Spiky shield is used to check basically what opponent is trying to do. Playing on the safer side. Shell smash seems viable.
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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter verbatim
- Start date
here's a nifty experimental set I've been testing for the recent chatterquaza upsurge.
Gigazowler (Aerodactyl-Mega) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Ascent
- Diamond Storm
It does pretty well andis a decent hitter besides just rayquaza, e.g. the regenerator regis, for their nuzzle/sacreds.. The caveat ofc is that it cannot heal with AV. Feel free to try it without AV too though. Other options include: Sacred Fire, Nuzzle, Infestation or anything with a secondary effect, since Chansey cannot harm you with them.
Gigazowler (Aerodactyl-Mega) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Ascent
- Diamond Storm
It does pretty well andis a decent hitter besides just rayquaza, e.g. the regenerator regis, for their nuzzle/sacreds.. The caveat ofc is that it cannot heal with AV. Feel free to try it without AV too though. Other options include: Sacred Fire, Nuzzle, Infestation or anything with a secondary effect, since Chansey cannot harm you with them.
weve come so far gentlemen
Scarfed/Vested mega tyranitar with shield dust is also pretty neat way to counter chatters and various rayquaza variants outside protean.
It also has the bonus to keep imposters away cause who the hell would switch into obvious knock off?
It also has the bonus to keep imposters away cause who the hell would switch into obvious knock off?
that's a good shout as well for koff damage, although most of the galers have EP which is why I went for aero, along with the speed tier, since even if you resist the chatter, you're done for if they decide to go +3.
Little Miss Hands (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Safety Goggles/Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws/Magic Guard
EVs: 252+ Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Shell Smash
- Spiky Shield/Substitute
- Hyperspace Fury
- Extreme Speed
I have long theorymoned this but I'm not sure if it's plausible in actual play.
Imposter Proof? Check. Shedinja check? Check. Ate check? Check. Prankster Spore mitigation? Check. Bombardability of Steel Types with Tough Claws? Check.
Alternatively, you can go Magic Guard Life Orb to push for a KO on Steels (MGuard also stops Curse abuse). Mega Diancie would still be a problem. Not so much if you use Sub to sneak in some damage before switching.
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E speed makes it not imposter proof cause hoopa-u isnt ghost naymore
You could consider hustle for the 1.5x boost due of hyperspace having no accuracy check.
You could consider hustle for the 1.5x boost due of hyperspace having no accuracy check.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Honestly, I dislike this kind of mentality.
I think there's too much people that look at something they think they can't beat and just want it gone or who give shit to the people who use it.
Obviously Assist PDon's broken and 90% of BH players know it, this is more about the latter. Giving people shit who just want to use the most effective thing is the most disgusting thing you can do. It encourages aggressiveness in the community (which I'm all for, but when everybody does it, it can be a problem) to people that don't really deserve it. What if those people just want to win? What if assist don is just a fun way to play for them? Sure it's broken, so ban it or nerf it, but don't blame the players. Don't EVER blame the players. If we tarnish the competitive spirit of respecting the desire to use the thing that's the most likely to win, then it's a huge blow to the competitive spirit.
I don't like all this "playing for honor, don't use OP stuff that hasn't been banned yet" that goes on in communities. Just play to win, why should we complicate things, of course if things are banned, they are banned. But if something is freed, then it's not our job to judge upon the players who choose to use it. We're not radiant heros bound to bring honor to BH, we're players who want to see a good metagame (and community) being played, so don't give shit or give salt/be mad against Assist Don players.
Remember, we're all just One Unit trying to do one thing, make BH more played, more known, and have a better community. No reason to give each other shit for team choice.
Not a big issue per-se , but I just wanted to bring a couple things to light.
I completely agree with you. At the end of the day, people are going to use what's going to win, even if it is completely sad (Assist P-Don) or completely unfair (Huge Power MM2X from an age ago). That's the reason their are bans and checks/counters. Believe me, if assist P-Don was un counterable, it would be gone. Maybe it is. But if people start blaming the players for using something that A. Isn't banned or B. Isn't being suspected. If you really want to blame it on someone, ask someone in the BH council about it!Monte Cristo said:
We don't have a BH Council though. We have Verbatim and the rest of us voice our opinions on stuff.
But regardless, there's general consensus that Assistdon spam is unhealthy for the meta and needs to go. (Or, at the very least, I have yet to see anyone defend it.) The issue is nobody seems to agree on how it needs to go, whether that be ridding us of Assist, TArrows, Groudon-P, or implementing species clause.
And honestly, I'd say Assistdon is worse for the meta than crap like Huge Power was, despite maybe being less broken. I mean, at least with Huge Power you had a variety of users ranking from Slaking to Xtwo to Terrakion to Kyu-B to so on and so on. With Assistdon, you have... Groudon, Groudon, Groudon, Groudon, and his support friends, Chanposter and Chatterquaza.
And personally, other than the temptation to make a Keldeo Assist-spam team just to flip the bird at Assistdon, the homogenization of the tier really makes me not want to play. Heck, I'll support* Parental Bond and Huge Power unbans if it means we get more variety.
*Not really
But regardless, there's general consensus that Assistdon spam is unhealthy for the meta and needs to go. (Or, at the very least, I have yet to see anyone defend it.) The issue is nobody seems to agree on how it needs to go, whether that be ridding us of Assist, TArrows, Groudon-P, or implementing species clause.
And honestly, I'd say Assistdon is worse for the meta than crap like Huge Power was, despite maybe being less broken. I mean, at least with Huge Power you had a variety of users ranking from Slaking to Xtwo to Terrakion to Kyu-B to so on and so on. With Assistdon, you have... Groudon, Groudon, Groudon, Groudon, and his support friends, Chanposter and Chatterquaza.
And personally, other than the temptation to make a Keldeo Assist-spam team just to flip the bird at Assistdon, the homogenization of the tier really makes me not want to play. Heck, I'll support* Parental Bond and Huge Power unbans if it means we get more variety.
*Not really
I do not think that unbanning Pure/Huge Power, Parental Bond, or No Guard moves would fix much, personally. And IMO Wonder Guard is out of the picture, assuming we wish to keep this meta separate from Pure/Classic Hackmons
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
so everybody wants to ban this thing(Don teams) and has for a long ass time, and then rumors makes a somewhat joke about unbanning things and then we're doing the latter? No offense but things sounds kinda odd lol
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
i...is...verbatim...trolling? ._. what even comes remotely close to being even worth considering for a unban? other then parental bond(which although cancerous, is perhaps the closest thing i can think of), every other thing would be like cancer to the tier. if you put parental bond down, you KNOW im voting for dat back. not because its healthy, but because i miss my old yveltal set ;~; #cri
Honestly I feel that if we're gonna unban anything, it should be arena trap. Honestly I don't see it being overwhelmingly broken, but we don't really know how it pans out do we? Also arena trap woactually make the meta not brainless in the fact that you have to be much more careful when making your plays. I'm not saying that arena trap shouldn't get unbanned but I just wouldn't be opposed to a retest. If you disagree please be constructive and don't ruin the thread by posting useless one liners.
While I don't think unbans would be a good idea, I would be supportive of unbanning Pbond and taking a look at HP/PP even, and changing the ability clause to a strict 1 per team. I still maintain that 2 is an entirely arbitrary number.
Not gonna happen though..
Besides, Lcass was not talking so much about the people who get the nominal rank I think, but the airs that they seem to put on afterwards, acting as if they have done some great accomplishment by copying an RMT of something that itself was originally a brainchild of *ahem* "someone else" and then spamming it by exploiting the fact that it is out of the usual meta playstyle. Let's face it, noone likes that condescending guy who talks about his rank to show off that he's better, and it's even worse when they use a mindless strategy to achieve it in the first place.
E.g.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-205523570 Please refer to turn 35 where someone was actually boasting to me about their rank with the assist team after I defeated them rather handily.
Not gonna happen though..
While I agree that it's too much to expect people to run on an "honor code" and not use certain sets, I don't think there is anything wrong with judging people on what they use and it will happen whether you tell people to or not. Just as there is appreciation for people who create new imaginative sets there will be a little disdain for people who use something that is unfair to the majority of the meta to win. By the "play to win" mentality, nobody should then have a problem with Swagplay,evasion, ate spam, funbro and time wasting strategies that result in unfair "wins". Note that I don't think that assist is something I "can't beat and just want...gone" since I don't even care if assist is banned or not.
Besides, Lcass was not talking so much about the people who get the nominal rank I think, but the airs that they seem to put on afterwards, acting as if they have done some great accomplishment by copying an RMT of something that itself was originally a brainchild of *ahem* "someone else" and then spamming it by exploiting the fact that it is out of the usual meta playstyle. Let's face it, noone likes that condescending guy who talks about his rank to show off that he's better, and it's even worse when they use a mindless strategy to achieve it in the first place.
E.g.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-205523570 Please refer to turn 35 where someone was actually boasting to me about their rank with the assist team after I defeated them rather handily.
Note that this was the first thing anyone said all battle, meaning I did not provoke him other than probably frustrating him that he couldn't troll someone else. Also Idk about you, but someone who is "playing to win" cause he can't do it otherwise wouldn't name his mons provocative names like "TROLLING". Many people just go out of the way to make other people's experience harmful and then talk about their rank.
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>Wanting to unban Parental Bond
OH BOY cant wait to bring back super fang + shade
Seriously, even tho with ability clause it wouldnt be as bad as it was back then, I still think parental bond is bit too much power.
Eitherway I'm gona look forward to see what the assist don poll will be like.
OH BOY cant wait to bring back super fang + shade
Seriously, even tho with ability clause it wouldnt be as bad as it was back then, I still think parental bond is bit too much power.
Eitherway I'm gona look forward to see what the assist don poll will be like.
this is for curiosity's sake more then argument's sake, I am not arguing for or against groudon/assist/arrows
Isn't funbro releated to the endless battle clause? Which by definition, is an example of NOT playing to win? Are you arguing that it tries to win via concedes or something?
again, for curiosity's sake:
but i thought this was an effective(even broken) set? apparently it is not trash and, apparently, it can win x:
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yes this is what i mean, it wins by taking advantage of outside factors such as patience and time.
more in the sense that it has no thought or creativity, since it involved mostly copy pasting an RMT and mindlessly spamming. also, like many other gimmicks, if you actually prepare for it, it is easy to beat; the point is that by preparing for it you are naturally exposing yourself to other threats that are more common, just so you don't lose to this. I personally think spamming is nonsense, and this isn't the first time, if anyone remembers the darmans from gen5.
Don't blame people for wanting to use things that will win. Speaking of BH not having a council, is it time to introduce one? (maybe, maybe not, idk). Oh and please be joking about unbanning P-Bond/Huge Power. Remember why those things were banned. I really hope you people were not seriously considering it. I do however agree on a Assist + TArrows ban.
I think this issue with Assist-Spam is interesting. On one hand people using these teams are getting to the top of the ladder with these teams without any skill or creativity, which I definitely think is toxic for the meta. On the other hand it encourages people to be more creative with their teambuilding and to play more skillfully in order to consistently beat these teams, which are both things that are good for the meta. It's kind of similar to Shedinja in that a team that is unprepared gets completely destroyed; however, it's much more difficult to prepare for. This wouldn't be an issue if there was a hard P-Don counter that wasn't completely useless elsewhere, but I don't think that exists. (well, Focus Sash + Tail Glow + Gale Wings would probably work, but that gets killed by Chansey, which almost all of these teams run)
The difference between Assist spam and Shedinja is Shedinja actually requires thought and skill to use effectively. AssistDon requires neither. Press Assist. You win 80% of the time.
I personally hope we just ban Assist and remove the issue entirely. Thousand Arrows is a brilliant coverage option on many mons and isn't broken without Assist, imo. I guess I could see it still being a minor issue with CB Primal Groudon, since it's perfect coverage and STAB, but whatever.
Just please get the ball rolling on this suspect discussion/vote soon so I can actually play this tier again.
I personally hope we just ban Assist and remove the issue entirely. Thousand Arrows is a brilliant coverage option on many mons and isn't broken without Assist, imo. I guess I could see it still being a minor issue with CB Primal Groudon, since it's perfect coverage and STAB, but whatever.
Just please get the ball rolling on this suspect discussion/vote soon so I can actually play this tier again.
Edit: Oops, don't think I thought this suggestion through, I don't think it may even be possible.
But, I will say one thing, if thousand arrows isn't broken without assist,, wouldn't you say the issue is both of them together? Not assist or arrows alone?
But you can't complex ban them together(my original suggestion), since groudoun doesn't actually have arrows. :P
But, I will say one thing, if thousand arrows isn't broken without assist,, wouldn't you say the issue is both of them together? Not assist or arrows alone?
But you can't complex ban them together(my original suggestion), since groudoun doesn't actually have arrows. :P
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