.
It is also really easy to defog/spin on because it can't deal any damage, and most good teams carry one of these. Whereas Forretress can threaten some defoggers/spinners with momentum volt-switch, tentacruel gets scald and stuff like acid spray, even omastar can be good because ice beam reks gligar. It's just not generally worth using unless you are on a full-stall team.
However, I can definitely see the positives of its typing. Perhaps C wouldn't be bad.
Overall yes, Ferroseed can be setup bait. But in this instance, CM Florges can stall Forry out of Gyro Ball and set up on it, too. My only chance was to seed Florges so that it would lose to Sub Kyurem.

Again, I'm not arguing that Ferroseed is the next best thing, or even that it's better than Forretress. I'm just saying that it does have a niche on the right team (mostly full stall teams, as you said).
 

Lord Wallace

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Why is Mega Absol still A Rank? I havent seen one being used in ages and for pretty good reason too.
If you look at the threats in the A+ and S tiers above Absol, it loses or is threatened by almost all of them unless it runs Play Rough for the Fighting types in which it gives up Superpower most likely and gets walled by a bunch of Steel types. It's just too frail to set up SD on much of anything in the current BO oriented metagame and while STAB priority in SPunch is nice its mostly overshadowed (not outclassed per say) as a Dark type attacker by Krookodile right now, who has access to Intimidate, a strong secondary STAB, can use Pursuit better, and offers more utility in general without using the Mega Slot.
I'd say putting it at A- with Lucario seems fair. I just don't think it successfully or consistently does it's job as much in this metagame as the other A ranked threats like Swampert and Krookodile, therefore making it less viable.

Mega Amphy deserves A I agree with that notion I believe I made a post addressing this pages ago as well.
 
Why is Mega Absol still A Rank? I havent seen one being used in ages and for pretty good reason too.
If you look at the threats in the A+ and S tiers above Absol, it loses or is threatened by almost all of them unless it runs Play Rough for the Fighting types in which it gives up Superpower most likely and gets walled by a bunch of Steel types. It's just too frail to set up SD on much of anything in the current BO oriented metagame and while STAB priority in SPunch is nice its mostly overshadowed (not outclassed per say) as a Dark type attacker by Krookodile right now, who has access to Intimidate, a strong secondary STAB, can use Pursuit better, and offers more utility in general without using the Mega Slot.
I'd say putting it at A- with Lucario seems fair. I just don't think it successfully or consistently does it's job as much in this metagame as the other A ranked threats like Swampert and Krookodile, therefore making it less viable.

Mega Amphy deserves A I agree with that notion I believe I made a post addressing this pages ago as well.
Can't make too detailed of a post right now but, with ORAS, Play Rough is legal with Knock Off and Superpower now because of the tutors. I assume that its drop in usage is probably because of competition with the newer megas, but it is still very good at got a bit better from XY because of the Play Rough + tutor move thing.
 

YABO

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Why is Mega Absol still A Rank? I havent seen one being used in ages and for pretty good reason too.
If you look at the threats in the A+ and S tiers above Absol, it loses or is threatened by almost all of them unless it runs Play Rough for the Fighting types in which it gives up Superpower most likely and gets walled by a bunch of Steel types. It's just too frail to set up SD on much of anything in the current BO oriented metagame and while STAB priority in SPunch is nice its mostly overshadowed (not outclassed per say) as a Dark type attacker by Krookodile right now, who has access to Intimidate, a strong secondary STAB, can use Pursuit better, and offers more utility in general without using the Mega Slot.
I'd say putting it at A- with Lucario seems fair. I just don't think it successfully or consistently does it's job as much in this metagame as the other A ranked threats like Swampert and Krookodile, therefore making it less viable.

Mega Amphy deserves A I agree with that notion I believe I made a post addressing this pages ago as well.
Actually, I'm of the mindset that Mega Absol is severely underrated atm. Running Play Rough is an absolutely HUGE boon to Mega Absol. The premier Dark-type resists are Fighting-types and Dark-types. Namely, Machamp, Krookodile, and stuff like Whimsicott. All of these are hit very hard by Play Rough. In fact, the only Steel-types that you are hitting for noticeably less damage are Mega Aggron and something like Cobalion. You were never going to beat Mega Aggron regardless and Cobalion is easily handled with proper team support. STAB Sucker Punch is ABSOLutely ridiculous btw (geddit?) and is capable of picking apart teams that rely on something like Scarf Jirachi to outspeed faster threats.
 

Meru

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Actually, I'm of the mindset that Mega Absol is severely underrated atm. Running Play Rough is an absolutely HUGE boon to Mega Absol. The premier Dark-type resists are Fighting-types and Dark-types. Namely, Machamp, Krookodile, and stuff like Whimsicott. All of these are hit very hard by Play Rough. In fact, the only Steel-types that you are hitting for noticeably less damage are Mega Aggron and something like Cobalion. You were never going to beat Mega Aggron regardless and Cobalion is easily handled with proper team support. STAB Sucker Punch is ABSOLutely ridiculous btw (geddit?) and is capable of picking apart teams that rely on something like Scarf Jirachi to outspeed faster threats.
The problem is that neither Krookodile or Machamp are OHKO'd, and they OHKO you back. Mega Absol has the same problems with the meta being bulky that Lucario is currently suffering from. Mega Absol has problems not only getting an SD up but also problems getting its Mega Evolution, as it either needs to KO or force something out, otherwise it'll probably die unless it's something like Umbreon (and even then, you can't SD or Foul Play KOs you). Even at +2, there are defensive and offensive answers.

I'm of the opinion that there's much better Megas to be using right now. Mega Absol was good in a more offensive and stallier meta than this one but with the current situation of bulkiness in many of the common metagame mons, I think it could use a drop to A-.
 

dingbat

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These will probably be the final changes I make before I archive this.

Krook --> A+
Prickly Seed --> C

Stuff I might do:

Entei --> A+
Mega Absol --> A-
Serperior --> A
Mega Amphy --> A
Mega Aero --> S

Stuff I disagree with:

Cresselia --> A
Bronzong --> B

I probably missed something but anyways,

Enjoy the last two minutes of Superbowl XLIX guys.
 
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