The Everything NFL Punter Thread - 2014/2015 Season

[some hero]

I agree that rings/wins aren't a good way to judge QBs

but judging them based off stats is equally as bad.

Also The notion of Peyton Manning being a statistically superior QB to Brady is actually somewhat false and can be disproven with some stats and a small level of objective thinking.

Manning led Offenses Throughout his career 27.2 PPG

Brady led Offenses Throughout His career 28.0 PPG

Keep in mind that Manning has Had Decades and Decades Worth of all Pro Talent Compared to Brady. Yet Brady Led offenses are still superior despite Playing with skill position players that are considerably less talented.

Also Keep in Mind that Brady has played Nearly 90% of his games outdoors, in one of the leagues harshest Places to play,

While Manning has played nearly 50% or his career games in a Dome.

There have been 10 Offense in History to Score over 500 Points

5 are quarterbacked by Brady

2 By Manning

Brady Led teams have Topped 500 points in 4 of the last 6 seasons.

Brady Led times also run the ball at the Goal Line considerably more

70.3% of all the TDs scored by Manning teams have come via the pass (521 of 741)
53.1% of all the TDs scored by Brady teams have come via the pass (384 of 588)

Consider How Much Better Brady's stats would be if he threw the ball as much as Manning Does.

Brady has also thrown 377 Tds to 54 different players

Manning has Thrown 513 to 45 different Players

Keep in Mind that Manning has played 3 more season and has changed teams.

Shows How much Brady's receiving core Shifts from year to year.

Its extremely hard to make a case for Manning being superior,

Since Brady CLEARLY Means more to his offense than Manning.

Brady is the single most important offense piece to what has been the league's most dominant offense for about a decade in a half.

All the facts support this.

(these stats are mostly from the mid 2014 season)

I don't think the postseason stats/clutch factor really needs to be addressed either since there's no debate there.

I think Manning is a Top 3 all time QB and I think that the people the criticize him for losing in the
postseason are pretty irrational, but there was absolutely zero case that could have been made for him Being
better than Brady BEFORE Brady won his 4th ring.

So statistically Brady's teams have been better than Peyton? Oh god are you kidding me! Is this what Patriots fans actually believe? First, it's the SB and playoff wins. Those are team accomplishments and Brady get's little to no credit for these. Let alone use them as a way to compare him to another player. Then you go on to Bradys TEAMS being offensively better than Peytons. Oh hey Brady has been in better teams I guess! THEN after that you say that Brady has had the luxury of being consistently able to score TDs in goal to go situations RUNNING THE BALL. Oh he had better offenses than Peyton? You don't say? Could it be because he can score touchdowns running the ball??? We get it, Peyton does more by himself. That's why his stats are vastly superior. Thanks for clearing that up.

If it was than people would say that Eli is better than Peyton but everyone knows that those super bowl trips were flukes. Only 10-6 and 9-7 respectively. And their victories are even bigger flukes because in 2007 Patriots were perfect until that game

How the hell is the Giants win over the 18-0 Pats a bigger fluke than the 9-7 team beating a 15-1 juggernaut on the road? The 2007 Super Bowl wasn't even a fluke if you watch the game.

 

[xJownage]

So statistically Brady's teams have been better than Peyton? Oh god are you kidding me! Is this what Patriots fans actually believe? First, it's the SB and playoff wins. Those are team accomplishments and Brady get's little to no credit for these. Let alone use them as a way to compare him to another player. Then you go on to Bradys TEAMS being offensively better than Peytons. Oh hey Brady has been in better teams I guess! THEN after that you say that Brady has had the luxury of being consistently able to score TDs in goal to go situations RUNNING THE BALL. Oh he had better offenses than Peyton? You don't say? Could it be because he can score touchdowns running the ball??? We get it, Peyton does more by himself. That's why his stats are vastly superior. Thanks for clearing that up.

butthurt little kid and i don't even want to respond to this, but whatever.

Quit twisting his words. You are like the average mainstream media. His teams are better offensively than peyton despite being less talented. At Denver, Peyton has had no lack of RB and WR talent around him while for years brady has used mediocre running backs. If they look good, but suck elsewhere, doesn't that make Brady better since his presence bolstered the performance of those RBs? Why in the world does that make him worse otherwise? Your logic makes no sense. Brady, since 2004 has had obviously worse teams. His best running RB the last 3 or 4 years has been Lagarette Blount (can't even spell his fucking name), who was terrible everywhere else he played besides tampa bay. Suggesting that this makes Brady have a harder time is borderline idiotic.

 

[Captain Skywalker]

How the hell is the Giants win over the 18-0 Pats a bigger fluke than the 9-7 team beating a 15-1 juggernaut on the road? The 2007 Super Bowl wasn't even a fluke if you watch the game.

Both were flukes. Eli was lucky in those games. A 10-6 and 9-7 team defeating a 18-0 and 15-1 team is pure fluke. The Giants were mediocre both years and they've only gotten worse. How was it skill? Lmao the Giants suck. Unfortunately though Eli Manning will be in the HoF for his SB wins against the Pats even though he's mediocre at best. So sad.

 

[some hero]

butthurt little kid and i don't even want to respond to this, but whatever.

Quit twisting his words. You are like the average mainstream media. His teams are better offensively than peyton despite being less talented. At Denver, Peyton has had no lack of RB and WR talent around him while for years brady has used mediocre running backs. If they look good, but suck elsewhere, doesn't that make Brady better since his presence bolstered the performance of those RBs? Why in the world does that make him worse otherwise? Your logic makes no sense. Brady, since 2004 has had obviously worse teams. His best running RB the last 3 or 4 years has been Lagarette Blount (can't even spell his fucking name), who was terrible everywhere else he played besides tampa bay. Suggesting that this makes Brady have a harder time is borderline idiotic.

There's no reason for insults. It doesn't make you look good.

Uh no. Brady doesn't get credit over Peyton for what running backs do. Peyton puts up unmatchable numbers because his offense goes through him and according to pretzels post relies mostly on him. Brady on the other hand can consistently score points running the ball, making his offenses harder to stop. Which is why they average a point more. And spare me the life stories of all these players Brady turns into average/mediocre stars.

Both were flukes. Eli was lucky in those games. A 10-6 and 9-7 team defeating a 18-0 and 15-1 team is pure fluke. The Giants were mediocre both years and they've only gotten worse. How was it skill? Lmao the Giants suck. Unfortunately though Eli Manning will be in the HoF for his SB wins against the Pats even though he's mediocre at best. So sad.

2007 Giants had the best group of DEs I can think of, best pass rush that season and overall a good defense with an average offense. They dominated the Patriots game and earned the win. No fluke or luck about it. The 2011 Giants also beat teams with records of 10-6, 13-3 and 15-1 to then beat a 13-3 team. I guess fluke is being used pretty loosely here? Or maybe the better word is lazily? Or maybe you think fluke is the right word for 8 games all within a very short period of time?

 

[DetroitLolcat]

If you really think Brady's presence makes the Patriots RBs better I'm just going to laugh at you. Maybe it's because Belichick has systems designed for those types of RBs and that's why they can excel in New England while failing elsewhere? It's possible that the best coach in NFL history has more of an effect on bringing out the best in players than the quarterback does.

It's not possible to have a reasonable debate about Brady and Peyton's supporting casts without mentioning that Brady has Bill Belichick while Peyton had an overrated Jim Mora, Tony Dungy (great coach), ultra-conservative Jim Caldwell (coaching style significantly different than present-day Caldwell), and the just plain bad John Fox. Were Peyton's coaches slouches? No. But Brady's coach is arguably the greatest ever.

 

[Stallion]

So the Falcons owner admit to pumping noise into the stadium and barely a mention of it in this thread? Goodbye high first rounder.

 

[macle]

sorry no one cares about actual cheating.

 

[some hero]

If you really think Brady's presence makes the Patriots RBs better I'm just going to laugh at you. Maybe it's because Belichick has systems designed for those types of RBs and that's why they can excel in New England while failing elsewhere? It's possible that the best coach in NFL history has more of an effect on bringing out the best in players than the quarterback does.

It's not possible to have a reasonable debate about Brady and Peyton's supporting casts without mentioning that Brady has Bill Belichick while Peyton had an overrated Jim Mora, Tony Dungy (great coach), ultra-conservative Jim Caldwell (coaching style significantly different than present-day Caldwell), and the just plain bad John Fox. Were Peyton's coaches slouches? No. But Brady's coach is arguably the greatest ever.

Pretty much this. A coach the caliber of Belicheat(as much as I hate him) has a bigger impact on the players than the qb. This is made clear by the actual players from his teams. Even in New England his wide receivers and running backs do not put up great stats or dominate the league. They do what they're supposed to but get attention because it leads to wins. Brady doesn't turn nobodies into stars. Just into winners, which get attention. Belicheat definitely proved he's the biggest reason for New Englands success.

 

[Captain Skywalker]

Anyone got any bold predictions for next season?
Mine is Colts go to Super Bowl with a 14-2 regular season record against the Falcons
Yes I know it's a stretch but with Atlanta getting the founder of the "Legion of boom" they might be a serious contender
As for Indianapolis, I think Duron Carter will be a great move because they get him for cheap, he's a free agent so doesn't cost the draft picks, and he's one of the best CFL players. On top of all this is a need for WRs.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12226738&src=desktop lol Browns

 

[TheValkyries]

You know what's great about these Peyton v Brady arguments now? I can do as the basketball fans do and just say "RIINNNGGSS CLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCH" and no one can possibly refute me. At this point it has now moved to those who doubt Brady's greatness to prove that he isn't.

Kudos to Pretzels for trying to make a more nuanced case for Brady's greatness, and god knows some hero will manage to misconstrue everything we ever say to him, but we can all still fall back on "RIIIIIINGGGGSSS, CLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCH" and also "Post-Salary Cap era" and it's over.

 

[macle]

packers will win at least 10 games

also the colts better go at least 12-4 with their easy schedule.

 

[Killah]

So the Falcons owner admit to pumping noise into the stadium and barely a mention of it in this thread? Goodbye high first rounder.

wow, our first round pick? seems a little harsh, doesn't it? I'm not sure if there's any precedent of someone ADMITTING to pumping in crowd noise, but rumors fly every year on the subject. naturally the Falcons aren't as successful/evil as the PATRIOTS, and pumping in noise isn't as interesting as BALLS are, so apparently no one cares about the story.

since the investigation on exactly what they did is ongoing, I'm not going to speculate (much), but stadiums ARE allowed to "incite the crowd" by adding noise/starting a 3rd down chant/etc, according to a recent change in rules (or so I'm led to believe). I think the stipulation is that it has to stop once the play clock hits 25 seconds, so it possibly wasn't necessarily the "what" of pumping in noise but the "when" of pumping in noise at the wrong/most crucial times.

of course, I may be biased, but I have trouble believing that Seahawks and Chiefs fans are just naturally 20% louder than the average NFL fan, but that's just me :^)


also how could you even blame the Falcons, when the average home game the last 2 years has looked something like this :(


edit: reddit has a short list of stripped draft picks, seems to me that pumping in noise would be around the significance of tampering (5th/6th) and no worse than abusing the salary cap (3rd). naturally deflategate is worse than anything on the list though

 

[Pretzels]

So the Falcons owner admit to pumping noise into the stadium and barely a mention of it in this thread? Goodbye high first rounder.

The NFL should Fine the patriots 1 million dollars and take away their first round draft pick for this imo.

Its only fair.

 

[Captain Skywalker]

packers will win at least 10 games

also the colts better go at least 12-4 with their easy schedule.

Packers winning 10+ games is not a bold prediction because it's going to happen lol. They made it this far they're going to do good next year
Then again the 49ers made it to the championship last year and look how they did Also the Colts probably will. I mean they play the fucking NFC South. That's 4 easy wins

 

[Mr.E]

You know what's great about these Peyton v Brady arguments now? I can do as the basketball fans do and just say "RIINNNGGSS CLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCHCLUTCH" and no one can possibly refute me. At this point it has now moved to those who doubt Brady's greatness to prove that he isn't.

Kudos to Pretzels for trying to make a more nuanced case for Brady's greatness

still used the "talent" argument even though Wayne/Harrison hardly had a career (especially latter) without Manning, so there's only so much we can do to truly figure out how great they were on their own and how much of it was just Manning :[

 

[Pretzels]

still used the "talent" argument even though Wayne/Harrison hardly had a career (especially latter) without Manning, so there's only so much we can do to truly figure out how great they were on their own and how much of it was just Manning :[

Reggie Wayne had a 106/1355 season at age 34 with Andrew Luck at QB and was 40 yards
away from a 1000 yard season with Kerry Collins/Curtis Painter/Dan Orlovsky, so he was pretty damn great without Manning.

Harrison was on pace for a 1000 yard season in 1997 with Jim Harbaugh at QB but got injured, so I'm assuming he'd still be very good if he a decent QB throwing him the ball.

Pierre Garcon Left Peyton and Led the NFL with 113 catches in 2013.

Eric Decker left Peyton and basically had a 1000 yard season with some of the worst QB play in the NFL this season.

Demaryius Thomas was torching defenses when Tim Tebow was his QB.

The Talent Argument can definitely be used. Its no question that Manning makes his receivers better, but he's arguably had the best skill position talent in NFL history at his disposal, which directly correlates with his statistical dominance.

I mean, can you give me ONE GAME where manning hasn't had a pro bowl level offensive player at his disposal?

 

[WaterBomb]

Reggie Wayne had a 106/1355 season at age 34 with Andrew Luck at QB and was 40 yards
away from a 1000 yard season with Kerry Collins/Curtis Painter/Dan Orlovsky, so he was pretty damn great without Manning.

Harrison was on pace for a 1000 yard season in 1997 with Jim Harbaugh at QB but got injured, so I'm assuming he'd still be very good if he a decent QB throwing him the ball.

Pierre Garcon Left Peyton and Led the NFL with 113 catches in 2013.

Eric Decker left Peyton and basically had a 1000 yard season with some of the worst QB play in the NFL this season.

Demaryius Thomas was torching defenses when Tim Tebow was his QB.

The Talent Argument can definitely be used. Its no question that Manning makes his receivers better, but he's arguably had the best skill position talent in NFL history at his disposal, which directly correlates with his statistical dominance.

I mean, can you give me ONE GAME where manning hasn't had a pro bowl level offensive player at his disposal?

I think your examples of players that left Manning's team and went elsewhere are not so much examples of their talent, but more the fact that they were almost literally the ONLY target to throw to in their new homes. Garcon and Decker both went to crappy teams without any WRs, so achieving the numbers they did on sheer volume is more likely than them being overly talented. I'm not saying they are BAD, but they certainly aren't the overwhelming talent you're implying.

Also if you want to use the talent argument against Peyton, why has nobody mentioned that Brady has had Wes Welker, Randy Moss and Gronkowski to throw to. Even in his earlier years he wasn't throwing to scrubs.

On the flip side, look at the WRs that came to Peyton's team and subsequently improved by huge amounts. Emmanuel Sanders was a middling WR in Pittsburgh, then absolutely exploded in Denver.

 

[Deschain]

my bold prediction is the Jaguars go 7-9.

 

[Captain Skywalker]

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12277786 it's not even a week into the offseason and shit like this happens. GG NFL
He's on my team too :c
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12278830 lol Cleveland can't avoid trouble can they?

 

[TheValkyries]

On the flip side, look at the WRs that came to Peyton's team and subsequently improved by huge amounts. Emmanuel Sanders was a middling WR in Pittsburgh, then absolutely exploded in Denver.

Emmanuel Sanders was middling in one of the top receiving corps in the league then went to Denver and did what he had previously been doing. GOOD OBSERVATION.

Also, look at Wes Welker who left from Tom Brady to the Broncos and played far better than he did with Brady. Hmm? Oh that's the opposite of what happened? Oh, I see... nvm then.

EDIT: LOOK AT ALL THESE RINGS. JUST THE CLUTCHIEST.

 

[WaterBomb]

Emmanuel Sanders was middling in one of the top receiving corps in the league then went to Denver and did what he had previously been doing. GOOD OBSERVATION.

Also, look at Wes Welker who left from Tom Brady to the Broncos and played far better than he did with Brady. Hmm? Oh that's the opposite of what happened? Oh, I see... nvm then.

EDIT: LOOK AT ALL THESE RINGS. JUST THE CLUTCHIEST.

Lol I wasn't even using that to discount Brady, just showing that the talent argument being used to discredit Peyton can be applied almost anywhere. Brady is still, to me, a serious contender for GOAT.

 

[Captain Skywalker]

Lol I wasn't even using that to discount Brady, just showing that the talent argument being used to discredit Peyton can be applied almost anywhere. Brady is still, to me, a serious contender for GOAT.

Sorry Montana is still GOAT

 

[macle]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...een-bay-packers-arrested-marijuana-possession

moron

 

[Del Rio]

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015...riots-parade-marshawn-lynch-seahawks#comments

Do stay classy, Pats... and remember, Blount, Beast Mode is 10 times the RB you'll ever be.

 

[some hero]

I just realized, the national anthem have been terrible lately in the super bowl. It's my favorite part of each game and the super bowl national anthem always makes me cry. Well not anymore I mean. The last time I cried was in sb 43(although I did cry a little in sb 47 when those kids were singing America the Beautiful). This year or last sunday I completely forgot that I always look forward to the performance of the song. Ever since they removed the orchestras they have been complete shit. Super Bowl 42 is still the greatest ever and I get a sense of awe every time I see Randy Moss in the sidelines.

It's over guys. The season is over. And I feel empty. Last year I got back into Yugioh and the 7 months went by extremely fast. But now with the way things ended I feel lost. I feel like I should have appreciated this season more. I'm sad but deep deep inside i'm actually a little excited for next season already. I don't know... Just wanted to tell you guys not to take the players we have for granted. Even if I talk smack about Brady all the time I consider myself a huge Brady fan and appreciate all the games he has been dominant in. The Josh Gordon ban is really a devastating blow to the game. Rice and Peterson were wronged. I'm just rambling my thoughts now. Anyway I can't wait for Odell Beckham jr to become the first WR to win the MVP next year after coming off the greatest wr rookie season ever(he was statistically better than Randy Moss). And props to stone cold for predicting his breakout season. Yes I've come around on the guy.