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Name a priority move?
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 73-87 (24.5 - 29.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 32.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 69-82 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- 72% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 103-123 (34.6 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Now, that's pretty huge considering that Mega Charizard X is going to take damage against an opponent with an attacking move, and if they don't then that's their mistake considering most things without an attacking move have a status move of sorts like Toxic or T-Wave
Oh well, suit yourself. The huge DRAGON DANCE label just doesn't cut it for me.
First off, Charizard is going to have to take a lot of damage for those attacks to revenge it. And considering how bulky d-dance is a thing, that chance is getting even smaller.
Charizard-X can also run SD and bulky Will-O-Wisp. But just because Pokemon have one set, doesn't mean that they aren't S-Rank. Megagross either runs 4 attacks or RP+3 attacks, yet no one is saying to drop it to A+. Why it is S-Rank is because how well it does those sets, even if they are predictable, there is little to do about them.
What kind of argument is that a pokemon should drop because it is countered by himself?
''M-Metagross should drop because it is countered by another M-Metagross that has EQ''(of course this is just an example, of how ridiculous this argument is, even if there are some minor differences in the actual comparison)
That is what your argument implied against Lando-T.
''Just a pivot''? lol, he scares physical mons just by incoming, cripples ones incoming with knock off, and can 2OHKO(or OHKO) almost all the tier, and on top of that being able to provide momentum, what other pivot does this?
Also is funny that you undersell Lando-T and praise M-Lop in the same post that you said that someone should not undersell and/or praise some specific mons.
Of course I don't think M-Lop should drop, it is not better than M-Metgaross or M-Sableye in what they do, but it does great against a lot of playstyles with one set, alongside being able to support her team if she wants without having a 4MSS unlike M-Meta because of her greats STABs.
She should be S rank because she fits the criteria and is above all A+ ranks.
The problem is is that Lando T is one of the most common (or the most common) pokemon on OU teams, surpassing even the Latis. He is just a pivot with its scarf set. Seriously, might as well just put U turn and Knock off on it because no one uses any other move in worry that they might be locked into it. Its to risky to use EQ or SE on it, thats why people just U turn and Knock Off.
2HKO or OHKO almost all the tier? With what, the Double Dance set? I'm not gonna provide calcs but if i have to I will. If i do im probably gonna be a cockhead and put calcs on extremely bulky mons and no one likes that. I think we all know the mons that can take on Lando.
Honestly, I had extremely mixed feelings while making the original post I made and took almost a half hour of deciding if i want it in S or A+, and honestly i want it in S. I struggled to even make arguments to A+. And I know a lot about the mon.
It may seem like I dont know shit, but I cant represent my posts for shit. I really need to work on that, and obviously ive been getting help because I need to find a posting scheme I can use so i can make my posts much more presentable. Thank you for the rebuttal back, too.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
To begin with, I'd like to point out that I'm addressing the POST and not the POSTER. I respect your logic, and am presenting my own.
In addressing this post, I begin with stating that Choice Scarf Landorus-T is not BY FAR, the most popular set, looking at the OU Suspect-Test Stats from December, roughly 40% of Landorus-T use Leftovers, i.e. the Stealth Rock set, a set that was not even mentioned in your post.
Furthermore, Landorus-T is not "a mere pivot"; the Scarf Landorus-T set makes it one of the BEST offensive pivots in the current meta, which is primarily physical, due to its ability, Intimidate, decent defensive stats, great offensive stats, and access to Ground/Rock coverage. It also makes it one of the best Revenge-Killers in the current meta, being able to revenge-kill mons like Adamant Mega Charizard X at +1, Zard Y, Mega Manectric, Mega Diancie, Latios, Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, Mega Metagross (after a tad of prior damage), and many others with its Ground/Rock/Bug coverage. It is unfortunate being choiced into a move, however that comes with the territory; additionally, as it has access to one of the most spammable moves in the tier i.e. Knock Off, if a switch is obvious, it will be punished. Additionally, as the Scarf set is meant as a Revenge-Killer/Pivot set, Lando-T isn't gonna stay in to be set up on. It'll either revenge-kill and switch out, or threaten a KO and pivot out/knock off a switch, if it's obvious.
Lando-T also has another set, the defensive i.e. the Stealth Rock set, which is still amazing in this current meta. Being able to set up rocks reliably, check Scarf Lando-T, Birdspam, Mega Metagross (to an extent), Mega Beedrill, Mega Charizard X, TTar + Excadrill, and other mons is no small feat. Not to mention the defensive set makes Lando-T an excellent defensive pivot. There are other roles Lando-T fulfills, such as RP Lando-T or Double Dance, however these are much less common.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Lando-T is not a threat. It can either set up rocks on you (SR set), revenge-kill you (scarf set), pivot out predicting your switch, or bop it with a Knock Off (or Explosion, because yolo). Each of these scenarios is quite threatening.
On another note, LO Adamant Bisharp only beats Lando-T 1v1 if Lando-T switches into Bisharp after rocks, giving it the Defiant boost. Otherwise, Lando-T still beats it 1v1.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 192-227 (60.1 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 356-420 (130.8 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
In my opinion, Landorus-T has a relatively high impact on the tier, as it is a Low Risk, High Reward pokemon, which fulfills quite a few roles effectively.
I definitely agree. One thing i just wanted to say is that i meant that bish had to come in when Lando T comes in, therefore making it a shaky check.
The reason i was focusing on the Offensive Scarf set is because its much more threatening than the Bulky SR set. Its really self explanatory: It comes in, has a shitton of bulk to take on physical walls, and Intimidates them.
Also, 40% of people used lando t as a SR setter in OU Suspect? lol.
Wait, why is Sylveon all the way down in B-? The Specs set is one of OU's best offensive Fairies (the fact that it's not a mega should bolster its viability a little). Shouldn't it be somewhere in the A ranks?
Speaking of Sylveon, I'm kinda mixed. First off, how about we compare it to a similar Wallbreaker, Mega Gardevoir in terms of power.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 28 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 160-189 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 28 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 129-153 (48.1 - 57%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Now, the power difference is very high, and although Sylveon is wearing Specs, it still does its job well. Here is the problem im facing: I just dont think it fares well against some Stall pokemon. Tenta, Jirachi, Skarm, etc. all are on stall and are quite frequent. Also, the rise of Steel types in the meta isnt in its favor; which means Hyper Voice isnt as spammable as usual. However, once those Steels are eliminated (with team support, ex. Magnezone, something to handle Steels... etc) Sylveon is a destructive wallbreaker. Almost nothing can safely switch into Sylveon, as i showed with the calc above. The one thing holding it back is the rise of Steel types, and sadly thats one of the main things keeping it in a much higher rank. With the wallbreaking capabilities to destroy basically anything that doesnt resist Fairy, it is an absolute monster. One thing about Sylveon, however, is that it does stop momentum with its Specs set, and being stuck into a move when a Steel comes out isnt good. IMO this thing has what it takes to be in B rank, but its definetly not gonna be the best of the bunch.
^thats from an offensive perspective. Defensive lando is also a very viable set, and scarf comes in and forces witches to the mentioned counters, where u can just u turn to the thing that counters it. Metagross doesn't exactly appreciate ferrothorn, slowbro, etc... Either
Purely by definition of S ranked, it can fulfill multiple roles and its weaknesses can be patched up by its traits such as knocking off items or u turning to gain momentum
From a defensive standpoint i'd argue its outclassed by hippowdon at the moment which can be ev'd to handle electrics and mega lopunny (both lose to common meta metagross moves) whilst having reliable recovery unlike landorus-t. It also beats bisharp which is pretty big deal imo. This is why I think landorus-t should drop. Only its scarf set can it be argued that it is not outclassed and even that loses to Jolly Zard X and now struggles with u-turn/earthquake 50-50s when revenging pokes as jukain pointed out. Landorus=t is a great mon and extremely versatile but not dominant enough to be S rank due to it being easily walled and worn down.
Wait, why is Sylveon all the way down in B-? The Specs set is one of OU's best offensive Fairies (the fact that it's not a mega should bolster its viability a little). Shouldn't it be somewhere in the A ranks?
I've nommed it for B and the general consensus is that that's where it should be. I don't think it should be any higher however because as a fairy wallbreaker it's outclassed by Mega Gardevoir, not to mention it has pissweak physical defence and the speed can really be a letdown. However, it's sheer ability to break down physical walls for other Mega like Pinsir and Gallade means that B- is underselling it way too much imo. Specs 2gud.
Was this before ORAS? It looks like Sylveon's current ranking is based on an outdated version of the metagame. With Mega Sableye and SubCM Keldeo running around, having Sylveon around can be a godsend. Maybe I'm out of touch, but it seems like an A rank-worthy mon to me. The comparison to Gardevoir isn't totally accurate, as they fulfill somewhat different roles. Gardevoir is a dedicated stallbreaker, a Mega that you need to build your team around (kinda), physically frail, and has its Fairy-type resistances neutralized by its Psychic typing.
Sylveon is a bulky Fairy with a LOT of offensive presence, much better support capabilities than Gardevoir, and not a Mega, so it's fairly splashable. They're not really comparable beyond the Pixilate Hyper Voice.
Calcs vs. Mega Sableye and SubCM Keldeo:
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 332-392 (109.2 - 128.9%)
+1 4 SpA Mega Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 88-105 (31.7 - 37.9%)
+1 4 SpA Mega Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 45-54 (11.4 - 13.7%)
They both fare well against Mega Sableye, but look at the difference in damage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 408-480 (126.3 - 148.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 306-360 (94.7 - 111.4%)
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 156-184 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 147-174 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With a Scald burn or some prior damage, Keldeo can beat Sylveon if it's already set up. Hyper Voice will always OHKO, so Keldeo needs to choose whether to boost, or Sub. Not the most reliable check, but it does make Keldeo wary of setting up.
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%)
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%)
I guess I'm just surprised to see it ranked so low. Sylveon's always pulled its weight on my teams, and I thought it was better than B-. Looking at the rankings, it seems like a B+ or A- mon to me.
Was this before ORAS? It looks like Sylveon's current ranking is based on an outdated version of the metagame. With Mega Sableye and SubCM Keldeo running around, having Sylveon around can be a godsend. Maybe I'm out of touch, but it seems like an A rank-worthy mon to me. The comparison to Gardevoir isn't totally accurate, as they fulfill somewhat different roles. Gardevoir is a dedicated stallbreaker, a Mega that you need to build your team around (kinda), physically frail, and has its Fairy-type resistances neutralized by its Psychic typing.
Sylveon is a bulky Fairy with a LOT of offensive presence, much better support capabilities than Gardevoir, and not a Mega, so it's fairly splashable. They're not really comparable beyond the Pixilate Hyper Voice.
Calcs vs. Mega Sableye and SubCM Keldeo:
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 332-392 (109.2 - 128.9%)
+1 4 SpA Mega Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 88-105 (31.7 - 37.9%)
+1 4 SpA Mega Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 45-54 (11.4 - 13.7%)
They both fare well against Mega Sableye, but look at the difference in damage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 408-480 (126.3 - 148.6%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 306-360 (94.7 - 111.4%)
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 156-184 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 147-174 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With a Scald burn or some prior damage, Keldeo can beat Sylveon if it's already set up. Hyper Voice will always OHKO, so Keldeo needs to choose whether to boost, or Sub. Not the most reliable check, but it does make Keldeo wary of setting up.
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%)
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%)
I guess I'm just surprised to see it ranked so low. Sylveon's always pulled its weight on my teams, and I thought it was better than B-. Looking at the rankings, it seems like a B+ or A- mon to me.
I posted it in the last week or so. It should definitely move up and B- is an absolutely ridiculous underselling of it's abilities; but I wasn't sure if it should rise above the B ranks or even just B. Every time I used it it always felt a little shaky thanks to the low speed and physical defence as well as problems against the likes of ferro, but it definitely put in a lot of work.
Going back to Lando, scarf Lando is far more than a 'mere pivot', early game it does little more than pivot, but after seeing how your opponent reacts (eg. switch to flying type) you predict them, which is what makes Lando so good (continuing, stone edge incoming flying type to hit SE). Coupled with intimidate scouting, to weaken physically offensive pokes and basically guaranteeing a KO or 2 V HO due to scarf speed, great base attack and having great utility.
Also, who cares if it's worn down by rocks? It's a pivot without a rock resist, what did you expect? Lacking healing only matters on defensive sets, and there are better defensive rock setters, even on VolTurn IMO. I always run Wish Pass on VolTurn simply due to it's worn down by hazards nature.
I also support Sylveon for A-, it's a great offensive fairy and, unlike other offensive fairies, doesn't take up a mega slot. It's also a great cleric, although Clef is usually the better of the 2 for cleric-ing.
I like Sylveon and I do think it should move up but I'm not sure it's worthy of being in the A ranks. It's a decent cleric but doesn't really matter how strong Hyper Voice is when steels like Heatran still wall it completely since that's the only attacking move it runs. Even if it does have more offensive presence as a cleric than Clefable, Wish/Protect/Heal Bell still makes it a pretty passive mon. The Specs set is really powerful but the coverage moves aren't amazing [Gardevoir really does make Psyshock work a lot better], plus it's really slow. I do think it's underrated however, and I support it moving up to B rank.
As for Lando... who the hell doesn't actually use EQ?? I get that being locked into it can be bad but you simply can't click U-Turn all day. That's like clicking Knock Off with Bisharp every single time... you have to pull the trigger to KO the pokemon in front of you sometimes. Yes there are consequences when you pick wrong, but IMO these are usually worse for your opponent and that's why Scarf Lando-T is still very good. On the fence about the whole thing since I do agree Metagross and Sableye are the undisputed top 2, but Lando-T is 3rd IMO and I'm not sure if he's closer to them or to some of the A+ mons.
So I wanted to recommend Emboar for C+/B-. I have been experimenting with a set that functions as a great lure and is equally as viable and deadly in its own right. I'll post this from the OU thread which has some replays to highlight its effectiveness.
Substitute should be an interesting method of scouting switches the opponent makes and makes it so you don't have to waste recoil damage needlessly. Behind a Sub, you are obviously very deadly with Focus Punch being as strong as Reckless Flare Blitz is for optimum double STAB power. Sucker Punch is obviously nice for priority and allows you to threaten the Lati twins, as Sucker Punch with SR will OHKO either while they try to break your Sub after Life Orb recoil for them. The speed is for outrunning Heatran and Mega Venusaur and others in the 80 speed tier. Wild Charge is needed to break Azumarill, Tentacruel, and Talonflame without SR but that's pretty much it really. Without a boosting item Slowbro isn't 2HKO by Wild Charge, and other waters like Keldeo are handled by SubPunch just fine. It's potentially useful against Starmie too but you do have Sucker Punch or Focus Punch if it uses Reflect Type.
Finally as a last option I actually think Toxic is a good idea. This is actually your best answer for the bulkiest mofos like physical Hippowdon, Mega Slowbro without Rest, Mega Altaria without Heal Bell, Mega Latias, Dragonite, bulky Landorus-T and Cresselia. Without a power boosting item your ability to wall break is legitimately hampered. A combination of Substitute and Toxic however makes you equally dangerous against offense and stall.
I like this idea because it's a good lure. Emboar can threaten out tons of slow bulky mon and hazard setters and the threat of his powerful STABs should easily allow for Subs. This is theoretical at the moment, so I'm not sure how great in practice it'd be. It's possible this is trying to have Emboar do too much at once. It could also be a deceptive lure with the moves to handle more teach archetypes than normal. I'm curious to see.
So while Emboar can make simple Choice Band and Choice Scarf sets work just fine, I think its real viability is in its SubPunch set. While Infernape has great speed and good STABs, Emboar boasts honestly impressive bulk when invested in HP with Leftovers, and its higher attack stat plus Reckless Flare Blitz and Focus Punch being even higher in BP than Infernape's STABs of choice means the power differential is severe.
252+ Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 249-294 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 373-439 (92.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 220-259 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 367-433 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Granted Infernape can use Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, but that initial power difference, especially considering Emboar isn't using a power boosting item, is quite apparent. Add a Choice Band and the difference is night and day. Now many would bring up why use Emboar over Victini to wallbreak? CB V-Create is similar in power, Victini doesn't suffer recoil, has superb 100/100/100 defenses, and is much faster. What Victini has unfortunately is a SR weakness rather than neutrality, and is Pursuit/Sucker Punch weak. Emboar also has priority in Sucker Punch, making it super dangerous for Gengar, Lati@s, Mega Metagross and Starmie, who are all very popular at the moment.
Emboar isn't ranked yet, but its choice sets alone were C material as is, particularly with Greninja gone. But the SubPunch set I honestly feel could be B- at the moment, which people aren't familiar with yet.
OK so this is my second ever post and my first one in over four years, so forgive me if I've messed something up here. I would actually like to nominate Mega Blastoise to C+. It's not at all one of the more popular Megas nowadays and never really was, but I see it as a bit of an underrated threat in the current meta. Mega Blastoise as a spinner may not seem like the best choice. It's not exactly fast like Starmie and unfortunately doesn't have reliable recovery (this is the main thing that really drags it down IMO). But I see merit in the fact that it is a spinner that can handle Mega Sableye without much difficulty at all. Mega Blastoise's good bulk, power, and typing makes it an acceptable check to threats such as Landorus-T, Bisharp, and Heatran.
It's also a very viable option against Mega Slowbro:
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 238-280 (60.4 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It also pairs up pretty well with Celebi, another mon that, while gaining quite a bit of popularity as of late, is still a very underrated and effective threat in this meta. Talonflame is another cool partner for Mega Blastoise, since Mega Blastoise can dispatch of Heatran easily as well as spin rocks off of the field. Talonflame is a good matchup against Toxicroak, another poke that's been more popular lately that Mega Blastoise typically doesn't do too well against.
In any case I think it's certainly better in OU than other C ranked mons like Mienshao (Who should probably go down to C- or D, maybe unranked), and definitely more fitting of the C+ crowd. I feel this is a mon that can be played very effectively when played to its strengths and one that a lot of people seem to overlook nowadays in favor of other Megas. That's understandable, but that's also why we're talking about C+ here.
I've been posting every now and then for a few months about Sylveons viability. Glad people are finally realising how strong she is in ORAS. Sylveon has always beenable to 2HKO a large portion of the metagame and now that her #1 counter Greninja is banned she has near free-roam. Personally i like Sylveon as a lead to bait out the enemy tanks (Heatran,Ferrothorn,Skarmory etc) whenever they are on the enemy team but she can be used in the mid to late game as a powerful wallbreaker as well
In terms of the cleric set i will agree it is weak against steels but your generally not leaving it in against things like Scizor anyway.If running specs Sylveon however and your worried about Heatran just run HP ground. Specs Sylveon always carries either HP fire for ferro,Scizor,Skarm or HP ground for Heatran depending on what your team is weak too. (Few important calcs that i havent seen put up.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 268-316 (69.4 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 384-456 (111.9 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 292-348 (82.9 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 186-219 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 375-442 (137.8 - 162.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 355-418 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 337-397 (88.2 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 337-397 (112.7 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Personally i think she would be best as either B or B+ at the moment as i feel Specs is almost a one trick pony due to its limited movepool with only Hyper Voice, Psyshock, HP fire/ground being viable moves leaving Sylveon to take either Baton Pass or Shadow Ball in the final slot.
Okay I'm not sure if this has gotten much attention but I'd like to see Dragalge rise to B-. Yeah its specs set hits incredibly hard but another really underrated set is a bulky toxic spikes set. It honestly has a lot more bulk than anticipated and functions well with other defensive pokemon like Ferrothorn. IMO toxic spikes are pretty underrated and can put more pressure on opponents. I'm not a pro or anything but I've also seen some SPL matches where Tspikes Dragalge has been great. So yeah, Dragalge for B-
can all of the shitmons that have no place on this list for anything other than masturbatory special snowflake theorymon just be unranked already? seriously, when was the last time you built a team and thought "wow! yes! goodra is what i need!" or "boy, sure do want rotom-h to take up this slot!".
not trying to be a party pooper but seriously, if something is never going to be relevant and people in this thread won't practice what they preach (seriously i bet the majority of people never actually tried flygon arcanine), then it should just be unranked.
would anyone really care if venomoth or chandelure were unranked, or mence or diancie, or haxorus or...
also, whilst i'm at it, mega latios should be unranked or sent to d-rank imo. i get the whole "muh luxury mega. use it if you don't have a mega on your team", but come on, every team has a mega, so it is pretty much a moot point. when have you ever actually used it, when will anyone actually use it?
here's a list of the stuff related to this post:
diancie
haxorus
venomoth
rotom-h
noivern
chandelure
mence
goodra
doublade
mega garchomp (not unranked or d, just lowered)
espeon+smeargle should be sent to d-rank, unless there's something i'm missing and their only use isn't on teams that shouldn't exist
one d-rank mon that is blacklisted
arcanine
idk how well this post is going to be taken, but i just feel like a few things are being ranked for the sake of it.
can all of the shitmons that have no place on this list for anything other than masturbatory special snowflake theorymon just be unranked already? seriously, when was the last time you built a team and thought "wow! yes! goodra is what i need!" or "boy, sure do want rotom-h to take up this slot!".
not trying to be a party pooper but seriously, if something is never going to be relevant and people in this thread won't practice what they preach (seriously i bet the majority of people never actually tried flygon arcanine), then it should just be unranked.
would anyone really care if venomoth or chandelure were unranked, or mence or diancie, or haxorus or...
also, whilst i'm at it, mega latios should be unranked or sent to d-rank imo. i get the whole "muh luxury mega. use it if you don't have a mega on your team", but come on, every team has a mega, so it is pretty much a moot point. when have you ever actually used it, when will anyone actually use it?
here's a list of the stuff related to this post:
diancie
haxorus
venomoth
rotom-h
noivern
chandelure
mence
goodra
doublade
mega garchomp (not unranked or d, just lowered)
espeon+smeargle should be sent to d-rank, unless there's something i'm missing and their only use isn't on teams that shouldn't exist
one d-rank mon that is blacklisted
arcanine
idk how well this post is going to be taken, but i just feel like a few things are being ranked for the sake of it.
I totally agree about rank inflation being terrible, and I'm pretty ambivalent about most of the mons you mentioned. However, I do think Goodra out of all of them definitely deserves to stay. I agree that Goodra is a less than stellar Pokemon in OU, however, it does have a decently sized niche in OU. With an Assault Vest, Goodra is capable of being a huge roadblock to Gengar, Heatran, Mega Charizard-Y, Thundurus, Landorus, Omastar, Mega Manectric, Rotom-W, Magnezone, and many others. It combines an insane Special Defense with respectable offenses, and it can a) hit HARD with Draco Meteor, and b) cover stuff that switches into dragons with Fire / Ground / Poison coverage. It isn't flawless, but it's one of the best bulky offensive answers to Life Orb Gengar in the metagame, and because of that, I think C (or even C+) is acceptable.
Diancie is a decent TR setter, with low base speed, yet it still has good bulk and attack power, as well as cool STAB.
Haxorus has Mold Breaker Taunt, allowing it to fuck over M-Sableye, and it doesn't take up a mega slot unlike M-Gyarados.
I have no opinion on Venomoth.
Rotom-H is a solid Pokemon, with a good typing combined with Levitate. It also checks birdspam, M-Metagross, and M-Altaria.
No opinion on Noivern
Chandelure is a pretty solid Zard-Y check, and I have heard it is a decent TR setter.
ScarfMoxie is the only reason Mence is ranked I believe.
Goodra is a pretty solid special wall, with a good typing and it can dish out lots of damage.
Doublade is a counter to M-Gardevoir. a nice switch into Lati@s, the only Steel type that can't be trapped by Dugtrio and Magnezone, and it has great psychical bulk.
M-Chomp is fine where its at IMO.
Espeon and Smeargle can drop.
Which D-Rank Pokemon is blacklisted?
Arcanine is a check/counter to the likes of Megagross, Lopunny, M-Scizor, M-Beedrill, basically most psychical attackers without a SE move.
can all of the shitmons that have no place on this list for anything other than masturbatory special snowflake theorymon just be unranked already? seriously, when was the last time you built a team and thought "wow! yes! goodra is what i need!" or "boy, sure do want rotom-h to take up this slot!".
not trying to be a party pooper but seriously, if something is never going to be relevant and people in this thread won't practice what they preach (seriously i bet the majority of people never actually tried flygon arcanine), then it should just be unranked.
would anyone really care if venomoth or chandelure were unranked, or mence or diancie, or haxorus or...
also, whilst i'm at it, mega latios should be unranked or sent to d-rank imo. i get the whole "muh luxury mega. use it if you don't have a mega on your team", but come on, every team has a mega, so it is pretty much a moot point. when have you ever actually used it, when will anyone actually use it?
here's a list of the stuff related to this post:
diancie
haxorus
venomoth
rotom-h
noivern
chandelure
mence
goodra
doublade
mega garchomp (not unranked or d, just lowered)
espeon+smeargle should be sent to d-rank, unless there's something i'm missing and their only use isn't on teams that shouldn't exist
one d-rank mon that is blacklisted
arcanine
idk how well this post is going to be taken, but i just feel like a few things are being ranked for the sake of it.
Pretty much all the Pokemon have worth while niches.
Haxorus- Mold breaker. Haxorus is pretty much the best non-mega dragon dancer against stall. It can shut down stuff like Sableye and slowbro. Not to mention Haxorus is extremely powerful. 147 + life orb allows it to hit really hard. If anything, it should move up to C.
Venomoth- Venomoth is niche but quiver pass + sleep makes it worthwhile on very specific teams.
Rotom H - I have not used it, but I have seen it been used quite well on specific teams. I'll give it try and edit this later to prove its worth.
- Noivern can revenge kill multiple offensive Pokemon, as well as shut down certain walls with taunt.
- Chandelure is a pretty effective stalk breaker, and unlike gengar it beats chansey and blissey. Slowbro and venusaur also loose, which is a plus.
Salamance -moxie scarf is a passable cleaner.
Goodra - Pretty decent specially inclined tank, can hit lots of Pokemon for big damage using its coverage moves, such as Ferrothorn and Heatran.
Doubleblade is one of stalls only stops to Mega heracross and gardevoir, which otherwise dismantle the play style.
Mega Chomp is a severly underrated wall breaker, and can muscle past seriously bulky Pokemon such as skarmory. It should not drop (in fact, I see it in B).
Smeargle is the centre of Geopass teams, which are extremely dangerous if you let them get going.
I kind off agree on Espeon, infact, it's thread has been locked, so it should be kicked of the list.
No opinion on mega latios.
Espeon unfortunately has to stay ranked because of cancerpass... //sigh
I honestly find it funny that Megachomp of all things was one of the things you considered for dropping off the list rofl. It has a great niche as a stupidly good mixed wallbreaker on sand offence.
I think everyone can agree Mega-chomp should stay in the B's. - or neutral is fine, but i've used for fun and it worked better than I expected due to the fact bolt beam is kinda rare to see nowadays and HP ice is kinda obvious when you see the mon's come in that have no business being in.
can all of the shitmons that have no place on this list for anything other than masturbatory special snowflake theorymon just be unranked already? seriously, when was the last time you built a team and thought "wow! yes! goodra is what i need!" or "boy, sure do want rotom-h to take up this slot!".
not trying to be a party pooper but seriously, if something is never going to be relevant and people in this thread won't practice what they preach (seriously i bet the majority of people never actually tried flygon arcanine), then it should just be unranked.
would anyone really care if venomoth or chandelure were unranked, or mence or diancie, or haxorus or...
also, whilst i'm at it, mega latios should be unranked or sent to d-rank imo. i get the whole "muh luxury mega. use it if you don't have a mega on your team", but come on, every team has a mega, so it is pretty much a moot point. when have you ever actually used it, when will anyone actually use it?
here's a list of the stuff related to this post:
diancie
haxorus
venomoth
rotom-h
noivern
chandelure
mence
goodra
doublade
mega garchomp (not unranked or d, just lowered)
espeon+smeargle should be sent to d-rank, unless there's something i'm missing and their only use isn't on teams that shouldn't exist
one d-rank mon that is blacklisted
arcanine
idk how well this post is going to be taken, but i just feel like a few things are being ranked for the sake of it.
Arcanine got added because it can check Metagross pretty solidly. That's more because Metagross is pretty centralizing than Arc actually having a niche. Doublade has kinda gone downhill, but it is a good piece for Mega Heracross and Mega Gardevoir weak teams. Very niche, but it's more important than the other stuff you listed imo. Rotom-H also seems like a real C rank mon to me as well because it's got a decent and unique set of resists. The rest I agree with more or less.
I have no opinion on the stuff mentioned at this moment for being so sudden but a lot of the ones mentioned were riding based on theorymon for a very long time. Some of them are pretty bad and not even worthwhile using and you, xcsmj probably missed some lol. I'll give some of these some serious thought though.
can all of the shitmons that have no place on this list for anything other than masturbatory special snowflake theorymon just be unranked already? seriously, when was the last time you built a team and thought "wow! yes! goodra is what i need!" or "boy, sure do want rotom-h to take up this slot!".
not trying to be a party pooper but seriously, if something is never going to be relevant and people in this thread won't practice what they preach (seriously i bet the majority of people never actually tried flygon arcanine), then it should just be unranked.
would anyone really care if venomoth or chandelure were unranked, or mence or diancie, or haxorus or...
also, whilst i'm at it, mega latios should be unranked or sent to d-rank imo. i get the whole "muh luxury mega. use it if you don't have a mega on your team", but come on, every team has a mega, so it is pretty much a moot point. when have you ever actually used it, when will anyone actually use it?
here's a list of the stuff related to this post:
diancie
haxorus
venomoth
rotom-h
noivern
chandelure
mence
goodra
doublade
mega garchomp (not unranked or d, just lowered)
espeon+smeargle should be sent to d-rank, unless there's something i'm missing and their only use isn't on teams that shouldn't exist
one d-rank mon that is blacklisted
arcanine
idk how well this post is going to be taken, but i just feel like a few things are being ranked for the sake of it.
Wont comment on most of that list as i havent played much with them but Noivern is a solid addition on Rain Teams. 2 110+ Base STABS and a 100% accuracy Hurricane with a 123base speed stat is nothing to Scoff at. Add to this it can OHKO Ferrothorn (or 2HKO if rain is up) with flamethrower or focus blast who is a major pain in the ass for rain teams. I feel he is niche enough to stay ranked but thats just personal opinion
If were talking about unranking stuff, I think Froslass and Cloyster are quite irrelevant in the current meta. Destiny bond + cursed body is nice, but other then that, I don't see what makes froslass better then something like Azelf. Cloyster is a extremely mediocre sweeper, as almost every team seems to have an answer to it. I have never used either, but they both seem pretty terrible. If someone could explain to me their worth that would be fine, but I struggle to see why they are ranked.
Ive been using a team with Specs Sylveon in it and I completely agree B- isnt the ideal position for it. Specs puts so much pressure on offensive teams and any stall teams that require Mega sableye just because nothing can switch into a hyper voice. Tran risks the ohko from HP ground while every other steel is 2hkoed (except Sp Def Ferro and Doublade) It also is able to support a wide variety of offensive mons simply because it can easily beat Sableye, who gives many physical attackers trouble, and it can just weaken teams with Hyper Voice spam. Unlike other nukes, Sylveon has enough bulk to switch in on a good deal of mons it threatens, meaning its less reliant on free switches in comparison to something like Mega Garde or CharY. Other than Specs, Sylveon can run a decent cleric set, nothing special but it gets the job done. Overall, Sylveon deserves to be B, although if it went to B+ I wouldnt be mad.
