ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Thisbemyalt]

This may be a bit premature but since serp has a pretty good chance of being gone for awhile I nominate shaymin for A

This should be pretty obvious but UU is bulky water the tier and frankly serp, raikou, and celebi being gone shaymin is one of the best answer for bulky waters in general while also covering our ground types. So yeah not gonna write too long of a post cause I am leaving soon but I would like to ask the thread on their opinions on new bulky water options that might gain usage with serp ban including hera (didnt need serp ban for usage but handles bulk waters well), Helio, shaymin, etc.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Forretress to A-. Custap Lead is the shit.

 

[Tymano]

Heliolisk to B
With the subtraction of Serperior from UU, Heliolisk suddenly has become one of the tiers best counters to bulky-waters, which have become much better in this meta due to a lack of Serperiors. As an extra way to counter these waters, it has dry skin so it can switch into a scald or surf, and a Thunderbolt can do a lot of damage.
Against Crocune-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 304-359 (75.2 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Against Vaporeon-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 200 HP / 56+ SpD Vaporeon: 304-359 (67.4 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Against Tentacruel-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 289-343 (80 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Against Empoleon-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 242-289 (65 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Against Blastoise-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 304-359 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

At the same time, it is able to hit the tier's ground for a lot of damage with a grass knot or HP Ice.
Against Krookodile-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 268-317 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Against Gligar-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 286-338 (85.6 - 101.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Against Donphan-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 380-447 (104.3 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Swampert-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 442-520 (110.2 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Mega Swampert-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 468-551 (127.5 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

Against Flying Types, Grass Types, and Dragons, HP Ice does a lot of damage.
Against BulkyMence-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 364-432 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Against Mega Aero-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 354-421 (117.6 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Crobat-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 406-478 (108.8 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Mega Scep-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 348-411 (123.8 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against Shay-252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 151-179 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.

Even against all of these commonly used Mons, Heliolisk shines through as a powerful mon, and having 109 SpA and 109 Spe allows it to outspeed many of these threats, so Heliolisk to B.

 

[r0ady]

So dont think im crazy for suggesting this as i havent actually had the chance to test it out, but since the main healing wish mon in rachi has left the tier, perhaps mesprit can find a home on the viability rankings list.

Sure theres shaymin but it tends not to find room for it, and mesprit being the ridiculously versitile pokemon it is could find a home on some teams and provide that lovely healing wish support.

ATM i just wanted to start a discussion around it, all start testing it once i find the time to team build.

 

[Banan123]

Okay, I have a lot of free time lately so here are my thoughts about some mons:

Jolteon from Unranked to B-/B. I'm suprised that no one have mentioned it yet. Now with Raikou gone Jolt has almost no competition except Heliolisk. That's the reason why i want to compare these two. First of all Jolteon is better in every single stat(Heliolisk: 62/55/52/109/94/109- Jolteon: 65/65/60/110/95/130). The most important is obviously speed so I made a list of things that Jolteon can outspeed and Heliolisk can't:

List

Crobat
Alakazam
Mega Pidgeot
Mega Absol
Azelf
Sceptile (before going mega)
Froslass
Noivern
Tornadus
+1 adamant Feraligatr
Dugtrio
timid Magneton w/ scarf
jolly Emboar w/ scarf
Mega Houndoom
Espeon
Whimsicott
speed tie with Aerodactyl

Free switch on bulky waters is always nice, but Toxicroak does this job better being immune to toxic and getting a free set up. The only thing that grass knot OHKOs without the rocks are Swamperts so it's very situational. I feel like Jolteon and Heliolisk should be on the same rank just because Helios is much better choice for weather teams.

Crobat from A+ to S. I'm lazy so go to page 8 and read about it. Arguments haven't changed too much. However with Rachi and Raikou gone and Heracross being a huge threat it's far more useful.

Agree with Mesprit being ranked. Azelf outclasses it as an offensive mon, but Mesprit can set rocks or screens up and still takes some hits. As mentioned before it's really versatile with a lot of offensive and supportive moves. I think it deserves at least C rank.

Also can someone explain to me why Rotom-C and Rotom-H are in the same rank?

 

[Schpoonman]

Rotom-C can switch in on virtually every bulky water in the tier and threaten them out with Leaf Storm and/or Electric STAB, while Rotom-H is one of the tier's best Flying and Steel (though Jirachi was really the last big offensive one) checks. Other than that, they operate fairly similarly.

 

[ManOfMany]

I'm still very iffy about Crobat going into S rank.. While no one can deny its great utility in defog and taunt, and ability to check other offensive pokemon due to its speed, it is still walled by every steel and rock pokemon in existence, not to mention bulky electric types like Ampharos and Eelektross (Eel is good, use it). The situation becomes that, if one of these pokemon is in the game, Crobat has to keep u-turning around again and again until they're eliminated because you never want to give a free switch to something like Cloyster or Omastar, and so it becomes utterly useless at anything except keeping momentum.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I'm still very iffy about Crobat going into S rank.. While no one can deny its great utility in defog and taunt, and ability to check other offensive pokemon due to its speed, it is still walled by every steel and rock pokemon in existence, not to mention bulky electric types like Ampharos and Eelektross (Eel is good, use it). The situation becomes that, if one of these pokemon is in the game, Crobat has to keep u-turning around again and again until they're eliminated because you never want to give a free switch to something like Cloyster or Omastar, and so it becomes utterly useless at anything except keeping momentum.

Except momentum is the most important thing in a match because its literally how you win games, if crobat can keep constant momentum despite the existence of counters that means its doing its job also srs cloyster and omastar...

 

[Banan123]

I'm still very iffy about Crobat going into S rank.. While no one can deny its great utility in defog and taunt, and ability to check other offensive pokemon due to its speed, it is still walled by every steel and rock pokemon in existence, not to mention bulky electric types like Ampharos and Eelektross (Eel is good, use it). The situation becomes that, if one of these pokemon is in the game, Crobat has to keep u-turning around again and again until they're eliminated because you never want to give a free switch to something like Cloyster or Omastar, and so it becomes utterly useless at anything except keeping momentum.

I'm probably stupid for using that but nasty plot set works well for me and has ability to deal with steel (heat wave) and rock types (giga drain). Giga drain also kills Swamperts and keeps Crobat healthy. Really underrated set imo.

 

[Hogg]

Because apparently I've been the champion of underrated grass types lately...

I think Tangrowth needs to be rated, probably in B- (although a case could even be made for B). It's a pretty excellent mixed pivot, able to switch into anything Salamence throws at it and fire back with HP Ice off of 110 base SpAt. While it faces competition from Amoongus, who has better defensive typing and Spore, Tangrowth actually has solid offensive presence with Knock Off, Leaf Storm, EQ, etc. off of very decent mixed attacking stats. It also has better uninvested defense than 252+ Amoongus, meaning it can focus on offenses or shoring up its weaker SpDf side.

I'd been playing around with the AV set as a mixed pivot to take on both Mence and bulky waters, and I've been pretty happy with it. It fits on offensive teams far better than the mushroom in my opinion, since unlike Amoongus it actually hits hard outside of Foul Play and isn't a momentum sink. Amoongus is still arguably more useful for stall and some balance teams, but I definitely think Growth has a place.

I'll post replays when I'm not on my phone.

Also, I think Kyurem deserves A-. It's a serious threat in this meta. Ice is a fantastic attacking type in this meta, and Kyurem has the strongest Ice Beam in the tier. It has good bulk, strong offense and a wide variety of sets that work on just about every playstyle. SubRoost is fantastic and sets up on basically every water type, and stall loves having a D-tail shuffler to replace Zygarde. Choice Specs is underrated and hits like a truck. Scarf Kyurem can fire off fast Ice Beams to take out a ton of top tier threats. LO mixed Kyurem is one I haven't seen used much lately (and admittedly has some stiff competition from Hydreigon), but is still a threat.

I know I've got some good replays of SubRoost Kyurem kicking around, so I'll post them soon too. I'll try to get some replays of other Kyurem sets as well.

 

[pipasonze]

Supporting Kyurem for A-.
The only set I've used is Specs, and I haven't seen any kyurem lately, but subroost also looks quite good. Anyway, specs kyurem is a good wallbreaker. It's very strong, Ice is an amazing attacking type and dragon STAB is great too, and it has very good coverage with just that and earth power (it gets focus blast too). Most teams don't have a single pokemon that isn't 2hko'd by this frigid monster, and kyurem is a lot better now, with the departure of jirachi, because other steel types, that can switch in on kyurem' stabs, are not as common.

Kyurem's typing gives it terrible weaknesses to rock and fighting, but also interesting resistances to water, grass and electric along with a neutrality to ice. So, with its good natural bulk, kyurem actually finds switch-in opportunities.

I think (specs) kyurem can be compared to Entei in that it needs some support (hazard removal) but can find opportunities to blow holes in the opposing team, supporting its teammates.
However it has trouble getting a chance to switch in sometimes, and is easily forced out by faster fighting or dragon types, which are common.

Adding that to the utility of its other sets and its versatility and some unpredictability, I think Kyurem deserves A-.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-208775122 - Here's a somewhat decent replay that shows kyurem 2hko'ing a florges after a bit of prior damage, making mega blastoise a huge threat to the other team.

 

[Wobbuffet0]

Why is Trevenant still in UU. Please let it fade in usage, it is not that good. How has it lasted in this tier for so long?

 

[Zartres10]

When is serperior being tested?

 

[slated]

When is serperior being tested?

After ULT, so in about 2 weeks.

 

[DragonAscent]

Jolteon stuff

I think B- is fair; while jolt does have better stats (notably speed), it's ability and movepool pale in comparison to helio's. They seem equal to me, as far as viability's concerned.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Why is Trevenant still in UU. Please let it fade in usage, it is not that good. How has it lasted in this tier for so long?

Trevenant is basically the Ambipom of UU lel, just gotta wait

also it's not like cloyster or omastar gets to setup for free considering it's highly possible for crobat to be running Taunt anyway >_>"

 

[Amauri da Silva Junior]

I am surprised that Mega Beedrill is still a UU pokémon. It takes a lot of trouble for many teams in OU. Today I'll bukd a UU team for a champion and Mega Beedrill is one pokémon that I already decided to choose.

Does anyone uses Choice Scarf Honchkrow?

 

[boltsandbombers]

I am surprised that Mega Beedrill is still a UU pokémon. It takes a lot of trouble for many teams in OU. Today I'll bukd a UU team for a champion and Mega Beedrill is one pokémon that I already decided to choose.

Does anyone uses Choice Scarf Honchkrow?

Choice Scarf Honchkrow is fairly mediocre, as the wallbreaking power and ability to switch up moves with the standard life orb set is much more useful than the extra speed.

 

[Pokemoon]

well, since i've done my 200 post rmt, i guess i can post now. YAY!

i support crobat to S rank!

i also support heliolisk to b rank.

jolteon to b- rank. it has nice coverage, and now that raikou is out of the tier it's the fastest (i think?) electric type in the tier. it's still frail, and it doesnt have the amazing coverage options heliolisk has, but it still needs to be above C rank, even unranked imo.

 

[warzoid]

Granbull to B+

Granbull's viability has improved a lot with the new drops. Physically defensive Granbull is one of the hardest counters to Heracross, and it also shuts down most physical Salamence.

 

[North]

I am surprised that Mega Beedrill is still a UU pokémon. It takes a lot of trouble for many teams in OU. Today I'll bukd a UU team for a champion and Mega Beedrill is one pokémon that I already decided to choose.

Does anyone uses Choice Scarf Honchkrow?

Beedrill isn't really a threat in the tier mostly because of crobat being an amazing counter to it. As far as OU goes, it's a steel tier and Mega Bee doesn't really appreciate steel types even with drill run.

 

[dingbat]

It's about time

Changes to be edited on this post this afternoon
----------------------------------------------------------
Here are the changes:

Forry --> A- Custap Forry is the shit.
Slowking --> A- Fits really well on bulky offense and has the capacity to check a bunch of extremely common threats (dodmen's nom)
Heliolisk --> B Raikou leaving gave this a chance to show off its fantastic ability to hit a wide range of threats in this meta.
Mega Abomasnow --> B+ Jirachi leaving this tier (dodmen's nom)
Yanmega --> A- I don't think this is any better than Mega Shark atm, and it definitely needs more support to clean (dodmen's nom)
Shaymin --> A Serperior leaving makes this the premier Grass-type wallbreaker once again.
Mesprit --> C Fills in a couple holes that the departure of Celebi left, but is otherwise mediocre.
Lucario --> A "Fuck rachi"
Froslass --> B+ It woulda been A- if Custap didn't get released. Also, rachi leaving helped it out a little (meru's overdued nom)
Jolteon --> C It has a major speed advantage over all the other electric types, but its coverage is close to literal shit.
Tangrowth --> C It's outperformed as a grass type in this meta by Shaymin, Roserade, and Amoonguss, but it's definitely got some cool qualities that I feel give it a small niche here.
Granbull --> B+ Cockblocks choiced Heracross and is a pretty decent check to Salamence (lacking Iron Tail)

Stuff I'd like to hear some (more) discussion on:

Crobat --> S
Hydreigon --> S
Rotom-Mow --> A-
Kyurem --> A-

 

[Hydratic]

So dont think im crazy for suggesting this as i havent actually had the chance to test it out, but since the main healing wish mon in rachi has left the tier, perhaps mesprit can find a home on the viability rankings list.

Sure theres shaymin but it tends not to find room for it, and mesprit being the ridiculously versitile pokemon it is could find a home on some teams and provide that lovely healing wish support.

ATM i just wanted to start a discussion around it, all start testing it once i find the time to team build.

Unfortunately Mesprit is underwhelming in uu. After using it in Research Week, I could barely get past ~1330 on the ladder with it. Yes, it does have a smaller niche in uu due to its decent defenses and access to healing wish, but there is a lot better choices for a healing wish mon. If you really want one use Alomolola or Lunar Dance Cress. Defensive Mesprit is kind of lame in uu. It can be a mediocre pivot if you really want it to be. However, CM Mesprit does fairly well in uu. I ran enough speed on my Mesprit to out speed 144 jolly herracross and max speed honch. This allowed me to just run through them with Ice Beam and Psyshock. Mesprit can also run ice beam for mence which is nice as well. Overall, if we wanted to rank Mesprit I would nominate it for C+

 

[Schpoonman]

How did you run through Honchkrow with a Psychic-type without Sub or burning all of its Sucker Punches first?

 

[Nightingales]

Ice Beam, and high enough defenses?